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[Silcron]

A friend of mine recently bought the mass effect trilogy, all story dlcs included and I've been discussing with her as she went along the game, the story...last friday she got ot the ending and her reaction did have anger, but anger just because she shot the catalyst for the laughs and got the refuse ending, something she did while thinking what to choose.

That's what surprised me, she tends to be critical but she didn't hate the ending, it could be just her special case but it got me thinking. She was never a fan until a couple of months ago, she never experienced the built up, the hype or paid attention to reviews, internet comments about it...so I had to ask myself, is Mass Effect 3 ending as bad as we've made it look? It clearly isn't a great ending, but that doesn't mean is horrible either.

So first the choices, what choices do we have. Trying to just think of hte choices nothing else. We can take over our enemies, this great threat. As if Luke had taken Palpatine's place to use the Empire as a force of good. Will the power corrupt the hero? Will he able to fulfill this new quest of turning an evil force to good? It leaves for an interesting aftermath. We can also get over our differences, make peace, try to leave in harmony, a very idealistic and happy victory. After so long we can shake hands and leave the past behind. We can also destroy the great threat, get rid of this evil once and for all, recovery may be hard but we've just overcome far more difficult challenges, we have our freedom. Later we can stick to our convictions, fight on our terms without accepting what their leader may say, stick to our ideals even if it costs victory.

I think those were the messages intended for the endings. Four options with none sticking out as better (as we've seen in the forums) and they're radically different. The consecuences to each possibility are great. Thinking about it having that choice, those four possibilities as your pay off for the trilogy don't sound bad at all for a game based around choices. This has been proven in the forums, for so many people saying they hate them they keep talking, discussing and arguing about those possibilities, and not angry rants of why each sucks but what can happen after, comparisons...I think that if we can look at them coldly enough we can see the choices themselves are good. Then what fails? There are four endings and curiously enough I think there are four major problems with it, I'll discuss each now. 

1.-The Catalyst.

My friend had the luck that in her first playthrough she had the Leviathan dlc, so the blow was softened for her. So many things are foreshadowed in the games yet the Catalyst, who is pretty much the puppetier behind the reapers, who should be our priority target, more important than Sovereign or Harbinger...is revealed, for it comes out of nowhere, in the last fifteen minutes. You needed some time just processing who this new character is, how important it is. It isn't a deus ex machina per se, but is so inspired by it and in a seires like this, the way we experienced it a year ago is just wrong. This brings me to my second point.

2.-The delivery.

This can truly be summed up in one word: horrible. The catalyst coming out of nowhere, the little sense things make, the plotholes created and most importantly: for what we've seen are such different and important possibilities between you have to choose, how we see them, how they are explained has as their main difference, a color. Here is where they should have gave everything they got, making four complete different ending. Maybe in refuse you'd walk back, shoot down a couple of husks on your way out, see the fleets around the galaxy fight and loose, maybe have the star map minigame in a situation you can't get out of a system and you can't keep away form reapers forever, with cutscenes teeling of this hard battle and how they loose it in between. In synthesis a more expanded funeral, see the reapers help, see how the new galaxy builds, radically different choices shoud have had radically different things to show after the choice. The catalyst if is has to be there should have been foreshadowed around the game, if anything just suspiciouns of something controlling the reapers, something planning behind them, Cerberus could have slowly introduced that idea with their investigations throughout little things in the secondary and main missions. There are many things to talk about here so I think I'll leave it here.

3.-The Climax.

Or rather, the lack of it. This was one of the major complains and for good reason. In Mass Effect 1 we had the Citadel mission, and it was a good climax for the game but there was this threat still out there. In Mass Effect 2 we had the great suicide mission as a climax and in the end we had the previous threat, this time inminent. If you've done secondary missions you have literally spent with one trilogy playthrough days (20 hours or so in ME1, same 2 with some in 3 easily makes more than 48 hours) building up this climax, this huge final mission...and there is no climax. Priority Earth hardly felt like something climatic, we didn't have a final boss fight to provide a climax, they've been building us up and then higher and higher and we're left with this void, this lack of climax. And that feeling isn't one you want your gamers to have when they experience the ending as it was. Their idea for payoff was good, the delivery horrible and the payoff should have come after a great climax, and there wasn't one.

