1071 réponses à ce sujet

[silverexile17s]

Honestly, I don't see any reason why the geth need Rannoch spicifically -- Legion himslef already stated that the geth do not place any monestary value on a planet, stating that a planet is not a home -- the geth have a "home is where you are" mentality.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 20 juin 2013 - 11:22 .

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

And thus, this still means that the last contact she had was before the quarians ever set foot into the Perseus Veil. Also, I remind you that these messages are after the quarians turned down Tali and Legion's attempt to vote on negotiation.

Nope, Legion saying the Geth not being able to reach consensus was about allying with the Reapers after the Quarian attack.  I just don't care to debate that point anymore so I basically am agreeing to disagree on that.  

And in the below you claimed Legion cut contact before the quarians even voted on marching to war.  Now you agree it was after they voted to go to war.  Make up you mind Silver.  Story keeps changing.

silverexile17s wrote...

Also, Tali admitting that she could have warned Legion means that she could have sent Legion a message regardless of if he responded. Remember, him not responding didn't mean he wasn't receving the messages - at least, that's what Tali thought. Based on what Tali says, Legion cut contact well before the invasion was even launched. Her exact words were that Legion cut contact, and that she tried to reastablish contact, but stopped trying after the quarians decided to fight. Meaning that Legion severing contact was before the quarians even voted on marching to war. She said she stopped trying to contact Legion because that might tip him off about an invasion and betray her people. So she stopped trying when the quariands decided to go to war - months ago.

Nope. Dead wrong. Tali says that she could have warrned Legion about the attack during that message. Meaning that their last contact was diffinitively pre-invasion.
And again, wrong. You seem to forget something -- you made the false assumption that Legion and Tali's peace attempt was simoultanious to the war effort. It was not.
Also, again, you don't have an accurate timeframe - in other words, Tali could have ment the war vote as much as the war prep, so I stand by my statement.
The war wasn't decided on till after the Reapers invaded, which means at least two weeks prior to the Rannoch War's start. Meaning that when the quarians made the vote, it was pretty damn certin what the quarians would chose when faced with "death by Reaper." When you find an accurate timeframe that spiciifcally details when the vote was and when the actual war prep was, let me know. Because right now, it could be one or the other, but it still doesn't change the fact that their last message was pre-war.

[silverexile17s]

Phatose wrote...

Amazing. A definition of life from organics on a planet with only organic life is set up to exclude everything that isn't organic.

It's thus utterly and completely useless - systematically biased into complete irrelevance.

You do realize that there is no right answer to this, right? Legion himself says that it's all based on how one interperts life, and that no set definition is correct. Meaning that you aren't any more right them him, dude.

[remydat]

Silver,

1. The Geth hearing an organic ship say they come in peace means nothing. Organics are liars and the Geth have no reason to trust them.

2. I am not arguing about who did what in the game. I am telling you what I would and would not accept. The Quarians can share Rannoch with the Geth. They cannot have it all for themselves unless the Geth decide to give it all to them.

3. When you start a cycle of murder and extermination then you are more guilty. That is my opinion. It cannot be changed. You are free to have your own opinion but the Quarians started it.

4. If Legion dies on the collecter mission you can get a Legion hologram which is a unit created from Legion's archived memories. That thing is not Legion. It keeps saying over and over We are not Legion.

5. Shep busted his a** before and Gherel blew up the ship he was on. Tali is right ther busting her a** as is Koris and Gherel ignores both of them. Believe what you want. Gherel hers the Geth will kill them all and that is why he stands down IMO. He does not care about peace.

6 Don't talk to me multiplayer. That sh*t has awakened collectors and all other sorts of stuff that does not make sense. You can play with Geth Juggernauts long before you make peace with the Geth or even after you kill them all on Rannoch.

[silverexile17s]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

You guys are still arguing this? Make peace already. Don't argue anymore. Tell the Quarians and the Geth to kiss and make up. It's all fixable.

