1051 réponses à ce sujet

[Abraham_uk]

The dynamics between the characters are off. Individually they're okay, together, not so much. I really like the new doctor, but they got the companions wrong, wrong for who he is and what he's trying to convey ie, the 'am I a good man?' - every time I hear it I keep thinking, the companions he has currently can't answer that, they're too caught up in their own dramas to be a good foil for him.

I think a male companion (not like Danny more like Rory) or a companion like Donna or would be good for him and good for the story.

 

 

I agree with what you're saying.

It would be nice to see a male companion. They're usually female.

I think a companion who is less absorbed in their own drama would be a good foil regardless of whether they are male or female.

 

 

However, I enjoyed the dynamic of this series because it didn't work.

The Doctor and Clara didn't get on. That to me led to some interesting scenarios play out that we don't normally see in Doctor Who.

 

 

 

My idea of a companion was... WARNING. LONG POST

 

Spoiler

 

20 something who grew up in a violent area with poor job opportunities and gang violence.
This individual is an inquisitive individual who wants to one day reach for the stars.

She however didn't perform well at school because her single mother was paralysed by a shooting.
She spent most of her time looking after her disabled mother, whilst trying to make ends meet on a minimum wage salary.

Her mother passes away due to health complications and now she is truly all alone.
She spends her evenings just staring into the stars, wondering what is out there.

When meeting the Doctor to begin with she is uncertain what to make of The Doctor but excited at the possibility of going as far away from her life on Earth as possible. This is a companion who is very inquisitive, tends to use the TARDIS console to research places before they arrive and is one of the few companions who learns how to fly a TARDIS. The Doctor is pleased to find someone who shares his curiosity regarding new cultures, scientific phenomena and time travel.

This is an individual who grows from a rough damaged individual to a decisive leading character. Much like Clara was in Flatline, only this character makes a slow gradual transition towards that end point. The Doctor is so enamoured by her abilities that he gets her in touch with UNIT. This girl has a long career ahead of her...

What do you think?
What do you have in mind for a new companion?

 

[TheClonesLegacy]

So Ace?

You pretty much described Ace.

Who did this once.

Though 7 was going to makes her a TimeLord...not a UNIT employee...

[Bugsie]

I definitely think a companion has to have a genuine sense of wonder, which Clara did to a certain degree, but I don't think the conflict with the new doctor was handled at all well, it really didn't work for me. You can have conflict without it being as mean spirited as it felt to me.

Your idea for a companion - and description, sounds like a great foil. You could have conflict and wariness without the underlying antagonism that I got from this latest series.

[Abraham_uk]

So Ace?

You pretty much described Ace.

Who did this once.

Though 7 was going to makes her a TimeLord...not a UNIT employee...

 

Ace and Slyvester McCoy! Such a great duo!

Annnnd BBC cancelled the show!

[Abraham_uk]

I definitely think a companion has to have a genuine sense of wonder, which Clara did to a certain degree, but I don't think the conflict with the new doctor was handled at all well, it really didn't work for me. You can have conflict without it being as mean spirited as it felt to me.

Your idea for a companion - and description, sounds like a great foil. You could have conflict and wariness without the underlying antagonism that I got from this latest series.

 

 

All right "PE"

 

How did that become an insult?

PE stand for physical education.

 

With lots of hard work you could look incredibly awesome and as for your mental health...

Imagine a mind filled with endorphins. That rush you get after running for several miles.

 

What other subject floods one's brains with that much energy?

People in STEM fields use the energy they get from intense exercise to help motivate themselves to study.

 

Besides who doesn't like a physically enduring mathematical wizard who is great with children and shows responsibility?

Fit, smart and responsible parent all rolled into one.

 

If I were to just change one thing about Peter Capaldi's Doctor, (an incarnation that I love by the way) it would be abandoning those dismissive nicknames.

I know Malcolm Tucker is desperately trying to curse his way into Doctor Who but since this is a kids show, he'll make do with "Boy Scout" and "PE"!

