1082 réponses à ce sujet

[Cainhurst Crow]

Lt_Riley wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Lt_Riley wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Lt_Riley wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

No matter how bad mages get, I can't imagine that "turn them all into living realdolls for my personal pleasure" could ever be 'justified'.

They summoned pride demons at the docks while innocent people scurried about. That most definitely justifies tranquility if not execution.

Some mages did that. I don't support guilt by association.

That's just the thing. Considering the number of secret blood mages in thrask coup and all the blood mages that poured out during merediths purge, gilt by association goes right out the window. There's no way that level of blood magic is operating in the tower and the mages living there didn't know what was up. Those that didn't come forward are just as guilty as those practicing.

Isn't that assuming that the mages were blood mages before the rite of annulment was activated and that they didn't simply turn to blood magic when faced with the choice of survival or utter annihilation? In multiple portions of DA2, we see how mages can end up tapping into blood magic and become abominations when their life is threatened, so why would it not happen here?

Demonology isn't something a mage picks up in a few seconds. That's a subject that's studied and practiced way before hand.

I guess it depends on weather thrask daughter was a blood mage or not. Judgeing from what I saw and learned in game, I'm guessing not.

[PlasmaCheese]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Lobotomizing someone into being an emotionless  obedient doll with their original mind trapped inside is horrendous and certainly not justifed, no matter what that person has done.

Execution is a far greater mercy.

The Tranquil themselves don't seem to mind. They mind when you turn them back, but not while they're Tranquil. (They might mind before, too, but I'd argue you're right that they should be allowed to choose death if that's the case.)

That is not a justification; their original minds are still there, they are simply trapped and cannot do anything. Seeing the reactions from the few mages who are made Tranquil  then regained their minds it is is very obvious they would rather die than live such a fate. It's incredibly cruel and disturbing the Chantry allows this and tries to justify doing such a horrible thing to people. Just makes it obvious to me they need to do some serious reforming or get taken down.

edit: blargh wtf is with me today

Wait, was that in Asunder? I didn't read that one. If it's true that the mage is able to feel the horror of what they've become, then yes, I'd say this changes things.

This is shown in DA2 when Anders's friend (forgot his name) regains his mind briefly after contact with Justice.

[Lt_Riley]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

It most certainly does not, the one who actually kills the person commits the greater act.

Indeed it does. If you know innocent people are going to be killed by a madman and you just sit on your hands and do nothing while the act comes to pass, then you're just as big a monster as they are. Even bigger because you could've altered the fate of those innocent people but you chose not to. Anyone mage/templar/ect who doesn't come forward with dangerous knowledge deserves to hang at the gallows right next to the criminal.

[PlasmaCheese]

There are mages who become Tranquil willingly because they are afraid and/or feel they wouldn't pass the Harrowing, anyway. That was mentioned by, IIRC, some Tranquil woman in DAO. I'd love to see how those few would react if they got a glimmer of their "old selves" again.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

I guess it depends on weather thrask daughter was a blood mage or not. Judgeing from what I saw and learned in game, I'm guessing not.

That's not provably demonology. Summoning demons is demonology, getting posessed by one accidentally is not. So unless Olivia purposely got posessed, it's not demonology.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

PlasmaCheese wrote...


This is shown in DA2 when Anders's friend (forgot his name) regains his mind briefly after contact with Justice.

To the best of my knowledge, that's still consistent with the mage not being fully aware of the horror of what happened to him while he's Tranquil. It's only while he's got his emotions back that he is aware of how messed up it is not to have emotions.

PlasmaCheese wrote...

There are mages who become Tranquil willingly because they are afraid and/or feel they wouldn't pass the Harrowing, anyway. That was mentioned by, IIRC, some Tranquil woman in DAO. I'd love to see how those few would react if they got a glimmer of their "old selves" again.

One could as easily argue that that justifies not giving them that glimmer of their old selves back, unless the original non-Tranquil is still alive in there as Kiwi asserts. They have reasons not to want to die, they aren't really scared by Tranquility, and unless they get that glimmer there's no reason things couldn't stay that way in the absence of that Tranquil feeling the horror of it all on some level.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 31 mai 2013 - 01:19 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

I guess it depends on weather thrask daughter was a blood mage or not. Judgeing from what I saw and learned in game, I'm guessing not.

