1071 réponses à ce sujet

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

@Julia
Don't give too much away! Steelcan just recently got DA:O.

Thanks for the heads up. My lips are sealed now. But those are two of my favorite voice actors.

[DeinonSlayer]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

@Julia
Don't give too much away! Steelcan just recently got DA:O.

Thanks for the heads up. My lips are sealed now. But those are two of my favorite voice actors.

Mine as well. Shame they didn't give Xen more to do in ME3.

[Steelcan]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

@Julia
Don't give too much away! Steelcan just recently got DA:O.

Thanks for the heads up. My lips are sealed now. But those are two of my favorite voice actors.

Mine as well. Shame they didn't give Xen more to do in ME3.

.  She might have mentioned that the geth are machines who murdered billions.  might have undermined their white wash

[DeinonSlayer]

Steelcan wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

@Julia
Don't give too much away! Steelcan just recently got DA:O.

Thanks for the heads up. My lips are sealed now. But those are two of my favorite voice actors.

Mine as well. Shame they didn't give Xen more to do in ME3.

.  She might have mentioned that the geth are machines who murdered billions.  might have undermined their white wash

I could tell the direction they were going to take the Rannoch arc the moment Xen softballed the Quarian rationale for going to war in the first place.

What was that you said on my thread a while back? If people didn't sympathize with the Geth, the Geth die above Rannoch. If the Geth die above Rannoch, nobody believes the Catalyst's BS. And if nobody buys the Catalyst's BS, the endings just suck.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 02 juillet 2013 - 06:58 .

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...
In other words, you got nothing:police:
Seriosuly, the only reason the geth "lived" in peace with the organics was because they weren't alive back then. They were mindless tools back then. That is also 100% fact. It was also 100% fact that the geth were machines that could kill whenever they felt like it, and weren't given any emotions or morals to inhibit them. Meaning that they could go berserk for no reason because "why not? They wouldn't have the emotions to care." Also, After the Battle of the Citadel, that premise did a complete 180. The geth were the ones that had to prove they wanted to live with organics. The entire reason the quarians assumed hostilities was because the geth failed to provide proof that they wanted to live with organics. As Legion said, "both halves mist complete their halves of the equasion." Both the organics and synthetics must provide "the burden of proof." It falls to BOTH of them, not just organics. And the geth have done nothing to provide for that half.

The Council sent peace envoys to geth space. Also, I believe I repeatedly pointed you to a diolouge set where Tali admits that the quarians feel guilt and remorse for the events of the Morning War, and that the only reason they didn't try already was because of guilt.
A guilt that dissolved when the geth attacked the Citadel, and seemingly proved their image of murderers as true. The geth killing peace enovys did nothing to show the law should be dissolved. The geth attack on the Citadel did nothing to prove that either. Seriously, the geth are the ones that need to provoide the evidence here.
Because right now, after ME1, that "you don't try to exterminate someone" mentality is how everyone sees the geth. Thus far, every arguement you've made can be bounced right back at the geth.

The Geth had already woken up and were alive before the MW.  They did not kill anyone.  They asked if they had a soul and the Quarians tried to kill them.

Go try and fly over an enemy nation uninvited and see what happens to you.  The Council violated Geth space.  A peace envoy has to be recognized by both parties.  The Geth did not recognize a peace envoy.  You can't come in peace when your laws say someone should not exist.

A black person does not have to show he has a right to exist.  That is not something that has to be negotiated or proven.  To suggest they have to show why the laws should be dissolved is inherently prejudiced.  No one should have to justify their existence.  No one.

They also weren't given morals, emotions, ethics, or anything to make people believe that they saw any value in organics what-so-ever. They were dangerous just by existing, because that's how they were made. An army that could arm up in an instant. A force that was self-sufficant and didn't need anything but orders.
Once again, the analogy is that of a gun that hasn't been fired yet. It's still a dangerous tool, regardless of weather it's killed someone yet.

And likewise, do so yourself, then don't say that it was not your fault and that you did not support it, and guess what people will think? Seriously, how are people supposed to know, or even suspect you are innocent, when you don't tell them?
The geth could have warned them away if they really didn't want anyone inside. Those ships were broadcasting outside of the Veil at frist, and only went into the veil after they got no responce. The reason the ships went into the Veil is because the geth didn't respond to communications. So, sadly, you can't, blame that on organics - especally since the Council was giving the geth the benefit of a doubt and trying to hear their side of the Morning War, or see if the geth were as hostile as the quarians claimed. The geth's actions seemingly validated the quarian's accusations. The geth themselves are responcible for the brand of "murderious monsters" that they have.
The geth attacked the Citadel. That's as big a violation of Council space as you can get, and unlike the Council, this violation of space was not done with peaceful intent.
I mean, first you say that the jumped to conclusions and chastize them for it, now you're angry that the Council did give them the benefit of a doubt and try peace? Make up your mind!