Because now..... I have the most paragon ending of all.... and we can thank the Citadel DLC for it. I can save the Geth and EDI in Destroy.

* Bioware retconned their Codex in the DLC with these three words. "Power up EDI...."

But before you say the words "Shepard was just talking stupidly..." know this. Bioware has been known to play fast and loose with both the Codex and Plot in this game and others. Lore is not their strong point. They have changed it when it suits their needs. And since this DLC is to be played in the middle of the game and NOT after the ending (like I wished it had been) it changes the entire lore about blue box AIs with those three words. Cringe. Put your palm to your face. Do what ever. I did not write them. The game is over. They are not patching it.

This means that EDI was powered down by the Clone and Brooks. That's right. The Blue Box was powered down. EDI is a huge AI program, right? She said that only a small portion of her runs in the robot and she can do that so long as it remains within QE distance of the Normandy, while the bulk of her runs the ship. However, the robot itself has an independent power supply, thus enabling the robot to run that small portion of EDI while the main EDI is powered down -- hence EDI's anger and desire to kill the Clone for taking such action.

Shepard had communication with Hackett before Glowboy. So Shepard has communication before shooting the tube. However, since this is a cutscene and we don't have control over our characters anymore, we cannot do more than one of three things. In reality, we would have done this:

1) Contacted the Normandy: "Normandy, Engineer Adams, this is Shepard, I am ordering you to shut down EDI. Disconnect her power. Tell her she has to sleep for a while otherwise she will die. Turn her back when the danger has passed. Do you copy?"

2) "Geth, this is Shepard Commander. If you want to survive you will have to trust me. You will have to shut down temporarily and trust us organics to reactivate you later. Because you aided us in this war we will do so. You have my promise. You must do so now. Do you copy?"

Upon receiving confirmation, Shepard shoots the tube. The ending is now paragon. The Geth and EDI survive the Destroy ending.

Do you now see? It is all fixable.

Well, technically, the cannon statement is that the reason EDI didn't die when her Blue-Box in the Normandy's core was shut down is because she backed herslef up into the EVA body, which has it's own completely blank Blue-Box after EDI deleated the EVA A.I. -- same as how geth create backups of themselves. So, basically, So, BioWare get's off easy on that. Yes, it's fudged, but again, nothing that directly contridicts the lore.
It's not lore-breaking, it's not lore-supporting. It's just.... there. Just a big red sore thumb that you don't see any need for, yet can't find any diffinitive reason to get rid off.
Much like the Goddamn Catalyst.
So, sadly, the Destroy ending would still kill EDI because it would fry both sets of Blue-Boxes, leaving nothing left.

[remydat]

silverexile17s wrote...

But is a V.I. alive? Or just a more advanced computer? Now you are sounding like Xen, saying that base V.I.s are nothing but tools.

I mean alone. The individual programs -- one of the 100. Do they on their own constitute life, since they are a component of a living being? Because it sounds like you consider them all worthless without being networked.

But again, it;s up for debate weather or not this is a "thinking computer" of a living being -- the entire point of the game is to determine you're own interpertation of that. The game does not tell you the "truth" -- only what the characters' personal conclusions are. You are supposed to draw you're own conclusions yourself.

No I already told you a single Geth program is not alive.  A group of them are.  That does not mean they are worthless because I know when combined with other programs, they create life.  I know that. 

And no it really isn't up for debate.  The game tells you they are alive and you can simply choose to disregard that fact if you want just like people disregard the truth to believe what they want in real life all the time.

[remydat]

silverexile17s wrote...

Nope. Dead wrong. Tali says that she could have warrned Legion about the attack during that message. Meaning that their last contact was diffinitively pre-invasion.
And again, wrong. You seem to forget something -- you made the false assumption that Legion and Tali's peace attempt was simoultanious to the war effort. It was not.
Also, again, you don't have an accurate timeframe - in other words, Tali could have ment the war vote as much as the war prep, so I stand by my statement.
The war wasn't decided on till after the Reapers invaded, which means at least two weeks prior to the Rannoch War's start. Meaning that when the quarians made the vote, it was pretty damn certin what the quarians would chose when faced with "death by Reaper." When you find an accurate timeframe that spiciifcally details when the vote was and when the actual war prep was, let me know. Because right now, it could be one or the other, but it still doesn't change the fact that their last message was pre-war.

