If the War Doctor is now considered one of the regenerated Doctors, then Peter Capaldi is the last Doctor. How will the BBC get round that in the future?
Saying that I liked the look that Capaldi gave. I think he is going to bring a lot to the role. Bring on the Christmas Special!
I also liked that the Beeb showed the Sherlock trailer straight after the Day of the Doctor.
BBC's Doctor Who - Whovians unite!
Débuté par
The Heretic of Time
, mai 26 2013 10:59
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#477
Posté 24 novembre 2013 - 11:58
EarthboundNess
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AlanC9 wrote...
When did you folks join up with the show, anyway?
Right at the start of the Eccleston reboot, recomended by my parents, who were familiar with the older stuff.
One of few examples of good taste they've ever had.
#478
Posté 24 novembre 2013 - 12:27
Get Magna Carter
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Steven Moffat said that when Capaldi leaves, the show will endNewschmoo wrote...
If the War Doctor is now considered one of the regenerated Doctors, then Peter Capaldi is the last Doctor. How will the BBC get round that in the future?
Saying that I liked the look that Capaldi gave. I think he is going to bring a lot to the role. Bring on the Christmas Special!
I also liked that the Beeb showed the Sherlock trailer straight after the Day of the Doctor.
He then said he could be lying
#479
Posté 24 novembre 2013 - 01:57
LPPrince
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I just realized something.
Clara constantly mentioned The Doctor's eyes, as something she could see right through.
Don't forget we saw Thirteen's eyes. Oh man.
Clara constantly mentioned The Doctor's eyes, as something she could see right through.
Don't forget we saw Thirteen's eyes. Oh man.
#480
Posté 24 novembre 2013 - 03:12
OdanUrr
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SPOILERS EVERYWHERE! READ AT YOUR OWN RISK!
So, what can I say about the 50th Anniversary Special that won't get me lapidated by a swarm of angry fans? Let me preface this by saying that, overall, I enjoyed the episode a lot. I think John Hurt did a wonderful job playing the Doctor and I think he had great chemistry with Tennant's and Smith's Doctors. I loved that we got to see more of the Time War, what little there was of it, and exactly how it was that the Doctor put an end to it.
This episode made me realize the scope of the tragedy haunting Eccleston's Ninth Doctor and it makes his journey in Series 1 all the more fulfilling. Indeed, I was taken aback by the parallels between the Series 1 finale and Hurt's predicament. In both scenarios he has the power to put an end to a war by completely obliterating two civilizations and yet the Ninth chose not to go down that path again when he refused to destroy the Daleks at the expense of planet Earth. In that moment Eccleston's transformation was complete and he became the Doctor once again. Like I said, the 50th Anniversary Special puts Series 1 into perspective and I love it for that.
I also thoroughly enjoyed the appearance of all thirteen Doctors (yes, I caught Capaldi's Doctor right away and cheered like a madman!) even if it was a bit of a DEM, despite having been foreshadowed during the prison scene. Moffat used the screwdriver's centuries-long calculation to introduce us to the idea that maybe, just maybe, the Doctor had been working on a way to save Gallifrey for hundreds of years, starting with the Ninth Doctor and ending with the Eleventh. I'm still not sure about the year count though. See, the Eleventh was 909 during the Lake Utah events but around 1200 when he "died." In the 50th he says he's around 1200 and that he's had 400 years to dwell on his role in the Time War. If he'd had 400 years to muse and he's around 1200, then he would've started this line of thought around the 800-years mark, when he was the Fifth Doctor and thus before the Time War. I don't know, it's all very confusing. In all probability the Eleventh is a bit senile and is actually around 1300 years old during the events of the 50th Anniversary.
Now on to the stuff I didn't particularly like (flame shield to me!). I was really looking forward to a more Time-War-centric episode, to be honest. The Elizabeth/UNIT storyline seemed to me rather weak and pointless beyond being a way to illustrate Hurt's situation. It took far more time and prominence than I would've given it and its resolution was a bit dodgy, if not downright lazy. I know a lot of fans were interested in knowing more about the Tenth's relationship with Elizabeth I but, while I sincerely hope this episode delivered for them, I believe it didn't add much to the episode beyond contributing to show Tennant's Doctor as a much dumber character than I recall (more on that later). The Tenth's marriage to Elizabeth was a haphazard affair that I suppose was intended to be funny but actually wasn't, not to me at least.
