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[The_FenixV]

Silfren wrote...

The_FenixV wrote...

DatOneFanboy wrote...

did this niqqa just say Isabela romance was better then leliana. Kay

Well to me it was, it's obviously different for everyone. 

I've never romanced Leliana (aside from one ninjamance that I willingly killed by reloading to a prior save) and I personally think Isabela's romance beats hers hands down, merely because I like the character of Isabela so much more.  This isn't to say I found Leliana to be a poorly written character, but as characterization goes, between these two I found Isabela to be much more interesting, compelling, and realistic.

Indeed Leliana is a good character but I felt that it was her romance that was badly written, the moment I bedded her with my Warden the romance felt well finished, nothing else in there, the final dialogue when you pick your group for the last fight wasn't even emotional with her. With Morrigan though it was amazing, perhaps I'm just a sucker for independant women. 

[Boycott Bioware]

For me none of the romance in DA world are good...KotOR handle it better...romance in DA world is "you wanna have sex with me?"

Revan and Bastila or Revan and Carth is a very good romance...Revan is a Jedi to say about it, well you know, a Jedi, not allowed to love, and love lead you to darkside thing....but that is the issue, what is love?

Jolee Bindo have his own view about love...and it is beautiful...

Love is not about sex, don't lead to sex, love is sex is cheap Hollywood MK Ultra mind control technique...

Look at oldies movies, there's no sex, but love story is still beautiful...

[The_FenixV]

Qistina wrote...

For me none of the romance in DA world are good...KotOR handle it better...romance in DA world is "you wanna have sex with me?"

Revan and Bastila or Revan and Carth is a very good romance...Revan is a Jedi to say about it, well you know, a Jedi, not allowed to love, and love lead you to darkside thing....but that is the issue, what is love?

Jolee Bindo have his own view about love...and it is beautiful...

Love is not about sex, don't lead to sex, love is sex is cheap Hollywood MK Ultra mind control technique...

Look at oldies movies, there's no sex, but love story is still beautiful...

Also true, nothing can beat Revan teasing Bastila and the kiss they share, although...it fades to black. Hooray for mods I tell ya. 

[Silfren]

Qistina wrote...

For me none of the romance in DA world are good...KotOR handle it better...romance in DA world is "you wanna have sex with me?"

Revan and Bastila or Revan and Carth is a very good romance...Revan is a Jedi to say about it, well you know, a Jedi, not allowed to love, and love lead you to darkside thing....but that is the issue, what is love?

Jolee Bindo have his own view about love...and it is beautiful...

Love is not about sex, don't lead to sex, love is sex is cheap Hollywood MK Ultra mind control technique...

Look at oldies movies, there's no sex, but love story is still beautiful...

I would hardly say that romance in DA is all about having sex.  Both Alistair's and Leliana's romances shoot this down.  Hell, as I recall even Zevran isn't willing to just hop in the sack the first time you flirt with him, and he's arguably the most sexually laid back of all the companions in Origins.  (it's late and I don't remember much about his romance, honestly).  I think Morrigan is actually the easiest one to sleep with.

In DA2, Isabela is the only companion who is readily eager for sex without any relationship.  All the other companions require a relationship to be in place first.

Also, um, don't know where you're coming at this from, Qistina, but with the majority of the people I know, love does indeed lead to sex.  I actually do know a few asexual persons, and I know one couple who waited for marriage before having sex. But by far nearly everyone I know includes a healthy sex life as part of a loving relationship.

Those oldies movies were part of Hollywood, too, you know.  But no person should be getting their cues for romance from Hollywood anyway....

Modifié par Silfren, 28 mai 2013 - 07:25 .

[The_FenixV]

Silfren wrote...

I would hardly say that romance in DA is all about having sex.  Both Alistair's and Leliana's romances shoot this down.  Hell, as I recall even Zevran isn't willing to just hop in the sack the first time you flirt with him, and he's arguably the most sexually laid back of all the companions in Origins.  (it's late and I don't remember much about his romance, honestly).  I think Morrigan is actually the easiest one to sleep with.

In DA2, Isabela is the only companion who is readily eager for sex without any relationship.  All the other companions require a relationship to be in place first.