Don't care either way.  The point was the Quarians voted against peace while Legion and Tali were still talking.  Everything else has been said over and over.  No point rehashing. 

[remydat]

silverexile17s wrote...

Honestly, I don't see any reason why the geth need Rannoch spicifically -- Legion himslef already stated that the geth do not place any monestary value on a planet, stating that a planet is not a home -- the geth have a "home is where you are" mentality.

Honestly, I see no reason why the Quarians can't share.  Their a**hole ancestors didn't want to co-exist with the Geth so the best way for them to prove they are no longer a**holes is to share.  I learned how to share when I was like 4 or 5.  Time for the Quarians to learn the same.

Modifié par remydat, 20 juin 2013 - 11:48 .

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

Silver,

1. The Geth hearing an organic ship say they come in peace means nothing. Organics are liars and the Geth have no reason to trust them.

2. I am not arguing about who did what in the game. I am telling you what I would and would not accept. The Quarians can share Rannoch with the Geth. They cannot have it all for themselves unless the Geth decide to give it all to them.

3. When you start a cycle of murder and extermination then you are more guilty. That is my opinion. It cannot be changed. You are free to have your own opinion but the Quarians started it.

4. If Legion dies on the collecter mission you can get a Legion hologram which is a unit created from Legion's archived memories. That thing is not Legion. It keeps saying over and over We are not Legion.

5. Shep busted his a** before and Gherel blew up the ship he was on. Tali is right ther busting her a** as is Koris and Gherel ignores both of them. Believe what you want. Gherel hers the Geth will kill them all and that is why he stands down IMO. He does not care about peace.

6 Don't talk to me multiplayer. That sh*t has awakened collectors and all other sorts of stuff that does not make sense. You can play with Geth Juggernauts long before you make peace with the Geth or even after you kill them all on Rannoch.

1. Again, you did not refute the point I made about the geth's technological capabilites making it completely impossible for them to misjudge the ships. If they were spy ships, they would have known. We know for a fact from the Embassy records they are not spy ships. Therefore, the geth would be able to determine the same. Sorry, but again, it's impossible for a misunderstandint to have happened -- the geth knew full well what they were doing. You yourself say the geth are guilty of their own crimes -- so why are you so unwilling to accept that same sentance here?

2. And no one would accept attempted genocide being returned with complete genocide as being "justified.' No one. The geth themselves do not need Rannoch, have no monatary value for Rannoch if Legion is to be believed, and are building a giant megastructure, and have repeatedly proven that they do not need planets of their own -- space stations sute them better. Otherwise, they wouldn't be building a megastructure in the first place.

3. Once again, no one would accept complete genocide as being a "just punishment." And again, they acted based on the knwoledge of the pre-programed and pre-constructed limitations they gave the geth. Butchering millions that had absolutly nothing to do with the actions taken against you perpetuates the conflict and kills any chance of resolving it anytime soon, making that side just as guilty as the side that started the war. Just as guilty. The geth and quarians are both to blame, and both equally so.

4. But earlier a while back, weren't you the one saying that as long as the memories are intact, it's same person? Now you are saying that's not the case?
Again, neural patterns and memories aren't the same thing. That geth did not have Legion's neural patterns -- it's mind. Just memories. If it had both, then Legion could have been ressureected. But as is, it's just a stand-in with the same memories.