This leads me to another issue I had with this episode and that is Moffat's portrayal of the Tenth Doctor. Basically, it's very different from RTD's portrayal of the Tenth Doctor. Like I said before, the Tenth comes across as goofier and more inept that I recall. Indeed, he seems to have some of the Eleventh in him what, while it suits Smith's character perfectly seeing as he's the Eleventh, doesn't suit Tennant's character. Something else I picked up on, and I don't think it's a stretch, is how Moffat apparently mocks the dramatic tone of Tennant's portrayal of the Doctor during the RTD era. Sure, I had a chuckle when he gives his "I'm a Time Lord" speech to the rabbit but I couldn't shake the feeling that Moffat was taking a shot at RTD through the Tenth. This also becomes apparent when, about to leave in the TARDIS, Tennant's character says, "I don't want to go" and Smith's Doctor dismisses it as something he always says. In Smith's defense, he delivered the line with a fond smile what lessened the punch somewhat (but didn't make it go away).
I was also disappointed in the manner Moffat decided to make use of Tennant and Piper. To my mind, it would have been best to use them as the Meta-Crisis Tenth Doctor and Rose Tyler but Moffat decided to go for the original Tenth and do away with Rose's character completely. Indeed, he also did away with her Bad Wolf character, leaving Piper to play the avatar of the Moment. In fact, Piper never interacts with Tennant or Smith what was what I had been looking forward to the most in this episode. Piper's character is isolated from everyone but Hurt and, while understandable, it was a complete and utter disappointment. Sure, Tennant drops his "Did you say Bad Wolf?" line but it goes nowhere. Moffat's message is loud and clear and it says, "I'm never going to bring back Rose Tyler again" and it is a shame because the strength of this show is the interaction between its characters and adding Rose or the Bad Wolf into the mix could only have served to make it better. Alas, let's move on.
We've come at last to the bit I really, really, didn't like. Moffat had been somewhat subtle throughout the episode but there's nothing subtle about this scene, it's as direct and straightforward a message as they come. I'm talking about the scene where all three Doctors gather together to use the Moment to put an end to the Time War. It's a very solemn moment (no pun intended) that, to my mind, should've probably been the way the episode ended (more on that later). Just when they're about to do it the Eleventh notices Clara eyeing him funny and she explains she had never pictured him, the Eleventh, actually pulling the trigger. We then cut to a projection of the many lives they're about to take while Clara delivers a speech on why they shouldn't activate the Moment.
No, just no, enough is enough. While I don't exactly understand why Moffat wants to take a swing at Tennant's character every chance he gets, he also contradicts himself. The episode went to great lengths to make it clear that Hurt was still the Doctor. In fact, he was the Doctor probably more than any of them. "You were the Doctor on the day that it was impossible to get it right," Tennant (or Smith, can't recall) says. And yet, Clara (aka Moffat) says Smith is the Messiah that will save us all. Like I said, I don't like it. I think it's highly unfair to both Tennant's and Smith's characters, not to mention Hurt's own. Besides which it was completely unnecessary. The Eleventh could've hesitated and then explained he had lied about forgetting the Time War when he had, in fact, continued to dwell on that fateful day and what he could've done differently without resorting to a nonsensical speech that belittles two characters in the process. Sorry but this was just wrong. Period.
This brings me to the ending. I must admit I feel conflicted about it. On the one hand, I'm glad Gallifrey still exists out there somewhere and that the Doctor will be going home some day soon. On the other, the Time War and the Doctor's role in it are key components of who he is and what he becomes. It is because of that fateful day that Hurt becomes the Ninth, full of anger and regret. Now we can finally understand the madness within, why he couldn't conceive of a universe with Daleks because that would've rendered his sacrifice useless. It's the Doctor coming to terms with his past that makes him such a compelling character. And yet this episode wants to convince us that this never happened, that the Doctor never destroyed Gallifrey but somehow remembers that he did. You can't have your cake and eat it too but that's exactly what this episode does and what I feel it ultimately shouldn't have.
Leaves in the wind:
- At the beginning of the episode, Kate Stewart apologizes to the Doctor for taking the TARDIS saying she hadn't realized he was in there. Where else was the Doctor supposed to be? Why didn't she bother to check? Did she even try calling him? It's a funny scene, to be sure, but a poorly written excuse to make an entrance.
