1071 réponses à ce sujet

[KiwiQuiche]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

 Why don't the Geth leave Rannoch?

Why don't the Krogan leave Tuchanka?

Because the Council won't let them, that's why.

I think this is probably the best explanation. If the geth tried to leave Rannoch and establish a colony elsewhere, they would no doubt risk being mistaken for an invasion force. Presumably, any planet rich in resources, habitable or not, is a potential target for settlement. A geth migration would put them right into a confrontation. It certainly does not help that Sovereign rallied an army of geth to its disposal. 

From Mass Effect: Revelation (full passage):

In the aftermath of the war, the geth became a completely isolationist society. Cutting off all contact with the organic species of the galaxy, they expanded their territory into the unexplored reaches behind a vast nebulae cloud known as the Perseus Veil. Every attempt to open diplomatic channels with them failed: emissary vessels sent to open negotiations were attacked and destroyed the moment they entered geth space.

The Geth were already exploring and claiming new territory. It's stated in the Codex that less than 1% of the galaxy has been explored by organic civilization, so there is really no limit to where they could have gone. Especially considering that, as synthetics, they aren't even dependent on planets and stars (see Heretic Station). They "live in space stations; extract resources from asteroids. It is efficient."

But it says right there the Council intruded in geth space without asking first. Just because the geth didn't respond to hails doesn't mean the Council are free to walk through their front door.

Silence is not an invitation.

Maybe they felt an illogical attatchment to Rannoch? Same way Legion feels about Shepard's old armour? They know they don't need it, they just...still use it.

[Dextro Milk]

I forgot... I guess the geth found it too hard to say "We are busy, leave us alone."

But hey, I guess killing people is always the right thing to do, right geth?

[KiwiQuiche]

Dextro Milk wrote...

I forgot... I guess the geth found it too hard to say "We are busy, leave us alone."

But hey, I guess killing people is always the right thing to do, right geth?

Just because someone doesn't answer the door doesn't mean you barge in.

StreetMagic wrote...

Maybe they felt an
illogical attatchment to Rannoch? Same way Legion feels about Shepard's
old armour? They know they don't need it, they just...still use it.

Perhaps.
At the same time, one should follow Javik's advice then. Coddling
someone's petty feelings does no good. All the more reason to help the
Quarians in this war, if the only thing keeping the Geth there are
sympathies. I think the Quarians can make a better case than just
sympathy (which they have in spades too. Don't get me wrong. But there
also more tangible concerns too).

Eh, I'm still not very forgiving of the quarians for starting sh!t with the geth while the Reapers invade. Priorities much.

Modifié par KiwiQuiche, 14 juin 2013 - 03:59 .

[Dextro Milk]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Dextro Milk wrote...

I forgot... I guess the geth found it too hard to say "We are busy, leave us alone."

But hey, I guess killing people is always the right thing to do, right geth?

Just because someone doesn't answer the door doesn't mean you barge in.

Just because someone is trying to make peace talks, doesn't mean you kill them without saying a word.

[KiwiQuiche]

Dextro Milk wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Dextro Milk wrote...

I forgot... I guess the geth found it too hard to say "We are busy, leave us alone."

But hey, I guess killing people is always the right thing to do, right geth?

Just because someone doesn't answer the door doesn't mean you barge in.

Just because someone is trying to make peace talks, doesn't mean you kill them without saying a word.

I'm not saying the geth were reasonable about it, I'm just explaining why they did so.

[Steelcan]

This is still going on?

[Dextro Milk]

Steelcan wrote...

This is still going on?

Not for me anymore. I was just dropping by. I better go before Remy gets here.

[KiwiQuiche]

Steelcan wrote...

This is still going on?

It is for me. At least me and SIlver have stopped mauling each other and are properly debating things though (But I'm fairly sure some people found it entertaining ahaha. Stay classy, BSN)


EDIT: Oh fcuk you formatting

Modifié par KiwiQuiche, 14 juin 2013 - 04:05 .

[KiwiQuiche]

StreetMagic wrote...

In the end, don't get suckered into thinking any of this matters. You can't bring any of this up to the Catalyst. This is why it's better to sell Legion to Cerberus and screw over the Geth. You're destined to be an antagonist to synthetics, no matter what. Might as well go full gusto. Your efforts don't matter. It's like what Jacob said in ME2. "Doing the right thing is like pissing in dark pants. You feel warm, but no one can see it." It doesn't matter how friendly you are to the Geth. Bioware would love to fool you into thinking that 30 pages debating the political ramifications of the Geth, Krogan, or whatever is a good use of your time, but ultimately, the only good use of your time is Red, Green, or Blue.

