253 réponses à ce sujet

[David7204]

It would have to have been done in the main game in the first place, yeah.

To be ideal, it would require going back and tweaking things in ME 1 and ME 2.

Modifié par David7204, 27 mai 2013 - 04:21 .

[dreamgazer]

It would require making the Reapers ... well, less like the Reapers.

[FlamingBoy]

I think as fans caring about biowares financial position only serves to hurt our rights as consumers.

[David7204]

dreamgazer wrote...

It would require making the Reapers ... well, less like the Reapers.

Very slight tweaks, perhaps.

[FlamingBoy]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Lesson learned: Do not make your endgame in your second installment a suicide mission, or a spin off story, because you will have to play catch up and writing characters will be extremely difficult.

 I would agree with that, I would also add that if bioware (this includes the dragon age team) makes the player make a moral choice they must make sure that choice has a commitment of the team to have implications in the games future.


a handwave does not cut it

[AresKeith]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Lesson learned: Do not make your endgame in your second installment a suicide mission, or a spin off story, because you will have to play catch up and writing characters will be extremely difficult.

Or actually plan out your trilogy

[FlamingBoy]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

FlamingBoy wrote...

I think as fans caring about biowares financial position only serves to hurt our rights as consumers.

Well, they don't have endless pockets.

Yeah but its not our concern, hence to care about it only serves to hurt us and our rights as consumers.

[MegaSovereign]

FlamingBoy wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

FlamingBoy wrote...

I think as fans caring about biowares financial position only serves to hurt our rights as consumers.

Well, they don't have endless pockets.

Yeah but its not our concern, hence to care about it only serves to hurt us and our rights as consumers.

You don't have to care. You're not doing their taxes.

Having realistic expectations about what a game can provide you does not take any of our consumer rights away.

[FlamingBoy]

MegaSovereign wrote...

FlamingBoy wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

FlamingBoy wrote...

I think as fans caring about biowares financial position only serves to hurt our rights as consumers.

Well, they don't have endless pockets.

Yeah but its not our concern, hence to care about it only serves to hurt us and our rights as consumers.

You don't have to care. You're not doing their taxes.

Having realistic expectations about what a game can provide you does not take any of our consumer rights away.

Realistic expectations of the game are created by what bioware shows and says about the game. Hence the company is responsible on how the game is recieved.

If the game is not well recieved and a portion of the fanbase are throwing words around like "lied to" or "betrayed" it is the responsibility of the company that such feelings happened in the first place.

[Iakus]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Yea, um I don't think they've claimed that. They've said a repeated number of times that people who didn't like the endings wanted more closure. Even Casey's PR damage control statement centered on that. Whether the EC provided closure for every fan is a point of contention.

Specifically, they claimed that the EC was created to bring clarity and closure. And yes there was a lot of stuff in the original cut that simply did not make sense without the extra context that the EC provided.

You keep putting things in quotes that Bioware never said. I think you should stop because you aren't fooling me with that.

But we also recognize that some of our most passionate fans needed more closure,
more answers, and more time to say goodbye to their stories—and these comments
are equally valid.

I believe that's from the very announcement you were talking about



"One thing that really stood out for us is that we underestimated how attached people would become to the characters," 

That's from earlier this month!  Dusty Everman, at least hit closer to the mark, noting that players get invested in the outcome of their choices.  Though he does seem to think players can't handle bittersweet endings, which i think is an overgeneralization.

[Iakus]

FlamingBoy wrote...

Realistic expectations of the game are created by what bioware shows and says about the game. Hence the company is responsible on how the game is recieved.

If the game is not well recieved and a portion of the fanbase are throwing words around like "lied to" or "betrayed" it is the responsibility of the company that such feelings happened in the first place.

Indeed.

That's the thing about trust:  People believe you can deliver what you say you will deliver.

Now what's Biwoare to do?

[David7204]

They seem to be pretty open about how they screwed up some of the pre-release stuff and need to work to rebuild trust.

[chemiclord]

FlamingBoy wrote...

If the game is not well recieved and a portion of the fanbase are throwing words around like "lied to" or "betrayed" it is the responsibility of the company that such feelings happened in the first place.

To an extent.  I'm sorry, but the customer is NOT always right, and a company simply cannot be expected to try and placate anyone with their product.  Not to mention when what fans demand is not reasonable to expect.

Case in point is in this very thread.  Bioware quite clearly and repeatedly said that the EC would not add any new endings (Refuse really is just an extension of Shepard choosing not to do anything and wandering about aimlessly).

And yet this thread, complaining about another ending not being provided exists.

If you don't like what they're doing, don't support them in the future.  

[FlamingBoy]

chemiclord wrote...

FlamingBoy wrote...

If the game is not well recieved and a portion of the fanbase are throwing words around like "lied to" or "betrayed" it is the responsibility of the company that such feelings happened in the first place.

To an extent.  I'm sorry, but the customer is NOT always right, and a company simply cannot be expected to try and placate anyone with their product.  Not to mention when what fans demand is not reasonable to expect.

since you cut out relevant portions of my argument I will do the same to you, :P

When I talked about realstic implications I was talking about Pre-ME3 release. But EC is also relevant.

If you say something is going to be in your game, if you implied, if you implicated, if you suggested, if you created an expectation intentionally or unintentionally. The extent of responsibility is boundless and the company is responsible for it, that is how the game is played. This was why their was a controversy, bioware set a expectation and they threw it upon the rocks...