- Why didn't the Doctor check under the curtains? This is the Eleventh we're talking about. He most definitely would have pulled the curtains off one of the "statues" just for fun. Not really a major issue but it was a bit OOC.
- So Clara has been to the Black Archive before according to Kate. IIRC this hasn't happened yet so maybe we'll see it in a future episode?
- The Moment describes the Tenth as the man who regrets and the Eleventh as the man who forgets. Where does that leave the Ninth?
- How did the Doctors get inside the “Gallifrey falls, no more” painting? Unless this technology has been shown before, the first time we see it is when Elizabeth I orders a Zygon to enter a painting. In this case, there’s a cube that acts as a sort of “gateway” into the painting and it was set next to the latter. I would assume then that this cube needs to be close to the painting in question? If proximity is necessary, then the Doctors shouldn’t have been able to stow themselves away into the painting.
- What happened to the Moment? Okay, they didn’t use it but where is it? Who has it? It didn’t simply vanish, did it?
- How come an old Tom Baker is able to meet the Eleventh? He never reached old age as the Doctor, did he?
So, what can I say about the 50th Anniversary Special that won't get me lapidated by a swarm of angry fans? Let me preface this by saying that, overall, I enjoyed the episode a lot. I think John Hurt did a wonderful job playing the Doctor and I think he had great chemistry with Tennant's and Smith's Doctors. I loved that we got to see more of the Time War, what little there was of it, and exactly how it was that the Doctor put an end to it.
This episode made me realize the scope of the tragedy haunting Eccleston's Ninth Doctor and it makes his journey in Series 1 all the more fulfilling. Indeed, I was taken aback by the parallels between the Series 1 finale and Hurt's predicament. In both scenarios he has the power to put an end to a war by completely obliterating two civilizations and yet the Ninth chose not to go down that path again when he refused to destroy the Daleks at the expense of planet Earth. In that moment Eccleston's transformation was complete and he became the Doctor once again. Like I said, the 50th Anniversary Special puts Series 1 into perspective and I love it for that.
I also thoroughly enjoyed the appearance of all thirteen Doctors (yes, I caught Capaldi's Doctor right away and cheered like a madman!) even if it was a bit of a DEM, despite having been foreshadowed during the prison scene. Moffat used the screwdriver's centuries-long calculation to introduce us to the idea that maybe, just maybe, the Doctor had been working on a way to save Gallifrey for hundreds of years, starting with the Ninth Doctor and ending with the Eleventh. I'm still not sure about the year count though. See, the Eleventh was 909 during the Lake Utah events but around 1200 when he "died." In the 50th he says he's around 1200 and that he's had 400 years to dwell on his role in the Time War. If he'd had 400 years to muse and he's around 1200, then he would've started this line of thought around the 800-years mark, when he was the Fifth Doctor and thus before the Time War. I don't know, it's all very confusing. In all probability the Eleventh is a bit senile and is actually around 1300 years old during the events of the 50th Anniversary.
Now on to the stuff I didn't particularly like (flame shield to me!). I was really looking forward to a more Time-War-centric episode, to be honest. The Elizabeth/UNIT storyline seemed to me rather weak and pointless beyond being a way to illustrate Hurt's situation. It took far more time and prominence than I would've given it and its resolution was a bit dodgy, if not downright lazy. I know a lot of fans were interested in knowing more about the Tenth's relationship with Elizabeth I but, while I sincerely hope this episode delivered for them, I believe it didn't add much to the episode beyond contributing to show Tennant's Doctor as a much dumber character than I recall (more on that later). The Tenth's marriage to Elizabeth was a haphazard affair that I suppose was intended to be funny but actually wasn't, not to me at least.
This leads me to another issue I had with this episode and that is Moffat's portrayal of the Tenth Doctor. Basically, it's very different from RTD's portrayal of the Tenth Doctor. Like I said before, the Tenth comes across as goofier and more inept that I recall. Indeed, he seems to have some of the Eleventh in him what, while it suits Smith's character perfectly seeing as he's the Eleventh, doesn't suit Tennant's character. Something else I picked up on, and I don't think it's a stretch, is how Moffat apparently mocks the dramatic tone of Tennant's portrayal of the Doctor during the RTD era. Sure, I had a chuckle when he gives his "I'm a Time Lord" speech to the rabbit but I couldn't shake the feeling that Moffat was taking a shot at RTD through the Tenth. This also becomes apparent when, about to leave in the TARDIS, Tennant's character says, "I don't want to go" and Smith's Doctor dismisses it as something he always says. In Smith's defense, he delivered the line with a fond smile what lessened the punch somewhat (but didn't make it go away).
