219 réponses à ce sujet

[ASmoothCriminalx]

On PS3 (from my experience), about 70% of Collectors games on Gold end in freezes and to a lesser extent Platinum Collector games end in freezes. If those are counted (I assume they are) then those stats are worthless.

Even if only  one or two people freeze, D/Cs/freezes lead to less players leads to wipes.

Modifié par ASmoothCriminalx, 27 mai 2013 - 09:39 .

[Dunvi]

Air Quotes wrote...

And I don't see many no rocket speedruns even by the BSN elitists vs Collectors.  

Not actually relevant. The problem with missile speedrunning collectors is mostly wave 7, which is almost entirely bombers and abominations. It might be the absolute easiest wave in a normal run (unless your teammates all go off to make sandwiches when you're using a Javelin <_<)

Modifié par Dunvi, 27 mai 2013 - 09:29 .

[Tokenusername]

Shadow of Terror wrote...

Tokenusername wrote...

Tactical application of da maths shows that success rates for all factions,across all difficulties is (with the exception of Cerberus at 24.95%) 25% (which i'm finding kind of suspisious). In the "Higher" difficulties the success rates break down to:
Reapers   - 13%
Geth          - 12.3%
Cerberus  - 8.25%
Collectors - 5.65% (Pulled heavily by the big collector fail on gold)

How did you calculate the success rate if you don't mind me asking?

I just averaged the existing statistics.

[Shadow of Terror]

Tokenusername wrote...

Shadow of Terror wrote...

Tokenusername wrote...

Tactical application of da maths shows that success rates for all factions,across all difficulties is (with the exception of Cerberus at 24.95%) 25% (which i'm finding kind of suspisious). In the "Higher" difficulties the success rates break down to:
Reapers   - 13%
Geth          - 12.3%
Cerberus  - 8.25%
Collectors - 5.65% (Pulled heavily by the big collector fail on gold)

How did you calculate the success rate if you don't mind me asking?

I just averaged the existing statistics.

Theres no current statistic to get the success rate from? Unless I'm missing something (probably)

[Tokenusername]

Air Quotes wrote...

I don't need to argue.

Truly the most powerful rebuttal. I concede to your superior skills of debate.

[Bro Namath1]

This topic is taking a weird turn and there are some mixed thoughts but I have to agree with the OP, Collectors are definitely the strongest faction. Like others have said, the Scion is basically a ravager, geth bomber, and brute all in one. The Possessed Praetorian can do a ton of damage if you get anywhere near it. The seeker swarms just take your powers away and then their version of husks (abominations and possessed abominations) will either hurt you when you kill them if you're close or completely destroy you if you're close.

I know some will just say to back away but that's the point. The Husks that show up when you play the Reapers don't penalize you by blowing up. I'm kind of surprised more people aren't agreeing with the OP.

[Dunvi]

Air Quotes wrote...

Dunvi wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

And I don't see many no rocket speedruns even by the BSN elitists vs Collectors.  

Not actually relevant. The problem with missile speedrunning collectors is mostly wave 7, which is almost entirely bombers and abominations. It might be the absolute easiest wave in a normal run (unless your teammates all go off to make sandwiches when you're using a Javelin <_<)

 

Not really talking about Platinum. Even on Gold the extraction ratio is a lot lower. 

But the quoted point was explicitly about rocket speedruns. You can't say you're not talking about that when you clearly are.

Modifié par Dunvi, 27 mai 2013 - 09:38 .

[Bro Namath1]

Also isn't talking about Platinum with enemy factions basically pointless because you fight bosses from all enemy groups? So any stats you see are basically players that are willing to play any one because on Platinum, you don't really have a choice of enemy, it's combined.

I would think Silver and Gold would be the best indications of what most players play.

[Dunvi]

Bro Namath1 wrote...

This topic is taking a weird turn and there are some mixed thoughts but I have to agree with the OP, Collectors are definitely the strongest faction. Like others have said, the Scion is basically a ravager, geth bomber, and brute all in one. The Possessed Praetorian can do a ton of damage if you get anywhere near it. The seeker swarms just take your powers away and then their version of husks (abominations and possessed abominations) will either hurt you when you kill them if you're close or completely destroy you if you're close.

I know some will just say to back away but that's the point. The Husks that show up when you play the Reapers don't penalize you by blowing up. I'm kind of surprised more people aren't agreeing with the OP.

I don't know about the others, but I am resisting the urge to really tear the OP apart. Do I tihnk collectors are fairly OP? Yes. There are design and implementation issues with the collectors that make them beyond a PITA.

But do the stats prove it? Absolutely not. The only thing that these stats prove, especially as quoted in this thread, is that the vast majority of people don't understand statistics, or read carefully.

[Dunvi]

Air Quotes wrote...

