583 réponses à ce sujet

[AresKeith]

iakus wrote...

At this point I'm just going to reiterate that functional and stylish do not have to be exclusive.

Of course shouldn't be exclusive, we've already shown examples in the thread

[AresKeith]

Auld Wulf wrote...

Noap. I'm tired of grey-brown utilitarian games. I like seeing a bit of art here and there.

How is going into heavy combat in casual clothes art?

[Iakus]

AresKeith wrote...

iakus wrote...

At this point I'm just going to reiterate that functional and stylish do not have to be exclusive.

Of course shouldn't be exclusive, we've already shown examples in the thread

Indeed.

But others seem to think "functional"="camo-colored burqa"  Which is absolutely untrue.

[Ravensword]

AresKeith wrote...

lol Ravensword I meant to say almost like David in terms of ignoring what was posted

I was simply pointing out the difference between the two, lol.

[Ninja Stan]

Let's try and tone down the hostility and defensiveness, please. We can disagree with each other without resorting to posturing and stubborn stamping of feet. It is also possible to hold a different point of view without being "closed-minded," just as it is possible to be "open-minded" and still disagree with someone else's point of view.

Armour design in fiction can be anything from realistic to plausible to exaggerated to unrealistic to "what the heck were they thinking?" Depending on the product in which these products appear, the way something looks may or may not have anything to do with how it works. For example, in may fantasy games, the sexy "chainmail bikini" type of armour for females may work just as well as full plate, if both have the same stats. A barbarian wearing a loincloth may have just as much protection as spiky armour guy.

Realism does not necessarily equal better gameplay or more fun for everyone.

[o Ventus]

AresKeith wrote...

Auld Wulf wrote...

Noap. I'm tired of grey-brown utilitarian games. I like seeing a bit of art here and there.

How is going into heavy combat in casual clothes art?

Remember who you replied to.

[Ninja Stan]

Some bickering removed.

[RadicalDisconnect]

Eterna5 wrote...

Pretty sure an Asari Justicar is the epitome of concentration.

Heavy armor can also be a hinderance. 

Sure, not heavy armor, but that shouldn't mean no armor. Having light armor may allow for stronger biotic amps to increase barrier strength. I think it's sensible for everyone to be wearing some form of armor, with biotics wearing lighter ones. For example, adepts would wear the future equivalent of the LBT plate carrier while a soldier or vanguard would wear something analogous to IOTV.

Modifié par RadicalDisconnect, 31 mai 2013 - 11:48 .

[Iakus]

Ninja Stan wrote...

Armour design in fiction can be anything from realistic to plausible to exaggerated to unrealistic to "what the heck were they thinking?" Depending on the product in which these products appear, the way something looks may or may not have anything to do with how it works. For example, in may fantasy games, the sexy "chainmail bikini" type of armour for females may work just as well as full plate, if both have the same stats. A barbarian wearing a loincloth may have just as much protection as spiky armour guy.

Realism does not necessarily equal better gameplay or more fun for everyone.

The problem here is that Mass Effect has been wildly inconsistent with its portrayal of outfits.  We have military uniforms and body armor alongside futuristic versions of the loincloth or the chain mail bikini.

Ifit started out with the more comic books style of ME2, perhaps it wouldn't have been so jarring.  I certainly don't fault Jade Empire for staying true to its style, But Mass Effect started out far closer to the body armor and uniforms end of the spectrum.  Then ran away from it really fast.  And came partway back with ME3.

[Iakus]

Eterna5 wrote...

Pretty sure an Asari Justicar is the epitome of concentration.

Heavy armor can also be a hinderance. 

Even a justicar can't see everything.  Being prepared keeps you alive

We're not talking about heavy armor, though, we're talking about having any armor at all.  Samara's outfit might kinda look like light armor, but it has a very clear gap for bad guys to aim at.

[Bleachrude]

iakus wrote...

Ninja Stan wrote...

Armour design in fiction can be anything from realistic to plausible to exaggerated to unrealistic to "what the heck were they thinking?" Depending on the product in which these products appear, the way something looks may or may not have anything to do with how it works. For example, in may fantasy games, the sexy "chainmail bikini" type of armour for females may work just as well as full plate, if both have the same stats. A barbarian wearing a loincloth may have just as much protection as spiky armour guy.

Realism does not necessarily equal better gameplay or more fun for everyone.

The problem here is that Mass Effect has been wildly inconsistent with its portrayal of outfits.  We have military uniforms and body armor alongside futuristic versions of the loincloth or the chain mail bikini.

Ifit started out with the more comic books style of ME2, perhaps it wouldn't have been so jarring.  I certainly don't fault Jade Empire for staying true to its style, But Mass Effect started out far closer to the body armor and uniforms end of the spectrum.  Then ran away from it really fast.  And came partway back with ME3.

Not sure one can blame ME2 for this.