I was also disappointed in the manner Moffat decided to make use of Tennant and Piper. To my mind, it would have been best to use them as the Meta-Crisis Tenth Doctor and Rose Tyler but Moffat decided to go for the original Tenth and do away with Rose's character completely. Indeed, he also did away with her Bad Wolf character, leaving Piper to play the avatar of the Moment. In fact, Piper never interacts with Tennant or Smith what was what I had been looking forward to the most in this episode. Piper's character is isolated from everyone but Hurt and, while understandable, it was a complete and utter disappointment. Sure, Tennant drops his "Did you say Bad Wolf?" line but it goes nowhere. Moffat's message is loud and clear and it says, "I'm never going to bring back Rose Tyler again" and it is a shame because the strength of this show is the interaction between its characters and adding Rose or the Bad Wolf into the mix could only have served to make it better. Alas, let's move on.
We've come at last to the bit I really, really, didn't like. Moffat had been somewhat subtle throughout the episode but there's nothing subtle about this scene, it's as direct and straightforward a message as they come. I'm talking about the scene where all three Doctors gather together to use the Moment to put an end to the Time War. It's a very solemn moment (no pun intended) that, to my mind, should've probably been the way the episode ended (more on that later). Just when they're about to do it the Eleventh notices Clara eyeing him funny and she explains she had never pictured him, the Eleventh, actually pulling the trigger. We then cut to a projection of the many lives they're about to take while Clara delivers a speech on why they shouldn't activate the Moment.
Already I get from her speech that the Tenth Doctor is an idiot. I didn't even have to look hard for this connection, Clara spells it out herself by labeling Hurt's Doctor as the warrior and Tennant's as the hero. To add further insult to injury, Clara practically states that Smith's character is the only one who can save Gallifrey because he's the (true) Doctor."We've got enough warriors. Any old idiot can be a hero."
No, just no, enough is enough. While I don't exactly understand why Moffat wants to take a swing at Tennant's character every chance he gets, he also contradicts himself. The episode went to great lengths to make it clear that Hurt was still the Doctor. In fact, he was the Doctor probably more than any of them. "You were the Doctor on the day that it was impossible to get it right," Tennant (or Smith, can't recall) says. And yet, Clara (aka Moffat) says Smith is the Messiah that will save us all. Like I said, I don't like it. I think it's highly unfair to both Tennant's and Smith's characters, not to mention Hurt's own. Besides which it was completely unnecessary. The Eleventh could've hesitated and then explained he had lied about forgetting the Time War when he had, in fact, continued to dwell on that fateful day and what he could've done differently without resorting to a nonsensical speech that belittles two characters in the process. Sorry but this was just wrong. Period.
This brings me to the ending. I must admit I feel conflicted about it. On the one hand, I'm glad Gallifrey still exists out there somewhere and that the Doctor will be going home some day soon. On the other, the Time War and the Doctor's role in it are key components of who he is and what he becomes. It is because of that fateful day that Hurt becomes the Ninth, full of anger and regret. Now we can finally understand the madness within, why he couldn't conceive of a universe with Daleks because that would've rendered his sacrifice useless. It's the Doctor coming to terms with his past that makes him such a compelling character. And yet this episode wants to convince us that this never happened, that the Doctor never destroyed Gallifrey but somehow remembers that he did. You can't have your cake and eat it too but that's exactly what this episode does and what I feel it ultimately shouldn't have.
Leaves in the wind:
- At the beginning of the episode, Kate Stewart apologizes to the Doctor for taking the TARDIS saying she hadn't realized he was in there. Where else was the Doctor supposed to be? Why didn't she bother to check? Did she even try calling him? It's a funny scene, to be sure, but a poorly written excuse to make an entrance.
- Why didn't the Doctor check under the curtains? This is the Eleventh we're talking about. He most definitely would have pulled the curtains off one of the "statues" just for fun. Not really a major issue but it was a bit OOC.
