137 réponses à ce sujet

[ISHYGDDT]

mybudgee wrote...

Bacon is the most perfect cut of pork in the game

RIP BACON 

[BridgeBurner]

ISHYGDDT wrote...

mybudgee wrote...

Bacon is the most perfect cut of pork in the game

RIP BACON 

The pornomancer is beyond... he has ascended... he has been uplifted...

(He's on toledo garrison teamspeak, is what I mean)

[Original Twigman]

The GI is the kit that which nothing more perfect exists...

simply arguing that the GI is not perfect goes against the very definition of the GI

therefore you lose

[eighteighty]

GI with Harrier is damage city. If you can't top score with that combo you're not doing it right. Granted, you do have to sit on the ammo boxes with that increased fire rate. But - Platinum brutes go down in one clip.  Atlas goes down in three clips (takes 8 seconds).  This is with my Harrier VIII btw.

I put 30% shield booster V on him for gear bonus (well, I do for most every kit) and sometimes a cyclonic modulator. He does enough damage with the Harrier, throw shields on him and he's a platinum madman. One of my top 5 kits.

Modifié par eighteighty, 30 mai 2013 - 07:27 .

[lightswitch]

GI is also incredibly boring to play. Cloak, PM, shoot. Cloak, PM, shoot the enemy who was coming from behind because you can see through walls. Cloak, PM, shoot.

Compare that to a well designed kit like the TSent where the powers you use are actually reactions to in game events. Or the Collector Adept where you constantly have to make judgement calls as to whether you have time to cast DS, whether you should detonate, when you should refill your swarms. GI arguably takes as little knowledge of game mechanics as any other kit in the game, yet despite being so formulaic and boring he's one of the most powerful. Really it's backwards design. The kit with the most complicated cool downs and least easy to use powers should offer the highest rewards. They don't.

[Zjarcal]

ISHYGDDT wrote...

Here is a video from Hardcore Salmon where Cain mines are used instead of cobra missiles to speedrun platinum. 

Lolwtfbbq

Oh yeah, Talon merc is totally balanced and nowhere near as OP as the GI.

The real question is, would cain mines have received the krysae treatment if balance changes continued, or would they merrily go on as inferno nades? 

Modifié par Zjarcal, 30 mai 2013 - 07:38 .

[Saints]

Generic comment that implies that the GI is boring to play.

[Ashen One]

Cirvante wrote...

I disagree with the statement that the GI takes very little skill. I use him a lot and find him very easy to play despite his squishiness, but neither I nor Lightswitch for example represent the majority of the player base. When you go into PuGs you can see TGIs and AIUs with Grenade Capacity V kiss the ground 50% of the match. And they are using Harriers and Reegars, which are stupidly overpowered on these kits.

Give those players a GI with 350-700 shields and no free shield recharge/revive and they will spent 90% of every game in spectator mode. There is a reason why he is not overplayed like the other kits I mentioned. It's easy for us to say that he takes little skill, when we actually have a lot of skill.

lol "skill" in PvE games

[eighteighty]

lightswitch wrote...

GI is also incredibly boring to play. Cloak, PM, shoot. Cloak, PM, shoot the enemy who was coming from behind because you can see through walls. Cloak, PM, shoot.

Compare that to a well designed kit like the TSent where the powers you use are actually reactions to in game events. Or the Collector Adept where you constantly have to make judgement calls as to whether you have time to cast DS, whether you should detonate, when you should refill your swarms. GI arguably takes as little knowledge of game mechanics as any other kit in the game, yet despite being so formulaic and boring he's one of the most powerful. Really it's backwards design. The kit with the most complicated cool downs and least easy to use powers should offer the highest rewards. They don't.

GI takes twitch.  Not anyone can play him well and survive.

[dysturbed0ne]

lightswitch wrote...

GI is also incredibly boring to play. Cloak, PM, shoot. Cloak, PM, shoot the enemy who was coming from behind because you can see through walls. Cloak, PM, shoot.

