57 réponses à ce sujet

[Ieldra]

Solmanian wrote...
i think what the OP is trying to say is that she doesn't want companions to be pushovers slaved to the will of the PC.

That's one concern. Of course I don't want all companions to be like that - variety is good - but more of them. Also, I don't mind having influence as the player, but if I do, it shouldn't feel as if the protagonist is changing the companion. I'm not sure how such a distinction can be created when player actions manifest through protagonist actions, but that's the concern.

The concern I haven't expressed adequately, apparently, is that I don't want characters - most notably romanced characters - I come to like for a specific set of traits to lose those traits through "character development" because some writer thinks that a character can't end up with a grey morality and should fall squarely on one side of the fence.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 30 mai 2013 - 05:15 .

[In Exile]

Ieldra2 wrote...
The concern I haven't expressed adequately, apparently, is that I don't want characters - most notably romanced characters - I come to like for a specific set of traits to lose those traits through "character development" because some writer thinks that a character can't end up with a grey morality and should fall squarely on one side of the fence.

The game has to address the "piece of ****" problem, which is basically how to turn a selfish, morally grey character into an LI without having an abusive relationship. 

[Ieldra]

In Exile wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
The concern I haven't expressed adequately, apparently, is that I don't want characters - most notably romanced characters - I come to like for a specific set of traits to lose those traits through "character development" because some writer thinks that a character can't end up with a grey morality and should fall squarely on one side of the fence.

The game has to address the "piece of ****" problem, which is basically how to turn a selfish, morally grey character into an LI without having an abusive relationship. 

There are other kinds of being morally grey than being selfish, and there is no reason why a morally grey character can't have a meaningful relationship. People express different attitudes to different people all the time.

[Nightdragon8]

LadyJaneGrey wrote...

I'm trying to come up with a DA NPC whom the PC does not and indeed can AVOID influencing (well, outside of refusing to interact with them at all). Possibly Dog?

exactly, the problem is that, once you start communicating with someone you will influcne them in one way or another. They will either learn how you behaive and get along with you or try to avoid you. Or if they are a sociopath will manipulate you into doing what they want.

Also a "Healthy" relationship requires some compromising for both parties. Also Morigan did change, granted not alot, and yes you couldn't "Harden her" Like you could with Liliana and Alastier but you have to remember both those characters asked for your opionion, and they took it to heart.

Now are you saying that, we shouldn't have been given that option? I would ask, Why not? It happens IRL why do you think Therapist exist, or Clergy.

Also just because you know someone for 3 days doesn't mean you know the real person. I have been with plenty of people who put on a mask in front of people and are totaly different when you get to know them. (is guilty of it myself)

[Ieldra]

Nightdragon8 wrote...
Also a "Healthy" relationship requires some compromising for both parties. Also Morigan did change, granted not alot, and yes you couldn't "Harden her" Like you could with Liliana and Alastier but you have to remember both those characters asked for your opionion, and they took it to heart.

Now are you saying that, we shouldn't have been given that option? I would ask, Why not? It happens IRL why do you think Therapist exist, or Clergy.

No, I like having that choice, as I said in the OP. My concerns are threefold:

(1) That a drastic personality shift at the PC's behest can make the NPC feel subordinate where they shouldn't, for instance in a romance. If and when this happens, it should not feel as if the PC is changing the NPC. Actually, DAO found a very good balance here.

(2) That a drastic personality shift with NO choice about it can make you "fall out of love" with a romanced character. I'm not saying that can't happen, but I feel betrayed when it happens and as a rule I do not want it.

(3) That I like morally grey characters and as a rule, I hate it if they turn into atoners, develop sudden cases of all-encompassing empathy or turn otherwise into "standard good people".

[thebigbad1013]

Characters who doesn't change from their experiences in life are unrealistic. Nobody is the same person throughout their life, that is just a fact.

As for the OP's request, I think it works perfectly well as an individual request but when you put it into the grander scheme of things it boils down to personal taste and no matter what BioWare does they will never be able to make everyone happy.

[Nightdragon8]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Nightdragon8 wrote...
Also a "Healthy" relationship requires some compromising for both parties. Also Morigan did change, granted not alot, and yes you couldn't "Harden her" Like you could with Liliana and Alastier but you have to remember both those characters asked for your opionion, and they took it to heart.

Now are you saying that, we shouldn't have been given that option? I would ask, Why not? It happens IRL why do you think Therapist exist, or Clergy.

No, I like having that choice, as I said in the OP. My concerns are threefold:

(1) That a drastic personality shift at the PC's behest can make the NPC feel subordinate where they shouldn't, for instance in a romance. If and when this happens, it should not feel as if the PC is changing the NPC. Actually, DAO found a very good balance here.

(2) That a drastic personality shift with NO choice about it can make you "fall out of love" with a romanced character. I'm not saying that can't happen, but I feel betrayed when it happens and as a rule I do not want it.

(3) That I like morally grey characters and as a rule, I hate it if they turn into atoners, develop sudden cases of all-encompassing empathy or turn otherwise into "standard good people".

1. Unless said person is a subisive kind of personality in a relatinoship (they aren't just in fantasy books...) If DA:O did it right, then what was the problem with DA2? cause IMO Meriall was a Sub personality i got the vibe that as long as she was treated decently she would do anything for Hawke, Isabella on the other hand the first sign of abuse more than likly would end up getting a knife to the back. (well as long as it wasn't just for kinkysextime that is) As for Fenris never Romanced so but from what I can see in reality he was a "Tsudere" kind of character (please google it its also on TvTropes and very well explained in what it is. As for Anders didn't romance so couldn't comment.

2. I can only assume you are taking about Anders here... tho from what I have seen is that he was always like that, its just time made him more jaded to the point where he went abd blew up the chantery. As your made that you couldn't "prevent" that sort of thing from happening... I agree but also have to say that sometimes people change even if you try to prevent that sort of thing. I can only look at my father for this has happened to him. He has become more and more angery at the world for honestly no good reason other than "This isn't how things should be" Yet doesn't vote and only broods about it to the only people he really knows "his family"

3. and here I think you are talking about Isabella. Honestly I think she was on the edge of "good people" anyway considering how she freed slaves and what not. Sure she goes aroud stealing stuff, but honestly, its like Kasumi from Mass Effect 2. She is a Theif and a pretty big one, but she doesn't steal just from anyone. I mean I dont see Isabella stealing from a poor person's home for any half baked reason. But yes she stole a religious book from the Quanri...  and she paid for it in the lost crew, and lost ship. And with being with Hawke  That with the time with him, and going around with him, made it so she grew a soft spot. That she couldn't honestly hang you out to dry.

I mean if you didn't fully Friendship her or (which this doesn't make sense) Rival her she doesn't come back for the rest of the game. And if she was a LI I think with her all the more reason she would come back. Honestly everyone thinks she is a complete ****.. which... well ... she is one, but when she starts having romanitc feelings for Hawke I'm sure that changed. After the sex scene with her you find out that in reality she is a romanitc person, I mean just look how she talks about Zeveran. Considering you end up calling her out, that she is is scared of hurting someone else, Means that in reality yes, if she was serious she would be with one person.

I mean I don't think she will stop piracy cause I think for her the Ocean is her real home so.

[Milan92]

bigbad1013 wrote...

Characters who doesn't change from their experiences in life are unrealistic. Nobody is the same person throughout their life, that is just a fact.

As for the OP's request, I think it works perfectly well as an individual request but when you put it into the grander scheme of things it boils down to personal taste and no matter what BioWare does they will never be able to make everyone happy.

This.