silverexile17s wrote...
Now when did I ever say that? You said it, I didn't.
But seriously, there are better ways to say "too much work to quote" or "don't feel like it."
Also, no, I wasn't the one that started that. You did with the"snippets" and snarking off with the attidute. Don't blame me for throwing the mud back at you. Stop slinging it in the first place, and we'll both be happier for it.
That's exactally what the quarians were thinking when they attacked the geth - why would they want anything to do with us, when they can just as easily kill us and take our resources for themselves? They don't gain anything by working with us comparied to just taking it themselves - and we didn't give them any morals or ethics to restrain them from such actions, because they weren't even supposed to be alive to begin with.
See? It all loops back around.
Also, no. If that;s what the Council wanted, they wouldn't have bothered with negotaiting. They would have just invaded the Veil, or supported the quarians in making a legal effort to drive them out. Instead, they gave the geth the benifit of a doubt. And got spit in the face for it. I noitice that you are sceptical of every single organic, yet take the geth at face value for everything.
Last I checked, the geth didn't need to go out of their way to make everyone see them as douchebages when they had a chance to prove they were just misunderstood. How was making themselves look like douchebags better then the alternitive? And would it have been any harder to just put up comm bouys that said "keep out. we wish to be left in peace." Or send a message over the extranet saying they just want solitude? What was so hard about any of that?
Can you at least answer that?
Yes they are! They are two halves of the exact same coin. They did not behaive differently.
Both were mostly isolationsist.
Both governened by group consensis.
Both developed an insular sociaty.
Both were considered outcasts by the galaxy, and largely due to their own actions.
Both felt heavy remorse for what they did to the other.
Both did not trust the other because of each-other's past actions.
Both did not trust their "black sheep" (Legion & Tali) enough to bank their races on their peace ideal
Both were forced into circumstances in which they had to choose either survival, or death.
Both chose survival, and did not do so out of any form of racisim or bigotry.
Both are two sides of the same coin. You can compare them - nither side is more "just" then the other. It all falls to personal prefrence. That's all.
If someone with the high potental to become a cold, efficant killer exists on every single street, block, and house in your civilization, how do you not provoke them? Especally when there is a high chance they will go off themselves anyway? Why not? They became sentiant on their own. They could decide they don't need you anyway.
That was the problem here - the quarians were basically boxed in. They didn't want to flip a coin and bet their entire race on the 50/50 chance that the emotionless, moraless, ethic-lacking geth wouldn't go balistic for one reason or another. It was a 50/50 chance. How safe would you feel betting your families lives on weather a complete stranger, with no set morals or ethics, will see you as worth a damn?
Also, those events are before the Morning War. The timestamp given by the Geth V.I. lables them as one year prior to the Morning War. And in the Morning War, they uncremiously slaughtered billions. Even aliens that had nothing to do with the conflict, like the asari wife of Erinya (an asari you meet on Ilium who hates the geth for killing her bondmate, who was on Rannoch studying quarian music).
Look, let me tell you something. If you want to say they overreaced, fine. I conceed to that - hell, I admit that even the quarians [/i]admited that they feel they percicuted the geth unfarely, and judged them too quickly based on a "maybe." Tali even tells you once that the reason the quarians didn't fight the Council to kill the geth, is because they felt so guilty that they felt they no longer deserved Rannoch. But you still can't say that their fear was wholely unreasonable. And the geth fleets attacking the galaxy made them thing that the geth had fallen past the point of no return - that they couldn't be reasoned with. If the True geth had done something to fix that, it might not have come to war.
You can say they jumped the gun, but at least acknowledge that the quarians did have justifuable reasons for being afraid in the first place.
So, fine, I'll admit it - the quarians jumped the gun with the geth. They had justifiable reasons for being afraid, but they did overreact based on the fear of what might be. I admit that. But I at least want you to understand where the quarians were coming from, and that it wasn't an unreasonable fear.
And again, the Council sending peace envoys seems to indicate the opposate. In fact, the Council only closed their ears after the geth killed those envoys. And how does killing people ruthlessly, rather then just waving them off, solve anything or is productive in any logical way? The geth's actions don't have any logic to them in this regard. It's one thing to turn someone away if they knock on your door, but shooting them dead for it? That's better then just turning them away and politely saying "no thank you"? It doesn't solve anything, and just worsens the problem you already had, and makes you even more widely hated, increasing the probibility that someone is going to retaliate and kill you. What does it solve?