 

 

Spoiler about Ace.

 

Spoiler

 

What Ace did to that Dalek, wouldn't work on today's Daleks.

They are a lot more robust these days.

 

Baseball bats tend to be ineffective.

Heck even explosives don't seem to work.

 

Though I do love that scene where she uses the distraction and whacks the Dalek from behind.

Shows a lot of resourcefulness. I generally end up loving 90% of the companions of both Classic and New Who. Ace is definitely in the 90%.

 

[Bugsie]

LOL, I forgot there has been at least one reference to Malcolm Tucker that I noticed in the current season, it alluded to expletives and a copious amount of them!

[Sifr]

I definitely think a companion has to have a genuine sense of wonder, which Clara did to a certain degree, but I don't think the conflict with the new doctor was handled at all well, it really didn't work for me. You can have conflict without it being as mean spirited as it felt to me.

 

Yeah, the conflict with the new Doctor was poorly handled and Clara became increasingly mean-spirited to this new Doctor, calling him out on things and undermining him in a way that she never would have with Eleven.

 

Personally, it felt to me like Clara wanted to "dump" Twelve right from the start because he was no longer the same "fantasy boyfriend" that she'd had in Eleven, but she didn't want to admit that despite her claim to Vastra, she really is that shallow after all. Sure, it's not her fault that she doesn't gel with the new Doctor, but she didn't really seem to be that concerned in making an effort to try to get along with him, instead chose to simply to pick at all the perceived flaws she didn't like in his new persona, while ignoring her own.

 

I liked Clara in Series 7, but felt that the mystery took up the focus and she never developed beyond a blank slate. Sadly, in Series 8, it seemed that more the more we scratched away at the surface, we learned that underneath, she's actually not a particular nice person when it comes to how she treats her friends or her loved ones.

[Heimdall]

I never really felt that Clara wanted to "dump" 12. The problem is that she's a control freak and she just watched her friend dramatically shift his appearance and personality. It doesn't help that 12 is much more belligerent, cynical, and less open than 11. Understandably, she's a bit disturbed and feels the need to challenge him and push him to the open hearted benevolence she saw in 11, not solely to satisfy her preconceptions, but because he felt such self doubt himself about being a good man. When it came down to it, she did all she could to help him, didn't she? I just think that caring about someone means challenging them when it matters. There were plenty of moments in Series 8 where 12 deserved to be challenged. (And some that were a bit petty, others just because 12 seems a touch more manipulative with his companions than 11)

Yeah, she's a bit blind to her own flaws, won't deny that.

[Sifr]

I never really felt that Clara wanted to "dump" 12. The problem is that she's a control freak and she just watched her friend dramatically shift his appearance and personality. It doesn't help that 12 is much more belligerent, cynical, and less open than 11. Understandably, she's a bit disturbed and feels the need to challenge him and push him to the open hearted benevolence she saw in 11, not solely to satisfy her preconceptions, but because he felt such self doubt himself about being a good man. When it came down to it, she did all she could to help him, didn't she? I just think that caring about someone means challenging them when it matters. There were plenty of moments in Series 8 where 12 deserved to be challenged. (And some that were a bit petty, others just because 12 seems a touch more manipulative with his companions than 11)

Yeah, she's a bit blind to her own flaws, won't deny that.

 

But surely the only companion (save River, in various other media) to have met every incarnation of the Doctor should be a lot more understanding of each incarnation of the Doctor having a completely different appearance and personality? I'm not denying that it would be a shock, but she should know by now that he's not going to be the same as Eleven.

 

While everything you said about Twelve is true, the same could be said of Nine, who was much the same and struggled with the same issues. However, when it came to his companions, the reason I think Rose was better with Nine was because he pushed her to become a better person and she did, whereas Ten coddled her to the point where she became insufferable. The same with Jack, who stopped being a self-centred con-man only out for himself, to someone willing to give his life to save people both in "The Doctor Dances" and "The Parting of the Ways", because of the Ninth Doctor challenging him to prove him wrong.