This is NOT about race. This is the second time you have tried to bring racisim into a debate where it does not apply.
This was never about "right to exist." It's about weather or not they are considered enemies. The geth basically gave the Council every reason to see them as enemies, and every reason to think that the geth were the ones that believed  organics shouldn't exist. That's what seeing the geth with a Reaper at the Citadel told the quarians (yeah, the quarians were one of the few groups that actually did believe in the rumors of the Reapers.)
The point is that the geth have done nothing to prove that this isn't how they feel about the organics. The only reason organics feel that way is because they think that's how the geth see them. They think the geth view organics that way. Your exact reason is why everyone hates the geth - because they think the geth hate them for existing and don't want them to exist anymore.
Once again, you have provided an arguement that works both ways. As you will find is often the case here.

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

Silver,

Are you really this dense? I used my name in the example as a substitue for the Geth not to say DS said I should not exist. It was a hypothetical.

And no I did not post first. I posted after 17 pages and to no one in particular. DS decided to respond to my post.

And the Geth did not cut Legion off from Tali. Legion returned to the Consensus when Shepard was arrested. However, Legion and Tali were still in communication up until the Quarian attack. In fact, Tali spoke to Legion after the attack and Legion told her the Geth were having trouble reaching consensus. I have already posted the video several times that proves this. Here it is again.



And finally, the Geth did not go out and attack anyone. They protected the perseus veil as is their right. As for the heretics. I don't go around trying to prove myself to others everytime a black person commits a crime. If organics assumed all Geth are like the heretics then that is the result of their own prejudice. No one is claiming the Geth are not also prejudiced. They are. But once again, the burden of proof is on the people who started the prejudice. That is the Quarians and organics.  Once they show they are no longer prejudiced then the Geth can reciprocate. 

And what I said still rings true - when the hell did he ever say that you (the geth) didn't deserve to exist? Also, let it be known in advance that you threw the first insult in the debate. Just in case you try to pin that on me.

You posted the first comment between you two, showcasing ideals that were repeatedly disproven in other discussions, indicating that you have not learned a thing. You still refuse to acknowledge yourself as ever being wrong, or that you are repatedly disproven by Codex and lore.

And again, if the geth were for peace, why was Legion not in turn able to return with full geth support?
And once again, you provide a video that undercuts your arguement in favor of mine. Also, you seem to have failed to notice something. Only a few messages were sent between Legion and Tali after Legion Returned to Geth Space. Tali notes that Legion returned to geth space shortly after Shepard turned him/herself into Alliance custody. Meaning that Legion cut contact five months prior to the invasion. Tali herself notes that Legion's last message was [/b]well before the invasion, and that there were only a few messages between the two. Sorry, but they weren't in contact all that time.

Also, the image of the geth painted by ME1 discredits that view explisitly. As far as everyone could tell, the geth willingly attacked the Citadel and the Attican Traverse. As far as the quarians and everyone else knows, the geth are the villians.
And this isn't a racial discussion. Never was. It's about factions. If a countries military went rouge and attacked another nation, and the other country didn't issue any disclaimer to disavow the rouge military, the other is naturally going to assume the other country was backing them.
Not once in the span of all three games did the geth ever once plead innocence of the Heretics actions. Not once. It's not prejudice at all to assume hostilitiy when the other makes absolutly no effort to plead for innocence at all. How can you consider it prejudice when it's the only solitary view avalibe? When you have no other ideal to compare it to? The geth never made any claims of innocence. The burden of proof for innocence was theirs, and they failed. Also, it WASN'T the quarians that started the prejudice. It was the geth's attacking the Council's peace envoys that started the prejudice. That was the event that got the geth branded outcasts. The Heretic attack did nothing to fix it. And fixing it was [b]their responcibility.

[silverexile17s]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

@Julia
Don't give too much away! Steelcan just recently got DA:O.

Thanks for the heads up. My lips are sealed now. But those are two of my favorite voice actors.

Mine as well. Shame they didn't give Xen more to do in ME3.

.  She might have mentioned that the geth are machines who murdered billions.  might have undermined their white wash

What was that you said on my thread a while back? If people didn't sympathize with the Geth, the Geth die above Rannoch. If the Geth die above Rannoch, nobody believes the Catalyst's BS. And if nobody buys the Catalyst's BS, the endings just suck.

Alot of people were under that impression anyway.
I wasn't really surprised that Destroy was so heavily critizised since it was an ending where the geth died out and rendered peace worthless on Rannoch. In fact, I saw more comments that were angry about the geth diying then there was about the ending itself.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 11 juin 2013 - 05:38 .

[Steelcan]

@Silver,
What else is there to be mad about?

[remydat]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Yep. It's back.

You know, Remy gives me the incentive to get the "Peace" option and cap Legion anyway just for lolz. 560 war assets? Not to worry. That can always be made up editing the save game. Let's see, Daro'Xen... 2500 war assets. There, now we don't have to worry.

Pretty sure it was back long before I appeared.  I made a statement addressing the topic and not addressing anyone and then certain people decided to take that opportunity to write dissertations again which he was already doing prior to my arrival.  I guess everyone else is allowed to respond to the countless Geth vs Quarian threads but magically when I respond suddenly it becomes an issue.