- So Clara has been to the Black Archive before according to Kate. IIRC this hasn't happened yet so maybe we'll see it in a future episode?
- The Moment describes the Tenth as the man who regrets and the Eleventh as the man who forgets. Where does that leave the Ninth?
- How did the Doctors get inside the “Gallifrey falls, no more” painting? Unless this technology has been shown before, the first time we see it is when Elizabeth I orders a Zygon to enter a painting. In this case, there’s a cube that acts as a sort of “gateway” into the painting and it was set next to the latter. I would assume then that this cube needs to be close to the painting in question? If proximity is necessary, then the Doctors shouldn’t have been able to stow themselves away into the painting.
- What happened to the Moment? Okay, they didn’t use it but where is it? Who has it? It didn’t simply vanish, did it?
- How come an old Tom Baker is able to meet the Eleventh? He never reached old age as the Doctor, did he?
Modifié par OdanUrr, 24 novembre 2013 - 03:43 .
#481
Posté 24 novembre 2013 - 04:55
AlanC9
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The Fourth Doctor didn't reach old age, no. He was observed to regenerate by his companions.
I don't think that actually is the Fourth Doctor. I think a future incarnation decided to retire as the Fourth Doctor. Control over your next form is possible unless we decanonize Destiny of the Daleks.
I don't think that actually is the Fourth Doctor. I think a future incarnation decided to retire as the Fourth Doctor. Control over your next form is possible unless we decanonize Destiny of the Daleks.
Modifié par AlanC9, 24 novembre 2013 - 04:55 .
#482
Posté 24 novembre 2013 - 05:01
EarthboundNess
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Definitely agree on this regarding Tennant. However, I fully expected for this to happen and to see some of Smith's mannerisms rub off on him, given who was at the helm, so I didn't really let it affect my enjoyment of the episode. And I'll agree that it does seem like Moffat was making jokes at RTD's expense.OdanUrr wrote...
SPOILERS EVERYWHERE! READ AT YOUR OWN RISK!
I was also disappointed in the manner Moffat decided to make use of Tennant and Piper.
Rose, I was actually glad of her particular portrayal. I saw no real reason to bring her character back properly, and had they of done so, I struggle to think of a scenario where it wouldn't have felt forced. As it is, Piper's involvement plays out as more of a homage, given that her charcter here barely resembles that of Rose. I think that that was actually the best way to do it.
I didn't particularly pick up on this during the episode itself, but now that you've fully spelled it out, it actually does seriously annoy me. I'll be watching it again tonight, and I'll see how I feel after another run through.We've come at last to the bit I really, really, didn't like. Moffat had been somewhat subtle throughout the episode but there's nothing subtle about this scene, it's as direct and straightforward a message as they come. I'm talking about the scene where all three Doctors gather together to use the Moment to put an end to the Time War. It's a very solemn moment (no pun intended) that, to my mind, should've probably been the way the episode ended (more on that later). Just when they're about to do it the Eleventh notices Clara eyeing him funny and she explains she had never pictured him, the Eleventh, actually pulling the trigger. We then cut to a projection of the many lives they're about to take while Clara delivers a speech on why they shouldn't activate the Moment.
Already I get from her speech that the Tenth Doctor is an idiot. I didn't even have to look hard for this connection, Clara spells it out herself by labeling Hurt's Doctor as the warrior and Tennant's as the hero. To add further insult to injury, Clara practically states that Smith's character is the only one who can save Gallifrey because he's the (true) Doctor.
No, just no, enough is enough. While I don't exactly understand why Moffat wants to take a swing at Tennant's character every chance he gets, he also contradicts himself. The episode went to great lengths to make it clear that Hurt was still the Doctor. In fact, he was the Doctor probably more than any of them. "You were the Doctor on the day that it was impossible to get it right," Tennant (or Smith, can't recall) says. And yet, Clara (aka Moffat) says Smith is the Messiah that will save us all. Like I said, I don't like it. I think it's highly unfair to both Tennant's and Smith's characters, not to mention Hurt's own. Besides which it was completely unnecessary. The Eleventh could've hesitated and then explained he had lied about forgetting the Time War when he had, in fact, continued to dwell on that fateful day and what he could've done differently without resorting to a nonsensical speech that belittles two characters in the process. Sorry but this was just wrong. Period.
