189 réponses à ce sujet

[Nightdragon8]

TheMyron wrote...

Jukaga wrote...

TheMyron wrote...



With no evidence, killing Elnora is murder-of-a-chick, ( which is worse than regular in my book.), As for the Rachni Queen, I see a long term solution the Krogan overbreeding problem after I cure the genophage.

More details on this forum: http://social.biowar...ndex/16650673/1

Hardly. If you pay attention, it's made clear that Eclipse members only get their uniform after performing their first kill. Keeping that in mind, it's painfully obvious that she is lying to you.

True, but you find out afterwards.

no you find that out before, The Volus tells you, if you do all the investgate options. Although, she is your only info on the "cargo" (cuse I can't spell what it is) to impress Samara.

[Iakus]

CptData wrote...

^ wrong quote / quote mix'd, Iakus. I like Kaidan

My bad.  Fixed. 

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Helios969 wrote...

Just finally got around to romancing her...have to say it helps some. She's still far from my favorite character, but it adds a bit more depth to her. It's especially fun if you romance Miranda in 2 and she scolds you for your choice and you get the renegade option and berate her for treating you like dirt and essentially dumping you on Horizon in 2. There's some good tension and conflict between Shep and Ash. In truth it's probably the most realistic "relationship" Mass Effect offers. If you haven't done so I recommend romancing her and taking her on every mission...I still don't love her, but no longer despise her the way I used to. Now if there was a way to make Kaiden less boring...

That's part of what kills her for me as a character (granted, ME1 does that enough for me.) The tension and crap that she gives you for not doing what she wants you to do just makes her same like a narrow-minded idiot. 

In my canon, the moment where she scolds you and insults Miranda (and you) is the moment where my Shepard loses interest in even making peace with her as he was trying to do (he wasn't trying to restart anything, just clear the air between them and she took it the wrong way).

Anyway's, I also disagree with her being the most realistic romance. Well maybe not realistic, but I think Miranda's is much better for both characters as you can definitely see a marked change in her character and she grows as a person. It's why I consider Shepard and Miranda's romance to be the best of the series. 

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

The trust issues of the VS just comes off as paranoid and delusional if Shepard blew up the base.

[CronoDragoon]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Anyway's, I also disagree with her being the most realistic romance. Well maybe not realistic, but I think Miranda's is much better for both characters as you can definitely see a marked change in her character and she grows as a person.

Because of the romance or her natural character development? I haven't done the Miranda romance so I'm genuinely asking. Do you think her character growth enabled the romance or that the romance enabled her character growth? Or a little of both?

I think the best romances are ones in which character flaws are mitigated or alleviated by the other character. That's part of the reason that I like the Tali romance so much. She's a terrible leader, he's a great one. She's insecure, he knows exactly what he wants to do. On the other hand, he's way too serious and she grounds him, through humor or other means. I also see Paragon Shepard as someone who's conscious of his iconic status in the universe and the pressure to uphold this. It's his own mask that serves as a disconnect with virtually everyone else in his life save his closest friends. Tali knows better than anyone the sense of isolation that comes from being unable to show your true self.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 30 mai 2013 - 03:39 .

[Iakus]

Lizardviking wrote...

The trust issues of the VS just comes off as paranoid and delusional if Shepard blew up the base.

Paranoid, perhaps, but certainly not delusional.

I'm glad they jettisoned all that "traitor" garbage from Horizon.  That scene was painfully bad to watch.  But on MArs, the discussion is much more reasonable.  Ash is worried that TIM is still running a long con on Shepard.  Even is Shep blew up the base, TIm may still be running a Xanatos Gambit on Shep.  Using him, even if Shepard is unaware of it.  Either through some kind of control chip or more mundane trickery.  Or worse, Shepard's personality may have been altered, to turn him into a Cerberus puppet. 

These concerns are not outside the realm of possibility in the Mass Effect universe.  As shown with the huskified troopers, Ash mentions that this is exactly the sort of thing she feared had ben done to Shepard.  Only, you know, with more care and subtlty.  She also sounded skeptical that TIM would just let Shepard take the Normandy and cut ties so easily.  Turned out she was right.  TIM tried to lock down the Normandy when Shepard "went rogue" and it was only through EDI's intervention that the attempts failed.

[CronoDragoon]

iakus wrote...
These concerns are not outside the realm of possibility in the Mass Effect universe.

Not to mention we find out Cerberus was GROWING CLONES of Shepard. You know, just in case.

[AresKeith]

Lizardviking wrote...

The trust issues of the VS just comes off as paranoid and delusional if Shepard blew up the base.

Exactly, if you kept the base then sure it works but if you destroyed the Base then the only time they should feel paranoid is when you see the Cerberus husk

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

iakus wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

The trust issues of the VS just comes off as paranoid and delusional if Shepard blew up the base.

Paranoid, perhaps, but certainly not delusional.