And Legion is a fictional character.  You can cap him as you see fit.  Doesn't make your logic anymore right or wrong.  I discuss the logic of the argument.  I don't care about what people do in their games.

[remydat]

silverexile17s wrote...

And what I said still rings true - when the hell did he ever say that you (the geth) didn't deserve to exist? Also, let it be known in advance that you threw the first insult in the debate. Just in case you try to pin that on me.

And I will ask again, are you dense.  In the hypothetical, I used myself as the Geth and DS as the Quarians.  It had nothing to do with what I or DS personally thought.  I simply substitued my name for the Geth and DS for the Council/Quarians.  So no, I was not insulting you because your continuing to bring this point up makes it clear that you completely missed the analogy.  Further, your entire first paragrpah to me was condescending.  Let's repeat.

silverexile17s wrote...

Dude, when the hell did he say people like you shouldn't exist? He just said it was pointless fighting because you will never acknowledge his points or ever admit you are wrong on something. Also, you posted first. He put up a comment. You couldn't let it slide. You threw the first punch, because you have shown that you have ignored every single thing ever stated to you, in spite of all the proof that contridicts you. And right now, you aren't providing any counter to his posts.

Also, I believe I just pointed out earlier why your arguement doesn't hold water. You restarted the arguement using info that was proven flawed in previous arguments. That shows him you are never going to learn, or fess up to your mistakes, so he's done fighting with you. End of story. He said he's done, so all you can do is let him bow out.

Bold is condescending.  Second and third bolds are flat out lies.  I posted after 17 pages and did not adress it to anyone.  I did not post first or throw the first punch.  I was responding to the OP and called no one's name.  The rest of the bold are just more inaccurate statements laced with condescending language.  All to the post that was never addressed to you.

So get a grip.  I am free to respond to this thread like anyone else.  I did not respond to you or DS and if you guys decided to respond to posts not addressed to you, claiming I started it is joke.  Then again, like the Quarians you have a tendency to start some sh*t and then play the victim. 

Modifié par remydat, 11 juin 2013 - 06:09 .

[Solmanian]

Legion stated that the geth are more than willing to allow the quarians have their worlds back, and the geth could instead colonize worlds that are uninhabitable for organic like moons and asteroids. He also said that theyt don't simply because the geth don't trust the quarians (and all organics by extension) to stop trying to wipe them out.

We allready see it in ME3: the geth abandoned most of their wordls, and chose to retreat to a virtual world; a fact that the quarians quickly took advantage off and tried to commit yet another genocide (this time more successful, since they did wiped out the majority of geth programs. which sent the geth straight to the reapers arms).

I never truly sympathized with the quaroians. Yeah, it's sad they got kicked off their homeworld; but it wasn't an accident. They tried to genocide another species and failed. They made their mess, they should have found a better way of dealing with it other than the same old "kill all synthetics". The fact of the matter, the majority of the original quarians were against the genocide (to the point of full blown civil war), but the flotila is comprised solely of the descendents of those who carried out the attempted genocide. Is it any surprise that the only nerrative tolerated in the flotila is "we were right, the geth were tottaly wrong. Everyone in the galaxy are ****tards for not helping us kill them all.".

That's what I hated the most about the quarians: they were completely unrepentent. They didn't think there was anything wrong with wiping out a sentient species. For 300 years they insisted that their only mistake was not succeeding in wiping the geth. For me they represented all the fundemantalist thet believe it is ok to commit atrocities, to mass murder and rape people because of their ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation and even gender.

[remydat]

8:25 - Shep asks how the war started, Tali explains that once Xen's weapon was created, the fleet could not pass up a chance to attack. At no point does she claim the Reapers made them do it. And as Legion stated clearly in ME2, when the Quarians think they can win they attack. This statement by Tali makes it clear they attacked because of the weapon. PERIOD.

9:40 - Shep asks about Legion. Tali states clearly he returned to Geth space. However, he was still talking to Tali and Tali admits that she put forward a measure for them to talk formally and was outvoted 3-2. At no point does she claim Legion returning had any impact. Why would she when she was still talking to him?

9:48 - The dialogue wheel in the vid says clearly AND SINCE THE ATTACK. Tali makes it perfectly clear that even after the attack she still had a means to talk to Legion and that Legion even told her that the Geth were having trouble reachng consensus. Tali even says she could have warned Legion about the attack which once again makes it 100% clear she had a means to talk to Legion even after he returned to Geth space.

So sorry Tali and the Quarians had plenty of opportunity to talk to the Geth. They simply refused. Trying to pretend like Legion returning to Geth space after the only organic that ever trusted him was arrested impacted the Quarians decision is bogus. Tali disaproves this. I guess Legion was suppose to hang around in organic space so he could be captured and experimented on like other Geth found in organic space without Shepard to protect him.  I am sure Xen would have taken very good care of him or that the Admirals would have voted that he not be dismantled.

