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[Bakgrind]

Ecrulis wrote...

klarabella wrote...

I can barely understand what you're trying to say but, you are aware that Mac Walters was the lead writer of ME2, too?

The whole trilogy suffers from inconsistencies and contrivances. No reason to lay the blame on ME3 alone ... or on Mr. Walters in particular.

This, honestly this is the type of thing that happens when you write a trilogy as you go along, the series obviously had no clear direction, or at least the overarching plot was not cemented before approaching writing the thing, of course the 11th hour plot switch after the script leaked didn't help either.

Exactly Ecrulis, I was just going to write the same thing but you beat me to it. Just because Bioware published 3 games from the Mass Effect series does not make it a trilogy  since all 3 of their games are thematicly inconsistant and tend to invalidate  each other .

[David7204]

These comments are both nonsense. Plenty of famous writers have written substantial works 'on the fly.' Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Same with peer review. For example, if I had the power to change things about the game, I might bounce some ideas off the BSN, but there is utterly no way in hell I would give anyone here so much as a shred of authority to change anything. The decisions would ultimately all be mine. And i would fully expect half the replies to be garbage.

Modifié par David7204, 28 mai 2013 - 05:11 .

[Forst1999]

I'm not willing to condemn the whole "writing on the fly" thing either. For all problems it made, it also led to some plot points they did not envision in the beginning and apparantly it always has been Bioware MO. For example (KotOR Spoilers)If I remember correctly, the whole Revan-twist was conceived very late. And it's the one thing about the story I find really interesting (nice Star Wars feeling aside). Baldur's Gate also had some things that did not fit at all in the end (the role of the protagonist's mother, Imoen's condition).
I'm not saying that some more planning wouldn't have prevented some plot problems in ME. But writing "on the fly" produced some of Bioware's most popular stories, so I think it's unfair to condemn it completely.

Modifié par Forst1999, 28 mai 2013 - 05:18 .

[Arcian]

David7204 wrote...

Off Topic, but I just noticed your signature. Are you sure you're fit to be touting science like you're some sort of expert?

Absolutely. Especially when people like you run around claiming things like biotics being feasible in real life. As I recall it, you couldn't even tell the difference between a small and large calorie.

The difference between you and me, David, is that I have the spine to admit that I'm wrong when I'm proven wrong. In fact, I love being proven wrong. How else can do you learn new things?

David7204 wrote...

I remember you writing a little fanfiction once that had the player traveling to the Small Magellanic Cloud without any fuss. You neglected to account that it's an entire new galaxy, not just a nebula or something. Sloppy research.

The only thing that is sloppy is your reading comprehension. I did not defend myself against your complaints back then because I don't give two f**ks about what you think of me, my scientific knowledge or what I write. But since you insist on bringing it up, have some clarification for free:

The player travelled there through a specialized Mass Relay with an augmented power source giving it a massively augmented range, much like the Alpha Relay. The Mass Relay was built by one of the Leviathans and his organic (willing) followers hundeds of millions of years before the events of that fanfic, who travelled to and used a habitable star system in the Large Magellanic Cloud as their base of operations while trying to find a way to defeat the Reapers. Because the Reapers didn't have any interest in the Large Magellanic Cloud, it was a safe haven for them.

Of course you can argue the likelihood of the Magellanic Clouds supporting life with the relatively short span of time for planetary development, but there's not enough observation to say either way. And that's not really the point of space opera stories, anyway.

[David7204]

Is that right? My profile is open. I encourage you to go hunt down any supposed post I made about calories. I'd be happy to defend it.

I'm curious how the Leviathans built this super-duper relay without the Reapers discovering it for hundreds of millions of years. It sounds to be rather pointless. If they can get away with building such a thing in the milky way without the Reapers discovering it, I would think any of their other reseach would be safe as well.

Modifié par David7204, 28 mai 2013 - 05:40 .