5. No, Shep didn't. For the sake of Tali's trial, Tali was the one that was given all the credit for the Alerei mission -- Gerrel and Raan saw to that much. As far as they know, Shepard was just the help.
It isn't until the Rannoch War that Shepard's actions get real recognition and pull in the Migrant Fleet.
Also, IDK if you noticed, but that's the same with everyone -- the turians don't trust you. They need you to get the krogan on your side to help.
The krogan don't trust you. They need you to get a genophage cure to help.
The salarians don't trust you. They need you to sabotage the cure to help you.
The Council doesn't trust you. They need you to save them from Cerberus before they help.
The Alliance doesn't trust you. They need the Reapers to kick down the front door and kill their Admiralty Board before they realize "oh crap, Shepard was right."
Also, if that were the case, then the quarians and geth would never have gotten along at all following the war. He would never have allowed any geth to upload into quarian suits. And Again, in the same situation, the galaxy doesn't surrender to the Reapers. The quarians don't have a "submission is prefreable to extinction" policy like you advocate -- they'd rather fight for their freedom. It's finding out that the geth feel the same that stops the war -- not superior force. Otherwise, the quarians would have just surrendered the moment the geth sided with the Reapers in the frist place. Explain that.

6. Wrong. You see, Multiplayer is basically the Dev's "cannon meter." They;re personal cannon brought to life. In other words, their personal cannon being that you both completed "Leviathan" and saved the geth.
Sorry, but that's the dev's personal cannon - and they say "the galaxy is just fine with A.I.s when they get to know them."
Besides, the Citadel DLC has several NPC's that say that Collectors are on the battlefields, and you actually meet several of the MP character classes in the flesh on the Silversun Strip, including the asari vanguard and adept, salarian engineer, turian sentenel, human infltrator, vorcha soldier, and even an N7 Fury adept.
And again, the galaxy seems to accept the geth pretty damn openly after the Rannoch War ends.

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

But is a V.I. alive? Or just a more advanced computer? Now you are sounding like Xen, saying that base V.I.s are nothing but tools.

I mean alone. The individual programs -- one of the 100. Do they on their own constitute life, since they are a component of a living being? Because it sounds like you consider them all worthless without being networked.

But again, it;s up for debate weather or not this is a "thinking computer" of a living being -- the entire point of the game is to determine you're own interpertation of that. The game does not tell you the "truth" -- only what the characters' personal conclusions are. You are supposed to draw you're own conclusions yourself.

No I already told you a single Geth program is not alive.  A group of them are.  That does not mean they are worthless because I know when combined with other programs, they create life.  I know that. 

And no it really isn't up for debate.  The game tells you they are alive and you can simply choose to disregard that fact if you want just like people disregard the truth to believe what they want in real life all the time.

Then that's no different then Xen's beliefs -- "It's still just a machine." Her belief was that at their base components, geth were not fundementally alive and thus, the internetworked geth weren't alive either. Just more advanced processors.

And yes, it is fully up for debate. The game tells us what the character's personal views are. And you're actions shape those views. I remind you that Shepard is completely open to state that the geth aren't alive no matter how advanced they become -- indicating that just because Legion and Tali's personal views are that the geth are alive, doesn't mean that that shoud be you're view. That's called "metagaming."  The truth is what you believe -- and you have no right whatsoever to say someone else is wrong in their interpertation of the geth being "alive" or not.

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Nope. Dead wrong. Tali says that she could have warrned Legion about the attack during that message. Meaning that their last contact was diffinitively pre-invasion.
And again, wrong. You seem to forget something -- you made the false assumption that Legion and Tali's peace attempt was simoultanious to the war effort. It was not.
Also, again, you don't have an accurate timeframe - in other words, Tali could have ment the war vote as much as the war prep, so I stand by my statement.
The war wasn't decided on till after the Reapers invaded, which means at least two weeks prior to the Rannoch War's start. Meaning that when the quarians made the vote, it was pretty damn certin what the quarians would chose when faced with "death by Reaper." When you find an accurate timeframe that spiciifcally details when the vote was and when the actual war prep was, let me know. Because right now, it could be one or the other, but it still doesn't change the fact that their last message was pre-war.