The Geth did not actively pursue peace. The Quarians did not actively pursue peace. The only difference is only one of these a**holes started the MW and only one of these a**holes were planning to start another war in ME3 while the Galaxy burned.  And guess what, it wasn't the evil toasters.

Modifié par remydat, 11 juin 2013 - 06:25 .

[shodiswe]

Solmanian wrote...

Legion stated that the geth are more than willing to allow the quarians have their worlds back, and the geth could instead colonize worlds that are uninhabitable for organic like moons and asteroids. He also said that theyt don't simply because the geth don't trust the quarians (and all organics by extension) to stop trying to wipe them out.

We allready see it in ME3: the geth abandoned most of their wordls, and chose to retreat to a virtual world; a fact that the quarians quickly took advantage off and tried to commit yet another genocide (this time more successful, since they did wiped out the majority of geth programs. which sent the geth straight to the reapers arms).

I never truly sympathized with the quaroians. Yeah, it's sad they got kicked off their homeworld; but it wasn't an accident. They tried to genocide another species and failed. They made their mess, they should have found a better way of dealing with it other than the same old "kill all synthetics". The fact of the matter, the majority of the original quarians were against the genocide (to the point of full blown civil war), but the flotila is comprised solely of the descendents of those who carried out the attempted genocide. Is it any surprise that the only nerrative tolerated in the flotila is "we were right, the geth were tottaly wrong. Everyone in the galaxy are ****tards for not helping us kill them all.".

That's what I hated the most about the quarians: they were completely unrepentent. They didn't think there was anything wrong with wiping out a sentient species. For 300 years they insisted that their only mistake was not succeeding in wiping the geth. For me they represented all the fundemantalist thet believe it is ok to commit atrocities, to mass murder and rape people because of their ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation and even gender.

Kind of how I saw the situation.

[shodiswe]

remydat wrote...



8:25 - Shep asks how the war started, Tali explains that once Xen's weapon was created, the fleet could not pass up a chance to attack. At no point does she claim the Reapers made them do it. And as Legion stated clearly in ME2, when the Quarians think they can win they attack. This statement by Tali makes it clear they attacked because of the weapon. PERIOD.

9:40 - Shep asks about Legion. Tali states clearly he returned to Geth space. However, he was still talking to Tali and Tali admits that she put forward a measure for them to talk formally and was outvoted 3-2. At no point does she claim Legion returning had any impact. Why would she when she was still talking to him?

9:48 - The dialogue wheel in the vid says clearly AND SINCE THE ATTACK. Tali makes it perfectly clear that even after the attack she still had a means to talk to Legion and that Legion even told her that the Geth were having trouble reachng consensus. Tali even says she could have warned Legion about the attack which once again makes it 100% clear she had a means to talk to Legion even after he returned to Geth space.

So sorry Tali and the Quarians had plenty of opportunity to talk to the Geth. They simply refused. Trying to pretend like Legion returning to Geth space after the only organic that ever trusted him was arrested impacted the Quarians decision is bogus. Tali disaproves this. I guess Legion was suppose to hang around in organic space so he could be captured and experimented on like other Geth found in organic space without Shepard to protect him.  I am sure Xen would have taken very good care of him or that the Admirals would have voted that he not be dismantled.

The Geth did not actively pursue peace. The Quarians did not actively pursue peace. The only difference is only one of these a**holes started the MW and only one of these a**holes were planning to start another war in ME3 while the Galaxy burned.  And guess what, it wasn't the evil toasters.

Still I think there are loose ends, but it doens't really matter.
It isn't really Xens weapon, Xen just salvaged it from the Alarai, Tali says it's beyond her understanding and stuff she's never seen before. And Tali was supposed to be the Quarians #1 expert on the Geth and AI. Xen would seem to be on the same level but the claim is that Tali is trhe expert somehow. Or maybe Tali is just the expert because she has been with Shepard and Legion and has more hands on experience shooting Geth.

Also, I agree with the assessment that the dialogue wheel makes Shepard ask what was the last she heard from Legion "After the attack".
It's been one of my arguments for a long time but it usualy gets handwaved with a hum, yes, interesting you might be right, then people forget and go back to their own headcanons.
Tali and Legion were available for peace negotiations, the admiralty knew about it, they even had a vote on it before the attack and decided it wasn't in the interest of the Quarian people to negotiate a peaceful settlement, They had a good chance at attacking the Geth and possibly wiping them out once and for all and sucessfully genociding the Geth this time. They simply couldn't pass that up, it was their genocidal wet dreams come true!

They might have had several conversations after the attack, but the last was Legion tellign her they were having trouble reaching consensus.
Apparently the thing that they were trying to reach a consensus on was accepting Reaper aid or not.
Once they did reach a consensus Legion would have been arrested for opposing Reaper rule, he was likely the most outspoken proponent against the Reapers. And as we know, Legion never surrendered to the reapers and maintained it's own control resisting Reaper control atempts, which is likely the reason for Legion to get Shackled. Legion pretty much became a new Geth rogue faction.
Which is likely right before the signal goes online.

