189 réponses à ce sujet

[TheMyron]

I have heard plenty of reasons as to why people dislike/hate Ashley, but I see plenty of people liking her in the polls, but seem to have a hard time finding their opinions in the forums.
Please people, try not to go to far off topic, thanks. Preferably no anti-Ashley's at all, like the first commentator below.

To those who romance Ashley, why Ashley?

Modifié par TheMyron, 26 mai 2013 - 09:49 .

[Samtheman63]

me1 because she was the only human female

me3 i shot her for being annoying

[DeinonSlayer]

Ouch, Sam.

I agree though - she was a much better character in ME1. Now, I find there really isn't a reason to recruit her in ME3 unless you're continuing a romance.

[Iakus]

Because she was the most complex character in the game, struggling with the ideals of the Alliance and a general cynicism about people in general.She's a decent person without being a wide-eyed idealist She's aggressive, tends to shoot her mouth off, and speaks from the heart.

Sadly, in ME3, she goes almost entirely mute for the second half of the game. And she sticks to "safe" subjects like her family. It's like there was a rule to make her as inoffensive as possible.

[CptData]

TheMyron wrote...

I have heard plenty of reasons as to why people dislike/hate Ashley, but I see plenty of people liking her in the polls, but seem to have a hard time finding their opinions in the forums.
Please people, try not to go to far off topic, thanks. Preferably no anti-Ashley's at all, like the first commentator below.

To those who romance Ashley, why Ashley?

Why do I love Ashley as a character? Hmmm ...
Okay, tbh, without ME1, I couldn't like her that much. She feels incomplete in ME3, lacks some decent parts of her character in ME1 and has not much that redeems her. Ash has a tendency to be annoying if you have no idea who she is.
Therefore, playing ME1 is a prereq. Her romance feels quite complete and fulfilling and you'll find out some stuff about her, you'd never learn. For example: she's no racist and she's no religious bigot. But, of course, if you don't talk to her at all, her statements might rub you the wrong way.
In very short words: Ashley is pro-human, but without the racist agenda TIM has. And she's not experienced with Aliens, but will do better.

Overall, out of the bunch, Ashley is pretty much the "normal" one. She comes with strengths and weaknesses, traits and quirks, all the jazz. The girl next door, that's Ashley. And that's why it's quite easy to fall for her, if you have a thing for "normal" women.

As I said, you need to play ME1 first, otherwise Ashley is lacking too much in ME3. Most of my image of her is based on what I saw in ME1 plus tons of own ideas.

Modifié par CptData, 26 mai 2013 - 10:13 .

[Mr.House]

iakus wrote...

Because she was the most complex character in the game, struggling with the ideals of the Alliance and a general cynicism about people in general.She's a decent person without being a wide-eyed idealist She's aggressive, tends to shoot her mouth off, and speaks from the heart.

Sadly, in ME3, she goes almost entirely mute for the second half of the game. And she sticks to "safe" subjects like her family. It's like there was a rule to make her as inoffensive as possible.

She tells Shepard before she dies to go to hell. I tihnk the writer tried to make the players hate Ash in ME3.

Modifié par Mr.House, 26 mai 2013 - 10:13 .

[AresKeith]

Mr.House wrote...

iakus wrote...

Because she was the most complex character in the game, struggling with the ideals of the Alliance and a general cynicism about people in general.She's a decent person without being a wide-eyed idealist She's aggressive, tends to shoot her mouth off, and speaks from the heart.

Sadly, in ME3, she goes almost entirely mute for the second half of the game. And she sticks to "safe" subjects like her family. It's like there was a rule to make her as inoffensive as possible.

She tells Shepard before she dies to go to hell. I tihnk the writer tried to make the players hate Ash in ME3.

I found it really annoying how they handled her in ME3

[mumba]

Mr.House wrote...

She tells Shepard before she dies to go to hell. I tihnk the writer tried to make the players hate Ash in ME3.

I laughed so hard when she said that after I shot her.

[Made Nightwing]

AresKeith wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

iakus wrote...

Because she was the most complex character in the game, struggling with the ideals of the Alliance and a general cynicism about people in general.She's a decent person without being a wide-eyed idealist She's aggressive, tends to shoot her mouth off, and speaks from the heart.

Sadly, in ME3, she goes almost entirely mute for the second half of the game. And she sticks to "safe" subjects like her family. It's like there was a rule to make her as inoffensive as possible.