Dunvi wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

Dunvi wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

And I don't see many no rocket speedruns even by the BSN elitists vs Collectors.  

Not actually relevant. The problem with missile speedrunning collectors is mostly wave 7, which is almost entirely bombers and abominations. It might be the absolute easiest wave in a normal run (unless your teammates all go off to make sandwiches when you're using a Javelin <_<)

 

Not really talking about Platinum. Even on Gold the extraction ratio is a lot lower. 

But the quoted point was explicitly about rocket speedruns. You can't say you're not talking about that when you clearly are.

 

No rocket speedruns. That includes solos. There are tons of fast solos vs Reapers or Cerberus. But not the Collectors. 

That's very clearly not what the quoted point was about, but sure, fine. There are no fast solos against collectors - I actually started doing the math at some point to show that their wave budgets per DPS required to kill is somewhat off, especially when you take possession into account. Does that make them OP? No, it just means that you have to deal twice as much damage total as you do for nearly any other faction to empty a wave budget.

Again, not necessarily disagreeing with your claim that Collectors are OP. Am disagreeing with all of your "proof".

[Tokenusername]

Shadow of Terror wrote...

Tokenusername wrote...

Shadow of Terror wrote...

Tokenusername wrote...

Tactical application of da maths shows that success rates for all factions,across all difficulties is (with the exception of Cerberus at 24.95%) 25% (which i'm finding kind of suspisious). In the "Higher" difficulties the success rates break down to:
Reapers   - 13%
Geth          - 12.3%
Cerberus  - 8.25%
Collectors - 5.65% (Pulled heavily by the big collector fail on gold)

How did you calculate the success rate if you don't mind me asking?

I just averaged the existing statistics.

Theres no current statistic to get the success rate from? Unless I'm missing something (probably)

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/343/index/16654720

[Dunvi]

Air Quotes wrote...

Dunvi wrote...

Bro Namath1 wrote...

This topic is taking a weird turn and there are some mixed thoughts but I have to agree with the OP, Collectors are definitely the strongest faction. Like others have said, the Scion is basically a ravager, geth bomber, and brute all in one. The Possessed Praetorian can do a ton of damage if you get anywhere near it. The seeker swarms just take your powers away and then their version of husks (abominations and possessed abominations) will either hurt you when you kill them if you're close or completely destroy you if you're close.

I know some will just say to back away but that's the point. The Husks that show up when you play the Reapers don't penalize you by blowing up. I'm kind of surprised more people aren't agreeing with the OP.

I don't know about the others, but I am resisting the urge to really tear the OP apart. Do I tihnk collectors are fairly OP? Yes. There are design and implementation issues with the collectors that make them beyond a PITA.

But do the stats prove it? Absolutely not. The only thing that these stats prove, especially as quoted in this thread, is that the vast majority of people don't understand statistics, or read carefully.

 

LOL. 

Here's the question - why Thunderdome? Why Collectors and not Reapers or Cerberus or even Geth? 

bolded

l2read

[Tokenusername]

Air Quotes wrote...

Dunvi wrote...

Bro Namath1 wrote...

This topic is taking a weird turn and there are some mixed thoughts but I have to agree with the OP, Collectors are definitely the strongest faction. Like others have said, the Scion is basically a ravager, geth bomber, and brute all in one. The Possessed Praetorian can do a ton of damage if you get anywhere near it. The seeker swarms just take your powers away and then their version of husks (abominations and possessed abominations) will either hurt you when you kill them if you're close or completely destroy you if you're close.

I know some will just say to back away but that's the point. The Husks that show up when you play the Reapers don't penalize you by blowing up. I'm kind of surprised more people aren't agreeing with the OP.

I don't know about the others, but I am resisting the urge to really tear the OP apart. Do I tihnk collectors are fairly OP? Yes. There are design and implementation issues with the collectors that make them beyond a PITA.

But do the stats prove it? Absolutely not. The only thing that these stats prove, especially as quoted in this thread, is that the vast majority of people don't understand statistics, or read carefully.

 

LOL. 

Here's the question - why Thunderdome? Why Collectors and not Reapers or Cerberus or even Geth?

We aren't disagreeing that Collectors are OP, I personally believe they are. We're saying the the statistics don't "prove" it.

[Bro Namath1]

Dunvi wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

Dunvi wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

Dunvi wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

And I don't see many no rocket speedruns even by the BSN elitists vs Collectors.  

Not actually relevant. The problem with missile speedrunning collectors is mostly wave 7, which is almost entirely bombers and abominations. It might be the absolute easiest wave in a normal run (unless your teammates all go off to make sandwiches when you're using a Javelin <_<)

 

Not really talking about Platinum. Even on Gold the extraction ratio is a lot lower. 

