1071 réponses à ce sujet

[remydat]

erezike wrote...

The geth did a good job of killing the quarrians on all of their colonies and space stations. the only ones who got away where those who made it to the relay in time.

The movie you see in the the geth consensus is a cheap creation. easly fabricated even in 1995, moreso in 2186.

That's a nice story but doesn't address the question.  How many billions more need to die before you consider that trying to kill the AI instead of talking to it is perhaps an option that should be explored?  I just want to know if you guys have a number in your head that once reached makes you reconsider killing first?

[Dunabar]

remydat wrote...

Dunabar wrote...

I like it, straight to business plan. Another solution though is that we send the tree huggers to go make "peace first". Maybe with a few hundred of them being killed off regardless of having peaceful intent, they will wake up and say "Okay...they're not as friendly as we hoped."

Why would a few hundred being killed change their minds?  Apparently BILLIONS DYING when you opt for the let's kill it option didn't change you guys mind.  Speaking of which, do you guys even have a limit before you think maybe another option other than straight killing is the solution?  Like what if the Geth had exterminated the Quarians completely?  What if they killed a trillion people?  At what point do you think maybe there is a better way?

Remmy, I have one question for you.

What "great reason" did the Geth have for destroying every diplomatic ship that entered their system?

I know the Quarians are not perfect, but at least they give a ship a chance to give it's reason for approach before dropping the hammer on it.

[Erez Kristal]

Its not a number. the quarrians knows that every time they tried to make peace with the geth. the geth response was violent and unrelenting.
the last time they tried to talk with the geth they nearly got utterly wiped out.

Whenever a quarrian ship is encouantered by a geth ship. the geth responds with hostility.

and the quarrian arent the only ones who suffered from the wrath of the geth. the launched an attack on the citadel with the intent of wiping out all organic life in the galaxy a few years earlier.

legion tells a nice story about the heretics. but you didnt see any geth ships jumping to the rescue of organics in me1+me2

[Erez Kristal]

This thread is a bit over thinking it.
The geth are an hostile race. they are our enemy but they are also the enemy of our enemy(the reapers) and so the galaxy striked a treaty to destroy the reapers and try to work for a better future afterwards.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

erezike wrote...

This thread is a bit over thinking it.
The geth are an hostile race. they are our enemy but they are also the enemy of our enemy(the reapers) and so the galaxy striked a treaty to destroy the reapers and try to work for a better future afterwards.

And that's about it. The peace won't last. It's like Russia and America and Britain teaming up to lay the smack down on Germany in WWII. What happened afterward? The Cold War, nuclear arms race, indirect confrontations all around the world.

IMO it's just best to lay the smack down on them and get it over with on Rannoch while we have the chance. We don't need them to win the war, and they die in the ending anyway. This puts me in the "Heartless B****" category, but I'm just being realistic.

Javik is right. We ponder why we are here. We still search for our purpose. We wonder what lies after death. We are finite. Synthetics are immortal. Synthetics know why they were created. They know we created them, and they know we are flawed. Do not trust synthetics.

[remydat]

Dunabar wrote...

Remmy, I have one question for you.

What "great reason" did the Geth have for destroying every diplomatic ship that entered their system?

I know the Quarians are not perfect, but at least they give a ship a chance to give it's reason for approach before dropping the hammer on it.

The Geth have no reason to believe they are diplomatic.  Why should the Geth believe this when those same organics just tried to exterminate them?  Are organics known to be trustworthy when it comes to the Geth?

Further I have seen no evidence the Quarians would not fire on a Geth ship if it entered Quarian space and was approaching the flotilla.  When does this happen in the game?  Hell, the Quarians fire on a defenseless Geth ship even when an Admiral and Alliance Commander are on it.

Now you question has been answered.  Are you going to answer mine?  How many people have to die before you try talking to the Geth? 10 billion?

[remydat]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Javik is right. We ponder why we are here. We still search for our purpose. We wonder what lies after death. We are finite. Synthetics are immortal. Synthetics know why they were created. They know we created them, and they know we are flawed. Do not trust synthetics.

You do realise this sounds like organics are the problem, lol.  I mean basically, you want to kill synthetics because organics are flawed as if it is synthetics fault, lol.

[remydat]

erezike wrote...

Its not a number. the quarrians knows that every time they tried to make peace with the geth. the geth response was violent and unrelenting.
the last time they tried to talk with the geth they nearly got utterly wiped out.

