267 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

Meaning that if you play a few times, you think that there's always a way to get out of a moral dilemma?

[Tonymac]

Robosexual wrote...

Tonymac wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

Noooo. The reaction to the end was probably the biggest overreaction in videogaming history. It was blown so far out of proportion it hit the stratosphere.

Paint it how you like - I call the ending utter worthless garbage.  It was not inventive - it was dumb.  So the created always rebel against their creators, and the Starchild was created and rebelled against the Leviathan.  So it seeks a solution, which does not work - and has not for countless cycles.  The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, yet expecting different results. 

We have a computer that is saving us all by killing us,  THAT is the Bioware answer.  Nothing new, cool, inventive,  or fun - just errant stupidity.  This is what happens when pathetic writers are promoted without merit. 

Some people I know did not mind the ending.  They thought that Shep was going to die from the beginning.  When you watch Gladiator, are YOU Maximus?  I expected Maximus to die because he was not me and not under my control.  I was a fool who held out for hope, because I AM Shepard in my games.  I knew that Bioware would not treat me like a death row inmate  forced to walk up the steps to the gallows for his crimes.  My only crime was loving this series and trusting the people who write the stories to write a good one. 

My punishment?  The worst ending of any game or series I have ever played - bar none.  Thats not overreaction, its just my opinion.

I have opinions too. So far mine haven't led to new rules being created on websites or charities, with the sole purpose of distancing themselves from my opinions.

That's what I mean by incredible overreaction. The only way to describe the events that took place, spurred on by the likes of the Retake movement, is utterly disgusting.

I get you, Robosexual.  A lot of charity, political rally, and event organizers have to distance themselves from the beliefs of all of the attendees.   This may have been something similair with the Retake movement or the charities that Retake was donating to in order to give themselves a bigger voice.  Its like a kind of lobbying, I guess.

Some game companies have re-done their endings, based on fan reaction.  Bioware put in a good effort there with the Extended cut.  I have to give them that - EC was a great effort on their part to give a little more closure.

I think that Bioware missed the mark on the endings.  Plain and simple.  A lot of people do - to varying degrees, mind you.  What a lot of us fail to see is that fans would not have gone as far as they did if they didn't have the passion and love of the game to do so.  Its not really, "I hate Bioware, the company sucks - wah sniffle wah".  Its more of a case where you have to point out to them HOW disappointing that tripe was. 

You could say that people went so far as to yell REALLY loudly, and get downright rude with Bioware.  Some have made fools of themselves.  I remember the boards when ME3 first came out.  A lot of people were out of hand and defied Bioware to delete their accounts.  They were less than polite - I recall a lot of those posts.  I guess they believed the endings were so bad that it was time to call it quits.  I can't say I blame them.

Long story short, don't mistake some rankle for passion of the game and the desire to reach out to Bioware and give them their 2 cents worth.  Yes, I get the endings are what they are - but that does not make them adequate in my opinion.   The Retake movement at one time had a lot of people trying to be heard - and that should count for something. 

[Interloper]

Robosexual wrote...

In answer to one of your few questions:

Silcron wrote...

is Mass Effect 3 ending as bad as we've made it look?

Noooo. The reaction to the end was probably the biggest overreaction in videogaming history. It was blown so far out of proportion it hit the stratosphere.

 The point is the quality of writing was just so atrocious and defunct that it justifiably irritated people who paid alot of money for the game. Moreover, I'm betting many people even paid alot for all the multiplayer crap like Spectre packs and whatever just to get a better ending, and in the end, all the endings suck anyway. It was just an excuse to bleed their players dry and that's what annoyed the Bioware fanbase...the fact that a great game company became EA DLC minions, having to exploit their players rather than dealing with them in a fair manner.

It wasn't just the ending, it was the:
i)autodialogue
ii)the terrible writing
iii)the lack of a climax
iv)the endless fetch sidequests
v)cool Prothean squadmate who was evidently part of the game before being packaged into yet MORE DLC
vi)glitches
vii)refusal by the developers to concede they were wrong

[frostajulie]

Tonymac wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

In answer to one of your few questions:

Silcron wrote...

is Mass Effect 3 ending as bad as we've made it look?