 

Perhaps the reason Twelve and Clara clash so much is because while he's trying to push and challenge her in the same manner to become a better person and be less of a control freak, she's pushing right back for him to become more like Eleven, which more in keeping with how she wants him to be? Both have their hearts (all three of them) in the right place, but the end result is just two people trying to topple a wobbly brick wall by pushing at it from opposite sides.

 

While Clara did try to help him adjust, she never seemed all that interested in trying to understand this new Doctor and the reasons for why he operates in the way he does? Yeah, he can be aloof, authoritarian, manipulative, rude, and deeply cynical, but that's no different from One, Three, Seven, Six and Nine, who despite those qualities never stopped trying to help people. Twelve never stops caring, even if he acts like he doesn't.

[Abraham_uk]

 

I liked Clara in Series 7, but felt that the mystery took up the focus and she never developed beyond a blank slate. Sadly, in Series 8, it seemed that more the more we scratched away at the surface, we learned that underneath, she's actually not a particular nice person when it comes to how she treats her friends or her loved ones.

 

 

You've just explained why I loved Clara in Series 8.

Heck I would have loved it if they had developed her megalomania.

It was a pretty bald move to make The Doctor's companion so mean spirited in a series where The Doctor himself had gotten a lot grumpier.

 

 

Spoiler

 

I've just watched Gone Girl.

What a delicious conniving character Rosamond Pike was...

Loved it!

 

[Heimdall]

But surely the only companion (save River, in various other media) to have met every incarnation of the Doctor should be a lot more understanding of each incarnation of the Doctor having a completely different appearance and personality? I'm not denying that it would be a shock, but she should know by now that he's not going to be the same as Eleven.

Perhaps, though there's a difference between knowing that he'll change and actually seeing it happen to the version she knows, knowing that version will be gone forever. A bit like watching a friend die. It takes some doing to fully accept that this very different person is in fact the same person.
 

Perhaps the reason Twelve and Clara clash so much is because while he's trying to push and challenge her in the same manner to become a better person and be less of a control freak, she's pushing right back for him to become more like Eleven, which more in keeping with how she wants him to be? Both have their hearts (all three of them) in the right place, but the end result is just two people trying to topple a wobbly brick wall by pushing at it from opposite sides.

I think Clara was more thinking about what Eleven told her about the name "Doctor" being a choice to help others when she pushed Twelve, since he often made a big fuss about not caring whenever someone came asking for his help this series. This exchange comes to mind from the episode inside the dalek(Somewhat facetious, but it illustrates the point):

• Clara:  I'm his carer
• Twelve:  Yes, she cares so I don't have to.

And he was openly questioning whether he was a good man, which distressed her, hence the pushing towards what she saw as what the benevolent doctor should be like.  Plus, she was usually a bit upset by his occasional habit of using her as a pawn in his plans without explaining anything until the last minute.  Understandably aggravating.
 

While Clara did try to help him adjust, she never seemed all that interested in trying to understand this new Doctor and the reasons for why he operates in the way he does? Yeah, he can be aloof, authoritarian, manipulative, rude, and deeply cynical, but that's no different from One, Three, Seven, Six and Nine, who despite those qualities never stopped trying to help people. Twelve never stops caring, even if he acts like he doesn't.

Well, Clara never met those Doctors. She only knew the one well beforehand (Brief encounter with Ten and the War Doctor not withstanding, jumping into his timeline was... a peculiar circumstance involving copies of her... Yeah, whatever it was) and it doesn't help her impression that Eleven was so extroverted and optimistic in his adventures. As you said, Twelve often acted like he didn't care, sometimes only providing help after Clara browbeat him into it. I don't think Clara wasn't interested in understanding the new Doctor, so much as she was almost desperate to remind him that, despite those differences, at his core he's still the man that took the name "Doctor" all those years ago.  I actually think Twelve invited it deliberately, he wanted her to remind him of that in his personal crisis.

