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[Silfren]

brushyourteeth wrote...

Silfren wrote...

Nightdragon8 wrote...


I got a question I'm guessing you had infomation stating in writing that "DA is sposed to be a world without sexism" because if its not in writing your just blowing smoke..

No, I'm not blowing smoke; It is something I personally know to be a fact, however, because I first came across it directly from a Bioware Dev's mention. There were several references to this waaaay back when I first started playing Origins, from official sources, and the point was commented upon before in various places.  No, I can't provide chapter and verse proof of this, as it's been years, so yes, I'm aware of the whole "quotes pics or it didn't happen," thing.  And that's all the time I'm going to spend on this.

Actually, I'm almost positive that it says this in the Origins CC when you first choose your character's gender.

Hope that helps everyone.

Does it? It was actually one of the details that got me playing Origins in the first place, when gamer friends were recommending it, but I don't recall reading it from the cc.  It's nice to know I can point to it as a reference, though.

[ejoslin]

Silfren wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

Silfren wrote...

Nightdragon8 wrote...


I got a question I'm guessing you had infomation stating in writing that "DA is sposed to be a world without sexism" because if its not in writing your just blowing smoke..

No, I'm not blowing smoke; It is something I personally know to be a fact, however, because I first came across it directly from a Bioware Dev's mention. There were several references to this waaaay back when I first started playing Origins, from official sources, and the point was commented upon before in various places.  No, I can't provide chapter and verse proof of this, as it's been years, so yes, I'm aware of the whole "quotes pics or it didn't happen," thing.  And that's all the time I'm going to spend on this.

Actually, I'm almost positive that it says this in the Origins CC when you first choose your character's gender.

Hope that helps everyone.

Does it? It was actually one of the details that got me playing Origins in the first place, when gamer friends were recommending it, but I don't recall reading it from the cc.  It's nice to know I can point to it as a reference, though.

I had to look it up, and it indeed says that.  Exact words are, "Men and women are generally regarded as equals.  Both genders are equally represented in most organizations, noble houses, and military forces."

Interesting.

Oh, and FTR, I think Q must be a troll or has an absolutely terrible grasp of the English language along with some truly bizzare beliefs.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

I really want to know what magical land Qistina is from.

Weretigers, ancient sex vampires, mystical water/orb communication, and all that other nonsense sounds pretty sweet.

I must know!

[The_FenixV]

Wooahh I leave to get some sleep and what's this? Talk of vampires and sex making people die early? What the hell did I miss? Or did I drink something and it all became a figment of my imagination or something?

Anyway. I hope some parts of the romance won't be like in DA2 (The discussions with Anders if you ended up picking diplomatic answer in which there is two replies with the heart and the last reply is a broken heart) that ticked me off, it was annoying to be forced in a situation like that.

[The_FenixV]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

I really want to know what magical land Qistina is from.

Weretigers, ancient sex vampires, mystical water/orb communication, and all that other nonsense sounds pretty sweet.

I must know!

Perhaps Qistina is the modern version of an Oghren...

[garrusfan1]

in origins when your picking your gender it says women and men (or male and female) are generally considered equal in most noble houses militarys and something else in thedas in other words they are not kept down like in the middle ages one of the top warriors in fereldan (ser catherine) was a women there are several leaders who are women and hold power and when they marry they keep their power still

[garrusfan1]

it seems this is just a sex and vampire thread now

[Big Magnet]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

I really want to know what magical land Qistina is from.

Weretigers, ancient sex vampires, mystical water/orb communication, and all that other nonsense sounds pretty sweet.

I must know!

The main plot for the next Bioware RPG is slowly being formed

[brushyourteeth]

garrusfan1 wrote...

it seems this is just a sex and vampire thread now

I just LOL'd so hard.

[mousestalker]

I would totes play a psychic weretiger if it were available in DA3. Especially if it were were-romanceable.

[Darth Death]

Faust1979 wrote...

The way the relationships are done in DAII is actually a move in the right direction

The rival & friendship system I suppose, but everything else other than that I wouldn't consider to be in the right direction. 

[Harle Cerulean]

garrusfan1 wrote...

in origins when your picking your gender it says women and men (or male and female) are generally considered equal in most noble houses militarys and something else in thedas in other words they are not kept down like in the middle ages one of the top warriors in fereldan (ser catherine) was a women there are several leaders who are women and hold power and when they marry they keep their power still

 

First, it's Ser Cauthrien, not Catherine.