I'm glad they jettisoned all that "traitor" garbage from Horizon.  That scene was painfully bad to watch.  But on MArs, the discussion is much more reasonable.  Ash is worried that TIM is still running a long con on Shepard.  Even is Shep blew up the base, TIm may still be running a Xanatos Gambit on Shep.  Using him, even if Shepard is unaware of it.  Either through some kind of control chip or more mundane trickery.  Or worse, Shepard's personality may have been altered, to turn him into a Cerberus puppet. 

These concerns are not outside the realm of possibility in the Mass Effect universe.  As shown with the huskified troopers, Ash mentions that this is exactly the sort of thing she feared had ben done to Shepard.  Only, you know, with more care and subtlty.  She also sounded skeptical that TIM would just let Shepard take the Normandy and cut ties so easily.  Turned out she was right.  TIM tried to lock down the Normandy when Shepard "went rogue" and it was only through EDI's intervention that the attempts failed.

Except if TIM had any kind of control over Shepard, he wouldn't have let him blow up the base in the first place, plain and simple.

"EDIT"" Pure and simple"? What was I thinking?!

Modifié par Lizardviking, 30 mai 2013 - 03:42 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

CronoDragoon wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Anyway's, I also disagree with her being the most realistic romance. Well maybe not realistic, but I think Miranda's is much better for both characters as you can definitely see a marked change in her character and she grows as a person.

Because of the romance or her natural character development? I haven't done the Miranda romance so I'm genuinely asking. Do you think her character growth enabled the romance or that the romance enabled her character growth? Or a little of both?

I'd say growth enabling the romance, but it also does have a bit of even more openness later on as you progress through a relationship. She's starting to see that she can trust other people. She was never really interested in romance or attachment before, and helping her out with Oriana (as well as travelling together and coming to respect and admire each other) can lead to her starting to develop feelings for Shepard. It gives her a much more pronounced change, and other character's do comment on it. Kasumi mentions that she finds it strange how Miranda is smiling while she works now, and Liara mentions how much Shepard has changed her. She tells you in ME3 how hard it was to be away from Shepard and how worried she was about Earth. This coming from the woman who tells you that she doesn't do "attached" (in which she comments). There's no "I love you" moments but there is a sense of intimacy there that I think you just don't get with any other romance. It feels the most like real love.

Plus I'm a sucker for the defrosting ice queen trope. I prefer my women to be the icy, intelligent, competent, and hopelessly beautiful type.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Lizardviking wrote...

The trust issues of the VS just comes off as paranoid and delusional if Shepard blew up the base.

They come off as that regardless to me.

[Iakus]

Lizardviking wrote...

Except if TIM had any kind of control over Shepard, he wouldn't have let him blow up the base in the first place, plain and simple.

"EDIT"" Pure and simple"? What was I thinking?!

Unless that's what TIM wants you to think...

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

The trust issues of the VS just comes off as paranoid and delusional if Shepard blew up the base.

They come off as that regardless to me.

Well, I can buy them if Shepard saved the base because then he had done some rather Cerberus friendly actions. But if he blew up the base? Shepard had pretty thrown a spanner into Cerberus' plan and denied them a great asset.

[Iakus]

Lizardviking wrote...
Well, I can buy them if Shepard saved the base because then he had done some rather Cerberus friendly actions. But if he blew up the base? Shepard had pretty thrown a spanner into Cerberus' plan and denied them a great asset.

That's assuming the destruction of the base occured as Shepard described...

[CronoDragoon]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

 Kasumi mentions that she finds it strange how Miranda is smiling while she works now

Okay, that's just adorable.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Lizardviking wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

The trust issues of the VS just comes off as paranoid and delusional if Shepard blew up the base.

They come off as that regardless to me.

Well, I can buy them if Shepard saved the base because then he had done some rather Cerberus friendly actions. But if he blew up the base? Shepard had pretty thrown a spanner into Cerberus' plan and denied them a great asset.

Well, my Shepard is rather friendly towards Cerberus, and he still blows up the base. Overall though, he respects and admires Cerberus and their MO. Their brutality and ruthless pursuit of their goals is what is going to save the galaxy.

He considers the VS as upset that Shepard doesn't have the same view as them. Ashley I think is more upset that Shepard isn't the big alliance hero that she wants him to be. 

Kaidan, you can actually talk to him about Cerberus and how you really feel about them, at least prior to ME3 when they become indoctrinated.

Ashley is very "the alliance way/my way or the highway" and I find that absolutely disgusting.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 30 mai 2013 - 03:54 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

CronoDragoon wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

 Kasumi mentions that she finds it strange how Miranda is smiling while she works now

Okay, that's just adorable.

It is. Shepard has truly helped her grow as a person. I won't say changed because she still possesses the same overall outlook, but she's starting to see value in things that she never saw before.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

iakus wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...
Well, I can buy them if Shepard saved the base because then he had done some rather Cerberus friendly actions. But if he blew up the base? Shepard had pretty thrown a spanner into Cerberus' plan and denied them a great asset.