4.-Metagaming reasons.

I bet that if I ask I can easily get many quotes of what they said they would do or wouldn't do and they didn't fulfill. Granted that some things had to be cut in development and I think all of us can agree that if Mass Effect 3 instead of being the spring's game, or at least that was what they were going for, had been the summer's game we would have had a much better game. Four or five mmoe months of development, to polish things out, to include all they wanted to include, to see if things truly work out and do something if they don't. Mass Effect 3 needed more time, time to do everything the developers wanted, time to make sure what it does it does it well, time to fulfill every statement they had made. For this lack of time the game was a let down in many aspects, while it still managed to have some truly great moments, and you could see it was good (good in the exact sense of the word, without standing out, witout being great) it didn't live up to the previous games. Mass Effect 1 and 2 were had something 3 lacked: consistency. They still have their ups and downs but they don't go that far from their main line, ME3 jumps up and down, with the lowest being the ending.

So, after all of this, I ask myself. Is the idea for ME3 ending, having to choose between those possibilities and the possibilities themselves, bad? I say that it isn't. I actually find that is a good idea, but at the same time we can't ignore all the wrong surrounding this idea, so much that it stops it from making it work. And that's in my opinion the great mistake. It may have not been the greatest idea for an ending, but the way it was treated is what has made it become what it is now. And after the Citadel dlc, after seeing that they sortof did listen, we had closure there, we had fun, it was hilarious, it was lighthearted, it was a party to say goodbye and seeing how it was done it both brings me pain and hope. Hope that if given more time to develop, if really sitting down and putting everything into it Bioware can redeem itself, it can make the next ME game make it up for what ME3 has turned out to be; but there's also the pain, pain that I can now see what they were going for, and that it wasn't that bad, it was even good, and for many reasons it was torn apart.

I don't want a better ending. I just want the high quality that brought me to this network to be brought back.

[Straw Nihilist]

[**comment deleted by moderator**]

Modifié par RaenImrahl, 28 mai 2013 - 04:21 .

[Clayless]

In answer to one of your few questions:

Silcron wrote...

is Mass Effect 3 ending as bad as we've made it look?

Noooo. The reaction to the end was probably the biggest overreaction in videogaming history. It was blown so far out of proportion it hit the stratosphere.

[Jarl Johnnie Walker]

Robosexual wrote...

In answer to one of your few questions:

Silcron wrote...

is Mass Effect 3 ending as bad as we've made it look?

Noooo. The reaction to the end was probably the biggest overreaction in videogaming history. It was blown so far out of proportion it hit the stratosphere.

[Silcron]

Robosexual wrote...

In answer to one of your few questions:

Silcron wrote...

is Mass Effect 3 ending as bad as we've made it look?

Noooo. The reaction to the end was probably the biggest overreaction in videogaming history. It was blown so far out of proportion it hit the stratosphere.

I'm not here to defend the ending and say it was great. It wasn't. Try readying past the second paragraph, I'm trying to analyze if the idea behind it was bad, and why did the ending fail so badly, because it did. All those paragraphs behind the 1,2,3,4? Those are what I think are the major reasons why the ending is so bad.

Modifié par Silcron, 27 mai 2013 - 08:45 .

[Jukaga]

I can't really say for sure, as I waited to play ME3 until it was patched and complete. I didn't spoil myself either; I watched no trailers, read no reviews and was not active in the forums. That being said, I found ME3 complete to be an awesome experience from beginning to end. Yes, there are some issues and a few poor choices in regards to some infamous cutscenes but I had none of the pre-EC ending rage, I expected something like the Catalyst due to Leviathan and had a great send-off pre-Earth with the Citadel DLC. The endings are satisfying for me from that standpoint.