But the quoted point was explicitly about rocket speedruns. You can't say you're not talking about that when you clearly are.

 

No rocket speedruns. That includes solos. There are tons of fast solos vs Reapers or Cerberus. But not the Collectors. 

That's very clearly not what the quoted point was about, but sure, fine. There are no fast solos against collectors - I actually started doing the math at some point to show that their wave budgets per DPS required to kill is somewhat off, especially when you take possession into account. Does that make them OP? No, it just means that you have to deal twice as much damage total as you do for nearly any other faction to empty a wave budget.

Again, not necessarily disagreeing with your claim that Collectors are OP. Am disagreeing with all of your "proof".

I get your point but you'll only aggravate yourself more by pulling up inconsistencies.  You at least agreed with the core of the point, which was that the Collectors are a PITA.  I'm not sure what to think of the stats, I can just judge for myself with the eye test and know the collectors suck and probably kill puppies. 

[Shadow of Terror]

Tokenusername wrote...

Shadow of Terror wrote...

Tokenusername wrote...

Shadow of Terror wrote...

Tokenusername wrote...

Tactical application of da maths shows that success rates for all factions,across all difficulties is (with the exception of Cerberus at 24.95%) 25% (which i'm finding kind of suspisious). In the "Higher" difficulties the success rates break down to:
Reapers   - 13%
Geth          - 12.3%
Cerberus  - 8.25%
Collectors - 5.65% (Pulled heavily by the big collector fail on gold)

How did you calculate the success rate if you don't mind me asking?

I just averaged the existing statistics.

Theres no current statistic to get the success rate from? Unless I'm missing something (probably)

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/343/index/16654720

I know that's where the stats are, I just don't get which ones you're using to calculate success rates, because as far as I can see, there's nothing to calculate it from.

Modifié par Shadow of Terror, 27 mai 2013 - 09:51 .

[LDStaredown]

Nowadays, I find Cerberus to be the most challenging, by far. Collectors are basically Reapers with bigger heads. They still do way too much damage, though, but at least they have cooldowns. Cerberus have ridiculous firepower in any given range.

[Dunvi]

this is why I'm not supposed to be serious about things. I always forget that normal people don't know anything about rhetoric, logic, or statistics, among other things.

never mind, don't mind me. I'm gonna go torture some pugs instead.

[Tokenusername]

Air Quotes wrote...

The statistics prove that they are the least popular on Gold and Platinum. And the only reason I can think of - it's because they are more difficult that others AND they pay the SAME and give LESS XP 

So for most people there's absolutely no point in playing against them.

The completion statistics don't reflect anything about the popularity of factions. The actual popularity statistics however show that only 5% of all games are vs. Collectors.

This actually hurts your argument because it show that completion statistics are polarized.

Modifié par Tokenusername, 27 mai 2013 - 09:59 .

[Shadow of Terror]

Air Quotes wrote...

Tokenusername wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

Dunvi wrote...

Bro Namath1 wrote...

This topic is taking a weird turn and there are some mixed thoughts but I have to agree with the OP, Collectors are definitely the strongest faction. Like others have said, the Scion is basically a ravager, geth bomber, and brute all in one. The Possessed Praetorian can do a ton of damage if you get anywhere near it. The seeker swarms just take your powers away and then their version of husks (abominations and possessed abominations) will either hurt you when you kill them if you're close or completely destroy you if you're close.

I know some will just say to back away but that's the point. The Husks that show up when you play the Reapers don't penalize you by blowing up. I'm kind of surprised more people aren't agreeing with the OP.

I don't know about the others, but I am resisting the urge to really tear the OP apart. Do I tihnk collectors are fairly OP? Yes. There are design and implementation issues with the collectors that make them beyond a PITA.

But do the stats prove it? Absolutely not. The only thing that these stats prove, especially as quoted in this thread, is that the vast majority of people don't understand statistics, or read carefully.

 

LOL. 

Here's the question - why Thunderdome? Why Collectors and not Reapers or Cerberus or even Geth?

We aren't disagreeing that Collectors are OP, I personally believe they are. We're saying the the statistics don't "prove" it.

 

The statistics prove that they are the least popular on Gold and Platinum. And the only reason I can think of - it's because they are more difficult that others AND they pay the SAME and give LESS XP 

So for most people there's absolutely no point in playing against them. 

PS3 crashes are one reason not to plat against them, the other doesn't mean they're OP, just that the normal players don't like playing against them.

A lot of non BSN players I've played with think reapers are hard, but that's because they don't know how to deal with banshees. Go on BSN, and most people say reapers are the easiest. Non BSNers won't play against collectors and reapers, but it doesn't mean they're OP.

Modifié par Shadow of Terror, 27 mai 2013 - 09:56 .