She tells Shepard before she dies to go to hell. I tihnk the writer tried to make the players hate Ash in ME3.

I found it really annoying how they handled her in ME3

Actually, in some situations, Jay wrote her really well. She had some great scenes that were cut for some unknown reason. The dialogue he wrote where Shepard and Ashley talk about the afterlife was very moving, like how Chris would have written her.

However, for some reason, other writers can take control of characters during various scenes. So we have Mac writing her for Mars, and someone else writing her for the coup, with the best of Jay's dialogue being shuffled out of sight for being 'controversial'.

[Made Nightwing]

Mumba1511 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

She tells Shepard before she dies to go to hell. I tihnk the writer tried to make the players hate Ash in ME3.

I laughed so hard when she said that after I shot her.

Well, Shepard did get the endings where he either dies, dies or dies, so you can't say her predictions weren't accurate.

[AresKeith]

Made Nightwing wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

iakus wrote...

Because she was the most complex character in the game, struggling with the ideals of the Alliance and a general cynicism about people in general.She's a decent person without being a wide-eyed idealist She's aggressive, tends to shoot her mouth off, and speaks from the heart.

Sadly, in ME3, she goes almost entirely mute for the second half of the game. And she sticks to "safe" subjects like her family. It's like there was a rule to make her as inoffensive as possible.

She tells Shepard before she dies to go to hell. I tihnk the writer tried to make the players hate Ash in ME3.

I found it really annoying how they handled her in ME3

Actually, in some situations, Jay wrote her really well. She had some great scenes that were cut for some unknown reason. The dialogue he wrote where Shepard and Ashley talk about the afterlife was very moving, like how Chris would have written her.

However, for some reason, other writers can take control of characters during various scenes. So we have Mac writing her for Mars, and someone else writing her for the coup, with the best of Jay's dialogue being shuffled out of sight for being 'controversial'.

And that's what annoyed me when I found out about that, plus the unnecessary appearance change  

[CptData]

Made Nightwing wrote...

Actually, in some situations, Jay wrote her really well. She had some great scenes that were cut for some unknown reason. The dialogue he wrote where Shepard and Ashley talk about the afterlife was very moving, like how Chris would have written her.

However, for some reason, other writers can take control of characters during various scenes. So we have Mac writing her for Mars, and someone else writing her for the coup, with the best of Jay's dialogue being shuffled out of sight for being 'controversial'.

Yeah, and I have hoped said dialogue would return with a patch or something. After all, it got recorded, right? Why not adding that scene with a patch? 'cause it wasn't seen as "important" for the fans. I don't believe it was caused by budget issues. Either that scene was created - and removed because it wasn't finished, or it was taken out by a bug. Overall, Ashley's content seems to suffer some bugs. And while Liara's bugs got fixed, most of Ashley's dialogue bugs remained. I wish BW would have fixed her bugs as well.

Thing is: that afterlife-dialoge is highly significant in case of a romance and should have filled the gap between date and romantic climax scene.

Also I don't have big issues with generic lines written by other writers, 'though the romance and friendship content should have been written by Chris only. Too bad he wasn't part of the team in ME3

[Iakus]

AresKeith wrote...

And that's what annoyed me when I found out about that, plus the unnecessary appearance change  

Fortunately I have a mode that gives her back the bun.  Now if only I could get her into a real Alliance uniform, that brawl in the Citadel DLC wouldn't look so silly...

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Mr.House wrote...

iakus wrote...

Because she was the most complex character in the game, struggling with the ideals of the Alliance and a general cynicism about people in general.She's a decent person without being a wide-eyed idealist She's aggressive, tends to shoot her mouth off, and speaks from the heart.

Sadly, in ME3, she goes almost entirely mute for the second half of the game. And she sticks to "safe" subjects like her family. It's like there was a rule to make her as inoffensive as possible.

She tells Shepard before she dies to go to hell. I tihnk the writer tried to make the players hate Ash in ME3.

I admit, I never saw Ashley as deep or complex, even back in the ME1 days. I thought her opinions and beliefs were fairly outdated and offensive to me. 

I also admit, I wish there was more of a chance to be dismissive and argumentative towards her.

I do love her "I hope the Reapers send you to hell!" line, then doing sending the Reapers to hell. I do like the idea of having a squadmate who becomes persona non grata as well. I think it adds drama.