Hmm can't confirm for Zevran since I don't remember his romance but yeah Morrigan is the easiest one and yet their relationship was amazing to me. The way she tries to reassure herself telling that there is only lust and respect between the Warden and her and yet she falls for him, her jealous reactions were pretty amusing and the last scene for the battle was pretty powerful, the way she feels.. it was just amazing. I hope DA 3 will have some good romance for the protagonist and heck even the companions need some happiness in these dark times. 

[Silfren]

The_FenixV wrote...

Silfren wrote...

I would hardly say that romance in DA is all about having sex.  Both Alistair's and Leliana's romances shoot this down.  Hell, as I recall even Zevran isn't willing to just hop in the sack the first time you flirt with him, and he's arguably the most sexually laid back of all the companions in Origins.  (it's late and I don't remember much about his romance, honestly).  I think Morrigan is actually the easiest one to sleep with.

In DA2, Isabela is the only companion who is readily eager for sex without any relationship.  All the other companions require a relationship to be in place first.

Hmm can't confirm for Zevran since I don't remember his romance but yeah Morrigan is the easiest one and yet their relationship was amazing to me. The way she tries to reassure herself telling that there is only lust and respect between the Warden and her and yet she falls for him, her jealous reactions were pretty amusing and the last scene for the battle was pretty powerful, the way she feels.. it was just amazing. I hope DA 3 will have some good romance for the protagonist and heck even the companions need some happiness in these dark times. 

I've kind of dabbled in the other romances in Origins, but most of what I've seen comes from youtube vids, and it's been a long while.  I tend to only ever romance Alistair, aside from a few aborted playthroughs from early on.  I may start other romances, or swear to myself that I'll play a different character who totally romances someone, anyone, other than Alistair...and then I go back to him every time.  I just don't find Zevran or Leliana anywhere near as compelling, and I don't like Morrigan enough to make a playthrough for her.  I've had an easier time of it with DA2 romances, finding ALL the characters much more compelling, but I still tend to focus primarily on Anders. I've yet to complete any playthroughs with other LIs than him.  I've come pretty far along with Fenris's, though, and I've seen parts of Isabela's and Merrill's. 

In all, I have to say I found the DA2 characters to be much more...realized...than those of Origins.  I wish the romances themselves had been just as developed as the individual characters.

[Boycott Bioware]

Silfren wrote...
Also, um, don't know where you're coming at this from, Qistina, but with the majority of the people I know, love does indeed lead to sex. I actually do know a few asexual persons, and I know one couple who waited for marriage before having sex. But by far nearly everyone I know includes a healthy sex life as part of a loving relationship.

The place i came from love lead to marriage, not sex...my sister in love with his husband since school, then going to college, then getting job...now they are married and have 1 year old kid...my brother in love with his wife since college and now they are married for 3 years...i am still single

Yes i have desire for sex, i fantasize about it, i also fantasize being raped to some extent, but i have no desire to have sex even if i get in love with someone, it is about respect...i will wait until marriage unite us...it is common here...of course modernization and westernization change the society...

Like i mention before, different country and different culture maybe, but the way i see it love is not sex, when i love someone doesn't mean i want to have sex, i want to love i want to have the feeling of belonging, loyalty, responsibility, someone to talk to, someone to share with, someone to hear my babbling and don't mind with it, someone i can trust every time, every where, someone i know wont do harm to me, someone who look at me and don't think "sex, sex, sex, sex, sex,sex....."

[The_FenixV]

Well you didn't really have to write about those fantasies but it's an understandable feeling, everyone wants to be loved for who they are and be respected.

[Silfren]

Qistina wrote...

Silfren wrote...
Also, um, don't know where you're coming at this from, Qistina, but with the majority of the people I know, love does indeed lead to sex. I actually do know a few asexual persons, and I know one couple who waited for marriage before having sex. But by far nearly everyone I know includes a healthy sex life as part of a loving relationship.

The place i came from love lead to marriage, not sex...my sister in love with his husband since school, then going to college, then getting job...now they are married and have 1 year old kid...my brother in love with his wife since college and now they are married for 3 years...i am still single

Yes i have desire for sex, i fantasize about it, i also fantasize being raped to some extent, but i have no desire to have sex even if i get in love with someone, it is about respect...i will wait until marriage unite us...it is common here...of course modernization and westernization change the society...