Second, yes, it says that in the character creator, but the game then goes on to show us a completely different story.  Let's just start with the Human Noble origin as an example, shall we?  Howe comments about a female Cousland "still pretending to be a man," indicating that her status as a fighter is considered masculine.  Fergus' wife tells you it would be unthinkable for a woman to be a warrior in Antiva.

At Ostagar, there are females scattered here and there, but the large majority of soldiers are male.  

In Redcliffe, almost every man is drafted for the militia; you can even make the fat, useless barkeep fight.  Whereas there is not a single woman who picks up a weapon to defend the town, and the Warden can't even ask them to.  It's just... unthinkable, I guess, that the women should fight to defend themselves!

Etc.  Yes, Cauthrien exists, but a few women here and there is not equal and it's pretty clear that women don't get a lot of representation.  There's one female Bann at the Landsmeet, for example.  There's a clear gap between what we're told and what we're shown.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Faust1979 wrote...

I guess this could go for any Bioware game's but do you wish there was something more meaningful in the way relationships happen in Bioware games? it seems like the sex scene is usually the reward I'm not going to pretend to be a great writer or know how writing a video game works but they could do more to try and infuse a little more realism into relationships if they continue to pursue this. Reveal deeper truths about the characters and not just these small problems that lead to sex or a small quest. Lots of stories try and weave real world issues into their stories and Bioware could do something like this to make a deeper roleplaying game. I would like to see games move away from the typical simple story lines of shooting everything or hacking away at everything. Video games can be a great story telling medium The new Dragon Age game could be a way of moving forward in how to present stories in a game.  The way the relationships are done in DAII is actually a move in the right direction

DA:O relationships didn't 'end' with sex, even if you got achievements every time you bedded someone. For Morrigan and Zevran in particular, sex is more like the start of the relationship than the culmination.

Don't we have enough threads about sex, love and relationships in these games though? I love the bonds that can be forged in these games, but there's far too much emphasis on how romances should be done. Considering the most interesting romance in DA2 was, to me, that of Aveline and Donnic, I'm far more interested in helping out my friend!companions than getting them in the sack. At least they have a chance for happy endings with other NPCs.

[CuriousArtemis]

Harle Cerulean wrote...

Second, yes, it says that in the character creator, but the game then goes on to show us a completely different story.  Let's just start with the Human Noble origin as an example, shall we?  Howe comments about a female Cousland "still pretending to be a man," indicating that her status as a fighter is considered masculine.  Fergus' wife tells you it would be unthinkable[/i] for a woman to be a warrior in Antiva. 

At Ostagar, there are females scattered here and there, but the large majority of soldiers are male.  

In Redcliffe, almost every man is drafted for the militia; you can even make the fat, useless barkeep fight.  Whereas there is not a single woman who picks up a weapon to defend the town, and the Warden can't even ask them to.  It's just... unthinkable, I guess, that the women should fight to defend themselves!

Etc.  Yes, Cauthrien exists, but a few women here and there is not equal and it's pretty clear that women don't get a lot of representation.  There's one female Bann at the Landsmeet, for example.  There's a clear gap between what we're told and what we're shown.

Great points, thanks for bringing these up. 

Also keep in mind that lineages are still patrilineal. Children take the father's last name, and wives take husbands' names.

Also, I think the HN Warden can marry Alistair and become queen. But the HN male Warden can marry Anora and become prince consort. That's because in Thedas, "king" is still a higher level than "queen."

[The_FenixV]

motomotogirl wrote...

Harle Cerulean wrote...

Second, yes, it says that in the character creator, but the game then goes on to show us a completely different story.  Let's just start with the Human Noble origin as an example, shall we?  Howe comments about a female Cousland "still pretending to be a man," indicating that her status as a fighter is considered masculine.  Fergus' wife tells you it would be unthinkable[/i] for a woman to be a warrior in Antiva. 

At Ostagar, there are females scattered here and there, but the large majority of soldiers are male.  

In Redcliffe, almost every man is drafted for the militia; you can even make the fat, useless barkeep fight.  Whereas there is not a single woman who picks up a weapon to defend the town, and the Warden can't even ask them to.  It's just... unthinkable, I guess, that the women should fight to defend themselves!

Etc.  Yes, Cauthrien exists, but a few women here and there is not equal and it's pretty clear that women don't get a lot of representation.  There's one female Bann at the Landsmeet, for example.  There's a clear gap between what we're told and what we're shown.