I really hated them bringing back Gallifrey. As you've said, it completely sells out the Doctor's development at countless points following the war. Still, it all really depends on where they go with it from here, and I'll give them the benefit of the doubt for now until they actually show us where (if anywhere) they're going with this.This brings me to the ending. I must admit I feel conflicted about it. On the one hand, I'm glad Gallifrey still exists out there somewhere and that the Doctor will be going home some day soon. On the other, the Time War and the Doctor's role in it are key components of who he is and what he becomes. It is because of that fateful day that Hurt becomes the Ninth, full of anger and regret. Now we can finally understand the madness within, why he couldn't conceive of a universe with Daleks because that would've rendered his sacrifice useless. It's the Doctor coming to terms with his past that makes him such a compelling character. And yet this episode wants to convince us that this never happened, that the Doctor never destroyed Gallifrey but somehow remembers that he did. You can't have your cake and eat it too but that's exactly what this episode does and what I feel it ultimately shouldn't have.
Modifié par Earthbound N, 24 novembre 2013 - 05:02 .
#483
Posté 24 novembre 2013 - 05:04
EarthboundNess
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AlanC9 wrote...
The Fourth Doctor didn't reach old age, no. He was observed to regenerate by his companions.
I don't think that actually is the Fourth Doctor. I think a future incarnation decided to retire as the Fourth Doctor. Control over your next form is possible unless we decanonize Destiny of the Daleks.
You're probably right, it seems like the only way that could make sense.
#484
Posté 24 novembre 2013 - 05:05
Abraham_uk
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I'd love to tell you what I think about last night's episode, but SPOILERS!
Let's just say, I really enjoyed it!
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
Who is this really awesome character you ask?
Umm. Spoilers!
Want me to tell you about what I like about the twelve doctors?
Man that's so hard to do without revealing any "Spoilers"!
Let's just say, I really enjoyed it!
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
Who is this really awesome character you ask?
Umm. Spoilers!
Want me to tell you about what I like about the twelve doctors?
Man that's so hard to do without revealing any "Spoilers"!
Modifié par Abraham_uk, 24 novembre 2013 - 05:06 .
#485
Posté 24 novembre 2013 - 05:20
LPPrince
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I had no issues with the episode whatsoever barring the "anyone can be a hero" bit, which seemed like it was putting down Tennant.
Then again, Clara's Doctor is Smith, so it makes sense that she'd favor him over the others.
Then again, Clara's Doctor is Smith, so it makes sense that she'd favor him over the others.
#486
Posté 24 novembre 2013 - 05:24
Eternal Phoenix
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@OdanUrr
Tom Baker says that he's "revisiting old faces" which could mean anything in the future. The doctor in his final days, returning to his old forms.
For me, John Hurt and Tom Baker were the only good things about this episode. As always I find the character of Clara annoying. The UI of the galaxy destroyer (of whatever it's name was) played by Billy Pipper was annoying and (as you were saying) the salvation of Gallifrey was down to a deus ex machina.
If it weren't for John Hurt, this episode would have been as bad some regular episodes.
Personally I don't care much for the return of Gallifrey. I always suspected it would be returning ever since The Master shenanigans. Speaking of which, that means he could be returning.
Tom Baker says that he's "revisiting old faces" which could mean anything in the future. The doctor in his final days, returning to his old forms.
For me, John Hurt and Tom Baker were the only good things about this episode. As always I find the character of Clara annoying. The UI of the galaxy destroyer (of whatever it's name was) played by Billy Pipper was annoying and (as you were saying) the salvation of Gallifrey was down to a deus ex machina.
If it weren't for John Hurt, this episode would have been as bad some regular episodes.
Personally I don't care much for the return of Gallifrey. I always suspected it would be returning ever since The Master shenanigans. Speaking of which, that means he could be returning.
#487
Posté 24 novembre 2013 - 05:25
LPPrince
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The Master, Rassilon, The Doctor's past pre-Hartnell
So hype
But I'm more hype for Capaldi
That bloody glare
So hype
But I'm more hype for Capaldi
That bloody glare
#488
Posté 24 novembre 2013 - 05:29
In Exile
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Everyone seems to have loved this episode, so I suppose I'm quite a unique in saying that I found it very disappointing in terms of what it actually did to the Doctor as a character. I think the actual solution was very "Dr. Who-ish" but what I found engaging about the Time War was the idea that at some point, the Doctor had actually had to make an impossible choice.
