1082 réponses à ce sujet

[Lulupab]

If you kill all mages I will find a dreamer for Justice to posses. He will not seek selfish things like demons. He will kill all templars in their dreams in one night. Mage Templar war solved easily without any none mage none-templar people dying.

[Naitaka]

Don't worry, in DA:I I'm sure we'll be able to scientifically determine the likelihood of a mage turning to blood magic by measuring the dimension of their skull and it would be as simple as to implementing a "solution" based on the result.

[K_Tabris]

For supposedly portraying everything as grey, there sure are more than enough examples of extremists for every mage/templar. It would be nice to see mages who just want to live normal lives, rather than every single one succumbing to demons and blood magic like druggies to crack.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Here we go, just one step away from the comparisons with a certain political party.

[Aolbain]

arhg- wrong post!

Modifié par Aolbain, 30 mai 2013 - 09:35 .

[Lt_Riley]

The Hierophant wrote...

Lt_Riley wrote...

I've just finished reading until we sleep #3 and I have to say Mr. Gaider; I am not happy with the way mages were portrayed as demonic worshippers who enslaved mankind, commanded legions of demon underlings and had dragon sentinels frying anyone who got out of line; while the templar in shining armor was praised as the grand hero for putting the evil mages down like animals to restore peace & justice. Why is it always painted this way?

Did you even read the codex entries on the Tevinter Imperium before reading the comics? The Tevinter were depicted as an imperialistic nation that was built on the backs of slaves since DAO dropped  in 2009. Complaining about the Imperium's negative portrayal now is like complaining about Darth Sidious being a tyrant years after watching all the Star Wars films.

Plus the Templars had intentional negative portrayals too. Just because there are mages who are evil doesn't mean that the abuse of the innocent by Templars like Alrik was depicted as justifiable or ok by the writers.

Of course, I've read all the codex entries in Dao and Da2. But that wasn't the imperium. I'm not condoning or complaining about titus practices, specifically. I'm just saying, when compared to the templar, the scene is always biased against mages.

[IanPolaris]

Seboist wrote...

After seeing what a mage did to Hawke's mum and with Orsino's complicity there was no doubt in my mind that the only good mage is a dead or tranquil one.  I didn't even have a second thought with regards to handing over Bethany to Meredith.

Hawke's mother was murdered by a man who was clearly a few cans short of a six-pack.  The fact he was a mage was and is largely irrelevant.  (It wasn't magic that killed Hawke's mother, it was a nutty criminal that wanted to cut up older women in a demented believe in reconstructing his dead wife that was responsible.)

Honestly the entire scene and plot-line was an all too obvious and cheap attempt to pull at your emotions and yes to give you a reason to hate mages.  Franken-mommy?  Really Bioware?

-Polaris

[Nole]

IanPolaris wrote...

WittingEight65 wrote...

The templars were incompetents. If I have the chance of create a new order to rule the mages in DA3 I'll do it.

Sure, I can even guess what your solution would be:  Kill everyone with magic in their family.  The maker will know his own.

Nice.

-Polaris

Actually, I would somehow give them the illusion of freedom by letting them see their relatives, go around once a week and stuff so they don't go crazy. But they HAVE to be imprisoned and isolated from the the rest of the people.

Modifié par WittingEight65, 30 mai 2013 - 09:40 .

[Aolbain]

Scarlet Rabbi wrote...

If Templars have the power (as they did up until the end of DA2), then it sucks for mages. No getting around that. Some Templars are doubtless xenophobic monsters, and will abuse their power and the people they reign over. But the rest of the non-magic, majority population is at least midly safe from the most depraved magic out there, and the destruction one corrupt mage could unleash would make 100 crooked Templars look like saints.

On the other hand, without Templars, another Imperium could and will rise up, with world domination easily at their fingertips. This issue isn't simple, and isn't black and white; but to me, one side is clearly the logical choice.

Situations like the mage/Templar one in Kirkwall are hard to stomach, especially with mages being tortured, sexually assualted and even outright murdered by a minority of Templars, but what is the Alternative? Look at Grace, the mage in DA2. Even if you free her, she will still be after your blood in Act 3. And the harsh reality is that one angry blood mage is more frieghtning and much more capable of wreaking havoc than an entire army of Templars. Freedom is a noble idea, but when magic is involved you must attend to reality and push emotions aside.

I mean, what's wose? A Templar who has a bad day and takes it out on a defenseless mage, perhaps killing them in process, or a mage who has a bad day and blows up a building full of innocent people, most of them passive, female priests?

This. A great majority of the mages has done nothing to deserve the circle (a comfortable prison at best, a living hell at worst) and would hurt no one if they were allowed to live freely.But the price of not keeping the mages imprisoned is to grave.

[Naitaka]

KallianaTabris wrote...

For supposedly portraying everything as grey, there sure are more than enough examples of extremists for every mage/templar. It would be nice to see mages who just want to live normal lives, rather than every single one succumbing to demons and blood magic like druggies to crack.