[Abraham_uk]

I actually loved the fact that Clara and The Doctor didn't get along.

At times they over did it.

 

Part of what makes us as people interesting

Spoiler

(let's stop using the term "human" one day we might meet aliens who are people just like us)

is when we don't get along. Part of the challenge, is learning to accept that we won't get along with everyone. Not because one person is unlikable. It is perfectly reasonable for two likable people not to get along. Differences in opinion, outlooks and approaches can do this.

 

Now imagine someone who you really liked died and someone who was completely different took their place.

 

I don't care how lovable, kind and considerate the replacement is, I will find it hard to like them. How dare they take the place of someone that I loved!

 

Each of the Doctors are different people. David Tennant's incarnation said that regeneration was very much like death in his last adventure. "I don't want to go" became one of his defining lines. He was a Doctor who had such a lust for adventure and exploration, to regenerate would mean the end of all of this for him. A new Doctor would take his place. I don't see the incarnations of The Doctor as the same person any more. They're all different people with some similarities.

 

Clara lost her best friend (Matt Smith). The eccentric genius who showed her a roaring ocean of adventure through aeons and galaxies. A man who showed purpose and potential to a person who didn't know who they wanted to be. Clara became a hero in her own right thanks to the opportunities that the 11th Doctor gave her. She was so enamoured with this man that she risked life and limb to save his life. No future incarnations of The Doctor could ever trump that. The 12th Doctor (Peter Capaldi) just isn't the same person. Heck even if he did have the same personality, he still would never be the 11th incarnation.

 

Don't get me wrong. The 12th incarnation really helped Clara grow as a person. She took the role of the Doctor briefly, she learnt about the darker side of her own personality and she began to realise how she had treated those closest to her. Both incarnations made her feel "special", but for Clara, the 11th was the definitive.

[Abraham_uk]

 

 

I liked Clara. Especially this series. You can read my previous posts on this thread if you want to know why.

 

Thing is, where I'm from "farewell" means "farewell". Probably just a quirky aspect of British culture.

Last episode had a definitive "farewell" to this character. But I guess "farewell" and "see you later" are one and the same.

 

I suppose this is a "last hurrah!" then. By "last hurrah" I mean maybe several more adventures.

 

Saying goodbye to a companion is supposed to be a bitter sweet moment.

It's that moment where you celebrate a companion before they outstay their welcome and embrace their successor.

It's been great knowing you, but I guess it's time to say goodbye.

 

Let's just say that seeing Clara for "the last time" at the end of "Death In Heaven" was this kind of moment.

Seeing her again was this kind of moment!

 

Why? Because they sapped away all of the emotion from that farewell.

Please note that we had an angry farewell and a mournful farewell this series.

 

I really enjoyed Clara Oswald. I thought she was a great companion. But I also want to move on.

I'm one of those guys who wants to see a new companion every 1-2 years. New companions change up the dynamic.

 

 

Two of the aspects that keep Doctor Who fresh are:

 

New Doctor

New companion

 

I am excited of the prospect of a new companion.

Keeping the same companion does not excite me. It annoys me.

 

 

Anyway. What do you think?

Is Clara Oswald only returning for the Christmas special, or is she returning for another series?

Do you welcome more Clara Oswald?

 

 

 

On a positive note, I really liked the cheeky chappy from Misfits. Misfits was a fun though at times disappointing series.

But the humour, ridiculous comedic moments, larger than life characters and over dramatic foreshadowing along with dramatic music created an entertaining blend of enjoyable nonsense. Every actor on that show was awesome, including Nathan McMullen who you saw in that clip.

[Liamv2]

It better just be for the christmas special. I found her kinda meh.

[Heimdall]

 

 

I liked Clara. Especially this series. You can read my previous posts on this thread if you want to know why.

 

Thing is, where I'm from "farewell" means "farewell". Probably just a quirky aspect of British culture.

