1071 réponses à ce sujet

[shodiswe]

The Geth promised to help rebuild Earth aswell after the Reapers have been defeated.

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

In other words, it's only bad when synthetics are oppressed, and not organics like humans and everyone else with the Reapers? Good to know.
If the geth really want peace, then they are completely 100% oblidged to tell them -- otherwise, you basically have admitted that the geth don't want peace anymore then the quarians did.
Also, AGAIN, if she warned Legion, it ment the geth might have attacked first and butchered her people. If you were in her position, you would have just shot your family in the head with that message. Would you let you're entire family die in her position?
Once again, the one prone to double-standars is you.

That's because there is a destroy-on-sight policy for Reaper-Tech. NOT A.I.s - Reaper-Tech. If she admits she is an A.I. she would just be more heavily monitored -- escentally harsher security measures. If they find out that she's made with Reaper-Tech, then they will shoot her on sight.
Strange that you forget that part.
And AGAIN, you bring an arguemnet that has ABSOLUTLY NO BEARING on this debate into this. Racial hate is NON-EXISTANT IN THIS SCHISM. It is caused by mutual fear and distrust, NOT blood-feuds and hatred.
Also, AGAIN completely wrong definition, because the geth actions are what caused the Council to increase the harsheness of the law, not the other way around. The Council are NOT the faction that attacked you, and publicly disavowed the one that did. The Council and quarians are two seperate factions. The way you are putting it, it's actually the geth punsihing the Council for something they didn't do.
And the way you keep bringing in the completely unrelated topic of real-world prejudice, it sounds like you have blurred the lines of reality again - you are cofussing this debate about the actions of races with the real-world debate of racial hate, when the two are completely differeng arguements. In other words, you are letting this become too personal, remy. You are mixing up two completely seperate debates.

WRONG. The Council didn't HAVE laws that strict. Back then, it was just observation and monitoring. It wasn't till AFTER  the geth rebelled that shackling of A.I.s was a mandatory law. The geth's actions caused that - you have AGAIN reversed the order of events.
And EDI is completely seperate because of Reaper-Tech. Joker says the Reaper-Tech is why they would kill her, not the fact that she's an A.I.

Nope oppression is bad no matter who does it. 

On a scale of 1-10, I rate the Quarian desire for peace as a group as 2.  I rate the Geth desire for peace as a 3 or 4.  Point is the Geth are not some peace loving hippies.  They simply want peace just a wee bit more than the Quarians. 

And what are you ranting about.  I just told you I don't think Tali should have warned the Geth.  I simply also don't think the Geth should have warned organics about the heretics.  They are enemies.  Enemies don't warn each other.  What part of this don't you understand?

Telling me EDI would be subject to harsher security is telling me she is being discriminated against. Prejudice is prejudce whether it is real or whether it is protrayed in a fictional story.  Punishing the CItadel AI for what the Geth did is prejudice.  Punishing all organics for what the Quarians did is prejudiced.  What part of this don't you understand?  

But then why do you seemingly advocate it? Or is this because you still don't grasp that this is not a case of "oppression" but mutual fear and concern?

Wrong. On a scale of 1 - 10, the desire of both is at either 0  or 1. Nither has any reason to trust the other, or risk anything on each-other's word. If the geth wanted peace, they would not have allowed the Heretics to try and usher in galactic genocide. If they wanted peace, Legion would not have advocated for peace completely alone. Nor would he have been recalled and never allowed to reestablish contact with Tali.
Sorry, but again, the geth are "simply "on the same exact level as the quarians.  

Sorry, but that's complelely contridictory to your statement about the geth wanting peace more then the quarians. If you state that the geth shouldn't have warned people about Heretics, that means you are saying they don't want peace any more then the quarians. What part of your self-contridiction don't you understand.

For being Reaper-Tech. Would you allow Reaper-Tech to be walking around the Citadel, when there are Reapers killing people? It's NOT racial discrimination when the progenator of said person (The Reapers) is waging a war of genocidal conquest against you. It's concerned about poetntal enemies in your borders. When you are actively at war with a faction, you wouldn't keep their tech or creation of said-tech from entering your borders? It's not prejudice. And those A.I were reacted to out of the fear thatr they would end up like the geth and kill for seemingly no reason.
The geth seem to punish other organics for the quarians actions out of fear. The quarians attacked the geth out of fear. And in the later conflicts, NEITHER SIDE ACTED OUT OF PREJUDICE, but out of a survival insinct. What part of THAT do you not understand?

[shodiswe]

Double post.

Modifié par shodiswe, 14 juin 2013 - 08:14 .