Noooo. The reaction to the end was probably the biggest overreaction in videogaming history. It was blown so far out of proportion it hit the stratosphere.

Paint it how you like - I call the ending utter worthless garbage.  It was not inventive - it was dumb.  So the created always rebel against their creators, and the Starchild was created and rebelled against the Leviathan.  So it seeks a solution, which does not work - and has not for countless cycles.  The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, yet expecting different results. 

We have a computer that is saving us all by killing us,  THAT is the Bioware answer.  Nothing new, cool, inventive,  or fun - just errant stupidity.  This is what happens when pathetic writers are promoted without merit. 

Some people I know did not mind the ending.  They thought that Shep was going to die from the beginning.  When you watch Gladiator, are YOU Maximus?  I expected Maximus to die because he was not me and not under my control.  I was a fool who held out for hope, because I AM Shepard in my games.  I knew that Bioware would not treat me like a death row inmate  forced to walk up the steps to the gallows for his crimes.  My only crime was loving this series and trusting the people who write the stories to write a good one. 

My punishment?  The worst ending of any game or series I have ever played - bar none.  Thats not overreaction, its just my opinion.

+1

[GoldFlsh]

Han Shot First wrote...

It could be that she didn't hate the endings because her first experience was with the Extended Cut installed. A great many people hated the original endings, but were at least okay with the Extended Cut.

Or it could just be that her preferences are different from most others who played through the game. While the original endings certainly got a lot of hate, there was always a minority that liked them. Different people sometimes have different opinions.

Sashimi_taco wrote...

Your friend doesn't not have the emotional investment that many fans had with the characters, and she didn't see the original endings. She probably saw the pre EC endings. 

I spent 5 years doing play through after play through, hoping and wondering for what the ending will bring. Playing the games for the first time over a few months makes you care less than someone who played the game for 5 years.

Jadebaby wrote...

@OP, above all else, I would say it's because she only played through the game once. Mass Effect1 and 2's gigantic replayability makes it so you have to play through the game a couple of times in different ways to understand what it's all about.

I can tell you right now I didn't give two cents about Mass Effect when I bought 1&2 over Christmas last year because it was on sale, I bought all the DLC as I went along (except 1's DLC because I couldn't figure out where to get my hands on it, confusing). I never paid any attention to ANY hype surrounding the games previously. 

Despite this, I had a VERY negative reaction to the endings, yes even the extended cut. The star kid had NO place in this game, and should not have been there. It only took me about a week and a half to get to the ending (not 5 years) but that didn't make the endings any better (or worse) for that matter. I became very emotionally invested in my Shepard (I've already replayed her specifically twice in all three games because I loved how she turned out) and was excited for her victory, but really the star kid twist just kicked her in the gut, it was like the reapers "let" her win instead of her overcoming an obstacle and being triumphant in the end (MEHEM fixes this). So no, I don't particularly think it has anything to do with the replaying or the time it takes to get there. I spent two weeks being depressed after I beat the game, long story short, and that was my one and only Shepard at the time.

However, I didn't have the Citadel DLC when I played it to provide the emotional closure that it did, I assume the OP's friend did. That DLC makes all the difference in the world, imo.

Picked you guys' quotes out because they were semi relevant to the idea I wanted to get across, that even though I also came into the series without any expectations, like the OPs friend, I still walked away with a bitter taste. Despite the fact that I am literally brand new to the fandom.

Modifié par GoldFlsh, 28 mai 2013 - 12:27 .

[chemiclord]

Interloper wrote...

vii)refusal by the developers to concede they were wrong

Wrong about what?