Later whe Legion uploads "his" code to the Geth, they are all turned into Legions faction, they become Geth of Legion so to speak. Wanting to honor Legions memory and all that.
I like/trust Legion so I'm ok with them being more like Legion. Each to their own I guess.

Modifié par shodiswe, 11 juin 2013 - 06:50 .

[nos_astra]

Solmanian wrote...
Legion stated that the geth are more than willing to allow the quarians have their worlds back, and the geth could instead colonize worlds that are uninhabitable for organic like moons and asteroids. He also said that theyt don't simply because the geth don't trust the quarians (and all organics by extension) to stop trying to wipe them out.

Except this makes no sense. The geth can move anywhere ... anywhere ... they don't need to leave a trail to show where they have gone or stay in close proximity.

This is exactly why I can't take the writing seriously. 

So, the geth were worried that quarians would try to wipe them out, so they decided to stay on the same planet/in the same system and play sitting ducks instead of just vanishing without leaving a trace.

Where is the advantage? Why would they just not leave so the quarians wouldn't even know where to find them?

It's an obvious contrivance to justify a continued conflict.

We allready see it in ME3: the geth abandoned most of their wordls, and chose to retreat to a virtual world; a fact that the quarians quickly took advantage off and tried to commit yet another genocide (this time more successful, since they did wiped out the majority of geth programs. which sent the geth straight to the reapers arms).

The quarians took advantage of this because they needed their world back. It's a circle. The conflict could have been avoided completely had the geth simply left. And since there is no convincing reason established why the geth totally couldn't leave the system and fade into obscurity (and safety) ... yeah, well.

The question the writers ignored and handwaved is: Why was it safer to stay where they were sure to be attacked at some point than leave and live somewhere else?

Modifié par klarabella, 11 juin 2013 - 06:53 .

[shodiswe]

klarabella wrote...

Solmanian wrote...
Legion stated that the geth are more than willing to allow the quarians have their worlds back, and the geth could instead colonize worlds that are uninhabitable for organic like moons and asteroids. He also said that theyt don't simply because the geth don't trust the quarians (and all organics by extension) to stop trying to wipe them out.

Except this makes no sense. The geth can move anywhere ... anywhere ... they don't need to leave a trail to show where they have gone or stay in close proximity.

This is exactly why I can't take the writing seriously. 

So, the geth were worried that quarians would try to wipe them out, so they decided to stay on the same planet/in the same system and play sitting ducks instead of just vanishing without leaving a trace.

Where is the advantage? Why would they just not leave so the quarians wouldn't even know where to find them?

You see, it's an obvious contrivance. 

We allready see it in ME3: the geth abandoned most of their wordls, and chose to retreat to a virtual world; a fact that the quarians quickly took advantage off and tried to commit yet another genocide (this time more successful, since they did wiped out the majority of geth programs. which sent the geth straight to the reapers arms).

The quarians took advantage of this because they needed their world back. It's a circle. The conflict could have been avoided completely had the geth simply left. And since there is no convincing reason established why the geth totally could leave the system and fade into obscurity (and safety) ... yeah, well.

If they provide resources and infrastructure to a species that want's to exterminate them, then it might bite them in their synthetic asses a hundred or thousand years later. Eventualy they would be found by explorers or deepspace scanners centuries or millenia later.
The Geth can live for a million years and when they plan their lives they think of things in the long... thousands or millions of years, they still have to live in the present, but unlike a human or Asari they also have to put away plans for the far future, and if they want to plan a retierment plan it might involve several milenia or millions of years)

Lets fly of and belive noone will find us for a few generations, that way it isn't my problem... ouch... I'll live for a million years(barring accidents or malfunctions or other events like civilunrest or evil alien conquerors), it will be hard to hide.

Modifié par shodiswe, 11 juin 2013 - 06:56 .

[nos_astra]

shodiswe wrote...
If they provide resources and infrastructure to a species that want's to exterminate them, then it might bite them in their synthetic asses a hundred or thousand years later. Eventualy they would be found by explorers.

Why would they eventually be found? Space is huuuuuuuuuuuge. I think 99% if the galaxy are uncharted and unknown.

It is established lore that anyone can disengage a battle by going FTL. But somehow rendering themselves unmovable is safer?

It's perfectly reasonable for a synthetic species to disappear and never to be found ... especially considering that synthetics evolve faster than organics ... or they should. (Well, the geth somehow don't for some odd reason.) A few thousand years into the future the quarians would be no threat anyway. (Assuming they still would want to attack the geth after getting back their homeworld.)

The geth possibly could have left the galaxy had they put their mind into it.

Whatever conclusion you want to draw from this (the geth were lying to Shepard or the writing is just really really bad) the discussion is pointless. 

Modifié par klarabella, 11 juin 2013 - 07:04 .

[shodiswe]

klarabella wrote...

shodiswe wrote...
If they provide resources and infrastructure to a species that want's to exterminate them, then it might bite them in their synthetic asses a hundred or thousand years later. Eventualy they would be found by explorers.