Like i mention before, different country and different culture maybe, but the way i see it love is not sex, when i love someone doesn't mean i want to have sex, i want to love i want to have the feeling of belonging, loyalty, responsibility, someone to talk to, someone to share with, someone to hear my babbling and don't mind with it, someone i can trust every time, every where, someone i know wont do harm to me, someone who look at me and don't think "sex, sex, sex, sex, sex,sex....."

For the record, that was way more information about you than I wanted.  Thanks for that.

Going on, I really don't want to get off-topic onto this particular discussion as it is much, MUCH too controversial and will almost certainly get the thread locked.  It was my idiotic comment that started us down this discussion, so I apologize and take it back.  Now let's get back to the original discussion, PLEASE.

[Boycott Bioware]

There must be marriage option in DA3...my Warden can marry Alistair and don't have sex with him before that...why DA2 must be adulterous...living together having sex but no marriage?

[The_FenixV]

To be honest I'd considering keeping your love interest in your estate as sort of a marriage. You don't always need a marriage to prove to the other person that you love him/her.

Modifié par The_FenixV, 28 mai 2013 - 08:00 .

[Boycott Bioware]

Hawke is a noble woman, surely don't want to have secret sex affair in the middle of the Chantry city, right? It is like noble in Europe, secret sex affair is bad, especially in medieval Christendom, of course there are nobles having affairs in medieval Europe but it is not blatantly like Hawke did, they have husband or wife to shut everyone eyes, especially the priests

[Silfren]

Qistina wrote...

There must be marriage option in DA3...my Warden can marry Alistair and don't have sex with him before that...why DA2 must be adulterous...living together having sex but no marriage?

....It's not adultery.  For it to be adultery, you have to be cheating on a married spouse.  If you are living with and sex with a partner without marrying them...well, it could be called a lot of things, but it is not adultery unless you or your sex partner is married to someone else.

The reason for it within the game is probably just that there are no taboos in Thedas against having sex without marriage.  There is actually some lore on sexuality in the different regions of Thedas, but I don't know offhand what it says about marriage specifically. 

Moreover, I think that DA is largely targeted toward a predominantly Western audience with more relaxed ideas about sex, which would account for why there is less focus on particular sexual mores within the game.

[Silfren]

Qistina wrote...

Hawke is a noble woman, surely don't want to have secret sex affair in the middle of the Chantry city, right? It is like noble in Europe, secret sex affair is bad, especially in medieval Christendom, of course there are nobles having affairs in medieval Europe but it is not blatantly like Hawke did, they have husband or wife to shut everyone eyes, especially the priests

Not really.  The lore on Hawke and Anders seems to be that they openly flaunt their relationship (if they have one), so clearly Hawke does NOT care. But you have to remember that Thedas is NOT medieval Christendom.  It's fallacious to assume that the fictional world of Thedas has the same morals and values of ANY real world place or time.

Modifié par Silfren, 28 mai 2013 - 08:18 .

[DatOneFanboy]

Qistina wrote...

For me none of the romance in DA world are good...KotOR handle it better...romance in DA world is "you wanna have sex with me?"

Revan and Bastila or Revan and Carth is a very good romance...Revan is a Jedi to say about it, well you know, a Jedi, not allowed to love, and love lead you to darkside thing....but that is the issue, what is love?

Jolee Bindo have his own view about love...and it is beautiful...

Love is not about sex, don't lead to sex, love is sex is cheap Hollywood MK Ultra mind control technique...

Look at oldies movies, there's no sex, but love story is still beautiful...

Llmao Did u just involve Mk Ultra with dragon age Romance. im starting to like u more and more 

[The_FenixV]

Qistina wrote...

Hawke is a noble woman, surely don't want to have secret sex affair in the middle of the Chantry city, right? It is like noble in Europe, secret sex affair is bad, especially in medieval Christendom, of course there are nobles having affairs in medieval Europe but it is not blatantly like Hawke did, they have husband or wife to shut everyone eyes, especially the priests

This doesn't make sense, mostly because Hawke brings Merrill/Anders to his/her home, the citizens of Kirkwall will see that. They are not having a relationship behind the backs of others I am pretty sure their relationship is known in Kirkwall, specially since the blood mages will kidnap the LI if Bethany and Carver are both dead.