That's assuming the destruction of the base occured as Shepard described...

Yes, because it is not like the SB was aware of it and have proof that could confirm it. And it is not like the SB was working with the Alliance and could provide Hackett with the information needed to back Shepard up.

Oh wait...

iakus wrote...
Unless that's what TIM wants you to think...

Yes, because TIM is so smart that he was able to accurately predict that the choice to blow up the base or not would not matter since he would be able to salvage most of it regardless (despite it being in the galactic core and near a black hole), which is why he chose not to activate the hypothetical control chip in Shepard in order to prevent the base's destruction.

Modifié par Lizardviking, 30 mai 2013 - 03:57 .

[CronoDragoon]

I'm still mad at Ashley for ninja-ing me in my supposed no-romance ME1 playthrough. I was just trying to be polite listening to her poetry, dammit. Next time I'll pick the "Cry me a river" and "Bored now" options.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 30 mai 2013 - 03:58 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

CronoDragoon wrote...

I'm still mad at Ashley for ninja-ing me in my supposed no-romance ME1 playthrough. I was just trying to be polite listening to her poetry, dammit. Next time I'll pick the "Cry me a river" and "Bored now" options.

Best way to interract with her. 

[Iakus]

Lizardviking wrote...

Yes, because it is not like the SB was aware of it and have proof that could confirm it. And it is not like the SB was working with the Alliance and could provide Hackett with the information needed to back Shepard up.

Oh wait...

What proof could Liara provide?  Not saying she wouldn't if she had it, but what definitive proof could she offer besdies "It's Shepard"

iakus wrote...

Yes, because TIM is so smart that he was able to accurately predict that the choice to blow up the base or not would not matter since he would be able to salvage most of it regardless (despite it being in the galactic core and near a black hole), which is why he chose not to activate the hypothetical control chip in Shepard in order to prevent the base's destruction.

Or the base was blown up because Cerberus, using their typical safety protocols, screwed something up forcing Shepard to blow the base.

Not like that's never happened before

[Reorte]

Ash generally comes across as a bit narrow-minded and objectionable but I also think that that's largely due to her background rather than her nature, since her views seem to slowly change with time.

[CronoDragoon]

Ryzaki wrote...
People who say that probably haven't played SO with that damn Farleen shrieking in their ear. Good god if I had to hear her any longer....

Voice acting is one thing, but when you become annoyed at character tropes that crop up in every single JRPG (Mary Sue friend-since-childhood0 that's when you're in trouble. I ended up spending most of my PS2 JRPG days actively wishing for an Aeris reenactment.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 30 mai 2013 - 04:17 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

[quote]iakus wrote...

[quote]Lizardviking wrote...

Yes, because it is not like the SB was aware of it and have proof that could confirm it. And it is not like the SB was working with the Alliance and could provide Hackett with the information needed to back Shepard up.

Oh wait...[/quote]

What proof could Liara provide?  Not saying she wouldn't if she had it, but what definitive proof could she offer besdies "It's Shepard"[/quote]

During LOTSB the original SB will comment on the base decision. The SB, an independant party, knew what has happened. If the base was destroyed he says that he wants the Reaper IFF so he can salvage the remains of the facility.

"EDIT"

Okay, just checked the dialog in LOTSB again, while he does not have dialog based on the choice. The SB does say that he will use the IFF to "Salvage any remaining Collector tech", which to my still implies a degree of knowledge of the events that transpired.

[quote]iakus wrote...

Yes, because TIM is so smart that he was able to accurately predict that the choice to blow up the base or not would not matter since he would be able to salvage most of it regardless (despite it being in the galactic core and near a black hole), which is why he chose not to activate the hypothetical control chip in Shepard in order to prevent the base's destruction.
[/quote]

Or the base was blown up because Cerberus, using their typical safety protocols, screwed something up forcing Shepard to blow the base.

Not like that's never happened before [/quote]

Because its not like they would have recordings of the conversation with TIM during the choice or after it? Or actual people who were there to help testify? Granted, people have always been rather forgetful when it comes to record things in Mass Effect.

Modifié par Lizardviking, 30 mai 2013 - 04:25 .

[Iakus]

Lizardviking wrote...

During LOTSB the original SB will comment on the base decision. The SB, an independant party, knew what has happened. If the base was destroyed he says that he wants the Reaper IFF so he can salvage the remains of the facility.

Yes the Shadow Broker knew what happened.  But there's knowing something and then there's proving something. 

Because its not like they would have recordings of the conversation with TIM during the choice or after it? Or actual people who were there to help testify? Granted, people have always been rather forgetful when it comes to record things in Mass Effect.

Well as you said, recordings have always been inconsistent as to the ability to authenticate. 

And the people who can potentially testify are Joker, Chakwas, Ken, and Gabby.  Chakwas was the only one not in lockup for being a member of Cerberus.  All their words are suspect.

Modifié par iakus, 30 mai 2013 - 04:30 .