[silverexile17s]

shodiswe wrote...

The Geth promised to help rebuild Earth aswell after the Reapers have been defeated.

Because a human wiped out the quarians. Genocide for geth help -- THAT's a simple choice<_<

[shodiswe]

silverexile17s wrote...

shodiswe wrote...

The Geth promised to help rebuild Earth aswell after the Reapers have been defeated.

Because a human wiped out the quarians. Genocide for geth help -- THAT's a simple choice<_<

When it stands between a good helpful people versus a people who doesn't seem very willing to help and is mostly interested in genociding other species over and over again, only they are complete failures aswell... Well, the choice seems simple.

[Anubis722]

shodiswe wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

shodiswe wrote...

The Geth promised to help rebuild Earth aswell after the Reapers have been defeated.

Because a human wiped out the quarians. Genocide for geth help -- THAT's a simple choice<_<

When it stands between a good helpful people versus a people who doesn't seem very willing to help and is mostly interested in genociding other species over and over again, only they are complete failures aswell... Well, the choice seems simple.

You mean those helpful robots who genocide 99% entire species including civiaians,who kill any one tried to make peace and tried to talk to them,who let a rouge faction of their own try to commit galatic genocide on the galaxy and then did'nt disvowed them as representative of their race and did'nt do jack sh*t about them for 2 years until they became a threat to them. then let the galaxy hate and fear them like a bunch of jackasses and complete faliures as well,then screw the rest of the galaxy over by joining the reapers again because of a problem they themselves bring on. 

Modifié par AnubisEgyptainLordofDeath, 14 juin 2013 - 09:00 .

[S.A.K]

Finn the Jakey wrote...

Yeah, the Quarians saving you from being vaporised by a Reaper on Rannoch then dedicating their entire fleet to liberating YOUR planet, AND sending troops to Palaven, AND helping build the Crucible isn't helpful in the slightest...

How exactly have the Geth helped Shepard?

The Geth helped Shep by.... by...um... Well Legion killed a couple of husks for him...

[S.A.K]

shodiswe wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

shodiswe wrote...

The Geth promised to help rebuild Earth aswell after the Reapers have been defeated.

Because a human wiped out the quarians. Genocide for geth help -- THAT's a simple choice<_<

When it stands between a good helpful people versus a people who doesn't seem very willing to help and is mostly interested in genociding other species over and over again, only they are complete failures aswell... Well, the choice seems simple.

Exactly. Killing the Geth isn't very hard when you know they are like that.

[S.A.K]

Finn the Jakey wrote...

I meant the Geth as a whole.

I know lol. I am on your side. Just making fun of those get lovers.

[Soldier096]

shodiswe wrote...
When it stands between a good helpful people versus a people who doesn't seem very willing to help and is mostly interested in genociding other species over and over again, only they are complete failures aswell... Well, the choice seems simple.

How have the Geth been helpful? The only unit that wasn't violent towards Shepard was Legion but even it was a compulsive liar towards him. The quarians have been very helpful throughout the trilogy. Tali had the data that implicated saren. Veetor gave us data on the collectors. Kal'Reegar helped us take down the colossus. In Me2 Gerrel said they would be willing to help if they had a world to shelter their civilians. They pledge their allegiance to Shepard in Me3. They helped us destroy the Geth dreadnought. They helped us destroy a reaper. I will ask this question again, what have the Geth done to help? The only unit that was helpful was Legion but even it was willing to kill Shepard if he sides with the Quarians. This whole conflict could have been avoided if they didn't act hostile towards anyone that came near them. There have already been attempts to make peace but the Geth denied all of them.

Modifié par Soldier096, 14 juin 2013 - 03:39 .

[shodiswe]

Soldier096 wrote...

shodiswe wrote...
When it stands between a good helpful people versus a people who doesn't seem very willing to help and is mostly interested in genociding other species over and over again, only they are complete failures aswell... Well, the choice seems simple.

How have the Geth been helpful? The only unit that wasn't violent towards Shepard was Legion but even it was a compulsive liar towards him. The quarians have been very helpful throughout the trilogy. Tali had the data that implicated saren. Veetor gave us data on the collectors. Kal'Reegar helped us take down the colossus. In Me2 Gerrel said they would be willing to help if they had a world to shelter their civilians. They pledge their allegiance to Shepard in Me3. They helped us destroy the Geth dreadnought. They helped us destroy a reaper. I will ask this question again, what have the Geth done to help? The only unit that was helpful was Legion but even it was willing to kill Shepard if he sides with the Quarian. This whole conflict could have been avoided if they didn't act hostile towards anyone that came near them. There have already been attempts to make peace but the Geth denied all of them.