Great points, thanks for bringing these up. 

Also keep in mind that lineages are still patrilineal. Children take the father's last name, and wives take husbands' names.

Also, I think the HN Warden can marry Alistair and become queen. But the HN male Warden can marry Anora and become prince consort. That's because in Thedas, "king" is still a higher level than "queen."

Except in DA2 he is referred to as king, so I guess it's most likely just bioware contradicting itself or still not sure about. I could of sworn that even the female one ends up being mentioned as princess consort or so. 

[CuriousArtemis]

The_FenixV wrote...

Except in DA2 he is referred to as king, so I guess it's most likely just bioware contradicting itself or still not sure about.

If so that would be one retcon I'm totally fine with 

[ejoslin]

In the original DAO slides, you had the price- or princess-consort of Ferelden. It was Awakening that referred to Alistair and his queen. But there's no reason to think that the HN was queen-regnant or anything. There's no difference between a queen-consort and a princess-consort in this situation; whether you call her queen or princess, she's still the consort.

Modifié par ejoslin, 29 mai 2013 - 01:46 .

[CuriousArtemis]

ejoslin wrote...

In the original DAO slides, you had the price- or princess-consort of Ferelden. It was Awakening that referred to Alistair and his queen. But there's no reason to think that the HN was queen-regnant or anything. There's no difference between a queen-consort and a princess-consort in this situation; whether you call her queen or princess, she's still the consort.

Well I'm just thinking about say British royalty, where a king be head of church and state, and so can a queen... IF there is no king, because a king is the male head of state and thus higher ranked than the female head of state. Since I mistakenly thought DA:O made the male HN a prince-consort and not a king (while the HN female gets to be queen, as in, it's okay for her to be queen, this does not challenge Alistair's rule), I was thinking it was an obvious sign of sexism. 

Modifié par motomotogirl, 29 mai 2013 - 03:30 .

[Silfren]

ejoslin wrote...

In the original DAO slides, you had the price- or princess-consort of Ferelden. It was Awakening that referred to Alistair and his queen. But there's no reason to think that the HN was queen-regnant or anything. There's no difference between a queen-consort and a princess-consort in this situation; whether you call her queen or princess, she's still the consort.

Alistair refers to the HN Warden as a queen in the main campaign, though.  I've always figured that it was a case of the writers having it as one thing originally, then meaning to change it, and letting some things slip.  Because there's a scene where the male Cousland can mention becoming King and Anora corrects him to say "Prince-consort, actually," but in scenes where Alistair addresses the issue, he only ever says queen, not princess-consort.  It's why seeing "princess-consort" in the epilogue slide was so jarring the first time I got those endings. 

I do note, though, that when you compare the two words, "princess-consort," versus "prince-consort," the feminine form doesn't carry the same connotative sense of power and authority.  It reminds me of Elizabeth I referring to herself as a prince. 

[Silfren]

motomotogirl wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

In the original DAO slides, you had the price- or princess-consort of Ferelden. It was Awakening that referred to Alistair and his queen. But there's no reason to think that the HN was queen-regnant or anything. There's no difference between a queen-consort and a princess-consort in this situation; whether you call her queen or princess, she's still the consort.

Well I'm just thinking about say British royalty, where a king be head of church and state, and so can a queen... IF there is no king, because a king is the male head of state and thus higher ranked than the female head of state. Since I mistakenly thought DA:O made the male HN a prince-consort and not a king (while the HN female gets to be queen, as in, it's okay for her to be queen, this does not challenge Alistair's rule), I was thinking it was an obvious sign of sexism. 

In this case I don't think it's a sign of anything more than inconsistent writing.

[Nightdragon8]

ejoslin wrote...

Silfren wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

Silfren wrote...

Nightdragon8 wrote...


I got a question I'm guessing you had infomation stating in writing that "DA is sposed to be a world without sexism" because if its not in writing your just blowing smoke..

No, I'm not blowing smoke; It is something I personally know to be a fact, however, because I first came across it directly from a Bioware Dev's mention. There were several references to this waaaay back when I first started playing Origins, from official sources, and the point was commented upon before in various places.  No, I can't provide chapter and verse proof of this, as it's been years, so yes, I'm aware of the whole "quotes pics or it didn't happen," thing.  And that's all the time I'm going to spend on this.

Actually, I'm almost positive that it says this in the Origins CC when you first choose your character's gender.

Hope that helps everyone.