[Dagr88]

Compared to our medieval settings, Thedas priests are not so eager to burn people at the stake.
In Thedas is more of the 1. gossip vs 2. "model citizen". Hawke - a person who acquired wealth and status by creating a mountain of corpses, already has enough 1 and I doubt that s/he'll ever become 2. So having a lover... yep, that will ruin him/her.

Modifié par Dagr88, 28 mai 2013 - 08:29 .

[Boycott Bioware]

Silfren wrote...
Not really. The lore on Hawke and Anders seems to be that they openly flaunt their relationship (if they have one), so clearly Hawke does NOT care. But you have to remember that Thedas is NOT medieval Christendom. It's fallacious to assume that the fictional world of Thedas has the same morals and values of ANY real world place or time.

Professor Dumbledoor : "the thing about you and the mirror is of course secret...eventually, everyone know" - Harry Porter

Ah don't pretend it is not similar or nearly to medieval Christendom model of society. Theres nobles, knights, church, church military order, religious war...Thedas is sure not United States of America in the year 2000

So the moral compass of Thedas must be similar to medieval Europe, unless the writer is not accustomed or having lack of references on how medieval people live...and put in modern liberal thinking and life style instead...or maybe it is purposely made...

[The_FenixV]

Qistina wrote...

Silfren wrote...
Not really. The lore on Hawke and Anders seems to be that they openly flaunt their relationship (if they have one), so clearly Hawke does NOT care. But you have to remember that Thedas is NOT medieval Christendom. It's fallacious to assume that the fictional world of Thedas has the same morals and values of ANY real world place or time.

Professor Dumbledoor : "the thing about you and the mirror is of course secret...eventually, everyone know" - Harry Porter

Ah don't pretend it is not similar or nearly to medieval Christendom model of society. Theres nobles, knights, church, church military order, religious war...Thedas is sure not United States of America in the year 2000

So the moral compass of Thedas must be similar to medieval Europe, unless the writer is not accustomed or having lack of references on how medieval people live...and put in modern liberal thinking and life style instead...or maybe it is purposely made...

...You are being serious? The priests in Medieval Christendom were all men, the 'priests' in thedas are only women except for Haven who pretty much ends up destroyed in my playthroughs.  Girls couldn't be warriors, only exception to this was Joan of Arc who was pretty much badass I admit, but sort of on the crazy side as well with reason. 

If Thedas was completely a hundred percent based on medieval europe, there would be a lot of rape involved, Women wouldn't have an important role either, so don't base Thedas on history or even write 'nearly' And now please lets stop this and just get back to topic instead of getting a thread locked for nothing.

[Silfren]

Qistina wrote...

Silfren wrote...
Not really. The lore on Hawke and Anders seems to be that they openly flaunt their relationship (if they have one), so clearly Hawke does NOT care. But you have to remember that Thedas is NOT medieval Christendom. It's fallacious to assume that the fictional world of Thedas has the same morals and values of ANY real world place or time.

Professor Dumbledoor : "the thing about you and the mirror is of course secret...eventually, everyone know" - Harry Porter

Ah don't pretend it is not similar or nearly to medieval Christendom model of society. Theres nobles, knights, church, church military order, religious war...Thedas is sure not United States of America in the year 2000

So the moral compass of Thedas must be similar to medieval Europe, unless the writer is not accustomed or having lack of references on how medieval people live...and put in modern liberal thinking and life style instead...or maybe it is purposely made...

......You really suck at making cohesive arguments, you know that?

Your line about Dumbledore and Harry Potter just makes no sense whatsoever. 

Perhaps you should re-read what I wrote, and pay attention to the fact I referred specifically to morality and social mores.  You are grossly mistaken if you think that because Thedas bears a certain resemblance to real world states that it MUST mean that the "moral compass"  mirrors that of any real world nation identically so.  In point of fact, the lore we have on Thedas already disproves your assertion that it does.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

I'm really starting to wonder about the magical weretiger producing, magic water communicating, ancient alien hosting, crazy happy fun time forever nation Qistina comes from.

I kind of want to bottle it.

I'd make Billions!

[Silfren]

The_FenixV wrote...

Qistina wrote...

Silfren wrote...
Not really. The lore on Hawke and Anders seems to be that they openly flaunt their relationship (if they have one), so clearly Hawke does NOT care. But you have to remember that Thedas is NOT medieval Christendom. It's fallacious to assume that the fictional world of Thedas has the same morals and values of ANY real world place or time.