Atempts? 300 years ago? Right after the Council hunted down unarmed AI's on the citadel. The video footage might not be publicly available but the event would be known. It also promted harsher legislation from the council. Which kind of proved they wern't seeking peaceful coexistance.

Anyway, I dealt with the Quarians and Geth differently and I didn't see the Quarians as helpful. I dind't promise the Quarians a Homeworld in ME2, I told them not to go to war.
They are starting a new war when the galaxy is on fire. I can't say I'm possitive about that. I can't sayI agree with thier first genocide atempt, a second doesn't make it any better after you hear that Admiral say they didn't know better back then. Now they know better and they are trying to do the same thing.
The Quarians are also rejectign the notion of a peaceful settlement when all life in the Galaxy might hinge on workign together towards a common goal.
What does Tali have to say about fighting reapers when you first meet here again?

Tali: I don't know, I havn't thought that far a head yet. Maybe if you help us kill all the Geth first. You know, that's superimportant!


EDIT: I knew calling the Geth helpful would get a reaction, but we Know from ME2 that the Geth were geting ready to fight the Reapers. Then the Quarians decides to attack one of my allies. What does that make the Quarrians?
The Enemy of my friend is my? Enemy?

Modifié par shodiswe, 14 juin 2013 - 03:45 .

[Soldier096]

You still haven't answered my question. How have the Geth been helpful? You are deflecting the question with nonsense.

[Soldier096]

Remember the mission on Haestorm? The True Geth didn't exactly have a friendly reaction towards Shepard's arrival. In Me2 Legion never said they would fight with the organics. You are filling things in with your own head-canon. The Geth didn't send any form of comunication to anyone when the reapers attacked. They didn't send any forces to those in need.  They were still minding their own buisness while the Galaxy goes up in flames. Legion said the Geth had trouble reaching a consensus. They didn't decide to help anyone.

Modifié par Soldier096, 14 juin 2013 - 04:15 .

[shodiswe]

Soldier096 wrote...

You still haven't answered my question. How have the Geth been helpful? You are deflecting the question with nonsense.

Without Legion (the Geth) the dreadnaughts shields and weapons and everytihng would still have been up. Without Legion's assistance Shepard and Tali would have died on the Dreadnaught after the sheilds went down. The only way off the ship was though Legions "aid" who could show the way to the hangarbay (possibly open the doors aswell) and pilot a Geth Fighter.
Legions Servermission got Shepard some Reaper code that the Asari coudl use to help their strategic planning and predicting Reaper strategies. It also stoped that Reaper controled Geth fighterwing, which is of less import if you choose to destroy the Quarians.
Legion also with providing the coordinates for the reaperbase. Legion aquiers an escape vehicle, whichout which Shepard and Squad would be quite dead.

The Geth provides one of the largest and most advanced fleets aswell as infantry and Gethprimes which double as mobilearmored comand units.
The Geth fleets engage Reaper supplylines and the ground forces invade ground holdings.
When time for the Battle over earth commes they are there with their fleet and orbital dropped ground troops, helping out with the liberation of the galaxy.

Also in ME2 Shepard got trapped in that airlock by the Reapers/collectors who had set up a trap for shepard luring Shepard there with the trapped IFF(which turned out to be a clever double trap), but Legion overrides it before getting overrun by Husks.

Tbh, I found the Quarians on Freedoms progress to be suspect at best, there is no concrete evidence.
But the colonys defences were deactivated, a Quarian was there during the attack in the security room.
Which he was there he didn't activate the security droids, instead he calmly and very efficiently collected intel for the fleet on the collectors.
Then when the collectors have left and an investigation team arrives before he leaves he decides to activate the colony defences and "override" security protocolls to allow them to fire on friendlies.
The intel gathered and then shared upon capture doesn't turn out to be very useful, but it proves that the Collectors were behind the abductions. Somehow his extraction team got there before you or the Alliance from the other side of the galaxy..

And Kal'Reegar and Tali on Halestrom... They wern't helpful, Shepard was helpful and saved them from the Geth who were very upset about their intrusion and Geth bodypart gathering for the illegal experiments ran by her father.
Which of course caused even more problems. Which Shepard had to aid them with...(if you choose to)

This far I've only seen the Quarians getting help with their problems, that they have usualy created themselves.
Helping out by sending their fleet to earth at the final battle does help repay some of the inconveniences thoguh. (assuming you made peace or saved the Quarians) otherwise you will have to satisfy yourself with the consolation that the Quarians will be causing less problems in the future. The Asari concilor certainly doesn't seem to mind.