Whenever a quarrian ship is encouantered by a geth ship. the geth responds with hostility.

and the quarrian arent the only ones who suffered from the wrath of the geth. the launched an attack on the citadel with the intent of wiping out all organic life in the galaxy a few years earlier.

legion tells a nice story about the heretics. but you didnt see any geth ships jumping to the rescue of organics in me1+me2

Lol, the Quarians never tried to make peace with the Geth.  The Geth asked if they had a soul and the Quarian response was to order their mass extermination.

And remind me what organic ship jumped to the rescue of the Geth during the MW or during the Quarians attack in ME3?  Why do you expect the Geth to jump to the rescue of organics who have only ever tried to exterminate them?  Enemies dont help each other.  Thats kind of the point of being enemies.  If organics wanted Geth help then they should not have made them enemies.

[Erez Kristal]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

erezike wrote...

This thread is a bit over thinking it.
The geth are an hostile race. they are our enemy but they are also the enemy of our enemy(the reapers) and so the galaxy striked a treaty to destroy the reapers and try to work for a better future afterwards.

And that's about it. The peace won't last. It's like Russia and America and Britain teaming up to lay the smack down on Germany in WWII. What happened afterward? The Cold War, nuclear arms race, indirect confrontations all around the world.

IMO it's just best to lay the smack down on them and get it over with on Rannoch while we have the chance. We don't need them to win the war, and they die in the ending anyway. This puts me in the "Heartless B****" category, but I'm just being realistic.

Javik is right. We ponder why we are here. We still search for our purpose. We wonder what lies after death. We are finite. Synthetics are immortal. Synthetics know why they were created. They know we created them, and they know we are flawed. Do not trust synthetics.

You were meta gaming, how else could you know you didnt need them to win the war, and what if you didnt have enough assets to protect the cruicible and earth got vaporized in the process.

one enemy at a time. you cant win on all angles.

[Erez Kristal]

remydat wrote...

erezike wrote...

Its not a number. the quarrians knows that every time they tried to make peace with the geth. the geth response was violent and unrelenting.
the last time they tried to talk with the geth they nearly got utterly wiped out.

Whenever a quarrian ship is encouantered by a geth ship. the geth responds with hostility.

and the quarrian arent the only ones who suffered from the wrath of the geth. the launched an attack on the citadel with the intent of wiping out all organic life in the galaxy a few years earlier.

legion tells a nice story about the heretics. but you didnt see any geth ships jumping to the rescue of organics in me1+me2

Lol, the Quarians never tried to make peace with the Geth.  The Geth asked if they had a soul and the Quarian response was to order their mass extermination.

And remind me what organic ship jumped to the rescue of the Geth during the MW or during the Quarians attack in ME3?  Why do you expect the Geth to jump to the rescue of organics who have only ever tried to exterminate them?  Enemies dont help each other.  Thats kind of the point of being enemies.  If organics wanted Geth help then they should not have made them enemies.

there were plenty of quarrians who jumped to the aid of the geth in the morning wars. even the geth have the decency to admit it.

The quarrians tried to make peace with the geth many times. but 100% of the time the geth acted in violence, dont be so naive to think the geth are peace mongers.

If they trully believed in peace they wouldnt have nearly wipe out the geth. and have left rannoch by now. instead they attack the quarrians and other races at every turn. some peaceful machines they are.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

erezike wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

erezike wrote...

This thread is a bit over thinking it.
The geth are an hostile race. they are our enemy but they are also the enemy of our enemy(the reapers) and so the galaxy striked a treaty to destroy the reapers and try to work for a better future afterwards.

And that's about it. The peace won't last. It's like Russia and America and Britain teaming up to lay the smack down on Germany in WWII. What happened afterward? The Cold War, nuclear arms race, indirect confrontations all around the world.

IMO it's just best to lay the smack down on them and get it over with on Rannoch while we have the chance. We don't need them to win the war, and they die in the ending anyway. This puts me in the "Heartless B****" category, but I'm just being realistic.

Javik is right. We ponder why we are here. We still search for our purpose. We wonder what lies after death. We are finite. Synthetics are immortal. Synthetics know why they were created. They know we created them, and they know we are flawed. Do not trust synthetics.

You were meta gaming, how else could you know you didnt need them to win the war, and what if you didnt have enough assets to protect the cruicible and earth got vaporized in the process.

one enemy at a time. you cant win on all angles.

