189 réponses à ce sujet

[CptData]

That's what I'm talking about, Made Nightwing

She has her moments, even in ME3, but they're rare. That's why I use ME1!Ashley as basis in ME3: how would she react here and there? Why's Ash in that observatory room, why isn't she talking to the rest of the crew?
My headcanon says, Ashley has a hard time to accept Shepard is -really- Shepard and no clone or something. That's so against her beliefs, she simply needs more time. Also I don't know what stuff had happened in those 2 years while Shepard was dead, what kind of missions she had to do, all the jazz. Something changed her, but in her core, she's still ME1!Ashley for me. And that works quite well.

[Mr.House]

Han Shot First wrote...

CptData wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote...

Actually, in some situations, Jay wrote her really well. She had some great scenes that were cut for some unknown reason. The dialogue he wrote where Shepard and Ashley talk about the afterlife was very moving, like how Chris would have written her.

However, for some reason, other writers can take control of characters during various scenes. So we have Mac writing her for Mars, and someone else writing her for the coup, with the best of Jay's dialogue being shuffled out of sight for being 'controversial'.

Yeah, and I have hoped said dialogue would return with a patch or something. After all, it got recorded, right? 

I don't believe those lines were ever recorded.

Then why are they in the game files? I doubt Gandalf put them in there for fun.

The lines where recored and put in the game ifles, they where simply not used in-game becauset he scene was never created. Same with several audio files found that did not make it to the final product. This is not rare in the ME series. ME2 was also filled with it and ME had a few.

Modifié par Mr.House, 26 mai 2013 - 11:18 .

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Made Nightwing wrote...

CptData wrote...

^ that's why 90% of Ash in ME3 is based on my headcanon.

Ashley: Shooting stuff first, romantic stuff later, Skipper.
Shepard: That's my girl.
Wrex: She'd be a perfect Krogan female, Shepard. Every girl that tries shooting me is ... interesting.
Shepard: You got your harem already, Wrex.
Wrex: It's never wrong to look for another female, Shepard. Keep that in mind if you have to repopulate your people.
Ashley: Don't even think about it.

Well, there is evidence for that. The amount of glitched, bugged and cut dialogues between Ash and the rest of the crew is just horrendous. You don't get her radio conversation with Tali unless you set up an enormously complex sequence of events, and that's barely scratching the surface.

Citadel DLC gets it slightly better. The conversation between her and Wrex, where he asks her if she would have shot him on Virmire, is an example. Ashley confirms that she would have killed him if necessary, Wrex answers that he respects her for that. Was a good moment.

I must have missed it. What radio sequence?

[Nole]

I honestly ended the romance with Ashley in me3 and started the one with Liara (Since that wasn't Ashley anymore).

[Iakus]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote...

CptData wrote...

^ that's why 90% of Ash in ME3 is based on my headcanon.

Ashley: Shooting stuff first, romantic stuff later, Skipper.
Shepard: That's my girl.
Wrex: She'd be a perfect Krogan female, Shepard. Every girl that tries shooting me is ... interesting.
Shepard: You got your harem already, Wrex.
Wrex: It's never wrong to look for another female, Shepard. Keep that in mind if you have to repopulate your people.
Ashley: Don't even think about it.

Well, there is evidence for that. The amount of glitched, bugged and cut dialogues between Ash and the rest of the crew is just horrendous. You don't get her radio conversation with Tali unless you set up an enormously complex sequence of events, and that's barely scratching the surface.

Citadel DLC gets it slightly better. The conversation between her and Wrex, where he asks her if she would have shot him on Virmire, is an example. Ashley confirms that she would have killed him if necessary, Wrex answers that he respects her for that. Was a good moment.

I must have missed it. What radio sequence?

Ash and Tali talk about Virmire over the intercomm.  This only triggers if you do the Tuchanka Bomb mission after Rannoch.

This means:

Do rachni mission
Complete Tuchanka
Do Citadel Coup, recruit Ash
Complete Rannoch, recruit Tali (so she's in engineering)
Do Turian platoom/bomb missions

in order to get that conversation.  How many people missed it simply because they do the bomb mission before the rachni one?

[Iakus]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

That was supposed to have been fixed after the Extended Cut. I don't see that bug anymore.