That's not provably demonology. Summoning demons is demonology, getting posessed by one accidentally is not. So unless Olivia purposely got posessed, it's not demonology.

She was going to be killed and or have terrible things done to her, she might have turned to becoming possessed as a means of defending herself. And those who become possessed seem more than capable of summoning more demons into the world.

[KiwiQuiche]

Lt_Riley wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

It most certainly does not, the one who actually kills the person commits the greater act.

Indeed it does. If you know innocent people are going to be killed by a madman and you just sit on your hands and do nothing while the act comes to pass, then you're just as big a monster as they are. Even bigger because you could've altered the fate of those innocent people but you chose not to. Anyone mage/templar/ect who doesn't come forward with dangerous knowledge deserves to hang at the gallows right next to the criminal.

What? That is ridiculous that you feel that someone who does nothing is even worse than the person killing another. The person who is taking a life is worse, not the person who doesn't want to become a part of it.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

I guess it depends on weather thrask daughter was a blood mage or not. Judgeing from what I saw and learned in game, I'm guessing not.

That's not provably demonology. Summoning demons is demonology, getting posessed by one accidentally is not. So unless Olivia purposely got posessed, it's not demonology.

She was going to be killed and or have terrible things done to her, she might have turned to becoming possessed as a means of defending herself. And those who become possessed seem more than capable of summoning more demons into the world.

My point is that she didn't provably resort to summoning a demon, which as far as I'm aware is what "demonology" is. It could have happened accidentally. Thus she can't be used as evidence that its easy to summon a demon on purpose in the absence of evidence that she did so on purpose.

[Lt_Riley]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Lt_Riley wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

It most certainly does not, the one who actually kills the person commits the greater act.

Indeed it does. If you know innocent people are going to be killed by a madman and you just sit on your hands and do nothing while the act comes to pass, then you're just as big a monster as they are. Even bigger because you could've altered the fate of those innocent people but you chose not to. Anyone mage/templar/ect who doesn't come forward with dangerous knowledge deserves to hang at the gallows right next to the criminal.

What? That is ridiculous that you feel that someone who does nothing is even worse than the person killing another. The person who is taking a life is worse, not the person who doesn't want to become a part of it.

Oh so you just sit there and let innocent people die because it would inconvenience you to allow them the chance to live? That is...... WOW. I don't believe monster is a great enough word.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Lt_Riley wrote...

Oh so you just sit there and let innocent people die because it would inconvenience you to allow them the chance to live? That is...... WOW. I don't believe monster is a great enough word.

That's not what Kiwi is saying. She's just saying its not the same level as evil to actively kill someone as to allow it.

[Lt_Riley]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Lt_Riley wrote...

Oh so you just sit there and let innocent people die because it would inconvenience you to allow them the chance to live? That is...... WOW. I don't believe monster is a great enough word.

That's not what Kiwi is saying. She's just saying its not the same level as evil to actively kill someone as to allow it.

That's exactly what she's saying. She's saying people who don't want to come forward with dangerous knowledge, because they don't want to get involved in the matter are not guilty like the person committing the act. That's terrible.

[KiwiQuiche]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Lt_Riley wrote...

Oh so you just sit there and let innocent people die because it would inconvenience you to allow them the chance to live? That is...... WOW. I don't believe monster is a great enough word.

That's not what Kiwi is saying. She's just saying its not the same level as evil to actively kill someone as to allow it.

That is exactly what I'm trying to say, thank you River.

Yes, I think you misinterpreted my comment, Riley.

[lil yonce]

"There are two kinds of evil people in this world. People who do evil stuff, and people who see evil stuff being done and don't try to stop it." /MeanGirlswisdom. *shrug* I love that movie.

[KiwiQuiche]

Lt_Riley wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Lt_Riley wrote...

Oh so you just sit there and let innocent people die because it would inconvenience you to allow them the chance to live? That is...... WOW. I don't believe monster is a great enough word.

That's not what Kiwi is saying. She's just saying its not the same level as evil to actively kill someone as to allow it.

That's exactly what she's saying. She's saying people who don't want to come forward with dangerous knowledge, because they don't want to get involved in the matter are not guilty like the person committing the act. That's terrible.