Don't care either way.  The point was the Quarians voted against peace while Legion and Tali were still talking.  Everything else has been said over and over.  No point rehashing. 

But what you said just now has nothing to do with any of the above. And again, I reiterate that the geth's publicly recorded actions of mass murder at the Citadel didn't give the quarians any reason to believe the geth wanted peace, since the geth never pleaded innocence for that. Again, both sides failed to do what was needed for peace. Both sides.

[remydat]

No Silver that is different. One program is not alive. A group of them are. That is pretty f**king different than the Geth not being alive no matter how many programs are grouped together.

The game tells us Legion thinks he is alive. That is made perfectly clear. He thinks he has a soul. Period. The only people that don't think so are organics with an obvious bias.

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Honestly, I don't see any reason why the geth need Rannoch spicifically -- Legion himslef already stated that the geth do not place any monestary value on a planet, stating that a planet is not a home -- the geth have a "home is where you are" mentality.

Honestly, I see no reason why the Quarians can't share.  Their a**hole ancestors didn't want to co-exist with the Geth so the best way for them to prove they are no longer a**holes is to share.  I learned how to share when I was like 4 or 5.  Time for the Quarians to learn the same.

Once again, it's because the geth haven't made any effort to share. When did the geth ever make any offer of coexistance on Rannoch prior to the War's end? When did the geth even make any public action of wanting organics inside their borders? Their ancestors thought the geth were going to force them off Rannoch. And again, I ask for proof that the geth wanted to share? Because they never gave any -- Both sides have to say they willingly want to share.
It takes two people saying they want to share for it to happen. You still haven't learned that. Time both sides did.

And BTW, this still doesn't answer my question of why the geth needed Rannoch any more then the quarians did, as they seemed perfectly fine building space stations and orbital servers. Name me one thing that the geth have on Rannoch that can't exist anywhere else. For the quarians, it's the ecosystem, the crops, and the atmosphere -- all things the geth don't need. Name me one thing Rannoch has that the geth do diffinitively need to live.

[remydat]

silverexile17s wrote...

But what you said just now has nothing to do with any of the above. And again, I reiterate that the geth's publicly recorded actions of mass murder at the Citadel didn't give the quarians any reason to believe the geth wanted peace, since the geth never pleaded innocence for that. Again, both sides failed to do what was needed for peace. Both sides.

You are trying to debate something I already told you I was not debating anymore.  The point made was your earlier statements as well as other people like to claim the Quarians voted against peace only after Legion cut of contact.  You admit they voted against peace while Tali and Legion were talking.  My point is made and everything else we have talked about over and over again so I don't care to talk about it further.  You can't change my mind and I can't change yours.  But let the record show the Quarians voted against peace during a time Tali and Legion were in contact.  Period.

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

No Silver that is different. One program is not alive. A group of them are. That is pretty f**king different than the Geth not being alive no matter how many programs are grouped together.

The game tells us Legion thinks he is alive. That is made perfectly clear. He thinks he has a soul. Period. The only people that don't think so are organics with an obvious bias.

No it is not different. You are basically saying that the geth can be decostructed to basic utilitarian programs -- the same belief as Xen.

The game tells us Legion asking if the geth are alive. He never once diffinitively states that he knows until all is said and done, and even then, it's just Legion's personal opinion. You yourself made a big show and dance about "perosnal opinion not being the same as fact." So what makes Legion's personal opinion diffinitive fact about this?
Like I said, the game has you decide for yourself. Nither interpertation is incorrect.

P.S. you called yourself biased in that sentance with that choice of words.

[remydat]

silverexile17s wrote...

Once again, it's because the geth haven't made any effort to share. When did the geth ever make any offer of coexistance on Rannoch prior to the War's end? When did the geth even make any public action of wanting organics inside their borders? Their ancestors thought the geth were going to force them off Rannoch. And again, I ask for proof that the geth wanted to share? Because they never gave any -- Both sides have to say they willingly want to share.
It takes two people saying they want to share for it to happen. You still haven't learned that. Time both sides did.