I was? I killed the Geth my first play through. I did not look at the spoiler forums. I did not have a strategy guide. My task was to deliver the Quarian Fleet to Admiral Hackett, not the Geth Fleet. I got there, and the Quarians were attacking the Geth. My job then became to help the Quarians win the damned war as quickly as possible with as few losses as possible. It was not to figure out who was right and who was wrong. It was to deliver the Quarian Fleet to Admiral Hackett. I followed my orders and killed those Geth bosh'tets with a clear conscience. Remember Eden Prime, Noveria, Feros, Therum, The Traverse, Virmire, The Citadel, Ilos. I succeeded. It was a major victory.

Knowing I didn't need them to win came after the fact, because I found out that all the endings were the same except for the color of the explosions on your screen: you died, the relays exploded, and the Normandy crashed. Except I got this gasp of air because I played some multi-player. The endings really sucked.

[remydat]

erezike wrote...

there were plenty of quarrians who jumped to the aid of the geth in the morning wars. even the geth have the decency to admit it.

The quarrians tried to make peace with the geth many times. but 100% of the time the geth acted in violence, dont be so naive to think the geth are peace mongers.

If they trully believed in peace they wouldnt have nearly wipe out the geth. and have left rannoch by now. instead they attack the quarrians and other races at every turn. some peaceful machines they are.

And there were Geth who tried to help the Creator megaras of the world.  Did you miss that scene?  The fact is some quarians were not douchebags and some Geth wanted to help them.  Sooner or later those Quarians were silenced one way or another.

Please provide evidence of the Quarians trying to make peace many times?  I want evidence that both sides agree were attempts at peace.  Sending a ship into Geth space to gather intell and then claiming after it is blown up that it was a peace envoy is not proof.  It is propaganda.  We have no real proof of the actual true mission of those ships.  We only have what organics prone to lying to cover their a** told us.

Believing in peace does not equal being stupid.  If a terrorist shows up at my door uninvited, he is getting killed period.  Only an idiot lets him come inside so he can figure out the best way to attack while all his friends wait outside.  You know sort of like how these peace envoys aka spies decided to wander around Geth space collecting intell while their buddies sat outside Geth space with fleets ready to attack.  Of course, the Geth never let those diplomats aka spies return so the Council never felt comfortable enough to attack.

[Dunabar]

remydat wrote...

Dunabar wrote...

Remmy, I have one question for you.

What "great reason" did the Geth have for destroying every diplomatic ship that entered their system?

I know the Quarians are not perfect, but at least they give a ship a chance to give it's reason for approach before dropping the hammer on it.

The Geth have no reason to believe they are diplomatic.  Why should the Geth believe this when those same organics just tried to exterminate them?  Are organics known to be trustworthy when it comes to the Geth?

Further I have seen no evidence the Quarians would not fire on a Geth ship if it entered Quarian space and was approaching the flotilla.  When does this happen in the game?  Hell, the Quarians fire on a defenseless Geth ship even when an Admiral and Alliance Commander are on it.

Now you question has been answered.  Are you going to answer mine?  How many people have to die before you try talking to the Geth? 10 billion?

So don't trust the Geth even if you have peaceful intent, thanks Rem. You make my hate for the Geth feel even more justified. Again the Quarians may not be perfect, but they don't just hammer someone off the bat. They only fire on ships if they cannot I.D the reason for the approaching ship coming at the Migrant fleet, or a Quarian on pilgrimage informs the fleet that the ship they are on is not friendly. Now as for what I have bolded, the Geth have shown no evidence that they wouldn't fire on just anyone who entered Geth space either.

As for your question - The Morning War is in the past, that cannot be changed now. Those Quarians are long dead by now, only the Geth servers that house the original data that is dated during that time are still around. The Quarians of the past made a mistake, paid for it in blood, and had to live with the choices they made. The Quarians of today though are being punished for actions that they were not even alive to commit. Again though the Quarian people are not perfect, but even a Quarian that is the offspring of a exile can go home to their people.

Short answer: That depends on when the Geth will finally stop shooting diplomats.

[Erez Kristal]

I look at the facts, 300 years the quarrian were a well advanced society living on ranncoch and other planets. they created well advanced robots. soon afterwards almost all of them were dead out of billions a few millions manage to escape. whenever they tried to settle on one of their colonies they were attacked by the geth. the quarrian had every right to shut down their machines and make repairs so they will function properly. they failed. and once the geth understood what was going on they went on a killing spree. you may not see it now. but the geth had a plan to conquer the galaxy and destroy all organics under the pretense of self defence... they may claim and say otherwise. but you must judge them for their actions to see the truth. as shotgun said "remember Eden Prime, Noveria, Feros, Therum, The Traverse, Virmire, The Citadel, Ilos. y."