They told a story you didn't like, and composed an ending you didn't want.  That's fine.  But that doesn't mean you were right and they were wrong or vice versa.  It's just your opinion, man.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

@ OP... Your friend should have played the original ending. Now THAT was an EPIC ending. You had fought your way to the Conduit and taken it to the Citadel where you confronted The Illusive Man. You killed him, then Anderson died. Now you were waiting for the EPIC CONCLUSION...

Mein Fuhrer... All the endings are virtually identical except for the color of the explosions on your screen. You die, the relays explode, and the Normandy crashes.

Five years you waited so you could pick a color on your screen.

They kept the conversation with the Catalyst "high level". I mean why go into details when this was all you were getting anyway? Yes, it was the meaning behind those colors they kept saying. Hence, we delivered baked goods, raised money for charity, and held the line. Alas, many of those who held the line got banned, moved on, or whatever, so there are far fewer of us dissenters left.

At least the writers did the right thing and gave us the Citadel DLC so we could get some closure... and inflict the greatest insult on the ending... ignore it.

[Eterna]

Silcron wrote...

so I had to ask myself, is Mass Effect 3 ending as bad as we've made it look? 

No. I'm glad you are starting to see how overdrammatic people were.

[Nightdragon8]

For me it was the troll logic that ended up being the reason for it

The lack of an action style last boss I don't think helped much cause of you think about it during ME2 we had a boss fight then we had a choice keep the base or not but with ME3 we never had the stress relief of a boss fight the stress adrenalin kept building up and it had no where to go. Then we get semi stressful limping section having to kill husks and muradur shields then we get put into a "out of control" sequence where end up shooting Anderson and when that part is over we are met with starbrat which ends up giving us troll logic as a reason for there mass murder

I think would have preferred them saying that they do it for sport

But then they couldn't give us the Dues Ex copy endings that they gave us.

[o Ventus]

Your friend had a fundamentally different experience on their first go-around than any of us on the BSN did. That alone makes the comparison much more difficult.

[AlanC9]

o Ventus wrote...

Your friend had a fundamentally different experience on their first go-around than any of us on the BSN did. That alone makes the comparison much more difficult.

Any?

[Wolfva2]

I have to ask..
Sometimes I can't believe it,
I'm moving past the feeling,
Sometimes I can't believe it,
I'm moving past the feeling again and again and again

Sorry...the title made me think of Arcade Fire's 'The Suburbs, Cont'd" Great song.

Ok. Want to know why your friend liked the game ending when so many others didn't? Because this is an echo chamber. You see, most people tend to only post in forums when they feel extremely passionate about something (not including those of us who are regulars because we're just weird like that). But not just passionate...negatively passionate. When you like something, you're ok with it. You don't generally feel the need to tell everyone you meet. When you DON'T like something, on the other hand....well, you're liable to scream it from the rooftops. Heck, go to the bar sometime with friends. If they're in a good relationship, they probably won't say much about it. But if they're having problems...WHOO BOY! You're gonna get an earful.

So. People who feel negatively passionate tend to scream loudly. This attracts OTHERS who feel the same way. Pretty soon, you have an echo chamber where a small group of people are agreeing about how badly something sucks. Any differing point of view is dismissed out of hand. Thus, you have people making asinine comments about how 'The FANS', as if it was a homogenous group constrained by the same group-think, hate the ending. Any one who disagrees is just a blind fanboy with their heads up (insert game company's name, because this applies to EVERY. SINGLE. GAME. that ever came out) ass who shouldn't be listened to.

Then, one day, one of your friends plays the game and DOESN'T hate the game as much as you've been conditioned to believe she should. This confuses you, so you make a post on the BSN.

Btw, this is true of just about anything. Watch any editorial program on MSNBC and FOX. You'll see them saying basically the exact same thing but from different ends of the aisle. Only they are right, anyone who disagrees is an idiot, everyone agrees with them. /yawn

[NeroonWilliams]

o Ventus wrote...

Your friend had a fundamentally different experience on their first go-around than any of us on the BSN did. That alone makes the comparison much more difficult.

Yes, it does.