#489
Posté 24 novembre 2013 - 06:33
AlanC9
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In Exile wrote...
Everyone seems to have loved this episode, so I suppose I'm quite a unique in saying that I found it very disappointing in terms of what it actually did to the Doctor as a character. I think the actual solution was very "Dr. Who-ish" but what I found engaging about the Time War was the idea that at some point, the Doctor had actually had to make an impossible choice.
Had a bit if this feeling myself, but I wasn't sure if it was just leftover feelings from those endless ME3 ending threads.
But the moral dilemma never made a heck of a lot of sense in the first place. If Gallifrey was about to fall anyway then the War Doctor didn't make things worse for anybody except Dakeks.
Modifié par AlanC9, 24 novembre 2013 - 06:38 .
#490
Posté 24 novembre 2013 - 07:35
In Exile
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AlanC9 wrote...
Had a bit if this feeling myself, but I wasn't sure if it was just leftover feelings from those endless ME3 ending threads.
But the moral dilemma never made a heck of a lot of sense in the first place. If Gallifrey was about to fall anyway then the War Doctor didn't make things worse for anybody except Dakeks.
My sense was always that (i) the Doctor was as much killing the Time Lords as he was the Daleks (the Paul McGann minisode - which you should see if you haven't because he's phenomenal in that - is a good indication of that which Day of the Doctor kind of seems to gloss over) and (ii) it was the scale of the killing - as well as the other Gallifreyans who weren't time lords - that really characterized the Moment was a huge war crime.
At the same time, I had the impression that the Doctor was quite busy committing other war crimes throughout the time war. Which, if he was, just makes this last minute change-of-heart even cheaper.
Anyway, I do agree with you. I don't think that the War Doctor was actually morally wrong to do what he did - rather I think it was that he was choosing to kill them himself for the greater good. Even if someone is going to die anyway, there's still a difference between letting them die and killing them yourself (in terms of your own psyche).
Thinking about it more generally, New Who makes a really big deal about how the Doctor can just be this merciless, violent force of nature. The middle of Series 6 - before it got ridiculous with the River Song plot - was all about the engine of carnage that the doctor is supposed to be. Same thing with Trenzalore. It's about a huge battle the doctor takes part in.
The whole clean hands approach to the end of the time war just makes it unbelievable that (a) the character would ever really develop this reputation (
that he'd live up to it and © that he'd fight an actual outright war. Edit:
Also, the idea that the Daleks would be stupid enough to kill each other in the cross-fire is too much to take. Even if the planet vanished in an instant and they didn't shoot all of the Tardises out of the sky (because they're really nice about it), you'd figure it would make more than 2-3 hits from one Dalek ship to exterminate another Dalek ship. Even if they were really beaten down - and even if that was their entire force - enough should still have survived.
Modifié par In Exile, 24 novembre 2013 - 07:38 .
#491
Posté 24 novembre 2013 - 08:30
Abraham_uk
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I felt that the Doctor's hands was never cleaned.
He still committed war crimes.
If anything I felt it that the writing team were brave to portray the beloved doctor as a flawed being who had committed monstrous atrocities. To see him regret them is also pretty interesting.
No I don't think the Doctor's hands can ever be cleaned of this. However Dr Who fans would have been incredibly angry about the Doctor not reversing this decision.
He still committed war crimes.
If anything I felt it that the writing team were brave to portray the beloved doctor as a flawed being who had committed monstrous atrocities. To see him regret them is also pretty interesting.
No I don't think the Doctor's hands can ever be cleaned of this. However Dr Who fans would have been incredibly angry about the Doctor not reversing this decision.
#492
Posté 24 novembre 2013 - 08:34
Abraham_uk
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A few things about The Doctor's Age.
The Doctor doesn't count the years like we do.
The Doctor doesn't celebrate his birthday.
The Doctor doesn't place any importance on it.
The Doctor's age is vague and well not all that important in the grand scheme of things. All you need to know that the doctor is very, very, very old.
The Doctor doesn't count the years like we do.
The Doctor doesn't celebrate his birthday.
The Doctor doesn't place any importance on it.
The Doctor's age is vague and well not all that important in the grand scheme of things. All you need to know that the doctor is very, very, very old.