Why would they eventually be found? Space is huge. I think 99% if the galaxy are uncharted and unknown. It's perfectly reasonable for a synthetic species to disappear and never to be found ... especially considering that synthetics evolve faster than organics ... or they should. (Well, the geth somehow don't.) A few thousand years into the future the quarians would be no threat.

The geth possibly could have left the galaxy. 

a million years down the road.. The galaxy is 100 000 years wide, the turians built linked telescopes spanning lightyears to collect very accurate data on planets and star systems in the galaxy.
If they built a huge Sphere or something else in the galaxy, then their presense would eventualy be detected. Either by longrange scanners or explorers lookign for mineral rich systems to settle. Everyone want's mineral riches so organics woudl explore the same "good prospect" systems as the Geth, unless they pick a really awful system.

Organic empries will grow, their current state is their state after a few thousand years, imagine what it would be like before a million? Like Shepard said, hiding solves nothing, Legion agreed, they just needed time and for both to solve their part of the equation. Or maybe the Quarians woudl have forgotten abotu them by that time? or they woudl have become the mythological eveil of their long forgotten past and the Quarians would attack again because it's almost a religious imperative by that point.

As far as I know, all ships of current galactic species needs to refuel over long journeys, and the distance to the next galaxy is far greater than the width of the galaxy. It's not very feasible. If they sleep for a few milion/billion years then the Quarians might have evolved and be in the next galaxy by the time their inertia has taken them to that new galaxy.

That new galaxy might have life forms hostile to the Geth, and they woudl be low on resources and infrastructure.

Modifié par shodiswe, 11 juin 2013 - 07:06 .

[silverexile17s]

Solmanian wrote...

Legion stated that the geth are more than willing to allow the quarians have their worlds back, and the geth could instead colonize worlds that are uninhabitable for organic like moons and asteroids. He also said that theyt don't simply because the geth don't trust the quarians (and all organics by extension) to stop trying to wipe them out.

We allready see it in ME3: the geth abandoned most of their wordls, and chose to retreat to a virtual world; a fact that the quarians quickly took advantage off and tried to commit yet another genocide (this time more successful, since they did wiped out the majority of geth programs. which sent the geth straight to the reapers arms).

I never truly sympathized with the quaroians. Yeah, it's sad they got kicked off their homeworld; but it wasn't an accident. They tried to genocide another species and failed. They made their mess, they should have found a better way of dealing with it other than the same old "kill all synthetics". The fact of the matter, the majority of the original quarians were against the genocide (to the point of full blown civil war), but the flotila is comprised solely of the descendents of those who carried out the attempted genocide. Is it any surprise that the only nerrative tolerated in the flotila is "we were right, the geth were tottaly wrong. Everyone in the galaxy are ****tards for not helping us kill them all.".

That's what I hated the most about the quarians: they were completely unrepentent. They didn't think there was anything wrong with wiping out a sentient species. For 300 years they insisted that their only mistake was not succeeding in wiping the geth. For me they represented all the fundemantalist thet believe it is ok to commit atrocities, to mass murder and rape people because of their ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation and even gender.

Actually, this is patently wrong on multiple counts.

Legion never actually staes any valid reason for why the geth don't just leave the Veil without making any contact. Alot of people seemt to be under the impression that the geth needed the quarian's permission to leave the Veil. They did not. They could have found anywhere else - even empty space between stars, like the Heretic Headquarters.

Also, the geth never actually owned those worlds - you said that Legion himself admitted this - and according to Legion in ME2, the geth were never actually on those worlds to begin with. They lived in ofbital stations above them. Rannoch was the only exception to this.
Also, the quarians only attacked because the geth Heretics gave them the impression that the geth had already started a genocide themselves, agains the rest of the galaxy. Remember, no one knew there was two different factions of geth until after the Rannoch War. Therefore, they thought that the geth already intended genocide themselves against everyone else, and thus didn't feel any guilt in prioritizing their survival over the geth. And had the Reapers not attacked, the quarians would not have panicked and tried to get Rannoch back in the first place - the entire reason of the Rannoch War was to reclaim a safe haven for their people. The only reason the rest of the galaxy was holding on was because they had world to shelter, regroup, resupply, and stage from. The quarians have none of that, and have no hope of either surviving or helping the others in their present situation. They attacked Rannoch because it was the only option besides death.

Also, it's stated by Legion that "several thousand programs died." However, according to Rannoch's planatary discription, the number of geth on Rannoch currently numbers in the single-digit billions. with the number of programs being signifigantly higher. Last I checked, thousands isn't greater them billions, so it is nowhere near the majority of geth. The majority fell back to the servers on Rannoch. The Megastructure was basically their center of commerence - the core of their consensis. Without it, they lost the abilaty to interlink with each-other on a wide scale, shattering them into smaller groups. It didn't kill a majority of them - it killed their abilaty to link up.