This is what Matriarch Benezia was wearing when she knew something was wrong at Peak 15

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Yeah. ME has always had some stripperific armour choices....

re: Samara
Shouldn't the same issue ALSO apply to Thane, even moreso given that his sheer raw combat power is nowhere near the level of a matriarch asari justicar.


One could at least argue that Samara has barriers for that and regularly fights "in your face" style so she has lots of practise with her barrier...what's Thane's excuse given he explicitly is not supposed to be fighting like that?

[AresKeith]

Thane's Alternate Appearance pack outfit puts armor plates on him

[Iakus]

Bleachrude wrote...

iakus wrote...

Ninja Stan wrote...

Armour design in fiction can be anything from realistic to plausible to exaggerated to unrealistic to "what the heck were they thinking?" Depending on the product in which these products appear, the way something looks may or may not have anything to do with how it works. For example, in may fantasy games, the sexy "chainmail bikini" type of armour for females may work just as well as full plate, if both have the same stats. A barbarian wearing a loincloth may have just as much protection as spiky armour guy.

Realism does not necessarily equal better gameplay or more fun for everyone.

The problem here is that Mass Effect has been wildly inconsistent with its portrayal of outfits.  We have military uniforms and body armor alongside futuristic versions of the loincloth or the chain mail bikini.

Ifit started out with the more comic books style of ME2, perhaps it wouldn't have been so jarring.  I certainly don't fault Jade Empire for staying true to its style, But Mass Effect started out far closer to the body armor and uniforms end of the spectrum.  Then ran away from it really fast.  And came partway back with ME3.

Not sure one can blame ME2 for this.

This is what Matriarch Benezia was wearing when she knew something was wrong at Peak 15

::snip::

Yeah. ME has always had some stripperific armour choices....


::snip::
re: Samara
Shouldn't the same issue ALSO apply to Thane, even moreso given that his sheer raw combat power is nowhere near the level of a matriarch asari justicar.


One could at least argue that Samara has barriers for that and regularly fights "in your face" style so she has lots of practise with her barrier...what's Thane's excuse given he explicitly is not supposed to be fighting like that?

Yup, congrats on finding the only major character in ME1 to wear a stripperific outfit, that totally justifies the outfits of full-fledged squadmates like Miranda, Samra, Jack, Thane, Jacob, etc.

re:  Thane  Yes.  His outfit is rather silly.  Made more so that every drell in existence seems to visit the same tailor.  And then there's the halfhearted hand-wave in LOTSB to explain it.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

iakus wrote...

Yup, congrats on finding the only major character in ME1 to wear a stripperific outfit, that totally justifies the outfits of full-fledged squadmates like Miranda, Samra, Jack, Thane, Jacob, etc.

re:  Thane  Yes.  His outfit is rather silly.  Made more so that every drell in existence seems to visit the same tailor.  And then there's the halfhearted hand-wave in LOTSB to explain it.

Even with Benezia, there was dialog on Noveria with Lorik that suggested that she dressed like that on purpose. Combined that withhow it seemed like she never intended to personally fight herself, and I was actually forgiving of her outfit.

As for Thane, his jacket atleast made some sense because he's a stealthy assasin. If he is getting shot at then its because he has screwed up.

Modifié par Lizardviking, 01 juin 2013 - 01:05 .

[Tron Mega]

i like things looking iconic. memorable. giving characters certain outfits made them more personable. kindof like ME2 handled weapons moving on from ME1. the thing that i didnt like was trying to believe these "best warriors in the galaxy" wore nipple straps or spandex or did vega wear a cutsleve too? i think the designs chould have stemed more from what the character wears in combat. any space ninja HAS A SPACE NINJA CUSTUM. you dont sneak attack without your pimpin cloak armor, am i right?

the lack of needing helmets was pretty jaring. why am i playing a game set in space where people dont need masks??? are we supposed to be in the same universe, or is there no need to wear helets in ME2 and beyond? i suppose an art team or whomever who settled on talis photoshop mess also decides to forget people need masks.

[DJ CAVE SLAVE]

I never weighed in on this back when this discussion started to arise in ME2, so I might as well do so now. I personally like that everyone has a unique look to them, suiting their own background and combat style. Characters such as Miranda, Thane, Tali, and Liara aren't really your "front-line soldiers" like others, so it makes sense they would choose something lighter and more mobile. You have to consider that this is a galaxy where people mostly rely on kinetic/biotic barriers as their primary form of defense, so the armor is just there in case you barriers are damaged anyways. But whiners gonna whine, so Bioware made sure everyone was well stocked with additional outfits with added armor, should that be your thing. And that's actually one thing I think Bioware has actually done very well, so I'm not really sure why this is still a discussion.

[GreatBlueHeron]

Anyone who thinks that functional armor automatically equals boring and sameness in design lacks imagination. It doesn't have to be either or.