Does it? It was actually one of the details that got me playing Origins in the first place, when gamer friends were recommending it, but I don't recall reading it from the cc.  It's nice to know I can point to it as a reference, though.

I had to look it up, and it indeed says that.  Exact words are, "Men and women are generally regarded as equals.  Both genders are equally represented in most organizations, noble houses, and military forces."

Interesting.

Oh, and FTR, I think Q must be a troll or has an absolutely terrible grasp of the English language along with some truly bizzare beliefs.

ahh ok, to be honest didn't see, it, and really there where too many codex entries i didn't bother even trying to read it.

funny enough tho that could be an excuse for them not to reconize what your chracters gender is and have less work to do....

but anyway I think this has gone compltely off topic....

[Ninja Stan]

Some off-topic and spam posts removed.

Let's keep this on-topic and civil, please. We can disagree with each other without resorting to childishness or derailing the whole thread. Thank you.

[ejoslin]

motomotogirl wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

In the original DAO slides, you had the price- or princess-consort of Ferelden. It was Awakening that referred to Alistair and his queen. But there's no reason to think that the HN was queen-regnant or anything. There's no difference between a queen-consort and a princess-consort in this situation; whether you call her queen or princess, she's still the consort.

Well I'm just thinking about say British royalty, where a king be head of church and state, and so can a queen... IF there is no king, because a king is the male head of state and thus higher ranked than the female head of state. Since I mistakenly thought DA:O made the male HN a prince-consort and not a king (while the HN female gets to be queen, as in, it's okay for her to be queen, this does not challenge Alistair's rule), I was thinking it was an obvious sign of sexism. 

When Cailin was alive, Queen Anora was his consort.  All authority and power she had was granted by him and could be taken away by him, theoretically.  After Cailin's death, Logain keeping her on the throne using military strength caused a civil war, in fact.  If the warden decides to put her on the throne, she still has to be coronated because she was not regnant before.

It's not that a woman cannot be regnant -- it's just that Anora was not for most of the game (or any of it depending on the warden's choice).

And neither human noble gets coronated -- the only ones who appear in that cut scene are Alistair, Anora, or both.

Edit: cleared up the wording a little.

One more edit: Maric was his mother's heir, IIRC.  She died while fighting trying to regain her throne, but she was definitely considered the ruler by her followers. 

Modifié par ejoslin, 29 mai 2013 - 11:23 .

[erilben]

motomotogirl wrote...

Also keep in mind that lineages are still patrilineal. Children take the father's last name, and wives take husbands' names.

Why do you think that? Bryce tells his daughter that he trusts she will carry on the Cousland name.

In the city elf origin, the husband of the female PC was to join her family.

Sebastian says the Viscount made Hawke the Amell heir and he so questions why Hawke doesn't take the Amell name.

Sophia Dryden had a brother and son with the Dryden last name, who both end up fleeing Ferelden and changing their last name. It was a female descendant that changed her name back to Dryden.

Revka (the human mage's mother) seems to be born as an Amell because everyone uses her to show that the Amells have magic in their line.

Modifié par erilben, 29 mai 2013 - 11:17 .

[ejoslin]

Silfren wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

In the original DAO slides, you had the price- or princess-consort of Ferelden. It was Awakening that referred to Alistair and his queen. But there's no reason to think that the HN was queen-regnant or anything. There's no difference between a queen-consort and a princess-consort in this situation; whether you call her queen or princess, she's still the consort.

Alistair refers to the HN Warden as a queen in the main campaign, though.  I've always figured that it was a case of the writers having it as one thing originally, then meaning to change it, and letting some things slip.  Because there's a scene where the male Cousland can mention becoming King and Anora corrects him to say "Prince-consort, actually," but in scenes where Alistair addresses the issue, he only ever says queen, not princess-consort.  It's why seeing "princess-consort" in the epilogue slide was so jarring the first time I got those endings. 

I do note, though, that when you compare the two words, "princess-consort," versus "prince-consort," the feminine form doesn't carry the same connotative sense of power and authority.  It reminds me of Elizabeth I referring to herself as a prince. 

I think the difference is between Alistair's and Anora's personalities and what they would expect from their consort.  Cailin, for instance, wanted his consort Anora to co-rule with him, so he allowed her that.  Alistair would want the same.  Anora, however, would not want that, and in fact, in the epilogue if the HN marries her, there in fact are power struggles there.  It makes sense, as you are dealing with two very strong personalities.