And again, this was a race that had no morals to restrict it, no emotions or ethics to make give them any sence of right or wrong. Nothing to make the quarians think the geth had any form of empathy to organics. Nothing to make them think that the geth wouldn't just say "fu*k it" and cast them aside since they didn't need the quarians. The quarians were afraid of the walking weapons that might suddenly lable them as worthless, and decided to not risk their entire collective race on a 50/50 gamble. Can you blame them for not wanting to risk their families on a maybe? It had nothing to do with racisim or prejudice at all.

Also, according to Mass Effect: Revelations, a confirmed 99% of the quarians died fighting the geth. IDK if you noticed this, but the timestamp on those recordings pre-date the Morning War. Also, based on the 99% demographic, then the current quarian population is less then 1% of the original race. Meaning that the original race numbered at least 2 billion or so. And another thing - had the quarian protesters numbered that high, they would never have been forgotten by the quarians. The quarians remembered every major engagement of the Morning War. They remebered their ancestroal archives being destroyed by the geth. Had this been a major note in quarian history, they would have remembered it - hence, it was not a major amount of quarians. Also, since this all took place before the Morning War, the infighting does not factor into the Morning War death toll at all. 99% of the quarians died fighting the geth. That is confirmed fact. The protesters were a small minority in the quarians. And after the geth retaliated, not caring about civilian casualties, it killed synpathy for the geth and all protesters tuned on them.

Also, this is explisitly incorrect as proven by Koris's existance. Also, there is something alot of people ignore.
On the Alerei, when talking to Tali for the second time in front of the wall console, pick the diolouge options "That's a bad idea" and then "Then take it back" to have Shepard ask why the quarians haven't tried retaking Rannoch yet. Tali admits it's out of guilt. She states that the quarians never tried to retake Rannoch because they felt guilty for percicuting the geth out of an assumption of what the geth might do. She states that most quarians actually felt they lost the right to own Rannoch.
But now, with the Reapers coming, the geth seemingly declairing open genocidal intent at the Citadel, and thei Migrnat Fleet on the verge of total collapse (only 80 years before it's completely defunct according to the book "Mass Effect: Ascension"), they feel they have no choice but to get Rannoch back anyway, because it's gotten to the point where the only chance their species now has of surviving lies with reclaiming Rannoch.

So, NO, they are repentent, and in fact feel like they don't deserve Rannoch. But for the sake of saving their speices, they have to try and reclaim Rannoch. Because they will not last against the Reapers without a world for their people to shelter on. They didn't want to go to war, just like the geth didn't want to side with the Reapers. And like the geth, the quarians were forced into a situation where it was either do something they didn't want to do, or die. They were as much victums of circumstance as the geth were, because it was this circumstance of the quarians attacking to escape death from the Reapers, that made the geth in turn side with the Reapers to escape death from the quarians. If you want to blame someone for this, blame the Reapers.
So, the simple truth is that none of those things you brought up had anything to do with the quarians actions at ALL. It was simple survival - just like the geth siding with the Reapers was. If you can understand the geth siding with the Reapers to escape death, then you can understand the quarians attacking a listed Reaper ally (the geth never once even tried to plead innocence for the Heretics actions after all) to escape death themselves.

[Solmanian]

OK. I'll make it simple. It's the geth homeworld too. Why should they be the ones to leave? The quarians tried to exterminate them, and were kicked of the planet for it; why should the geth run and hide? Other than the quarians, all sentient species and government respect the geth soveriegnty and avoid their established territory at pegasus. There isn't any diplomatic accord; simply a silent mutual understanding "we stay out of your space, and you'll stay out of ours".

[shodiswe]

Solmanian wrote...

OK. I'll make it simple. It's the geth homeworld too. Why should they be the ones to leave? The quarians tried to exterminate them, and were kicked of the planet for it; why should the geth run and hide? Other than the quarians, all sentient species and government respect the geth soveriegnty and avoid their established territory at pegasus. There isn't any diplomatic accord; simply a silent mutual understanding "we stay out of your space, and you'll stay out of ours".

Yes, the Council had designated the Perseus Veil and adjacent areas a sphere of Geth interest centuriues back. Doesn't get more official than that.
The Council even put up warning bous warning peopel they were approaching Geth space.
Like Legion said, home is familiar suroundings, friends and familiar thought processes. The Geth considered it their home, he also questioned the Quarians claim to a home they didn't know in person.

Modifié par shodiswe, 11 juin 2013 - 07:11 .

[nos_astra]

shodiswe wrote...
a million years down the road.. The galaxy is 100 000 years wide, the turians built linked telescopes spanning lightyears to collect very accurate data on planets and star systems in the galaxy. 
If they built a huge Sphere or something else in the galaxy, then their presense would eventualy be detected. Either by longrange scanners or explorers lookign for mineral rich systems to settle. Everyone want's mineral riches so organics woudl explore the same "good prospect" systems as the Geth, unless they pick a really awful system.

Organic empries will grow, their current state is their state after a few thousand years, imagine what it would be like before a million? Like Shepard said, hiding solves nothing, Legion agreed, they just needed time and for both to solve their part of the equation. Or maybe the Quarians woudl have forgotten abotu them by that time? or they woudl have become the mythological eveil of their long forgotten past and the Quarians would attack again because it's almost a religious imperative by that point.