I had a similar experience to the OP's friend.  I first picked up ME1 2 days after ME3 launched.  By the time I got to play ME3, I had Leviathan and the EC.  I had a similar reaction to the ending in that I actually LIKED it.  I thought the choices were appropriate in their philosophical dilemma way.  I had no problem with being presented with LOGIC as conceived by the AI (I still consider Shepard to be the true Catalyst) because it was logic divorced from ethics.  I had no problem being told that organics vs. synthetics was still a problem because I wasn't naive enough to think that the "peace" I had brokered between the Geth and Quarians would hold indefinitely.

So yes, I didn't have the buildup.  I didn't have to face the RGB ending with no explanation.  I didn't have the AI pop up out of nowhere.  I also never expected to get out of the final encounter alive.  The foreshadowing of that through the much hated dream forest was pretty clear.

In the end, ME3 delivered for me.  And that makes me sadder for all of the people still shouting to the BSN that they were cheated because ME3 ended differently than they were somehow led to think it should.

[DirtyPhoenix]

spirosz wrote...

It's poorly executed, but I would still call out certain people for overreaction and unrealistic expectations.

True dat.

[SeptimusMagistos]

Silcron wrote...

I had to ask myself, is Mass Effect 3 ending as bad as we've made it look?

Nope. On the bright side all the whining about the ending brought the game to my attention in the first place, so that worked out.

Seriously, though, maybe playing ME3 for the first time with EC and especially with DLCs is a totally different experience.

[IntelligentME3Fanboy]

the mass effect ending backlash was something ridiculous i can't even describe

[Silcron]

@shotgun julia

That's one of my points. The ideas behind the endings are very different, but they are handled so poorly that we basically see almost the same thing with different colors. The ideas are different, the endings we get are almost the same thing.

To the rest. I know her experience was different. Playing the campaing without any dlc to how it is now it's very different. The point of mentioning her was to show where this comes from, what got me thinking about the endings again, what got me to write that post.

We all know why that final part was bad, the things that were bad about the game. What I wanted to do here was separate the ideas for the endings from the rest. That is what my friend's experience made me think about, and that is what the first four paragraphs are about. I don't think the ideas for the endings are bad, I can even say they are good (though I still say synthesis forgets about the science part of science-fiction) but it's the rest that tears those ideas apart, there were good ideas but the endings we get are really bad.

[TheProtheans]

The backlash was not big enough.

[Dubozz]

Mumba1511 wrote...

Silcron wrote...

is Mass Effect 3 ending as bad as we've made it look?

Worse.

[NeonFlux117]

ME3's ending is a stinker. Plan and simple. It sucks donkey d!ck. The EC was just polishing a turd. But it's still a turn. A big, fat, runny stinky turd.

[Malchat]

The ending was contrived, inconsistent and poorly executed AND the fanbase overreacted to the point of undermining valid criticism with lunacy.

These things are not mutually exclusive, no matter what pundits and developers say.

I respect Bioware for trying to salvage the situation with the DLC. Trying and coming up short is still admirable.

Still holding out for a more open and honest discussion about / postmortem of their artistic choices but that may be a few years in the future.

[Asharad Hett]

Malchat wrote...

The ending was contrived, inconsistent and poorly executed AND the fanbase overreacted to the point of undermining valid criticism with lunacy.

These things are not mutually exclusive, no matter what pundits and developers say.

I respect Bioware for trying to salvage the situation with the DLC. Trying and coming up short is still admirable.

Still holding out for a more open and honest discussion about / postmortem of their artistic choices but that may be a few years in the future.

[Linkenski]

Honestly i disliked many things in Mass Effect 3 and i think my reaction to the ending was a mix of seeing and agreeing with people's complaints on this forum, and the feeling i was left with. However, rather than feeling completely screwed over by the ending itself, i think my problem was that there were all these negatives i had about the game such as autodialogue, set-piece/michael bay moments, bad writing, bugs, side quests, cramped controls that pained me througout the game, but naturally i still wanted to love it, because it is Mass Effect so i guess i was waiting for redeeming factors.