I've gotten it both times I've played since EC

[TheMyron]

CptData wrote...



Highly depends on what you see as "deep and complex".

Ashley is a complex and deep character in ME1 since you nearly need the full game to learn everything about her. Liara in the other hand is straight forward (talking about sex in first big dialogue *g*) and I simply never found her that interesting.

Another character that felt similar like Ash when it comes to character development was Thane (same writer). Also Miranda was quite interesting, since she changed from "Icequeen" to a "trusted ally and friend" or for a lot of people "lover" as well.

Interesting point, by the way: I know very few people who're "meh" about Ash. Either they love her, or they hate her. In both cases her character provokes strong emotions - which is a big achivement of any writer. The WORST thing something can happen to a written character is: nobody cares about him or her. Can't say that's the case for Ashley.

I think Liara was simply talking about her mind-reading ability, which uses the same method of asari copulation.

[Animositisomina]

iakus wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

That was supposed to have been fixed after the Extended Cut. I don't see that bug anymore.

I've gotten it both times I've played since EC

I've had it in nearly every playthrough since the EC as well. The bug definitely still exists.

[chemiclord]

It's what happens when you try to cater to a broad, larger audience.

A lot of character ticks and flaws and development kinda get shuffled off because you KNOW someone will be offended, and those people will complain about it VERY LOUDLY. You cannot tell me for one second that (for example) had ME3 run with Ashley and Shepard's discussion on religion that a group of very touchy atheists wouldn't have COMPLETELY lost their ****.

I mean, hell, who remembers the Fox News flamethrower about the implied nudity and (gasp) S-E-X in the original Mass Effect?

It's not coincidence that a lot of "mainstream" work carries fairly bland stories with very flat characters; because anything that could have made them interesting was carved out of them so it could go "mainstream."

[conjmk]

Kaidan fans are a minority, but we're very vocal.

I think only 1% of the people who play Mass Effect actually choose him. Probably because they're forced to choose Ashley in ME2 and that's when most of the players started.

[AresKeith]

chemiclord wrote...

It's what happens when you try to cater to a broad, larger audience.

A lot of character ticks and flaws and development kinda get shuffled off because you KNOW someone will be offended, and those people will complain about it VERY LOUDLY. You cannot tell me for one second that (for example) had ME3 run with Ashley and Shepard's discussion on religion that a group of very touchy atheists wouldn't have COMPLETELY lost their ****.

I mean, hell, who remembers the Fox News flamethrower about the implied nudity and (gasp) S-E-X in the original Mass Effect?

It's not coincidence that a lot of "mainstream" work carries fairly bland stories with very flat characters; because anything that could have made them interesting was carved out of them so it could go "mainstream."

So what's wrong with one little dialogue opinion to cancel that out?

[Aaleel]

conjmk wrote...

Kaidan fans are a minority, but we're very vocal.

I think only 1% of the people who play Mass Effect actually choose him. Probably because they're forced to choose Ashley in ME2 and that's when most of the players started.

Even if you don't use Genesis you get the VS of the opposite sex of Shepard.  You aren't forced to take Ashley by default on every ME2 game.

Modifié par Aaleel, 27 mai 2013 - 02:55 .

[conjmk]

Yeah, and most of them are male.

[Mr0TYuH]

Chris L'Etoile is a fine writer. He did an outstanding job with Ashley's character in the first game, even basing one of her sisters on his own wife. She had depth and was an intriguing combination of strength and frailty. Unfortunately, other writers never seemed to really understand her character.

[Made Nightwing]

AresKeith wrote...

chemiclord wrote...

It's what happens when you try to cater to a broad, larger audience.

A lot of character ticks and flaws and development kinda get shuffled off because you KNOW someone will be offended, and those people will complain about it VERY LOUDLY. You cannot tell me for one second that (for example) had ME3 run with Ashley and Shepard's discussion on religion that a group of very touchy atheists wouldn't have COMPLETELY lost their ****.

I mean, hell, who remembers the Fox News flamethrower about the implied nudity and (gasp) S-E-X in the original Mass Effect?

It's not coincidence that a lot of "mainstream" work carries fairly bland stories with very flat characters; because anything that could have made them interesting was carved out of them so it could go "mainstream."

So what's wrong with one little dialogue opinion to cancel that out?