So it's not really fair for me to comment, if I had played the vanilla, pre-ec, pre-leviathan, pre-citadel ME3 I may have been one of the upset people out there. But for me, the ME trilogy is unparalleled in the history of interactive storytelling and it was one hell of a ride, so much so that I keep starting new trilogy playthroughs every time I finish the game now.

[Tonymac]

Robosexual wrote...

In answer to one of your few questions:

Silcron wrote...

is Mass Effect 3 ending as bad as we've made it look?

Noooo. The reaction to the end was probably the biggest overreaction in videogaming history. It was blown so far out of proportion it hit the stratosphere.

Paint it how you like - I call the ending utter worthless garbage.  It was not inventive - it was dumb.  So the created always rebel against their creators, and the Starchild was created and rebelled against the Leviathan.  So it seeks a solution, which does not work - and has not for countless cycles.  The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, yet expecting different results. 

We have a computer that is saving us all by killing us,  THAT is the Bioware answer.  Nothing new, cool, inventive,  or fun - just errant stupidity.  This is what happens when pathetic writers are promoted without merit. 

Some people I know did not mind the ending.  They thought that Shep was going to die from the beginning.  When you watch Gladiator, are YOU Maximus?  I expected Maximus to die because he was not me and not under my control.  I was a fool who held out for hope, because I AM Shepard in my games.  I knew that Bioware would not treat me like a death row inmate  forced to walk up the steps to the gallows for his crimes.  My only crime was loving this series and trusting the people who write the stories to write a good one. 

My punishment?  The worst ending of any game or series I have ever played - bar none.  Thats not overreaction, its just my opinion.

[Pordis Shepard]

My disappointment in the ending was primarily (in retrospect) due to the vast difference between my expectations of the game and what was released as the game. I guess I was naive to expect more factual releases from their PR campaign, but I still can't understand how they could tell their fan base things that were so distorted from the truth that it was certain to ****** them off.

What did they truly hope to gain from hyping up the game so much before release? I don't think the hype about how important your past decisions would be made an ounce of difference to new players, and it seems to have alienated a significant number of loyal fans. *shrugs* Oh well. I learned to avoid pre-order of any bioware games from this.

[Mcfly616]

Meh....I won't comment on the Ending backlash.


But I can honestly say that I've seen worse endings in a great many video games. Great games even. I'm not sure people should hold videogame endings to the same standard as movies or novels.

[mumba]

Silcron wrote...

is Mass Effect 3 ending as bad as we've made it look?

Worse.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Mumba1511 wrote...

Silcron wrote...

is Mass Effect 3 ending as bad as we've made it look?

Worse.

Worse stil, it was so terrible that people only focused on it and not the game's many other flaws.

Modifié par Lizardviking, 27 mai 2013 - 09:21 .

[Clayless]

Tonymac wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

Noooo. The reaction to the end was probably the biggest overreaction in videogaming history. It was blown so far out of proportion it hit the stratosphere.

Paint it how you like - I call the ending utter worthless garbage.  It was not inventive - it was dumb.  So the created always rebel against their creators, and the Starchild was created and rebelled against the Leviathan.  So it seeks a solution, which does not work - and has not for countless cycles.  The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, yet expecting different results. 

We have a computer that is saving us all by killing us,  THAT is the Bioware answer.  Nothing new, cool, inventive,  or fun - just errant stupidity.  This is what happens when pathetic writers are promoted without merit. 

Some people I know did not mind the ending.  They thought that Shep was going to die from the beginning.  When you watch Gladiator, are YOU Maximus?  I expected Maximus to die because he was not me and not under my control.  I was a fool who held out for hope, because I AM Shepard in my games.  I knew that Bioware would not treat me like a death row inmate  forced to walk up the steps to the gallows for his crimes.  My only crime was loving this series and trusting the people who write the stories to write a good one. 