Ugh yeah, but that's mainly to the stupid "high level" converstation we are supposed to be having with Starbrat. :I

But I find this debate a lot better than the ending ones. They get...weird after a while.

Modifié par KiwiQuiche, 14 juin 2013 - 04:07 .

[KiwiQuiche]

StreetMagic wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

In the end, don't get suckered into thinking any of this matters. You can't bring any of this up to the Catalyst. This is why it's better to sell Legion to Cerberus and screw over the Geth. You're destined to be an antagonist to synthetics, no matter what. Might as well go full gusto. Your efforts don't matter. It's like what Jacob said in ME2. "Doing the right thing is like pissing in dark pants. You feel warm, but no one can see it." It doesn't matter how friendly you are to the Geth. Bioware would love to fool you into thinking that 30 pages debating the political ramifications of the Geth, Krogan, or whatever is a good use of your time, but ultimately, the only good use of your time is Red, Green, or Blue.

Ugh yeah, but that's mainly to the stupid "high level" converstation we are supposed to be having with Starbrat. :I

But I find this debate a lot better than the ending ones. They get...weird after a while.

They are better to debate. I definitely agree. Too bad Bioware forgot that. Instead they clouded everything with a massive sense of closure.

At least Dragon Age has ongoing debates in the lore (for the time being). The big political issues haven't been resolved, and I hope they don't pull the same crap there.

Yeah. They tried to do a sense of closure...and it was a dismal failure. Fun thing that people don't like massive black spots and speculation to a nigh decade-long trilogy- which is apparent in the Rannoch arc with the geth and quarians acting utterly stupid during it.

I think Dragon Age benefits greatly from not being a trilogy; they don't have to spaz out to try and wrap everything up. The ME team...did a really terrible job of wrapping up and it's painfully obviously they didn't really know how to stop the Reapers. That's a problem with making massively-overpowered enemies- making a plausible way of killing them all when it's established you can't makes it kinde hard to stop them.

[remydat]

Dextro Milk wrote...

I forgot... I guess the geth found it too hard to say "We are busy, leave us alone."

But hey, I guess killing people is always the right thing to do, right geth?

Umm if a KKK dude in a white hood knocks on my door and says can I come in and then when I don't respond he comes in anyway then I am sorry but he is going to need a lot of bleach to get all that blood out of his white clothing after I shoot his a**.

You sort of lose the benefit of the doubt when your laws that said people like the Geth should not exist led to their attempted extermination.

Dextro Milk wrote...

Just because someone is trying to make peace talks, doesn't mean you kill them without saying a word.

Umm if a KKK dude in a white hood knocks on my door and says can I come in to talk about peace and then when I don't respond he comes in anyway then I am sorry but he is going to need a lot of bleach to get all that blood out of his white clothing after I shoot his a**.

You sort of lose the benefit of the doubt when you claim you come in peace but your laws say people like the Geth should not exist.  If you really came in peace then that law would not still exist.

Modifié par remydat, 14 juin 2013 - 04:19 .

[Steelcan]

remydat wrote...

Dextro Milk wrote...

I forgot... I guess the geth found it too hard to say "We are busy, leave us alone."

But hey, I guess killing people is always the right thing to do, right geth?

Umm if a KKK dude in a white hood knocks on my door and says can I come in and then when I don't respond he comes in anyway then I am sorry but he is going to need a lot of bleach to get all that blood out of his white clothing after I shoot his a**.

You sort of lose the benefit of the doubt when your laws that said people like the Geth should not exist led to their attempted extermination.

.  And if said person comes under a banner of peace?

[remydat]

Steelcan wrote...

And if said person comes under a banner of peace?

If they come in peace then

1.  They should not still have laws that say I should not exist.

2.  They should respect the fact that I don't want to talk to them and leave.

You can't come in peace if you don't respect a person's right to exist and you don't respect a person's right to be left alone if they don't want to talk to you.  When the Geth wanted to talk to organics, organics responded with murder.  If they don't feel like talking now then like I said, show them you respect their wishes by walking away.

Modifié par remydat, 14 juin 2013 - 04:26 .