Professor Dumbledoor : "the thing about you and the mirror is of course secret...eventually, everyone know" - Harry Porter

Ah don't pretend it is not similar or nearly to medieval Christendom model of society. Theres nobles, knights, church, church military order, religious war...Thedas is sure not United States of America in the year 2000

So the moral compass of Thedas must be similar to medieval Europe, unless the writer is not accustomed or having lack of references on how medieval people live...and put in modern liberal thinking and life style instead...or maybe it is purposely made...

...You are being serious? The priests in Medieval Christendom were all men, the 'priests' in thedas are only women except for Haven who pretty much ends up destroyed in my playthroughs.  Girls couldn't be warriors, only exception to this was Joan of Arc who was pretty much badass I admit, but sort of on the crazy side as well with reason. 

If Thedas was completely a hundred percent based on medieval europe, there would be a lot of rape involved, Women wouldn't have an important role either, so don't base Thedas on history or even write 'nearly' And now please lets stop this and just get back to topic instead of getting a thread locked for nothing.

Yes, let's.  Sooo, about all that sex and love in Dragon Age....

You might've written this before, but anyway, what would you prefer DA3 romances to be like?

[The_FenixV]

Silfren wrote...

Yes, let's.  Sooo, about all that sex and love in Dragon Age....

You might've written this before, but anyway, what would you prefer DA3 romances to be like?

Hard to say..it will be different for everyone no doubt,  for me, well the companion needs to be independant and have a hidden emotional side or something. 

[Boycott Bioware]

...You are being serious? The priests in Medieval Christendom were all men, the 'priests' in thedas are only women except for Haven who pretty much ends up destroyed in my playthroughs. Girls couldn't be warriors, only exception to this was Joan of Arc who was pretty much badass I admit, but sort of on the crazy side as well with reason.

If Thedas was completely a hundred percent based on medieval europe, there would be a lot of rape involved, Women wouldn't have an important role either, so don't base Thedas on history or even write 'nearly' And now please lets stop this and just get back to topic instead of getting a thread locked for nothing.

In DA:O we get a remark of being an exceptional woman because being a warrior..."But you are not an ordinary woman, you can best all the men in battle or outside" Ser Gilmore say

Cousland mom also mention about finding you a husband and playing with sword will not find you a husband. Cousland mom retire being a warrior and having a normal noble wife

Leliana story about Aveline says that women being accepted as a warrior is by a decree from Orlesian king who sympathy. The Orlais girl in Denerim tell that in orlais women got raped everyday, that is why she going to Ferelden

See...DA:O remain true to medieval-ish nature....but DA2 is not

Edit : Howe said to papa Cousland : "It is because you trained her as a warrior...that is....unique...."

Modifié par Qistina, 28 mai 2013 - 08:49 .

[Silfren]

Qistina wrote...

...You are being serious? The priests in Medieval Christendom were all men, the 'priests' in thedas are only women except for Haven who pretty much ends up destroyed in my playthroughs. Girls couldn't be warriors, only exception to this was Joan of Arc who was pretty much badass I admit, but sort of on the crazy side as well with reason.

If Thedas was completely a hundred percent based on medieval europe, there would be a lot of rape involved, Women wouldn't have an important role either, so don't base Thedas on history or even write 'nearly' And now please lets stop this and just get back to topic instead of getting a thread locked for nothing.

In DA:O we get a remark of being an exceptional woman because being a warrior..."But you are not an ordinary woman, you can best all the men in battle or outside" Ser Gilmore say

Cousland mom also mention about finding you a husband and playing with sword will not find you a husband. Cousland mom retire being a warrior and having a normal noble wife

Leliana story about Aveline says that women being accepted as a warrior is by a decree from Orlesian king who sympathy. The Orlais girl in Denerim tell that in orlais women got raped everyday, that is why she going to Ferelden

See...DA:O remain true to medieval-ish nature....but DA2 is not

I could go on and on and on about all the ways in which Origins failed to properly portray a truly non-sexist world where misogyny did not exist and women were never considered to be less able than men at anything--the examples you name and so many, many more all point to the Devs not giving much consideration to what a sexism-free world would look like.  

But the fact remains that that is the kind of world we were told Thedas was, and the game does attempt to make this case, however badly it fails. 

Origins is NOT the medieval world, you need to let go of that fixation.