My punishment?  The worst ending of any game or series I have ever played - bar none.  Thats not overreaction, its just my opinion.

I have opinions too. So far mine haven't led to new rules being created on websites or charities, with the sole purpose of distancing themselves from my opinions.

That's what I mean by incredible overreaction. The only way to describe the events that took place, spurred on by the likes of the Retake movement, is utterly disgusting.

[mcsupersport]

With all the add-ons the Catalyst isn't horrible, like it was in the original un-moddified game. BUT saying that, it still made no sense what so ever.
1) Why did the Catalyst even bother bringing Shepard up to him....why not just let him die and have the Reapers finish the cycle?

2) Synthesis....space magic...great idea in theory...but when you think about it...can't be supported by any science current or ME based. The idea you can graft machines onto every living thing in a Galaxy at the DNA level and have it work is foolish. Where do you get that much machine parts to do the graphing, how can you even dare to think it would work on EVERYTHING in the Galaxy with the great Diversity that is present with differences in DNA, lack of it, and what machine get it?? The last bad thing about Synthesis...it doesn't fix the issue, because as soon as full synthetics are created for any reason again...you open it up to them rebelling against partial synthetics. And while you as a partial synthetic may fair better, you still will not beat full synthetic based on ME logic. And yeah, you would create full synthetics again, unless you bonded DNA onto raw materials too, like your local metal mine.

3) Colors defining the endings otherwise they are basically the same. For most this just showed a lack of caring or time in the endings. And after all Bioware's promises that there not be an ABC ending...you get Red, Blue or Green.

4) Destroy, killing Geth...why?? Geth are stated time after time, that they are software, yet they die just because. Does this mean any advanced Software is killed, thereby dooming everyone and anyone who is reliant on them, such as the Quarians, everyone in a spaceship, everyone with a bio-amp or tech implant and pretty much everyone in the "advanced" Galaxy due to all modern accessories shutting down. No it was because the Geth had Reaper upgrades...but still how does a power pulse change or know the difference between a Reaper bit of Code and a human bit of code?? No, Bioware just put this in to make it a hard choice ....just because they could...or they forgot their own lore.

5) How does getting your body fried in an electrical conduit get you in control of the Reapers?? I could see if you Collector tube and was slushed...but grabbing 1 million volts??

6) Abrupt ending and lack of what happens after you make a choice...somewhat fixed by the EC.

7)Bringing back a conflict solved in the minds of most players during the Geth Conflict for a bunch of players. You have peace with the Geth...you have Organics defeating the Synthetics, or you have Synthetics taking their place in a Galaxy as a full member. This means problem solved for this idea of a conflict in the game, then all of a sudden, it is brought back at the drop of a hat, in the last 15 min of the game as the central conflict you have been facing for 50 hours or so.....and without the Leviathian DLC has ZERO forshadowing that it is coming.

Modifié par mcsupersport, 27 mai 2013 - 09:34 .

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

tbh I'm sure your friends expectations were not at the level peoples were when ME3 was released, I'm sure she has read plenty of articles and forum posts saying how bad it was and she also played the ending DLC which was alot more palatable then the original. The Citadel DLC also makes the end alot more bearable. But it still doesn't change the fact that the whole overarching narrative was flawed and the endings where rubbish.

[N7 Shadow 90]

Robosexual wrote...

In answer to one of your few questions:

Silcron wrote...

is Mass Effect 3 ending as bad as we've made it look?

Noooo. The reaction to the end was probably the biggest overreaction in videogaming history. It was blown so far out of proportion it hit the stratosphere.

I agree.

[Iakus]

Mumba1511 wrote...

Silcron wrote...

is Mass Effect 3 ending as bad as we've made it look?

Worse.

[Jadebaby]

Lizardviking wrote...

Mumba1511 wrote...

Silcron wrote...

is Mass Effect 3 ending as bad as we've made it look?