The Quarians has never been seen as helpful by the Galactic populace.

Modifié par shodiswe, 14 juin 2013 - 04:18 .

[shodiswe]

Soldier096 wrote...

Remember the mission on Haestorm? The True Geth didn't exactly have a friendly reaction towards Shepard's arrival. In Me2 Legion never said they would fight with the organics. You are filling things in with your own head-canon. The Geth didn't send any form of comunication to anyone when the reapers attacked. They didn't send any forces to those in need.  They were still minding their own buisness while the Galaxy goes up in flames. Legion said the Geth had trouble reaching a consensus. They didn't decide to help anyone.

They had problems reachign a consensus on the Reaper offer after the Quarians attacked them... 17 days after the Quarians multisystem genocide attack had been initiated, they accepted the Reaper offer when their deathtolls were in the billions.

[Soldier096]

You still haven't answered my question. How were the Geth helpful? Not Legion. The Geth race as you stated helped you more than the Quarians. One unit doesn't mean mean an entire race. Legion doesn't even represent the Geth majority seeing how it was placed into the reaper device against it's will.

Modifié par Soldier096, 14 juin 2013 - 04:50 .

[remydat]

silverexile17s wrote...

Nope. I'm not the one who's story changed.
I always claimed thart Legion cut contact - at the urging of the geth. Legion was in contact after he returned to the Veil - but NOT after he was re-integrated into the Consensis.  So, once again, you're stroy is the one lacking in details, not mine.

Also, Tali admitting that she could have warned Legion means that she could have sent Legion a message regardless of if he responded. Remember, him not responding didn't mean he wasn't receving the messages - at least, that's what Tali thought. Based on what Tali says, Legion cut contact well before the invasion was even launched. Her exact words were that Legion cut contact, and that she tried to reastablish contact, but stopped trying after the quarians decided to fight. Meaning that Legion severing contact was before the quarians even voted on marching to war. She said she stopped trying to contact Legion because that might tip him off about an invasion and betray her people. So she stopped trying when the quariands decided to go to war - months ago.

So, sorry, but your story is full of holes.

This is completely untrue.  Shep asks Tali about Legion AND SINCE THE ATTACK and Tali says she spoke to Legion SINCE THE ATTACK and that he told her the Geth were having trouble reaching consensus.  Once again, 9:49 of the vid beloe says this is SINCE THE ATTACK

Modifié par remydat, 14 juin 2013 - 04:37 .

[remydat]

silverexile17s wrote...

So then you basically believe whatever the hell you want, regardless of proof, lore, cannon, or anything else? Yoiu are basically unreasonable? Good to know.

And if they give indifference? When they make no inclination to say one way or the other? Silence is not an automatic "no." You want someone to get the message -- Tell them so. As I said before, the geth had no reason to think they were liers, and had the full capability to tell the truth.

Weren't you just talking about "humans never lose Earth because they are still alive in the end?" You keep changing your arguement. Refuse is the ONLY ending this happens in. In refuse, the geth are dead too, remember?
Also, AGAIN, not their homeworld, because (A) claimed in illegal war, ( not created as living beings, © make no claim to it themsleves, and (D) previous owners still have full claim to it. Legion says that don't believe in the concept of a homeworld.

In other words -- you are completely and utterly prejudiced. You truly are mixing a personal grudge to a seperate dispute about real-life racisim to this unrleated fictional debate about cause and effect on the actions of two races.

WRONG. You are basically saying "might makes right" and "If I'm stronger, what I say goes." That's racial supremicy, and saying that enlsavement is perfectly just.
Words don't even begin to describe my horror at that.

You have provided proof of nothin.  You have shared opinions and then tried to pretend those opinions are facts.

Silence is not an invitation to enter someone elses terroritory.

I don't pick refuse so in all my games humans are winners and own Earth.  In all my games, the Quarians are losers after the morning war and do not live on Rannoch.

Silver, if you are American but not Native American, please vacate the USA.  When you do then I will accept your argument because right now I am horrified you remain in the USA when that country was stolen from the rightful owners.

silverexile17s wrote...

But then why do you seemingly advocate it? Or is this because you still don't grasp that this is not a case of "oppression" but mutual fear and concern?

Wrong. On a scale of 1 - 10, the desire of both is at either 0  or 1. Nither has any reason to trust the other, or risk anything on each-other's word. If the geth wanted peace, they would not have allowed the Heretics to try and usher in galactic genocide. If they wanted peace, Legion would not have advocated for peace completely alone. Nor would he have been recalled and never allowed to reestablish contact with Tali.
Sorry, but again, the geth are "simply "on the same exact level as the quarians.  