[Dextro Milk]

remydat wrote...

*KKK ramblings*

Worst, analogy, ever.

Instead of wasting my time with you, I have some hugs to hand out kthxbai.

Modifié par Dextro Milk, 14 juin 2013 - 04:24 .

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

Silver,

The burden of proof is with you because you made the claim.  When I claimed Tali said something, I gave you links.  I am asking you to show me the same courtesy.  That is how a debate works.  I make a claim, I provide a link.  You make a claim and you expect me to go find the proof of it myself.  How is it you think that is fair?

A war was fought and the Geth won.  The Perseus Veil and Rannoch is now Geth terrority because they won.  That is what happens when you win a war.  The Quarians started a war and lost and in the process lost all their world sand colonies.

Just like it is with the geth. The burden of proof of their claims is just as much with them as with me. Again, you aren't acting any different then the Council. When the Council claims something, they put up evidence of the geth's past actions. The geth never refute this.
Also, I did put up links repeatedly to Legion's converstaions, passages in the books, and in the games. You just kept on ignoring them or trying to lable them "propoganda," even though they are in the private embassy records and thus, not propoganda at all.  But for sake of argeuement, keep ignoring that detail - as you always did.
So, once again, YOU are the one that keeps oppressing me the way the Council oppresses the geth. You are the Council, I am the geth. If I'm wrong, the geth are too. Simple as that.
Take the same question you ask me, and apply it to the geth. If I can't do it, why can the geth? I can't be frugal with information and proof, but the geth can. How is that fair? Lose the double-standard.

An illegal war, thus it does not fall under any legal laws, and thus, there is zero valid "spoils of war,"  Thus, AGAIN, the geth's victory is completely null and void as a factor. Rannoch is not their property, any more then Earth is the Reapers.
By your logic, the Reapers have full legal right to Earth, because they engaged us and beare us, and that humans have no right to Earth.
IN short, if the geth "legally" have Rannoch, then the Reapers "legally" have Earth. Once again, you manuvered yourself into a situation where you're double-standard is blaringly apperant.

I'm re-iterating this in some hope that it will get through to you this time.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 14 juin 2013 - 04:27 .

[remydat]

Dextro Milk wrote...

remydat wrote...

*KKK ramblings*

Worst, analogy, ever.

Instead of wasting my time with you, I have some hugs to hand out kthxbai.

Pretty sure the KKK think people like me should not exist.  Pretty sure the council laws say people like the Geth should not exist. 

If organics are not like the KKK when it comes to synthetics why can't EDI publicly admit to anyone except the Normandy crew that she is an AI? When EDI can walk around the Citadel without hiding who she is then you may have a point.

Modifié par remydat, 14 juin 2013 - 04:31 .

[Steelcan]

We should totally leave the geth alone, as soon as they make it clear that they mean us no harm. They never bothered to at least try and make place with organics. Organics did try. Then came the heretics, and not a word from the geth.

[silverexile17s]

Phatose wrote...

They don't give a damn about living on a planet. The war we see isn't actually a territory war at all. It's a war of Annihilation, first the Quarians attempting to annihilate the Geth, then the Geth under Reaper control trying to annihilate the Quarians. Rannoch is only indirectly relevant.

WRONG.
It's a war of survival. The quarians motivations are no different then the geth. They are two halves of the same coin.
The quarians don't give a damn about the geth either way. They just want their world back so their civilians can hunker down and have any chance of suriving the Reaper War. They think the geth are already a hostile Reaper-allied race -- a reputation that is escentally the geth's own fault. Rannoch is 100% directly relevent from the standpoint of the quarians, as it's the entire reson they attacked in the first place. It isn't to the geth.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

In the end, don't get suckered into thinking any of this matters. You can't bring any of this up to the Catalyst. This is why it's better to sell Legion to Cerberus and screw over the Geth. You're destined to be an antagonist to synthetics, no matter what. Might as well go full gusto. Your efforts don't matter. It's like what Jacob said in ME2. "Doing the right thing is like pissing in dark pants. You feel warm, but no one can see it." It doesn't matter how friendly you are to the Geth. Bioware would love to fool you into thinking that 30 pages debating the political ramifications of the Geth, Krogan, or whatever is a good use of your time, but ultimately, the only good use of your time is Red, Green, or Blue.