Well, if you think about it, Mass Effect didn't have many optional deep and meaningful conversations. In ME2 in particular, you didn't exactly have the option to just not have an opinion on the genophage. Or, on the other hand, you didn't have the ability to tell Miranda that she's a semi-indoctrinated, pitiful pawn of the Illusive Man and that her defences of Cerberus sound like someone without an argument using bluster to cover up the holes in their logic. BioWare never quite seems to get when neutrality or disapproval would be a valid response.

[AresKeith]

Made Nightwing wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

chemiclord wrote...

It's what happens when you try to cater to a broad, larger audience.

A lot of character ticks and flaws and development kinda get shuffled off because you KNOW someone will be offended, and those people will complain about it VERY LOUDLY. You cannot tell me for one second that (for example) had ME3 run with Ashley and Shepard's discussion on religion that a group of very touchy atheists wouldn't have COMPLETELY lost their ****.

I mean, hell, who remembers the Fox News flamethrower about the implied nudity and (gasp) S-E-X in the original Mass Effect?

It's not coincidence that a lot of "mainstream" work carries fairly bland stories with very flat characters; because anything that could have made them interesting was carved out of them so it could go "mainstream."

So what's wrong with one little dialogue opinion to cancel that out?

Well, if you think about it, Mass Effect didn't have many optional deep and meaningful conversations. In ME2 in particular, you didn't exactly have the option to just not have an opinion on the genophage. Or, on the other hand, you didn't have the ability to tell Miranda that she's a semi-indoctrinated, pitiful pawn of the Illusive Man and that her defences of Cerberus sound like someone without an argument using bluster to cover up the holes in their logic. BioWare never quite seems to get when neutrality or disapproval would be a valid response.

Hopefully they will in future games

[EpicBoot2daFace]

chemiclord wrote...

It's what happens when you try to cater to a broad, larger audience.

A lot of character ticks and flaws and development kinda get shuffled off because you KNOW someone will be offended, and those people will complain about it VERY LOUDLY. You cannot tell me for one second that (for example) had ME3 run with Ashley and Shepard's discussion on religion that a group of very touchy atheists wouldn't have COMPLETELY lost their ****.

I mean, hell, who remembers the Fox News flamethrower about the implied nudity and (gasp) S-E-X in the original Mass Effect?

It's not coincidence that a lot of "mainstream" work carries fairly bland stories with very flat characters; because anything that could have made them interesting was carved out of them so it could go "mainstream."

That's one way to look at it. Personally I think it's just bad writing that hurt her character.

[BioWareM0d13]

Mr.House wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

CptData wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote...

Actually, in some situations, Jay wrote her really well. She had some great scenes that were cut for some unknown reason. The dialogue he wrote where Shepard and Ashley talk about the afterlife was very moving, like how Chris would have written her.

However, for some reason, other writers can take control of characters during various scenes. So we have Mac writing her for Mars, and someone else writing her for the coup, with the best of Jay's dialogue being shuffled out of sight for being 'controversial'.

Yeah, and I have hoped said dialogue would return with a patch or something. After all, it got recorded, right? 

I don't believe those lines were ever recorded.

Then why are they in the game files? I doubt Gandalf put them in there for fun.

The lines where recored and put in the game ifles, they where simply not used in-game becauset he scene was never created. Same with several audio files found that did not make it to the final product. This is not rare in the ME series. ME2 was also filled with it and ME had a few.

While there were plenty of lines that were recorded and never made it into all three games, the associated files can be found and extracted from the game disc. For example, this convo with Liara and Ashley. I've yet to see (or hear) a recorded version of Ashley's afterlife discussion however, and have only seen it as text. Considering the game has been out for the more than a year, if those lines were recorded someone would have found them and uploaded them to youtube or similar sites by now.

Since that hasn't happened I'm of the opinion that the conversation was cut from the game before the lines were ever recorded.

[Iakus]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

That's one way to look at it. Personally I think it's just bad writing that hurt her character.

I'm not so sure it's bad writing so much as general lack of content Virtually all ehr lines are on Mars of the hospital.  The content she does get is pretty good (if "safe") She just doesn't get many opportunities to shoot her mouth off like she used to.  In ME1 You could chat with her after every main story mission and get her input.  Not so much here.  Her content was all so front-loaded.

