14 réponses à ce sujet

[Olath Senger]

Just wondering, would it be possible to take a Cleric level as a Favored Soul and get the effect from the healing domain with just the one level of Cleric?

[Arkalezth]

Yes.

[Dann-J]

Empowered Healing should work, but I doubt you'd get the bonus spells at levels 2 and 5.

[Olath Senger]

DannJ wrote...

but I doubt you'd get the bonus spells at levels 2 and 5.

Didn't think so. Thanks for the answer guys!

[Arkalezth]

DannJ wrote...

Empowered Healing should work, but I doubt you'd get the bonus spells at levels 2 and 5.

Right. You get Empower Healing, but not the extra domain spells.

Unrelated to your question, but for the record, a cleric level also gets you (besides another domain feat) heavy armour proficiency and Turn Undead, which does not progress when leveling as a FS, but it unlocks some feats.

Modifié par Arkalezth, 30 mai 2013 - 12:39 .

[Dann-J]

Arkalezth wrote...

Unrelated to your question, but for the record, a cleric level also gets you (besides another domain feat) heavy armour proficiency and Turn Undead, which does not progress when leveling as a FS, but it unlocks some feats.

Gaining 'Turn Undead' also allows you to become a favoured soul Doomguide (if you meet the other requirements as well). Watch out for XP penalties if you're not human, half elf, or grey orc though.

[Arkalezth]

You can do that, but there's hardly any point unless you just want the Extra Turning feats for more Divine Might uses or something. I mean, if you want to be good at turning (as good as the game lets you, anyway), stick to classes with turning progression.

[Dann-J]

Bond of Fatal Touch would be quite useful for a favoured soul of Kelemvor, given that they'd get exotic weapon proficiency and 'weapon focus: bastard sword' for free. Saving throw bonuses against death effects are nothing to sneeze at either.

[Arkalezth]

DannJ wrote...

Bond of Fatal Touch would be quite useful for a favoured soul of Kelemvor

... for a whole round.

Saving throw bonuses against death effects are nothing to sneeze at either.

I'd sneeze at them. Favoured souls have high progression in all saving throws, which can be further buffed by spells, and they can cast Death Ward. If you can make a save with a FS/DG, you can do it with a pure FS as well.

In short, the only remotely worthwile thing DG adds to a FS - not that it adds a lot more to other classes - from a mechanical standpoint is extra Turn Undead uses.

[Dann-J]

What are you really missing from taking Doomguide though (apart from reflex saves, and a few hit points)? You're still getting full spell progression, and the convenience of not having to memorise spells. Favoured souls aren't exactly awash with bonus feats, whereas doomguides get one at just about every level.

Your doomguide levels, combined with the generally higher charisma bonus that favoured souls have, actually make your turn undead abilities halfway decent (compared to their otherwise non-existence for a pure FS).

The biggest flaw in many cleric builds is the focus on wisdom at the expense of charisma, the latter of which determines the effectiveness of a lot of cleric feats. With FS you pretty much have to focus on wisdom and charisma equally for spell casting purposes (perhaps moreso on charisma). Favoured souls are actually better suited to turning undead, which is ironic given that they usually won't be able to do so.

[Arkalezth]

Well, if I was making a turning cleric, I wouldn't leave his CHA at 8 (just for the record, the usual with FS is dumping WIS, unless you want to cast offensively for some reason). And how many FS levels are we talking about? You'll need a lot of CHA in order to offset the turning loss (i.e. in order to turn like a bad cleric), and more than 20 CHA or so is usually considered a waste.

Even if you could make a FS a "halfway decent" turner, that's not enough to make Turn Undead reliable. Except maybe at low levels, you need a heavy focus if you want to make any good use of it.

What do you lose? Well, first of all, pure FS gain extra stuff, like Weapon Specialisation, a Haste-like ability, and more importantly, damage reduction. Of course, you also need to invest several (possibly useless, but whatever) feats, and a class slot which could be better spent elsewhere - stormlord, for example. And what do you gain exactly?

I don't see the point of continuing this argument. DG has been widely considered a crappy class since it came out. Its main appeal is the turning stuff... and TU has been considered a pretty crappy ability from the start as well. This has been discussed a million times.

If you want a turner, play a cleric. If you want a favoured soul which is good at killing undead, kill them with a weapon. If you want a FS/DG for the sake of it, you're welcome to play it, but don't expect much from it.

[I_Raps]

Empowered Mass Heal will kill a lot of undead - which brings us back full circle to the OP and his not-a-bad idea.

[Dann-J]

Arkalezth wrote...
If you want a turner, play a cleric. If you want a favoured soul which is good at killing undead, kill them with a weapon. If you want a FS/DG for the sake of it, you're welcome to play it, but don't expect much from it.

I *have* played as a favoured soul / doomguide. I wanted the convenience of not having to memorise spells, then found out that I needed TU to qualify for DG, so I had to add a level of cleric. I ended up having my cake and eating it too. I enjoyed the character immensely (enjoyment being the most important outcome of playing a game).

I've also dabbled with FS/stormlord and FS/sacred fist.

Modifié par DannJ, 02 juin 2013 - 10:44 .

[Arkalezth]

DannJ wrote...
enjoyment being the most important outcome of playing a game

I've never said otherwise.

By all means, play whatever the hell you find fun, but this entire discussion has been about mechanics and effectivenes.

[Dann-J]

Actually, it was about whether FS would benefit from the cleric healing domain, which we answered within the first five posts. Since then, the thread has been about how much neither of us has an actual life. We've been arguing about how to play with computerised dolls, for jeebers sake.