And BTW, this still doesn't answer my question of why the geth needed Rannoch any more then the quarians did, as they seemed perfectly fine building space stations and orbital servers. Name me one thing that the geth have on Rannoch that can't exist anywhere else. For the quarians, it's the ecosystem, the crops, and the atmosphere -- all things the geth don't need. Name me one thing Rannoch has that the geth do diffinitively need to live.

All of this has been discussed before Silver.  Once again, over and done with.  The Quarians can share Rannoch or the Geth can give it up freely.  Anything else is unacceptable IMO for reasons discussed over and over again.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

And again, the galaxy seems to accept the geth pretty damn openly after the Rannoch War ends.

This proves once again that The Catalyst = "Stupid Machine!" It does its masters' bidding. Synthesis. Now everyone can pay tribute.

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

But what you said just now has nothing to do with any of the above. And again, I reiterate that the geth's publicly recorded actions of mass murder at the Citadel didn't give the quarians any reason to believe the geth wanted peace, since the geth never pleaded innocence for that. Again, both sides failed to do what was needed for peace. Both sides.

You are trying to debate something I already told you I was not debating anymore.  The point made was your earlier statements as well as other people like to claim the Quarians voted against peace only after Legion cut of contact.  You admit they voted against peace while Tali and Legion were talking.  My point is made and everything else we have talked about over and over again so I don't care to talk about it further.  You can't change my mind and I can't change yours.  But let the record show the Quarians voted against peace during a time Tali and Legion were in contact.  Period.

Because nothing you said refuted what I posted.

And again, you DO realize that the general quarian public -- the people responcible for the war vote -- were unaware of the proposal Legion and Tali made, right? That statement never made it past the closed doors of the Amdiralty Board's private dissussions. The quarian public itself never knew one way or the other.
So let the record show you misinterperted again. The quarian populance -- the one's responcible for casting the majority vote to war -- were never aware of what Legion and Talu tried behind closed doors.

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Once again, it's because the geth haven't made any effort to share. When did the geth ever make any offer of coexistance on Rannoch prior to the War's end? When did the geth even make any public action of wanting organics inside their borders? Their ancestors thought the geth were going to force them off Rannoch. And again, I ask for proof that the geth wanted to share? Because they never gave any -- Both sides have to say they willingly want to share.
It takes two people saying[/b] they want to share for it to happen. You still haven't learned that. Time both sides did.

And BTW, this still doesn't answer my question of why the geth needed Rannoch any more then the quarians did, as they seemed perfectly fine building space stations and orbital servers. Name me one thing that the geth have on Rannoch that can't exist anywhere else. For the quarians, it's the ecosystem, the crops, and the atmosphere -- all things the geth don't need. Name me one thing Rannoch has that the geth do diffinitively need to live.

All of this has been discussed before Silver.  Once again, over and done with.  The Quarians can share Rannoch or the Geth can give it up freely.  Anything else is unacceptable IMO for reasons discussed over and over again.

And [b]again, you dodged my question. I ask again -- when did the geth ever make any attempt to show that they were willing to have anyone inside their borders? Because a single isolated geth acting independant of his people isn't convincing proof.

[remydat]

silverexile17s wrote...

No it is not different. You are basically saying that the geth can be decostructed to basic utilitarian programs -- the same belief as Xen.

The game tells us Legion asking if the geth are alive. He never once diffinitively states that he knows until all is said and done, and even then, it's just Legion's personal opinion. You yourself made a big show and dance about "perosnal opinion not being the same as fact." So what makes Legion's personal opinion diffinitive fact about this?
Like I said, the game has you decide for yourself. Nither interpertation is incorrect.

P.S. you called yourself biased in that sentance with that choice of words.

Umm organics can be deconstructed to basic elements that are not alive either.  My body is carbon based.  Carbon is not alive in and of itself.  Does that mean I am not alive?  If you or Xen can't understand the basic concept that from non-living matter, life can be created then I don't know what to say to you.