This i did not get with the ending. I think many things before the ending was worse, although the "synthetics vs organics" theme was a gunshot that didn't hit bullseye and it did hurt the ending as a whole. Overall though, i was tied to the screen even at the Catalyst scene and i thought some of it was great because i apreciated the concept, but it didn't and couldn't have redeemed some of the narrative missteps earlier in the game, and i think that's what left me with a bad taste in my mouth more than anything else.

If you didn't know what Mass Effect was and you went and watched the ending of Mass Effect 3 right away, then you would probably think it was interesting and, i hate to say it, "deep", but the problem is that the ending felt out of place but i wouldn've actually loved to see the rest of the campaign changed so it worked with the ending we got, because i was shaking my head far more times in the actual campaign than i did in the last 10 minutes. The TIM vs Anderson confrontation was worse in my opinion, and so was the entire Earth mission (also the intro btw)... AND the Cerberus mission... AND the Citadel Coup.

PS. I always considered the war theme to be adapted to the franchise because it would seem more appealing to the masses, and that's also something i didn't like with ME3. It didn't really feel sci-fi like ME2 did. In most scenes Turians are just placeholders for what looks like WW2 infantry troopers and so are the salarians. I did not like the obvious WW2 references.

PPS. I can't believe there haven't been more people complaining over the fact that everybody refers to the Reaper invasion as a "war" far to early in the game. Just after you leave earth Shepard is like "..but if it helps us win this war." and i just think it's wrong to call it that for a couple of reasons.
1. We are at most a half hour into the game and everybody talks as if this war has been going on for months.
2. They are REAPERS. It's a very one-sided war and seeing people like Anderson staying to hold the line seems completely unbelievable. The Reapers can't be held back or beaten by ground troopers. They are impenetrable and everyone keeps acting as if this is a war of two equally strong factions. It's not "****s vs. GB Soldiers" or, to keep with the ME lore, "Turians vs. Humans", it's "Thousands of GIANT massive alien robots vs. humans and humanlike species".
Call it slaughter, ravaging, invasion, whatever. Just DON'T call it a war as if it's just another one of them.

Modifié par Linkenski, 28 mai 2013 - 11:44 .

[elrofrost]

I also just came to the series a few weeks ago. just finished it Saturday. I have all the DLC's too. I did not think my ending (I picked control) was bad at all. I thought the debate I had with the Catalyst was a little absurd considering I had met it's creators. But all in all, the game itself was stunning. And the ending, especially before meeting the Catalyst was simply amazing.

I finished saturday night and now it's tuesday and i still have an empty feeling. And I'm still thinking about the game. I've played many games and most I forget 10 seconds after I put my pc to sleep. Not this one.

In fact, I'm concerned about playing it again. Because, i didn't know; Wrex died on me in ME1; Tali, Jack and Jacob died on me in ME2. But part of me thinks that's how the game is meant to be played. It's about the relationship between you (Shepard) and the crew.The war, the Repears are background music - something to shoot at.

At least for me anyway. When I was done I had tears in my eyes (that happened a few times in the series) and en empty feeling in my stomach. That's what this game did to me.

And the ending... as I said - call it artist license. I didn't see the first ending. I wasn't too upset about picking Control. I RP'ed Shepard, it was the only solution he had that guaranteed the crew would survive. And my Shepard cared too much for his crew to choose otherwise. Trust me, in his last minutes he wasn't thinking about the galaxy. He was thinking about Kaidan, Garrus, Joker, Liara, James and the rest.

By the way I only had two options: Destroy and Control. Now I know I had a third. But my Shepard would've picked Control anyway. I never got the 4th option; Synthesis. Now if I had that choice.. that would've stopped me in my tracks to think about it.

Modifié par elrofrost, 28 mai 2013 - 05:44 .

[jkflipflopDAO]

The ending destroys the storyline of ME1 in it's entirety. None of it makes a single lick of sense when you learn that the Reaper King is the Citadel.