[chemiclord]

AresKeith wrote...

So what's wrong with one little dialogue opinion to cancel that out?

You honestly have no idea how people with an axe to grind work, do you?

It has NOTHING to do with being able to avoid said content.  They are inherently opposed to said content existing at all, in any form, in any way.  I mean, look around you... people EVERYWHERE are WAITING to be offended, and look for the first opportunity they get to go on the attack.

This entire "gay" issue for example.  This society lives with gay people EVERY DAMN DAY, and would NEVER know it unless someone came right up to them and said, "Hi.  I'm queer.  Pleased to meet ya!"  But just the very IDEA that these people exist... somewhere... causes them to get out the picket signs and protest equal marriage rights.

Modifié par chemiclord, 27 mai 2013 - 05:51 .

[AresKeith]

chemiclord wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

So what's wrong with one little dialogue opinion to cancel that out?

You honestly have no idea how people with an axe to grind work, do you?

It has NOTHING to do with being able to avoid said content.  They are inherently opposed to said content existing at all, in any form, in any way.  I mean, look around you... people EVERYWHERE are WAITING to be offended, and look for the first opportunity they get to go on the attack.

This entire "gay" issue for example.  This society lives with gay people EVERY DAMN DAY, and would NEVER know it unless someone came right up to them and said, "Hi.  I'm queer.  Pleased to meet ya!"  But just the very IDEA that these people exist... somewhere... causes them to get out the picket signs and protest equal marriage rights.

Made Nightwing already explained it

[Erez Kristal]

This has nothing to do with love, well with the exception for the love of those legs.. if you can stand her filmsy attidue, lack professionalism as she get drunk before important missions (did this when she was supposed to get her first mission after recovery, what a slacking misfortune example of a soldier) and most important dont mind sharing her with james and the rest of your crew then you will have someone else to keep you warm at night before you go to bed and have nightmares about some little blonde kid and his puppy eyes.

But if you dont need the sex, then just send her to hackett he will know what to do with her... just ask your mom. 



Ashley was always a bad soldier and a tough person to deal with on top of that ine me 1 she was trying to undermine your authority at every turn. you were just distracted by her other good qualities... almost all of us are guilty of that.

Modifié par erezike, 27 mai 2013 - 12:01 .

[Erez Kristal]

CptData wrote...

That's what I'm talking about, Made Nightwing

She has her moments, even in ME3, but they're rare. That's why I use ME1!Ashley as basis in ME3: how would she react here and there? Why's Ash in that observatory room, why isn't she talking to the rest of the crew?
My headcanon says, Ashley has a hard time to accept Shepard is -really- Shepard and no clone or something. That's so against her beliefs, she simply needs more time. Also I don't know what stuff had happened in those 2 years while Shepard was dead, what kind of missions she had to do, all the jazz. Something changed her, but in her core, she's still ME1!Ashley for me. And that works quite well.

She stays in the same room and get drunk because shes a stuckup spectre princess.
On the sr2 everyone needs to pull their weight. 

[Saito404]

erezike wrote...

This has nothing to do with love, well with the exception for the love of those legs.. if you can stand her filmsy attidue, lack professionalism as she get drunk before important missions (did this when she was supposed to get her first mission after recovery, what a slacking misfortune example of a soldier) and most important dont mind sharing her with james and the rest of your crew then you will have someone else to keep you warm at night before you go to bed and have nightmares about some little blonde kid and his puppy eyes.

But if you dont need the sex, then just send her to hackett he will know what to do with her... just ask your mom. 



Ashley was always a bad soldier, and a tough person to deal with. you were just distracted by her other good qualities... almost all of us guilty of that.

WTF did I just read?

Mine reasons for romancing Ashley are the same as Data said.
About ME3, I don't care about ME3, as well as ME2. Both are terribly written games.
As I said before, Ashley in ME3 (and some other characters too) fells like a very good actress who was forced to play in a trash movie. And Shepard is a bad actor who is playing in a trash movie and thinks that it's a good movie.

[Erez Kristal]

Me 2 was a very good game, its plot falls together well and is easy to rp with. plust shepard get to mingle with everything that isnt bolted to the floor(its a ship)

Modifié par erezike, 27 mai 2013 - 12:05 .