Compare that to a well designed kit like the TSent where the powers you use are actually reactions to in game events. Or the Collector Adept where you constantly have to make judgement calls as to whether you have time to cast DS, whether you should detonate, when you should refill your swarms. GI arguably takes as little knowledge of game mechanics as any other kit in the game, yet despite being so formulaic and boring he's one of the most powerful. Really it's backwards design. The kit with the most complicated cool downs and least easy to use powers should offer the highest rewards. They don't.

Now you are just throwing things out there for the sake of arguing. Every kit you see played well is just basically repetitive button pushing. The GI doesn't just stand in the middle of the map, aim and push a three button combination.

[HolyAvenger]

ISHYGDDT wrote...
*snip*

something something grenade gear

 

You don't have to tell me about grenade gear dude, I've been arguing grenade cap V broke the game since day 1. I've mentioned to several people that the first thing I would do in Eric F's shoes would be to remove it from the game (yes, even before fixing geth stunlock). 

The fact that grenade cap is broken and stupid game design does not excuse the idiocy that is handing the GI it's perfect powerset.

[Reizo Ryuu]

NuclearTech76 wrote...

Reizo Ryuu wrote...

Huntress and Fury synergise much better than the GI.

No.

GI is effectively a single CD and one streamlined DPS machine that uses each and every power every cloak cycle to destroy the enemy.

....And the Huntress and Fury somehow don't? My bonus power Huntress uses all powers in one cloak cycle and also happens to kill platinum bosses in that same cloak cycle thanks to her ridiculous DoT, The fury can just biotic explode forever because throw resets the CD all the while dark channel is killing something else.
Meanwhile the GI fires his proxy mine during cloak....you just described the synergy of every single infiltrator.

[ISHYGDDT]

HolyAvenger wrote...

ISHYGDDT wrote...
*snip*

something something grenade gear

 

You don't have to tell me about grenade gear dude, I've been arguing grenade cap V broke the game since day 1. I've mentioned to several people that the first thing I would do in Eric F's shoes would be to remove it from the game (yes, even before fixing geth stunlock). 

The fact that grenade cap is broken and stupid game design does not excuse the idiocy that is handing the GI it's perfect powerset.

Yes, but that definition of overpowered is subjective, i.e. you feel the game becomes too easy with a GI.  I am making a very simple statement: GI is not out of the norm in terms of power, therefore it is not overpowered with respect to its peers.  If you feel the game as a whole has become too easy, I more or less agree with you, but thats a separate issue. 

[oO Stryfe Oo]

Reizo Ryuu wrote...

NuclearTech76 wrote...

Reizo Ryuu wrote...

Huntress and Fury synergise much better than the GI.

No.

GI is effectively a single CD and one streamlined DPS machine that uses each and every power every cloak cycle to destroy the enemy.

....And the Huntress and Fury somehow don't? My bonus power Huntress uses all powers in one cloak cycle and also happens to kill platinum bosses in that same cloak cycle thanks to her ridiculous DoT, The fury can just biotic explode forever because throw resets the CD all the while dark channel is killing something else.
Meanwhile the GI fires his proxy mine during cloak....you just described the synergy of every single infiltrator.

Meh...I think the Valkyrie synergizes better.

[oO Stryfe Oo]

dysturbed0ne wrote...

He really was a well made kit. To be as OP (in the right hands) as he has been since the beginning, but still one of the lesser used kits says it all.

Yep. Pretty sure the devs saw it the same way.

[HolyAvenger]

Mostly I was just disagreeing with NuclearTech's argument that three powers that work ridiculously well together is good game design. I don't think it is. The kit doesn't really have a downside.

Grenade characters and power levels are a side issue. The game is too easy to trivialise for experienced players virtually regardless of character chosen.

[Reizo Ryuu]

oO Stryfe Oo wrote...

Meh...I think the Valkyrie synergizes better.

Oh she's great too, especially because of warp+incendiary+reegar cheese toppings=]

[oO Stryfe Oo]

ISHYGDDT wrote...

lightswitch wrote...

ISHYGDDT wrote...

lightswitch wrote...

If I had written this topic I would have named it "The GI is the most unbalanced kit in the game." 

Grenade spam says hi.

Grenade spam doesn't do everything better than everyone else.