Last episode had a definitive "farewell" to this character. But I guess "farewell" and "see you later" are one and the same.

 

I suppose this is a "last hurrah!" then. By "last hurrah" I mean maybe several more adventures.

 

Saying goodbye to a companion is supposed to be a bitter sweet moment.

It's that moment where you celebrate a companion before they outstay their welcome and embrace their successor.

It's been great knowing you, but I guess it's time to say goodbye.

 

Let's just say that seeing Clara for "the last time" at the end of "Death In Heaven" was this kind of moment.

Seeing her again was this kind of moment!

 

Why? Because they sapped away all of the emotion from that farewell.

Please note that we had an angry farewell and a mournful farewell this series.

 

I really enjoyed Clara Oswald. I thought she was a great companion. But I also want to move on.

I'm one of those guys who wants to see a new companion every 1-2 years. New companions change up the dynamic.

 

 

Two of the aspects that keep Doctor Who fresh are:

 

New Doctor

New companion

 

I am excited of the prospect of a new companion.

Keeping the same companion does not excite me. It annoys me.

 

 

Anyway. What do you think?

Is Clara Oswald only returning for the Christmas special, or is she returning for another series?

Do you welcome more Clara Oswald?

To be honest, I was expecting Clara to come back after they lied to each other in the final scene.  I just couldn't see the writers letting that go.

[In Exile]

Yeah, the conflict with the new Doctor was poorly handled and Clara became increasingly mean-spirited to this new Doctor, calling him out on things and undermining him in a way that she never would have with Eleven.

Personally, it felt to me like Clara wanted to "dump" Twelve right from the start because he was no longer the same "fantasy boyfriend" that she'd had in Eleven, but she didn't want to admit that despite her claim to Vastra, she really is that shallow after all. Sure, it's not her fault that she doesn't gel with the new Doctor, but she didn't really seem to be that concerned in making an effort to try to get along with him, instead chose to simply to pick at all the perceived flaws she didn't like in his new persona, while ignoring her own.

I liked Clara in Series 7, but felt that the mystery took up the focus and she never developed beyond a blank slate. Sadly, in Series 8, it seemed that more the more we scratched away at the surface, we learned that underneath, she's actually not a particular nice person when it comes to how she treats her friends or her loved ones.

The problem is that this Doctor is a hypocritical jerkass. Clara isn't any better, except that she's just a regular jerk. Like in the moon abortion episode - Clara was a jerk the entire time but the Doctor just ditched her and put the entire fate of the world in her hands with 0 information.

[TheClonesLegacy]

Aren't all the doctors hypocritical jerkasses though?
11 wasn't exactly innocent.

[In Exile]

Aren't all the doctors hypocritical jerkasses though?
11 wasn't exactly innocent.

Sort of. 11 (technically 12) wasnt all "you humans need to save your own damn selves" attitude. That's a new kind of hypocrisy, because none of 9-11(12) ever pretended to be something other than interested in saving lives. I'll stand by and let you die is pretty reougnant to the core idea of what the Doctor is supposed to be as a character.

[TheClonesLegacy]

Sort of. 11 (technically 12) wasnt all "you humans need to save your own damn selves" attitude. That's a new kind of hypocrisy, because none of 9-11(12) ever pretended to be something other than interested in saving lives. I'll stand by and let you die is pretty reougnant to the core idea of what the Doctor is supposed to be as a character.

6 and 7.

Hell even 1 was like that. So it's not an alien concept.

For example, Batmans killed ALOT of people in 75 years, and not killing is a pretty big component of the character.

 

And get rid of that technicality stuff. Just use their assigned numbers. It's really stupid and it pisses me off when people do that

Eccelston is 9, Tennant is 10, Smith is 11, and Capaldi is 12.

Hurt is War

and Metacrisis doesn't count.

It's like counting Peter Cushing as the 2nd Doctor. Yes, he was The Doctor twice. But he doesn't count in the numbering, same with Shalka 9.