[remydat]

Dunabar wrote...

So don't trust the Geth even if you have peaceful intent, thanks Rem. You make my hate for the Geth feel even more justified. Again the Quarians may not be perfect, but they don't just hammer someone off the bat. They only fire on ships if they cannot I.D the reason for the approaching ship coming at the Migrant fleet, or a Quarian on pilgrimage informs the fleet that the ship they are on is not friendly. Now as for what I have bolded, the Geth have shown no evidence that they wouldn't fire on just anyone who entered Geth space either.

As for your question - The Morning War is in the past, that cannot be changed now. Those Quarians are long dead by now, only the Geth servers that house the original data that is dated during that time are still around. The Quarians of the past made a mistake, paid for it in blood, and had to live with the choices they made. The Quarians of today though are being punished for actions that they were not even alive to commit. Again though the Quarian people are not perfect, but even a Quarian that is the offspring of a exile can go home to their people.

Short answer: That depends on when the Geth will finally stop shooting diplomats.

They tried to kill the Geth off the bat.  Did you miss in the morning war where the Geth were being gunned down because they asked questions?  The Quarians don't fire on other organics just like I don't see the Geth firing on other synthetics.  Find me evidence of a Geth ship approaching and a Quarian not firing on it?  You can't.  What the Quarians do with other organics proves nothing.  

Plenty of people currently living today had ancestors kicked off land that those ancestors possessed 300 years ago.  None of them except a small few sit there and cry about it and act like they have more entitlement to the land than the people currently living there.  This is non-sense.  They have not been living on the land for 300 years.  They have no more right to Rannoch than I have to some place in Africa that my ancestors lived on 300 years ago.

And pretty sure the Geth did not shoot a single diplomat until the Council that sent that diplomat had a law that said they should not exist and the Quarians decided to enforce that law by trying to exterminate them.  That diplomat aka Council spy was killed because the Quarians decided to kill.  So we still arrive back at the same question.  How many have to die before you consider talking first before resorting to killing?  You keep trying to talk about the aftermath of the decision to kill the Geth.  I am asking you about the decision before a single organic was killed by the Geth.

[remydat]

erezike wrote...

I look at the facts, 300 years the quarrian were a well advanced society living on ranncoch and other planets. they created well advanced robots. soon afterwards almost all of them were dead out of billions a few millions manage to escape. whenever they tried to settle on one of their colonies they were attacked by the geth. the quarrian had every right to shut down their machines and make repairs so they will function properly. they failed. and once the geth understood what was going on they went on a killing spree. you may not see it now. but the geth had a plan to conquer the galaxy and destroy all organics under the pretense of self defence... they may claim and say otherwise. but you must judge them for their actions to see the truth. as shotgun said "remember Eden Prime, Noveria, Feros, Therum, The Traverse, Virmire, The Citadel, Ilos. y."

The facts are they tried to shut down the Geth and were logged off instead.  Those are the breaks.  Next time, perhaps try a different plan of action or be more competent in performing the task at hand.  Not sure why I should be upset because the Geth were better at the genocide game than the Quarians when the Quarians are the ones that forced the Geth to play in the first place.

Modifié par remydat, 11 juin 2013 - 08:59 .

[Erez Kristal]

They lost control of their computers which were in every quarrian house, every facility, every spaceship evety military. they were damned right to try to shut it down. who knows what may happened once it becomes self aware. oh wait...

the quarrian couldnt settle other plants because of their weak immune system. besides what will stop the geth from hunting them down once they do? the geth has been hunting the quarrian down for the last 300 years. the quarrians had many colonists which are now only giant graveyards. you think rannoch is the only graveyard? there are doezens more all around the galaxy. quarrians which posed no immediate threat to the geth who were hunted down to the last. i understand the geth viewpoint. what you need to understand is that machines do not see things the way you do. they do what is most efficent. and if it is to kill all of the quarrians and galaxy along the way they will do so. oh wait... ME1,

[KaiserShep]

Since when were the geth hunting them down for 300 years? If the geth truly wanted to wipe out the Quarians, they could have even as they tried to evacuate the planet. The Quarians would not be able to sustain their nomadic flotilla if they were contending with geth attacks all that time. We even learn that very few Quarians even have much experience with the geth at all, since they stayed behind the Perseus Veil.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 11 juin 2013 - 09:33 .

[shodiswe]

I can't think of a single instance where the Quarians wanted to make peace, maybe a radical Quarian without the support if his people, who later got bombed, shot or arrested.