#493
Posté 24 novembre 2013 - 08:36
Abraham_uk
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LPPrince wrote...
The Master, Rassilon, The Doctor's past pre-Hartnell
So hype
But I'm more hype for Capaldi
That bloody glare
Capaldi is scary. My goodness.
Daleks and Cybermen alike will be hiding behind their sofas when Capaldi's Doctor comes to town.
Quite frankly, I'm excited!
I've experienced 12 amazing doctors and I can't wait for Capaldi.
#494
Posté 24 novembre 2013 - 09:30
In Exile
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Abraham_uk wrote...
I felt that the Doctor's hands was never cleaned.
He still committed war crimes.
If anything I felt it that the writing team were brave to portray the beloved doctor as a flawed being who had committed monstrous atrocities. To see him regret them is also pretty interesting.
No I don't think the Doctor's hands can ever be cleaned of this. However Dr Who fans would have been incredibly angry about the Doctor not reversing this decision.
It seemed to me like Day of the Doctor tried very hard to wash all of the other war crimes away. Because if the Doctor had committed then, it's hard to see how suddenly not committing this particular genocide - limited to Gallifrey itself and the Daleks - is the irredeemable moral event horizon.
#495
Posté 24 novembre 2013 - 09:33
LPPrince
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13 has the eyes of a true madman in a box.
#496
Posté 24 novembre 2013 - 09:51
Abraham_uk
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In Exile wrote...
Abraham_uk wrote...
I felt that the Doctor's hands was never cleaned.
He still committed war crimes.
If anything I felt it that the writing team were brave to portray the beloved doctor as a flawed being who had committed monstrous atrocities. To see him regret them is also pretty interesting.
No I don't think the Doctor's hands can ever be cleaned of this. However Dr Who fans would have been incredibly angry about the Doctor not reversing this decision.
It seemed to me like Day of the Doctor tried very hard to wash all of the other war crimes away. Because if the Doctor had committed then, it's hard to see how suddenly not committing this particular genocide - limited to Gallifrey itself and the Daleks - is the irredeemable moral event horizon.
If they had comitted to "The Doctor killed billions of people" then that would be the end of the show.
Basically the writers had to turn this:sick: into this<3.
This episode went on a very risky path and in my mind managed to prevent the Doctor from making that wretched decision. I still view the Doctor as a monster, but an interesting monster. A complex monster. One whose travels I still want to follow.
It is also quite liberating. The Doctor doesn't have to be a squeaky clean hero. The Doctor can get it wrong. The Doctor has got it wrong many times during the series. I'm glad that his fallibility is being explored as opposed to being glossed over.
The Doctor is a time meddler which in and of itself is morally questionable.
Think about it this way. If I went back in time and altered a few events here and there, you'd never have been born. Heck I think I would have caused temporal suicide (some how preventing me from being born too).
The Doctor was always morally questionable from his William Hartnell days to his Matt Smith days.
#497
Posté 24 novembre 2013 - 09:54
Abraham_uk
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I'd love to see Tom Baker's "Do I have the right to exterminate the Daleks" Doctor get into a fist fight with John Hurt's "War Doctor".
I just love juxtaposing the "Genesis of The Daleks" with "Day of The Doctor".
I just love juxtaposing the "Genesis of The Daleks" with "Day of The Doctor".
#498
Posté 24 novembre 2013 - 11:32
OdanUrr
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I forgot to mention Tom Baker's appearance. I've never seen him as the Doctor and, while he came across as somewhat enigmatic, I very much like his exchange with Smith at the end of the episode. I look forward to meeting him again soon.
Let me know when you do. I'd like to think I wasn't the only one to pick up on this.
Earthbound N wrote...
I didn't particularly pick up on this during the episode itself, but now that you've fully spelled it out, it actually does seriously annoy me. I'll be watching it again tonight, and I'll see how I feel after another run through.
Let me know when you do. I'd like to think I wasn't the only one to pick up on this.
Modifié par OdanUrr, 24 novembre 2013 - 11:33 .
#499
Posté 25 novembre 2013 - 12:04
vortex216
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I'm a very new Whovian. I started last summer and caught em' on Netflix. It has been one of "my shows" ever since.
#500
Posté 25 novembre 2013 - 12:45
LPPrince
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