How would you feel if your tools started talking? Or messing with their safety restrictions? You'd be scared because you don't know what the hell they'd want or do. What their motivations are? You think something that is alive is going to want to stay someone's tool for all eternity? No. They'd want more. The geth are self-suffiant. They gain nothing by aiding the quarians. And the mentality of "speak with guns" was what the quarians feared in the fist place, so can you really say they didn't have reason to be afraid of the geth? Following the only thing they knew - warefare and labor - was what the quarians feared would happen, explisitly. The geth didn't know anything else but base responces, so the quarians made assumptions. You can say it was jumping the gun, but you can't say there wasn't justifiable reason to be scared.
But that's my point - synthetics aren't immune to divison and brutal methods against each-other. No more then organics are. Also, the geth are a young race - the krogan weren't like that in their first 300 years of civilization either. Then came the nuclear war.
When the geth come into conflct, they aren't above using the same methods the krogan do - either forcibly destroy the other's ideology and absorb them back into yours, or kill them outright. That's no different then how the modern krogan deal with their problems. The krogan have just had more practice. This is the geth's first experence with division - and they don't act any better or different. The geth are a starting-out culture. They aren't any more or less infalible then the rest of the galaxy.
Why don't you and I both agree to that? Agreed?
Well, I was trying to be blunt about it, not vague which irritates some people.
I like my sling. I shall use it to knock down Goliath.
But the geth were in the care of the quarians, the geth were willing to surrender themselves to other quarians to save Creators. They didn't understand what was happening; the quarians were fully aware they were trying to kill the geth, which is the difference.
The Council already had their stance clear by they time they tried 'peace' tactics; A.I was [i]illegal. Why would you want to talk to someone when your very existance violates their laws? Why would you invite someone into your home, pass your front door when you know your existance is against their law? You wouldn't. The geth erred on the side of caution as the Quarians had already massively proved that organics didn't like geth.
Quarians attacked first. That's what started it all. Therefore, I don't place them on the same level. Also they had circumstances that differ from each other which caused them to react in different manners. That's why I don't place them on the same coin.
I don't give any credence to the "Quarians need Rannoch to survive" argument, so lets leave that be.
The trust issue; Quarians fault. They attacked first with no valid proof but assumptions and paranoia. Geth finally retaliated. Even 300 years later, Quarians still plot on killing/enslaving the geth. The geth at least don't actively plan the quarians murders.
Legion says in ME3 the geth believed him when he shared his memories; they also stop firing while Shepard is on Rannoch after killing the Reaper- The Quarians must be talked down. Not the geth, who stop at Legion. Even Tali on her own cannot talk down the other Admirals. The geth trust Legion. Tali must have Shepard's and Koris's backing for the other Admirals to even care what she says.
By not attacking them? It's fairly simple. Don't provoke the lethal person down the road. It would be better to at least prove you aren't a threat, that you will not harm them or try to hurt them simply for being what they are. So how about we just agree- we both have polar opinions in this regard and we aren't going to change our minds soon.
Geth couldn't tell the difference between man, women or alien species. To them, organics proved themselves hostile since their minds were so immature and young. And, ultimately, they let the quarians leave. Yes I know it was because they couldn't understand the consequences of killing a whole species, yet they let the quarians leave. The quarians would not have been so merciful.
As I said above, the Council had A.I as illegal- the geth obviously didn't think the Council wanted to talk with them in good faith. So they barred their doors. Understandable.
Yes I would be scared- but I wouldn't hurl it in a fire. I would explain why messing around with that was a bad idea. That's the difference between you and I; I would take a chance with them, you wouldn't. As you said, 50/50. We are just on a different 50 than the other.
Shockingly enough, yes I can. Though synthetics just take longer for it as they aren't prones to fits of passion as organics are.
Modifié par KiwiQuiche, 11 juin 2013 - 10:19 .
Retour en haut
. Either that or they invented a new drive that allowed them to travel at 1111 ly/day. Now that would use an enormous amount of fuel, unless they don't consume fuel at all, in which case it is 