...and they payed for it

[dreamgazer]

iakus wrote...

FlamingBoy wrote...

Realistic expectations of the game are created by what bioware shows and says about the game. Hence the company is responsible on how the game is recieved.

If the game is not well recieved and a portion of the fanbase are throwing words around like "lied to" or "betrayed" it is the responsibility of the company that such feelings happened in the first place.

Indeed.

That's the thing about trust:  People believe you can deliver what you say you will deliver.

Now what's Biwoare to do?

Gauging by the threads on here, I suspect they'll keep on keeping on. The interest in future stories appears to still be there. 

[MegaSovereign]

iakus wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Yea, um I don't think they've claimed that. They've said a repeated number of times that people who didn't like the endings wanted more closure. Even Casey's PR damage control statement centered on that. Whether the EC provided closure for every fan is a point of contention.

Specifically, they claimed that the EC was created to bring clarity and closure. And yes there was a lot of stuff in the original cut that simply did not make sense without the extra context that the EC provided.

You keep putting things in quotes that Bioware never said. I think you should stop because you aren't fooling me with that.

But we also recognize that some of our most passionate fans needed more closure,
more answers, and more time to say goodbye to their stories—and these comments
are equally valid.

I believe that's from the very announcement you were talking about



"One thing that really stood out for us is that we underestimated how attached people would become to the characters," 

That's from earlier this month!  Dusty Everman, at least hit closer to the mark, noting that players get invested in the outcome of their choices.  Though he does seem to think players can't handle bittersweet endings, which i think is an overgeneralization.

Both those statements tie into the issue of closure.

You were saying Bioware claimed that players didn't like the ending simply because they didn't get it and or they were confused.

[FlamingBoy]

dreamgazer wrote...

iakus wrote...

FlamingBoy wrote...

Realistic expectations of the game are created by what bioware shows and says about the game. Hence the company is responsible on how the game is recieved.

If the game is not well recieved and a portion of the fanbase are throwing words around like "lied to" or "betrayed" it is the responsibility of the company that such feelings happened in the first place.

Indeed.

That's the thing about trust:  People believe you can deliver what you say you will deliver.

Now what's Biwoare to do?

Gauging by the threads on here, I suspect they'll keep on keeping on. The interest in future stories appears to still be there. 

I am also very curious to biowares future, especially with the dragon age and mass effect franchise. The PR damage is very real and there image is very much harmed.

but who knows, we will see!

[AresKeith]

dreamgazer wrote...

iakus wrote...

FlamingBoy wrote...

Realistic expectations of the game are created by what bioware shows and says about the game. Hence the company is responsible on how the game is recieved.

If the game is not well recieved and a portion of the fanbase are throwing words around like "lied to" or "betrayed" it is the responsibility of the company that such feelings happened in the first place.

Indeed.

That's the thing about trust:  People believe you can deliver what you say you will deliver.

Now what's Biwoare to do?

Gauging by the threads on here, I suspect they'll keep on keeping on. The interest in future stories appears to still be there. 

Which is what everyone is curious to see regardless

[dreamgazer]

FlamingBoy wrote...

I am also very curious to biowares future, especially with the dragon age and mass effect franchise. The PR damage is very real and there image is very much harmed.

but who knows, we will see!

Same thing happened with the Star Wars franchise and George Lucas, and folks are still getting geared up for the new trilogy.

(shrug)

[chemiclord]

FlamingBoy wrote...
since you cut out relevant portions of my argument I will do the same to you, :P

When I talked about realstic implications I was talking about Pre-ME3 release. But EC is also relevant.

If you say something is going to be in your game, if you implied, if you implicated, if you suggested, if you created an expectation intentionally or unintentionally. The extent of responsibility is boundless and the company is responsible for it, that is how the game is played. This was why their was a controversy, bioware set a expectation and they threw it upon the rocks...

...and they payed for it

I snip to avoid those horrible quote pyramids.  I assure it was not meant to cherry pick anything.

Bioware set an expectation, but there were other factors that really aren't on them at all.

When IGN mistakenly attributed "16 distinctly different endings" to ME3... was Bioware REALLY on the hook for that when fans attached like lemoras to that statement and created expectations based on it?  If someone started a thread claiming I promised everyone who posted in it a $100, should I really be held reponsible when I don't pony up?

Or when people throw Casey Hudson's "A, B, or C" statement as a lie, when if you actually read the context of the statement he wasn't promising ANYTHING of the sort?  Is Bioware really supposed to be responsible when fans (either intentionally or not) make gross and incorrect assumptions?

I would say no; and it's absurd to think ANY company should be.  The "extent of responsibility" is NOT "boundless", and it never should be.  That's ridiculous.

Modifié par chemiclord, 27 mai 2013 - 05:01 .

[FlamingBoy]

dreamgazer wrote...

FlamingBoy wrote...

I am also very curious to biowares future, especially with the dragon age and mass effect franchise. The PR damage is very real and there image is very much harmed.

but who knows, we will see!

Same thing happened with the Star Wars franchise and George Lucas, and folks are still getting geared up for the new trilogy.

(shrug)

To be fair, star wars popularity and the company finances that support it (lucas film, now disney) exceed mass effect and biowares in every possible respect.

Simply put bioware does not have the same clout in the market place to survive potential changes like star wars and disney