Admittedly, I would have loved an oppurtunity to talk to her about the afterlife, and troll her some more.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 26 mai 2013 - 10:44 .

[EpicBoot2daFace]

The only other female LI that I liked was Tali. But she's more like a sister. Ash is a character that I could relate to. As others have said, she's normal for the most part. Sometimes that's all you need.

[AresKeith]

iakus wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

And that's what annoyed me when I found out about that, plus the unnecessary appearance change  

Fortunately I have a mode that gives her back the bun.  Now if only I could get her into a real Alliance uniform, that brawl in the Citadel DLC wouldn't look so silly...

I wasn't really a fan of the bun, a ponytail would've been a good middle-ground between the bun and having her hair down IMO

And her having a unique Alliance uniform isn't a bad idea but what Bioware chose to do was over doing it

[Iakus]

CptData wrote...

Yeah, and I have hoped said dialogue would return with a patch or something. After all, it got recorded, right? Why not adding that scene with a patch? 'cause it wasn't seen as "important" for the fans. I don't believe it was caused by budget issues. Either that scene was created - and removed because it wasn't finished, or it was taken out by a bug. Overall, Ashley's content seems to suffer some bugs. And while Liara's bugs got fixed, most of Ashley's dialogue bugs remained. I wish BW would have fixed her bugs as well.

Ironically, the bug where Aytheta and Shepard talk about Liara like she's Shepard's girlfriend persists... 

[BioWareM0d13]

CptData wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote...

Actually, in some situations, Jay wrote her really well. She had some great scenes that were cut for some unknown reason. The dialogue he wrote where Shepard and Ashley talk about the afterlife was very moving, like how Chris would have written her.

However, for some reason, other writers can take control of characters during various scenes. So we have Mac writing her for Mars, and someone else writing her for the coup, with the best of Jay's dialogue being shuffled out of sight for being 'controversial'.

Yeah, and I have hoped said dialogue would return with a patch or something. After all, it got recorded, right? 

I don't believe those lines were ever recorded.

[Made Nightwing]

Well OP, I wasn't quite so opposed to her general presentation in ME3. But I digress, the whole reason Ashley appeals to me as a character is how complete she is. I am literally able to find out everything about her, as a person. Her hobbies, her philosophy, her politics, her family. And they were more than just plot points. If you think about it, everyone who had family in ME3 eventually had them appear as a point of conflict, where their entire character development hinged on that person. Done really well, no question, but Ashley stood out in that her character development lay elsewhere, her family was just there.

I've always loved Tennyson, so there was that as well.

Let's see...oh yeah, another big part was that I utterly loathed ME1 Liara. I have despised the 'shy, virginal yet not so virginal with you' archetype for a long time, and Liara just fit it to a T. That being said, (loved her in the next games, though). I suppose it comes down to the fact that Ashley is unique in her presentation. We've all seen the sexy super-spy with hidden depths before, we've seen the shy alien virgin before, we've seen the damaged crazy before, but there are very few military characters who have Ashley's level of characterisation. I'm from a military background and have been in service for about a year now, and I find it bemusing just how spot on Chris was when he wrote her. She's tough and confident, sure, but she has interests and beliefs that you wouldn't know just from looking at her. She's borderline offensive and doesn't care, she's not shy about offering up an opinion, and she can be brutally honest. I like that in a person, and in my section mates, guess I like it in fiction as well.

Her opposition to Cerberus I found one of her best points. Cerberus is, in general, a concept I find despicable in the extreme. Over the last few decades in particular, we've seen the consequences of state sponsored terrorism, and what happens when they eventually go rogue. The fact that they then go full evil is something I take an inordinate delight in, I called it the second ME2 started. Watching the Cerberus fanboys go into meltdown was a guilty pleasure. Ashley was as much a mouthpiece for my frustration at having to work with Cerberus in ME2 as she was a foil for Shepard. Likewise, the resolution of their conflict I found heartwarming, since as long as Shepard hasn't acted like a self-righteous d-bag as Shepard is prone to do, Ashley will back down almost immediately. A good tribute to the easy bonds that form between soldiers.

Also, when the best arguments her detractors can come up with range along the lines of 'derp, she's racist', and 'derp, she's religious', there's not much to turn you off romancing her. Honestly, the BSN can read like a Youtube comments section sometimes. The ones who claim her beliefs are offensive are the best. Playing 'spot the bigot' on BSN could be a drinking game. (As you can probably tell, from asking about why people found her romanceable, you've got people banging down the door to tell you why they hate her.)