[KaiserShep]

The entire reaper invasion always struck me as problematic. It seemed as if they needed the citadel in order to return to the galaxy, yet they come back in force in an obscenely short period of time. Of course, ME2 has an obvious lead-in for this, but when harbinger tells the collector that they will find another way, you'd think that they meant some other scheme to retake the trap they established, rather than just use brute force. I guess this really contradicts ME1 more than 2, but I think the writers thought that a full on reaper invasion needed to happen in this game. I can understand that, though I completely disagree.

[David7204]

A Reaper invasion was going to happen sooner or later. After all the foreshadowing and built up, it would be a complete cop-out for it to not happen.

[KaiserShep]

Fair enough, but the way this occurs matters too. I feel that the invasion was given the wrong approach by the writers. If the reapers could just take the long haul to the galaxy and still mow over the other races, why bother with their prothean husk slaves? Another problem with the invasion is that it presents a strange dilemma. The reapers could have taken the citadel back and send the entire galaxy into disarray like they did the protheans, but they didn't. Despite all the destruction, the galactic government is intact. Problem is, if they did this, there'd be no game since it would be game over.

[dreamgazer]

You're supposed to burn more calories than you consume in a day.

That's all, carry on.

[David7204]

Yes, those are problems. The problem with the Citadel could have been circumvented fairly easily by simply having the Citadel's control over the relays permantently broken in ME 1. I think it might have been cool to have Shepard find the physical system that controls the relays in ME 1 and have it destroyed somehow, so that nobody can control the relays, human, alien, or Reaper. That way the Reapers have no real reason to take it. Particularly since doing so would immediately unite every race against them, since every race cares about the Citadel.

Modifié par David7204, 28 mai 2013 - 05:55 .

[jkflipflopDAO]

The whole point of ME2 was ?? To get started building a Human-shaped reaper in a cobbled together secondary facility for ?? The reapers were going to be here before the protoreaper was even close to being finished. Why were they in such a hurry? What were they going to do with it?

Sovereign sends signal to citadel to open the relay. Protheans "hacked" the citadel and corrupted the signal so the keeps couldn't respond.

Why does sovereign need to send a signal if the reaper king IS the citadel?
How did the protheans manage to hack the AI that created the Reapers? Not only that, he's been unable to fix their meddling in 50,000 years.
Why does he need the keepers to activate the relay in the first place? Why didn't he just wire himself to the "REAP!" button? He took the time to wire himself to that one magical panel in the floor just incase an organic happens to collapse there after building the crucible and watching his mentor die. . . but didn't have the sense to wire himself to the whole reason for the station's existence?

Why did they bother with the whole citadel thing anyways? It only took them 3 years to fly from where they were sleeping to Earth. Sovereign indoctrinated the Rachni 2000 years ago and used them to wage war on the galaxy. . . a war that lasted centuries and he almost won. Why didn't the fleets fly in then? Humans still thought the Earth is flat and the Krogan were yet undiscovered. It would have been a faceroll.

[Ecrulis]

Creature0fHabit wrote...

Ecrulis wrote...

klarabella wrote...

I can barely understand what you're trying to say but, you are aware that Mac Walters was the lead writer of ME2, too?

The whole trilogy suffers from inconsistencies and contrivances. No reason to lay the blame on ME3 alone ... or on Mr. Walters in particular.

This, honestly this is the type of thing that happens when you write a trilogy as you go along, the series obviously had no clear direction, or at least the overarching plot was not cemented before approaching writing the thing, of course the 11th hour plot switch after the script leaked didn't help either.

Peer review...can't say it enough.

Oh definitely, and Im not saying you can't ever write a trilogy without a clear direction for the story, only that when things go wrong doing that the story tends to spectacularly fall apart.

[Mr.House]

When has the series post ME not have bad writing and plotholes?

[Display Name Owner]

Not even trying to be sarcastic, but I genuinely had the most profound sense of deja vu.

[adayaday]

David7204 wrote...

Finn the Jakey wrote...

Legion: "How many creators have you seen maskless? We are showing you what you perceieve the creators to look like."

Translation:

Legion: "The art department were lazy bums."

That is simply stupid. They've wanted to keep the quarians mysterious. Revealing them in the Consensus would have been ridiculous.

If they wanted to leave them mysterious they would have not added Tali's picture.