Ugh yeah, but that's mainly to the stupid "high level" converstation we are supposed to be having with Starbrat. :I

But I find this debate a lot better than the ending ones. They get...weird after a while.

They are better to debate. I definitely agree. Too bad Bioware forgot that. Instead they clouded everything with a massive sense of closure.

At least Dragon Age has ongoing debates in the lore (for the time being). The big political issues haven't been resolved, and I hope they don't pull the same crap there.

Yeah. They tried to do a sense of closure...and it was a dismal failure. Fun thing that people don't like massive black spots and speculation to a nigh decade-long trilogy- which is apparent in the Rannoch arc with the geth and quarians acting utterly stupid during it.

I think Dragon Age benefits greatly from not being a trilogy; they don't have to spaz out to try and wrap everything up. The ME team...did a really terrible job of wrapping up and it's painfully obviously they didn't really know how to stop the Reapers. That's a problem with making massively-overpowered enemies- making a plausible way of killing them all when it's established you can't makes it kinde hard to stop them.

Especially when the second installment of the trilogy is called Mass Effect Derp. You know I figured out that the entire game could have ended pretty close to the Horizon mission?

1) I'd already gotten the hull upgrade from Jacob.
2) I'd already gotten the Thanix upgrade from Garrus, and he's been calibrating it.
3) I had Zaeed's loyalty and Kasumi's loyalty.
4) I had Grunt and Jack and Mordin
5) I got the mission from TIM.
6) We get to Horizon, and the Collectors have landed. Why did we even land? No. Instead I order the Normandy to show our new teeth. Hit the Collector vessel with our main gun and finish them off. HERE IS THE LINK TO THE POST

[remydat]

Steelcan wrote...

We should totally leave the geth alone, as soon as they make it clear that they mean us no harm. They never bothered to at least try and make place with organics. Organics did try. Then came the heretics, and not a word from the geth.

This may come as a shock but enemies don't normally warn each other about an impending attack.  If organics wanted advanced warning about the heretics then they probably shouldn't have laws that say the Geth should not exist and they probably shouldn't have tried to exterminate them.

The Geth are militant a**holes.  They are militant a**holes because organics were militant a**holes to them. 

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Let me point out the flaws.

Tali said since the attack, meaning that Legion withdrew before the quarians ever attacked. Meaning that when he cut contact, it was before the invasion, and thus the attack had nothing to do with him cutting contact. Legion sent silent before the quarians ever made their move. Also, Tali says that she tried to contact him again - meaning that this was before the invasion was even voted on. Tali says she stopped trying to contact Legion when the quarians decided on war, because she didn't want to betray her people by tipping Legion off, even though doing so broke her heart. That means that this all happened before the war was deicded on by the quarians.
Explain that.

Also, Legion and Tali sent "only a few" messages according to Tali. Meaning that there was minimal contact between them. In fact, likely the only contact was before and immediately after the peace option was presented to the quarians.

All you've done is come across as ranting, because "since the attack" is just a lable on the Diolouge wheel. As shown above, that's ALL it is, so stop ranting.

How you can go off about this, when Tali says that Legion cut contact before the attack is beyond all of us.

You keep changing your story.  You claimed Legion did not cut contact.  Now you admit there was contact after he left.  You can't even keep your story straight.  Tali and Legion were in contact after he left.  That is a fact.  Tali admits she could have warned him which proves she could reach him after he left.  So no contact was cut.  He simply left enemy space because Shep was arrested.  You claim that he cut contact would be like saying Shep cut contact with the Citadel just because he leaves Citadel space when he can still communicate with them.

Nope. I'm not the one who's story changed.
I always claimed thart Legion cut contact - at the urging of the geth. Legion was in contact after he returned to the Veil - but NOT after he was re-integrated into the Consensis.  So, once again, you're stroy is the one lacking in details, not mine.

Also, Tali admitting that she could have warned Legion means that she could have sent Legion a message regardless of if he responded. Remember, him not responding didn't mean he wasn't receving the messages - at least, that's what Tali thought. Based on what Tali says, Legion cut contact well before the invasion was even launched. Her exact words were that Legion cut contact, and that she tried to reastablish contact, but stopped trying after the quarians decided to fight. Meaning that Legion severing contact was before the quarians even voted on marching to war. She said she stopped trying to contact Legion because that might tip him off about an invasion and betray her people. So she stopped trying when the quariands decided to go to war - months ago.

So, sorry, but your story is full of holes.