Worse.

Worse stil, it was so terrible that people only focused on it and not the game's many other flaws.

It was bad, and it did fail.

I know so many people who liked, even loved Mass Effect, and I ask them if they still play it and 95% of them say that they don't like Mass Effect anymore after the 3rd one and it's ending.

I'm even still meeting people who used to love it but now hate it. Due to me having the word "asari" in my Gamertag and playing a LOT of online Multiplayer. I ocassionally get messages about Mass Effect and "how can I still like it after 3?"

That's why I put the fact I have MEHEM in my bio. It fixes the biggest issue. And all the others throughout the rest of the game I can ignore.

[thehomeworld]

Your friend OP also got the extended dlc ending which is an improvement on the endings. If she'd played the endings without that extended cut add ins she might've had a different reaction. Most people complained first about it being highly confusing in terms of what and where. The Normandy magically got crewmen is shouldn't have had it magically got the people whom you took with you to the beam it's running away with no context as to why, the mass relays blow up some took this as it wasn't necessary other took it as you just supernova everything, they also complained about how similar the ending animations were they were too similar nearly clones of one another so inreality while the game stated you had 3 endings you really only had 1.

The EC DLC ending has fixed alot of those issues while it doesn't make it perfect nor constant with the lore of the game still it at least tries to plug in key issues expressed we now know there was an order to flee, we now can see distinct differences in the endings, we now have something of a post reaper war epilogue, we understand more why the relays had to blow up so your friend got the context issue ending I think she might've had a different opinion if she was exposed to the context-less ending first even if you told her to watch it now on youtube she knows the context provided by the EC DLC so she's going to not have much issue with it.

[Jadebaby]

Pre-EC was better than post.

[spirosz]

It's poorly executed, but I would still call out certain people for overreaction and unrealistic expectations.

[Han Shot First]

It could be that she didn't hate the endings because her first experience was with the Extended Cut installed. A great many people hated the original endings, but were at least okay with the Extended Cut.

Or it could just be that her preferences are different from most others who played through the game. While the original endings certainly got a lot of hate, there was always a minority that liked them. Different people sometimes have different opinions.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Jadebaby wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Mumba1511 wrote...

Silcron wrote...

is Mass Effect 3 ending as bad as we've made it look?

Worse.

Worse stil, it was so terrible that people only focused on it and not the game's many other flaws.

It was bad, and it did fail.

I know so many people who liked, even loved Mass Effect, and I ask them if they still play it and 95% of them say that they don't like Mass Effect anymore after the 3rd one and it's ending.

I'm even still meeting people who used to love it but now hate it. Due to me having the word "asari" in my Gamertag and playing a LOT of online Multiplayer. I ocassionally get messages about Mass Effect and "how can I still like it after 3?"

That's why I put the fact I have MEHEM in my bio. It fixes the biggest issue. And all the others throughout the rest of the game I can ignore.

The ending is a big issue, but even if it was fixed the franchise would still be damaged.

[Sashimi_taco]

Your friend doesn't not have the emotional investment that many fans had with the characters, and she didn't see the original endings. She probably saw the pre EC endings.

I spent 5 years doing play through after play through, hoping and wondering for what the ending will bring. Playing the games for the first time over a few months makes you care less than someone who played the game for 5 years.

[spirosz]

Sashimi_taco wrote...

Your friend doesn't not have the emotional investment that many fans had with the characters, and she didn't see the original endings. She probably saw the pre EC endings.

I spent 5 years doing play through after play through, hoping and wondering for what the ending will bring. Playing the games for the first time over a few months makes you care less than someone who played the game for 5 years.

Their perspective isn't any less valid than your perspective though.  Though I understand what your saying.  

[Jadebaby]

@OP, above all else, I would say it's because she only played through the game once. Mass Effect1 and 2's gigantic replayability makes it so you have to play through the game a couple of times in different ways to understand what it's all about.