Modifié par Made Nightwing, 26 mai 2013 - 10:56 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

iakus wrote...

CptData wrote...

Yeah, and I have hoped said dialogue would return with a patch or something. After all, it got recorded, right? Why not adding that scene with a patch? 'cause it wasn't seen as "important" for the fans. I don't believe it was caused by budget issues. Either that scene was created - and removed because it wasn't finished, or it was taken out by a bug. Overall, Ashley's content seems to suffer some bugs. And while Liara's bugs got fixed, most of Ashley's dialogue bugs remained. I wish BW would have fixed her bugs as well.

Ironically, the bug where Aytheta and Shepard talk about Liara like she's Shepard's girlfriend persists... 

That was supposed to have been fixed after the Extended Cut. I don't see that bug anymore.

There is one thing I don't like. When talking to an unromanced Liara in ME3 on Mars, when asked why Shepard is fighting, the paragon option basically makes you say that you're fighting for Ashley. And then the whole upset over her after Mars. 

I will admit, from what I've seen, Ashley got short-handed on romance. They really seemed to focus on her as LI pre-game only to fail spectacularly on delivery.

[CptData]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

I admit, I never saw Ashley as deep or complex, even back in the ME1 days. I thought her opinions and beliefs were fairly outdated and offensive to me. 

I also admit, I wish there was more of a chance to be dismissive and argumentative towards her.

I do love her "I hope the Reapers send you to hell!" line, then doing sending the Reapers to hell. I do like the idea of having a squadmate who becomes persona non grata as well. I think it adds drama.

Admittedly, I would have loved an oppurtunity to talk to her about the afterlife, and troll her some more.

Highly depends on what you see as "deep and complex".

Ashley is a complex and deep character in ME1 since you nearly need the full game to learn everything about her. Liara in the other hand is straight forward (talking about sex in first big dialogue *g*) and I simply never found her that interesting.

Another character that felt similar like Ash when it comes to character development was Thane (same writer). Also Miranda was quite interesting, since she changed from "Icequeen" to a "trusted ally and friend" or for a lot of people "lover" as well.

Interesting point, by the way: I know very few people who're "meh" about Ash. Either they love her, or they hate her. In both cases her character provokes strong emotions - which is a big achivement of any writer. The WORST thing something can happen to a written character is: nobody cares about him or her. Can't say that's the case for Ashley.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

CptData wrote...
Highly depends on what you see as "deep and complex".

True. And honestly, I don't see her as deep and complex at all. 

Let's just say that for a lot of things between us, there's a fundamental revulsion that I get from her. 

I know a few people who are meh about her, but I meet the "hate her" portion quite well. Pretty much hated her from the first conversation on the Normandy. 

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 I like her character as a tough, no-nonsense soldier in ME1. Solid romance in an intimate, not overly-serious kinda way.


In ME3 she's just an annoying college sorority bird and her romance is just... "there."

[CptData]

^ that's why 90% of Ash in ME3 is based on my headcanon.

Ashley: Shooting stuff first, romantic stuff later, Skipper.
Shepard: That's my girl.
Wrex: She'd be a perfect Krogan female, Shepard. Every girl that tries shooting me is ... interesting.
Shepard: You got your harem already, Wrex.
Wrex: It's never wrong to look for another female, Shepard. Keep that in mind if you have to repopulate your people.
Ashley: Don't even think about it.

[Made Nightwing]

CptData wrote...

^ that's why 90% of Ash in ME3 is based on my headcanon.

Ashley: Shooting stuff first, romantic stuff later, Skipper.
Shepard: That's my girl.
Wrex: She'd be a perfect Krogan female, Shepard. Every girl that tries shooting me is ... interesting.
Shepard: You got your harem already, Wrex.
Wrex: It's never wrong to look for another female, Shepard. Keep that in mind if you have to repopulate your people.
Ashley: Don't even think about it.

Well, there is evidence for that. The amount of glitched, bugged and cut dialogues between Ash and the rest of the crew is just horrendous. You don't get her radio conversation with Tali unless you set up an enormously complex sequence of events, and that's barely scratching the surface.

Citadel DLC gets it slightly better. The conversation between her and Wrex, where he asks her if she would have shot him on Virmire, is an example. Ashley confirms that she would have killed him if necessary, Wrex answers that he respects her for that. Was a good moment.