And Miranda was the most sexualized character of the series (the most sexualized race was the asari). I saw the character development of Miranda as a convenient excuse to make her blatently sexy. That camera angle of her assests are burned in my mind...a crack so deep it almost cuts through her body to the other side. Male characters do not get these gratuitous proportions and camera angles. I wouldn't give a fig about the sexualization of female characters if male characters were treated EXACTLY the same, with the same submissive postures, skimpy clothing and invasive camera action. This annoyance isn't limited to Mass Effect, lest I give the impression that Bioware is the only one to blame...the objectification of women is pervasive in the industry.

Modifié par GreatBlueHeron, 01 juin 2013 - 07:10 .

[Fixers0]

Yeah I constantly got to wonder why certain people keep presenting thesefalse dillemmas that you either have indiviual, tiny, and colourfull catsuits or generic, heavy, and "boring" Heavy armor, that's not even the point of the this thread, it's whether the game should adopt a more pratical and utalitarian art style, with specific regards to character's outfits on-duty and in combat.

[GreatBlueHeron]

Yup. False dilemma indeed. The next game may not center aroud the Alliance or N7's. I can envision a group of non-military fighters with unique armor and clothing. Shoot, even if the next game does center around military-based groups there can be unique non-boring armor.

[RadicalDisconnect]

Not only that, functional armor don't even have to be conspicuous. For example, in some of the modern lightweight plate carriers, the armor doesn't bulk you up much at all, so I highly doubt wearing sensible-looking armor will make everyone look the same.

[Bizinha]

For battle, I prefer ME1's style.




*.* I would like to be a military ... even with all the bad side.

Modifié par Bizinha, 01 juin 2013 - 01:47 .

[RadicalDisconnect]

Okay, regarding that picture, I have no idea why they're swearing headscarfs like that. I thought they tie their hair up. Is dust really a big problem for female hair or something? Maybe MassivelyEffective0730 can pitch in here.

Modifié par RadicalDisconnect, 01 juin 2013 - 02:08 .

[andy6915]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Clothing establishes character whether you're willing to admit it or not. A catsuit establishes a cat thief, for example. A supposed cat thief wearing fatigues would be ridiculous.

I'm still wondering what the f*ck a cat thief is doing on a military suicide mission in the first place.


No really, what the actual f*ck did we need a thief for in ME2?


We recruit Kasumi, the best thief there is, only to put her into military situations and never actually use her for her expertise. Yeahhh... okay.... whatever....


Same thing can be said about Thane by the way (an assassin who never assassinates anyone for us).

TIM meant her to be your only tech expert originally. Remember, Legion was definitely an accidental meeting and Tali was only decided on after she helped you on Freedom's Progress after dossiers were already made. Kasumi was on the very first bunch of dossiers though. So if you hadn't ran into Tali and Legion by luck, neither would have ever been recruited to begin with and Kasumi would have been the only one good enough at tech to hack the Collector door in time. So only Kasumi was actually planned to be your techie before meeting 2 other techies who could take her place. We know getting Tali was going to happen and that she would be the tech expert becase we know how fictional stories work, but in-universe/in-canon Kasumi was the only planned tech expert and that would have stayed the case if Shepard hadn't got lucky with meetings.

From a meta gaming standpoint it doesn't make sense because you know you're just going to get Tali later. But from a story standpoint, when the dossiers were already set up before Shepard even left for Freedoms Progress and Shepard REALLY NEEDED a tech tech expert and Tali wasn't even considered by Brooks or TIM at that point... It makes perfect sense to hire Kasumi.

[Fixers0]

andy69156915 wrote...
From a meta gaming standpoint it doesn't make sense because you know you're just going to get Tali later. But from a story standpoint, when the dossiers were already set up before Shepard even left for Freedoms Progress and Shepard REALLY NEEDED a tech tech expert and Tali wasn't even considered by Brooks or TIM at that point... It makes perfect sense to hire Kasumi.

Not Really considering we don't even know, why we need a tech expert, with infiltration skills at all, at all, unless TIM knows the plot ahead off time, besides, everybody can perform taks, they'd just get hit by a random rocket.

Besides, Kasumi is totally optional.

Modifié par Fixers0, 01 juin 2013 - 04:19 .

[RadicalDisconnect]

Fixers0 wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...
From a meta gaming standpoint it doesn't make sense because you know you're just going to get Tali later. But from a story standpoint, when the dossiers were already set up before Shepard even left for Freedoms Progress and Shepard REALLY NEEDED a tech tech expert and Tali wasn't even considered by Brooks or TIM at that point... It makes perfect sense to hire Kasumi.

Not Really considering we don't even know, why we need a tech expert, with infiltration skills at all, at all, unless TIM knows the plot ahead off time, besides, everybody can perform taks, they'd just get hit by a random rocket.

Besides, Kasumi is totally optional.

I suppose you want a team that's as versatile as possible. It can be handwaved in any number of ways. I won't really delve into that, as there are even bigger problems with ME2's story.