Tali excluded, tali however was shut down by the Admiralty whiel working with Legion on a peaceful solution.

As a people or the Quarian leadership as a whole, they never shoewd any interestin peace or non-vilent solutions.

Modifié par shodiswe, 11 juin 2013 - 09:43 .

[remydat]

erezike wrote...

They lost control of their computers which were in every quarrian house, every facility, every spaceship evety military. they were damned right to try to shut it down. who knows what may happened once it becomes self aware. oh wait...

the quarrian couldnt settle other plants because of their weak immune system. besides what will stop the geth from hunting them down once they do? the geth has been hunting the quarrian down for the last 300 years. the quarrians had many colonists which are now only giant graveyards. you think rannoch is the only graveyard? there are doezens more all around the galaxy. quarrians which posed no immediate threat to the geth who were hunted down to the last. i understand the geth viewpoint. what you need to understand is that machines do not see things the way you do. they do what is most efficent. and if it is to kill all of the quarrians and galaxy along the way they will do so. oh wait... ME1,

The definition of stupidity - Thinking you would succeed in shutting down AI that were in every quarian house, every facitliy, every spaceship, every military.

The definition of insanity - Insisting they were damned right to try and shut them down when the end result was billions of dead quarians.

The definition of delusional - Thinking the geth wanted to hunt down the quarians when they could have exterminated them completely but let them go and when they spent 300 years sitting in their own space and made no effort to leave the Perseus Veil to hunt them down.

The definition of denial - Ignoring that when the Quarians finally stop trying to kill the Geth, the Geth go right back to serving and assisting the Quarians by helping them re-settle and rebuild Rannoch as well as helping their sh*tty immune systems re-acclimate to Rannoch.  Those evil toasters do so without getting anything in return.

[remydat]

shodiswe wrote...

I can't think of a single instance where the Quarians wanted to make peace, maybe a radical Quarian without the support if his people, who later got bombed, shot or arrested.

Tali excluded, tali however was shut down by the Admiralty whiel working with Legion on a peaceful solution.

As a people or the Quarian leadership as a whole, they never shoewd any interestin peace or non-vilent solutions.

You forgot Admiral Koris.  He is the biggest peace proponent even moreso than Tali.  Of course, the Quarian war mongers consider him a lunatic.

[shodiswe]

remydat wrote...

shodiswe wrote...

I can't think of a single instance where the Quarians wanted to make peace, maybe a radical Quarian without the support if his people, who later got bombed, shot or arrested.

Tali excluded, tali however was shut down by the Admiralty whiel working with Legion on a peaceful solution.

As a people or the Quarian leadership as a whole, they never shoewd any interestin peace or non-vilent solutions.

You forgot Admiral Koris.  He is the biggest peace proponent even moreso than Tali.  Of course, the Quarian war mongers consider him a lunatic.

He doesn't act on his own though, he's mostly a windbag even if he's a good guy who cares for his peopels safety.
He does support peace when someone else is pushing for it.

Modifié par shodiswe, 11 juin 2013 - 09:54 .

[KaiserShep]

remydat wrote...
The definition of stupidity - Thinking you would succeed in shutting down AI that were in every quarian house, every facitliy, every spaceship, every military.

This strikes me as more of an engineering flaw on their part than anything. 

[remydat]

shodiswe wrote...
He doesn't act on his own though, he's mostly a windbag even if he's a good guy who cares for his peopels safety.
He does support peace when someone else is pushing for it.

Neither does Tali though.  Both of them have no backbone which is why the Quarians stood on the brink of extinction and why they could be strong armed into strapping guns to the live ships. 

And Koris supported peace back during ME2 when Tali was still more in the War camp.  He is the only reason they had not gone to war already as in ME2, there was a vote for war that was narrowly defeated due to Koris and his faction.  The only reason war is possible in ME3 is because Xen's weapon tipped the balance in the war mongers favor because they now thought they could win. 

[remydat]

KaiserShep wrote...

This strikes me as more of an engineering flaw on their part than anything. 

That's just a nice way of saying they were stupid.  It has nothing to do with engineering and is more about common sense.  You don't provoke AI capable of creating millions of soldiers overnight when they can download and upload themselves pretty much anywhere because they are networked.  

This would be like me shutting off my individual computer to try and kill an AI capable of uploading inself onto the internet as if the internet shuts off when I shut of that computer.  It doesn't.  Unless you can destroy the servers that allow for the networking as well as the mobile platforms pretty much simulataneously, you have already lost the battle.  That is the beauty of being software which the Quarians should know.