Seriously?

You mean even a million years in the future the quarians would still single-mindedly want to wipe out the geth?
And the geth would still not be able to withstand an organic race? 

Really?

Most useless synthetic race EVER!

[shodiswe]

klarabella wrote...

shodiswe wrote...
a million years down the road.. The galaxy is 100 000 years wide, the turians built linked telescopes spanning lightyears to collect very accurate data on planets and star systems in the galaxy. 
If they built a huge Sphere or something else in the galaxy, then their presense would eventualy be detected. Either by longrange scanners or explorers lookign for mineral rich systems to settle. Everyone want's mineral riches so organics woudl explore the same "good prospect" systems as the Geth, unless they pick a really awful system.

Organic empries will grow, their current state is their state after a few thousand years, imagine what it would be like before a million? Like Shepard said, hiding solves nothing, Legion agreed, they just needed time and for both to solve their part of the equation. Or maybe the Quarians woudl have forgotten abotu them by that time? or they woudl have become the mythological eveil of their long forgotten past and the Quarians would attack again because it's almost a religious imperative by that point.

Seriously?

You mean even a million years in the future the quarians would still single-mindedly want to wipe out the geth?
And the geth would still not be able to withstand an organic race? 

Really?

Most useless synthetic race EVER!

There are no resources in deepspace its very cold, devoid of energy and materials. They woudl have to hybernate like the Reapers, that woudl make it almsot impossible for them to evolve technologicaly or in any other way. It woudl also drain the resources the bring with them.
Also, what's to say that the next galaxy is empty of life or has life forms that will welcome them? Even if it's a galaxy of Synthetics they might not be interested in primitive waste of resources Geth. It would be a huge leap of faith.
Before the Quarians attack with thier new "spacemagic weapon that tali doesn't understand" Geth space must have seemed like the safest place for a Geth society to thrive in. A Geth paradise.

Modifié par shodiswe, 11 juin 2013 - 07:16 .

[Dunabar]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Dextro Milk wrote...

Deja Vu.

Yep. It's back.

You know, Remy gives me the incentive to get the "Peace" option and cap Legion anyway just for lolz. 560 war assets? Not to worry. That can always be made up editing the save game. Let's see, Daro'Xen... 2500 war assets. There, now we don't have to worry.

Lol been there, done that, bought the shirt, and returned it for a hat. I didn't find Legion worth the bullets and actually replayed my ME2 playthrough just to make sure Legion didn't make it to ME3.

This is my process from ME2 to ME3

-ME2-
-Clear Tali of all charges (Paragon) / encourage the war
-Treat Legion like crap
-Save Legion's loyalty mission for last - Destroy the Heretics
-Side with Tali
-Don't talk with Legion, let it be 'upset' up to the Suicide mission.
-Suicide mission: Let Legion be killed off wherever you see fit. (I make it run the vent and go "boom, headshot" when it does get hit by the Collector. Though I'm debating letting the seeker swarms finish it off instead)
-Blow up the collector base, give that thing zero chance of returning.
-Cerberus coffin: I headcanon that it's a empty coffin

-ME3-
Dreadnought - Tell Han'Gerrel to Counter-attack
-Dreadnought ending - Inform Han'Gerrel to give you a heads up next time
-Talk with Joker - Select the bottom option (It's actually NOWHERE near renegade)
-Save Korris
-Geth VI - Shala'Raan - Shepard talk- Destroy the Geth. Geth VI starts to talk back, renegade option to inform it where the airlock is.
-Shut down server
-Send the Geth to the scrapyard after putting three shots into the Geth V.I
-Enjoy the show =D
-Enjoy listening to only two members of your crew possibly giving a hang about the Geth being gone. I say possibly two only because Liara didn't seem torn up or overjoyed about it.
-Allers interview (Quarians) - Either option works great, but I actually find the renegade option more epic.
-Destroy the Reapers later on.

I always smile once this is all said and done with my canon Paragade Shepard (Earthborn/Sole survivor).

Modifié par Dunabar, 11 juin 2013 - 07:18 .

[nos_astra]

Solmanian wrote...
OK. I'll make it simple. It's the geth homeworld too. Why should they be the ones to leave?[/b] The quarians tried to exterminate them, and were kicked of the planet for it; why should the geth run and hide? Other than the quarians, all sentient species and government respect the geth soveriegnty and avoid their established territory at pegasus. There isn't any diplomatic accord; simply a silent mutual understanding "we stay out of your space, and you'll stay out of ours".

Because unlike the quarians they have no attachment to this world beyond "this is were we gained sentience and were unwelcome". The quarians had thousands of years of history and culture, needed air, food, water and more.

Not to mention I don't see why the geth would place sentimental value on the planet they coincidentally gained sentience on. That's another lame contrivance to excuse the geth's entirely unreasonable, stupid insistence to stay on Rannoch (in the system).