That is not what I said. Stop assuming that I did. I am saying the one who killed the people is the person who is more dangerous and guilty than the ones who stood by.

[Plaintiff]

Youth4Ever wrote...

"There are two kinds of evil people in this world. People who do evil stuff, and people who see evil stuff being done and don't try to stop it." /MeanGirlswisdom. *shrug* I love that movie.

Oh my God, Youth4Ever. You can't just quote movies in a videogame thread.

[Lt_Riley]

KiwiQuiche wrote...


That is not what I said. Stop assuming that I did. I am saying the one who killed the people is the person who is more dangerous and guilty than the ones who stood by.

What? That is ridiculous that you feel that someone who does nothing is
even worse than the person killing another. The person who is taking a
life is worse, not the person who doesn't want to become a part of it.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Plaintiff wrote...

Youth4Ever wrote...

"There are two kinds of evil people in this world. People who do evil stuff, and people who see evil stuff being done and don't try to stop it." /MeanGirlswisdom. *shrug* I love that movie.

Oh my God, Youth4Ever. You can't just quote movies in a videogame thread.

He's right you know.

[KiwiQuiche]

Lt_Riley wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...


That is not what I said. Stop assuming that I did. I am saying the one who killed the people is the person who is more dangerous and guilty than the ones who stood by.

What? That is ridiculous that you feel that someone who does nothing is
even worse than the person killing another. The person who is taking a
life is worse, not the person who doesn't want to become a part of it.

I never stated the one who doesn't get involved/tell someone gets off scot-free, which is what you assume I think. I do not, I think they should be punished, yet not to the extent of the person who actually killed another person.

You misinterpreted what I wrote as something else.

[PlasmaCheese]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

To the best of my knowledge, that's still consistent with the mage not being fully aware of the horror of what happened to him while he's Tranquil. It's only while he's got his emotions back that he is aware of how messed up it is not to have emotions.

True. I'm not arguing otherwise. Just giving an in-game example of this. Hell, he begs Anders to kill him before he became a husk again.

One could as easily argue that that justifies not giving them that glimmer of their old selves back, unless the original non-Tranquil is still alive in there as Kiwi asserts. They have reasons not to want to die, they aren't really scared by Tranquility, and unless they get that glimmer there's no reason things couldn't stay that way in the absence of that Tranquil feeling the horror of it all on some level.

There would be NO reason to show it beyond my satisfaction, lol. I wanna see a willing Tranquil go crazy. Like the Awakened Mother.

[lil yonce]

Plaintiff wrote...

Youth4Ever wrote...

"There are two kinds of evil people in this world. People who do evil stuff, and people who see evil stuff being done and don't try to stop it." /MeanGirlswisdom. *shrug* I love that movie.

Oh my God, Youth4Ever. You can't just quote movies in a videogame thread.

Boo, you wh*re. 

[Lt_Riley]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Lt_Riley wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...


That is not what I said. Stop assuming that I did. I am saying the one who killed the people is the person who is more dangerous and guilty than the ones who stood by.

What? That is ridiculous that you feel that someone who does nothing is
even worse than the person killing another. The person who is taking a
life is worse, not the person who doesn't want to become a part of it.

I never stated the one who doesn't get involved/tell someone gets off scot-free, which is what you assume I think. I do not, I think they should be punished, yet not to the extent of the person who actually killed another person.

You misinterpreted what I wrote as something else.

Au I see

[Avaflame]

Lt_Riley wrote...

Actually you missed where I said by end game.

No, actually I didn't miss anything. Once again, it seems you did, and once again it seems on purpose. The only difference this time is I've made sure to take note of your username so I can avoid wasting my time in the future.

[Lt_Riley]

Avaflame wrote...

Lt_Riley wrote...

Actually you missed where I said by end game.

No, actually I didn't miss anything. Once again, it seems you did, and once again it seems on purpose. The only difference this time is I've made sure to take note of your username so I can avoid wasting my time in the future.

Oh so that bit of business in the other thread has got your knickers in a twist. Well you can continue being sore and petty all your own. I have no time for grudges. moving on.

[Hazegurl]

Ravensword wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

As long as the Qun is portrayed as the ones who will conquer both, I'm all good.

I'm down with the Qun if they handle the mages properly.