I think therefore I am.  An organic trying to tell a synthetic that thinks and has independent thought that he is not alive is what is biased.

[remydat]

silverexile17s wrote...

And again, you dodged my question. I ask again -- when did the geth ever make any attempt to show that they were willing to have anyone inside their borders? Because a single isolated geth acting independant of his people isn't convincing proof.

The Quarians have no reason to trust the Geth and the Geth have no reason to trust the Quarians.  I don't really give a sh*t.  They can share Rannoch or the Geth can give it to them.  The Quarians have no right to Rannoch alone and nor do the Geth.  The Geth simply hold it because they won the war and the Quarians have not shown they want to co-exist with them.

[remydat]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

And again, the galaxy seems to accept the geth pretty damn openly after the Rannoch War ends.

This proves once again that The Catalyst = "Stupid Machine!" It does its masters' bidding. Synthesis. Now everyone can pay tribute.

The Geth are primitive AI.  The Catalyst fears AI that haven't been created yet because the Reapers have harvested before they can be created.  So the Geth prove nothing.  

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

No it is not different. You are basically saying that the geth can be decostructed to basic utilitarian programs -- the same belief as Xen.

The game tells us Legion asking if the geth are alive. He never once diffinitively states that he knows until all is said and done, and even then, it's just Legion's personal opinion. You yourself made a big show and dance about "perosnal opinion not being the same as fact." So what makes Legion's personal opinion diffinitive fact about this?
Like I said, the game has you decide for yourself. Nither interpertation is incorrect.

P.S. you called yourself biased in that sentance with that choice of words.

Umm organics can be deconstructed to basic elements that are not alive either.  My body is carbon based.  Carbon is not alive in and of itself.  Does that mean I am not alive?  If you or Xen can't understand the basic concept that from non-living matter, life can be created then I don't know what to say to you.

I think therefore I am.  An organic trying to tell a synthetic that thinks and has independent thought that he is not alive is what is biased.

Wrong. A carbon cell is capable of independant evolution, and adaptation. Xen's argument, and yours, is that this is not true of the geth, and thus, the geth aren't alive. If You or Xen can't understand that V.I.s on their base level are just as alive as cells, then don't pretend to claim you see them as alive.

Animals can't think. Does that mean they aren't alive? Cells and bacteria can't think. Does that mean they aren't alive. You have a very selective view of "alive."

[remydat]

silverexile17s wrote...

Because nothing you said refuted what I posted.

And again, you DO realize that the general quarian public -- the people responcible for the war vote -- were unaware of the proposal Legion and Tali made, right? That statement never made it past the closed doors of the Amdiralty Board's private dissussions. The quarian public itself never knew one way or the other.
So let the record show you misinterperted again. The quarian populance -- the one's responcible for casting the majority vote to war -- were never aware of what Legion and Talu tried behind closed doors.

If their Admirals held the truth from them which is not stated in the game but if they did then I don't care.  Some quarians knew and whether they told other quarians or not is an internal quarian matter.

Modifié par remydat, 21 juin 2013 - 12:31 .

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

And again, you dodged my question. I ask again -- when did the geth ever make any attempt to show that they were willing to have anyone inside their borders? Because a single isolated geth acting independant of his people isn't convincing proof.

The Quarians have no reason to trust the Geth and the Geth have no reason to trust the Quarians.  I don't really give a sh*t.  They can share Rannoch or the Geth can give it to them.  The Quarians have no right to Rannoch alone and nor do the Geth.  The Geth simply hold it because they won the war and the Quarians have not shown they want to co-exist with them.

AGAIN, didn't answer the question -- what did the geth do to show they wanted to share. And an earlier question you also dodged -- what does Rannoch have that the geth can't find anywere else? All we've done is find things the quarians can't find anywhere else.

The geth, being an illegal faction, have zero right to Rannoch -- no more right then the Reapers do to Earth, or any of the worlds they conquered.
Again - illegal war = illegal claim = zero right to land.