Sorry, but that's complelely contridictory to your statement about the geth wanting peace more then the quarians. If you state that the geth shouldn't have warned people about Heretics, that means you are saying they don't want peace any more then the quarians. What part of your self-contridiction don't you understand.

For being Reaper-Tech. Would you allow Reaper-Tech to be walking around the Citadel, when there are Reapers killing people? It's NOT racial discrimination when the progenator of said person (The Reapers) is waging a war of genocidal conquest against you. It's concerned about poetntal enemies in your borders. When you are actively at war with a faction, you wouldn't keep their tech or creation of said-tech from entering your borders? It's not prejudice. And those A.I were reacted to out of the fear thatr they would end up like the geth and kill for seemingly no reason.
The geth seem to punish other organics for the quarians actions out of fear. The quarians attacked the geth out of fear. And in the later conflicts, NEITHER SIDE ACTED OUT OF PREJUDICE, but out of a survival insinct. What part of THAT do you not understand?

The Quarians tried to exterminate the Geth when the Geth did not do anything to them.  They did so because they Geth were synthetics and they feared them.  That is called prejudice.  The Geth responded to that prejudice with their own prejudice because they not only killed the Quarians but they judged all organics based on the Quarians attempt to kill them. 

Nope the Quarians hated peace more because they attacked first.  Geth had no problem living with the Quarians.  The Quarians had a problem living with the Geth. 

Please provide a link where anyone claims that if not for Reaper Tech, EDI would be allowed to walk free around the Citadel as a VI?  You tend to make stuff up and exaggerate.  EDI could admit to being an AI without admitting she has Reaper Teach?  Why doesn't she do this?

Modifié par remydat, 14 juin 2013 - 05:03 .

[S.A.K]

shodiswe wrote...

Soldier096 wrote...

You still haven't answered my question. How have the Geth been helpful? You are deflecting the question with nonsense.

Without Legion (the Geth) the dreadnaughts shields and weapons and everytihng would still have been up. Without Legion's assistance Shepard and Tali would have died on the Dreadnaught after the sheilds went down. The only way off the ship was though Legions "aid" who could show the way to the hangarbay (possibly open the doors aswell) and pilot a Geth Fighter.
Legions Servermission got Shepard some Reaper code that the Asari coudl use to help their strategic planning and predicting Reaper strategies. It also stoped that Reaper controled Geth fighterwing, which is of less import if you choose to destroy the Quarians.
Legion also with providing the coordinates for the reaperbase. Legion aquiers an escape vehicle, whichout which Shepard and Squad would be quite dead.

The Geth provides one of the largest and most advanced fleets aswell as infantry and Gethprimes which double as mobilearmored comand units.
The Geth fleets engage Reaper supplylines and the ground forces invade ground holdings.
When time for the Battle over earth commes they are there with their fleet and orbital dropped ground troops, helping out with the liberation of the galaxy.

Also in ME2 Shepard got trapped in that airlock by the Reapers/collectors who had set up a trap for shepard luring Shepard there with the trapped IFF(which turned out to be a clever double trap), but Legion overrides it before getting overrun by Husks.

About the highlighted part,
Legion just shot 3 husks behind Shepard. I don't think every husk on that damn ship could take down Shepard. Besids Shepard and co had been through way worse without any Legion to help.

About the rest,
Those mostly show how Geth were trying to kill Shepard. Those things wouldn't even happen if the Geth weren't trying to kill us. How does that help your point?

And after Rannoch story arc, the Quarians help out just as much as the Geth or more. So I don't see how that helps your point either.

[shodiswe]

 Legion open the path for Shepard to the enine core.

Modifié par shodiswe, 14 juin 2013 - 05:08 .

[Soldier096]

shodiswe wrote...
They had problems reachign a consensus on the Reaper offer after the Quarians attacked them... 17 days after the Quarians multisystem genocide attack had been initiated, they accepted the Reaper offer when their deathtolls were in the billions.

First  you can't kill a Geth. Those programs aren't individuals before the reaper code. They lost data nothing more. Legion even says that defining a race by your own terms is racist. Legion or the VI are the only units with a true personality because both are unique creations with a thousand programs as opposed to a mass produced Geth unit with only a few programs. Second What were the Geth doing before the Quarians attacked? They sure weren't fighting the reapers or resolving the Quarian-Geth conflict. Oh right, they were still minding their own buisness as usual while the Quarians needed a world and the galaxy needs more forces to fight the reapers.

Modifié par Soldier096, 14 juin 2013 - 05:10 .