[jkflipflopDAO]

Ecrulis wrote...

Creature0fHabit wrote...

Ecrulis wrote...

klarabella wrote...

I can barely understand what you're trying to say but, you are aware that Mac Walters was the lead writer of ME2, too?

The whole trilogy suffers from inconsistencies and contrivances. No reason to lay the blame on ME3 alone ... or on Mr. Walters in particular.

This, honestly this is the type of thing that happens when you write a trilogy as you go along, the series obviously had no clear direction, or at least the overarching plot was not cemented before approaching writing the thing, of course the 11th hour plot switch after the script leaked didn't help either.

Peer review...can't say it enough.

Oh definitely, and Im not saying you can't ever write a trilogy without a clear direction for the story, only that when things go wrong doing that the story tends to spectacularly fall apart.

Yeah, they should have known what the reapers are, why they're reaping, and how they're going to be stopped before anything else happened. That should have been mapped out from square 1.

[dreamgazer]

Mr.House wrote...

When has the series post ME not have bad writing and plotholes?

When has the series ever been without plot holes and gaps in logic? 

*cough*

[David7204]

When has any series of considerable length that deals with anything beyond incredibly simple themes and actions been without plot holes and gaps in logic?

Modifié par David7204, 28 mai 2013 - 06:21 .

[IanPolaris]

David7204 wrote...

When has any series of considerable length that deals with anything beyond incredibly simple themes and actions been without plot holes and gaps in logic?

That doesn't mean the attempt shouldn't be made, and a lot of the plotholes in ME3 are simply inexusable (as in "I didn't bother to play ME1 inexcusable).

-Polaris

[UniqueName001]

Creature0fHabit wrote...

 Here's my question...Does anyone have any plot holes or bad senerios from ME3 that made no sense or conflicted with things from ME2?

For instance when in ME3 on the Geth fighter base inside the Geth consensus you see a replay of quarians and Shepard asks why the suits. Legion responds to how many quarians have you seen before? Well if you romanced Tali you know quarians pretty well. Not to mention in citadel dlc you see the quarian take off her mask in the Fleet and the Flotilla. Not to mention when you save Tali in ME2 no quarions have their helmets blown off? There laying everywhere. 

I know there are more but I want to know what you have noticed that we might have missed. I hope for the sake of the series Mac Walters better wake the hell up and get his sh&# together..

The masked/suited Quarians in the Geth consensus bothered me as well.  The "explaination" given is seriously weak (somehow they have historical data on conversations, body positions, etc. but not what their creator race looked like?).  Basically they couldn't be bothered to make a unmasked Quarian model in-game so they had to pull a lame excuse out of thin air.  Not that I'm bitter about that.

[Big Bad]

What's up with the Locust hate? It's the best smg in ME2, and it's one of the best non-Hurricane smg's in ME3!

[UniqueName001]

David7204 wrote...

When has any series of considerable length that deals with anything beyond incredibly simple themes and actions been without plot holes and gaps in logic?

Plot holes due to being overly ambitiious, or simple mistakes, are one thing.  Plot holes due to poor design decisions (in this case, creating a Diana Allers model instead of an unsuited Quarian model) are, I feel,  less acceptable.

[KaiserShep]

Big Bad wrote...

What's up with the Locust hate? It's the best smg in ME2, and it's one of the best non-Hurricane smg's in ME3!

It's a heck of a lot better than the shiruken (sp?), which is weak as hell and terribly inaccurate. 

[AlexMBrennan]

Here's my question...Does anyone have any plot holes or bad senerios from ME3 that made no sense or conflicted with things from ME2?

Are you serious? "Finding" plot holes in ME3 is like shooting fish in a barrel

[Jukaga]

KaiserShep wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

What's up with the Locust hate? It's the best smg in ME2, and it's one of the best non-Hurricane smg's in ME3!

It's a heck of a lot better than the shiruken (sp?), which is weak as hell and terribly inaccurate. 

I like my blood pack SMG, great for Infiltrator 'in da face' uncloack attacks. Locust is a great primary for SMG characters like Liara, it comes too late in SP to be of much use, just like the Sabre AR.