Grenade spam doesn't have to do everything better than everyone else: it depletes the wave budget faster than everyone else, which is the real metric for OPness in this game.  Furthermore, it requires only the skill of spawn prediction, which is also a requisite of success with every other kit as well.  

Yup...I'd go as far as to say it doesn't require any skill at all.

1. Equip grenade gear.
2. Throw grenades at anything that moves.
3. Win.

[Malanek]

NuclearTech76 wrote...
He is stupidly OP in the right hands yet sucks in the hands of crappy players unlike the Ghost, AIU, etc.

Only if you don't put on a Cyclonic Modulator IV. With that on the kit literally has no weakness.

[oO Stryfe Oo]

Reizo Ryuu wrote...

oO Stryfe Oo wrote...

Meh...I think the Valkyrie synergizes better.

Oh she's great too, especially because of warp+incendiary+reegar cheese toppings=]

Don't know how to do that glitch, and it bothers me that people assume this is the only way to play her.

All I'm saying is that all three of her powers work in conjunction with each other for max CQC ability. They can all be used at the same time, and she's pretty much only got one power that needs to be used constantly. Try her without the cheese for once.

[ISHYGDDT]

HolyAvenger wrote...

Mostly I was just disagreeing with NuclearTech's argument that three powers that work ridiculously well together is good game design. I don't think it is. The kit doesn't really have a downside.
 

In some ways though that's tactical cloak's fault, the normal downside of 3 great powers together is that you end up having 0 to 3 points in fitness and have to make the choice between which 2 you want to spam at any given time.  Tactical cloak has 3 flaws:
1.  You get to fire off your power during cloak without specifically speccing bonus power.
2.  You only need to invest 4 points into cloak if you don't care about sniping.
3.  You get power/melee damage bonus from Cloak as well

Modifié par ISHYGDDT, 30 mai 2013 - 09:26 .

[Original Twigman]

HolyAvenger wrote...

Mostly I was just disagreeing with NuclearTech's argument that three powers that work ridiculously well together is good game design. I don't think it is. The kit doesn't really have a downside.

Grenade characters and power levels are a side issue. The game is too easy to trivialise for experienced players virtually regardless of character chosen.

Invalid argument. The GI is more perfect than anything you can possibly imagine, therefore anything that suggests its imperfect is wrong.

you lose

[Reizo Ryuu]

oO Stryfe Oo wrote...

Reizo Ryuu wrote...

oO Stryfe Oo wrote...

Meh...I think the Valkyrie synergizes better.

Oh she's great too, especially because of warp+incendiary+reegar cheese toppings=]

Don't know how to do that glitch, and it bothers me that people assume this is the only way to play her.

All I'm saying is that all three of her powers work in conjunction with each other for max CQC ability. They can all be used at the same time, and she's pretty much only got one power that needs to be used constantly. Try her without the cheese for once.

I have actually, I normally run her with raider+warp ammo, but I do enjoy me some good cheese from time to time.

[oO Stryfe Oo]

lightswitch wrote...

Not really, they're just designed with some concept of balance. I can think of only one or two kits where I spec entirely out of one of the powers. There's only two possibilities here:

1. The GI is truly the perfectly designed kit. All kits should attempt to recreate his level of synergy.
2. The GI is unbalanced and poorly designed.

I'm fairly certain that if #1 was done, the game would be absolutely broken. Designing a kit that can do everything by itself in a co-op game is a bad idea.

Well, the game is already pretty broken...

Look, the GI is a well-designed kit. He only seems OP because his synergy is all DPS-based. Honestly, given the fact that he's a robot, I'd say such focus on efficiency kinda makes sense.

Besides, he can't do everything by himself. He can only do the parts that matter. Which is why he's so good.

[MaxCrushmore]

The GI is the best boss killer in the game (and very good at wiping out mooks .. top tier for sure, but not the best)

As far as perfection, he's my favorite character, so yes, he's perfect

There seem to be 2 debates in this thread however .. 1 re the GI, and 1 re "OPness"

My 2 cents on OPness ... those that whine that the GI is too OP haven't seen a grenade spamming vanguard in skilled hands then ...