[In Exile]

6 and 7.

Hell even 1 was like that. So it's not an alien concept.

 

It's not an alien concept in the sense that they did with some characters despite having them mostly save anyone anyway. But when it's a radical character shift from 8-11, acting as if the Doctor was always like that is a huge failure in the portrayal. Especially when the episode plays the Doctor as somehow being consistent with the persona of the Doctor vs. the individual personality. Sure, 12 doesn't have to be as big a lover of humans as 10, but that doesn't mean that

[OdanUrr]

So, yes, I'm back... kinda. I haven't watched a single episode of the new series because I was waiting for it to finish so I could watch them all in one go!

 

Feel free to give me your non-spoilerific impressions of Series 8 though.

 

I just wanted to share something that's come to my attention. If you already knew this, I apologize. Apparently, new editions of the Doctor Who box sets have been released starting August. I think they're slim box (I asked Amazon.uk about this and they told me they'd check and get back to me), what's good since they'd take up less space, but the best part's the new art (at least for the earlier seasons and it's excellent!!!). I'll leave you with the art for the new editions (you'll notice each has a grey bar at the top indicating the Doctor).

 

Series 1:

Spoiler

 

Series 2:

Spoiler

 

Series 3:

Spoiler

 

Series 4:

Spoiler

 

10th Specials:

Spoiler

 

Series 5:

Spoiler

 

Series 6:

Spoiler

 

Series 7:

Spoiler

[Abraham_uk]

I'm not surprised about the ratings being 12.

Dr Who is not a kids show.

It contains:

 

1. Assault
2. Killing
3. Fear of death
4. Mass Murder (perhaps even genocide)
5. Self sacrifice
6. Dying in natural events.
7. Some have argued even sexual assault.
8. The sexual innuendos aren't really on my radar, but "mild sexual references" do raise an eyebrow. It's enough for a PG rating in the UK.
9. Moments of torture. (like when the Doctor became a cactus plant in Classic Who )
10. Kidnapping
11. Mind control
12. Theft
13. Drugs (there is a strange episode of New Who where people are hooked on "emotions". Bizarre I know).

 

 

Let's put it this way. A true children show must be U in my opinion. PG could be a family picture. However 12 does reflect the often brutal nature of travelling with the Doctor. It's frightening, full of dangerous creatures and really tough dilemmas. These dilemmas are followed by some difficult moral questions. The Doctor is a hero that operates in shades of grey and asks a lot from companions.

 

I am not a prude who says "children under 12 must not watch any 12, 15 or 18 rated shows/films". I feel this is the parent's choice to make and for a teenager it becomes their choice. I am merely saying that calling Dr Who a kids show is disrespectful towards both Classic Who and New Who. Come on, one story had the Doctor debating whether or not the Doctor had the right to exterminate the entire Dalek race. Not exactly kid friendly. In addition I feel that calling Doctor Who a "kids show" is unhelpful since parents who do worry about what their kids are watching would be fed inaccurate information.

[OdanUrr]

If anyone's still interested, I finally got word from Amazon.uk. I asked for the Series 2 DVD but I'm assuming it applies to all. Anyway, dimensions are as follow: 18 x 13 x 1.5 cm. If the other DVDs follow suit, that means the first 7 series, plus Tennant's specials, should take up no more than 12 cm (width) on your bookshelf. Cheers!

[Abraham_uk]

If anyone's still interested, I finally got word from Amazon.uk. I asked for the Series 2 DVD but I'm assuming it applies to all. Anyway, dimensions are as follow: 18 x 13 x 1.5 cm. If the other DVDs follow suit, that means the first 7 series, plus Tennant's specials, should take up no more than 12 cm (width) on your bookshelf. Cheers!

 

I'm quoting your post so that someone heeds your advert.

[OdanUrr]

I'm quoting your post so that someone heeds your advert.

 

I think it's a good option if you're short on physical space.