I know this isn't exactly the best example, but Jowan, despite resorting to Blood Mage, did just want to lead a normal life and if you let him go free, he can even be found helping people if I remember correctly.

[Melra]

It's like... their game and their universe you know? They're allowed to potray the factions and characters in it as they please.

[Lt_Riley]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

I love how entirely wrong the OP is, tis hilarious.

I find it funny you state that as an absolute, without providing any points of clarification.

[IanPolaris]

KallianaTabris wrote...

For supposedly portraying everything as grey, there sure are more than enough examples of extremists for every mage/templar. It would be nice to see mages who just want to live normal lives, rather than every single one succumbing to demons and blood magic like druggies to crack.

The reason they didn't do that was because in Bioware's opinion based on online game feedback, far too many people were siding with the mages.  I didn't say that.  Bioware themselves admitted this.  Thus they 'stacked the deck' in the game and how mages were protrayed after DAO.

Here's a clue:  If that's the case, maybe the original conflict wasn't as grey as you thought it was.

-Polaris

[Seboist]

Naitaka wrote...

Don't worry, in DA:I I'm sure we'll be able to scientifically determine the likelihood of a mage turning to blood magic by measuring the dimension of their skull and it would be as simple as to implementing a "solution" based on the result.

Sounds like a good plan to me.

[dunstan1993]

Filament wrote...

dunstan1993 wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

dunstan1993 wrote...

There's an elephant in the room, anyone want to hazard a guess as to what it is?

Anders make things go boom?

What did Anders make go boom Jimmy, come on you're nearly there!

I knew it, the Chantry is an Asian Elephant.

Close enough.

[IanPolaris]

Melrache wrote...

It's like... their game and their universe you know? They're allowed to potray the factions and characters in it as they please.

Yes, up to a point.  The problem is that how mages are protraryed changed greatly after DAO and DAA and in ways not consistant with their own game lore.

-Polaris

[Cainhurst Crow]

The templars operate like any other security force that has or ever will exist. They protect the majority of people by ensuring people who are deemed threats to their safety or the safety and stability of the state are kept in check and kept from being a threat to human beings as much as possible. It sucks, it is probably one of the worst situations imaginable that mages must be kept a watch over simply becasue they possess power, but that is the only option. The only other way to stop a mage from being a threat to others is to create a means by which mages can't access their powers whenever they please without any means of stopping them. You can take away a persons sword and give it back to them any time, you can't do that to a mage without making them tranquil, and that is not an option, even to the majority of templars.

You will have templars who are corrupt, but the majority of them are not bad people, nor corrupt monsters, nor evil slave master style tyrants. Most are just people who believe in protecting others, and who don't even want to keep mages in their state, but don't have an alternative.

Equally, mages are susceptible to being controlled and corrupted in their dreams from outside attacks on their psyche. Most mages do not wish to embrace this evil power, and I bet most don't even wish to hurt everyone, but just like how not every templar is a upstanding person, neither is every mage a good person. You will have evil, twisted people, who probably would have been just as sick as they are now even without their magic. These people aren't this way because of magic, it just happens that magic gives them a means to having power that outmatches almost anyone around them. These evil people will always ruin things for everyone, just like how the presences of evil and corrupt templars ruins everyones perceptions of them as well. But even more sad, is that mages don't even have to truely willingly accept deals with demons in order to be turned into abominations. Most of the abominations seem to have been forced into becoming them when the demons came to them at oppurtune times and emotional distress. They are a constant temptation, and should the mage ever lapse in their control or restraint, they could end up turning into a true monster. That is why the templars are needed, because abominations really are a grave and serious problem, and it would be better to ensure that the majority of mages were able to survive rather than have mages try and cope with this task without guidance from their fellow mages and a force capable of fighting off a demon and keeping the other mages safe from it.

That's what I got from the dragon age series, it's not about whether you are a templar or a mage because good and bad people come in all walks of life and in all civilizations and cultures. It's not as simple as sith vs jedi, or autobot vs decepticon, these are two sides who really are not inherently good or bad. What I don't get is how the OP thinks that templars are sooooooooo much more glorified or how the OP thinks mages are soooooooooo demonized when the two seemed to be portrayed more realistically than most games, movies, shows, or books portray their two faction conflicts.

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 30 mai 2013 - 09:47 .

[Ravensword]

Melrache wrote...

It's like... their game and their universe you know? They're allowed to potray the factions and characters in it as they please.

You do have a point. Also, it's most certainly their prerogative to employ "artistic integrity" in this game as well.

[TheBlackBaron]

Please stop portraying mages as heroic freedom fighters that don't want to hurt anybody and Templars as evil-for-its-own-sake oppressors.

/balance

[Mr.House]

IanPolaris wrote...

Melrache wrote...

It's like... their game and their universe you know? They're allowed to potray the factions and characters in it as they please.

Yes, up to a point.  The problem is that how mages are protraryed changed greatly after DAO and DAA and in ways not consistant with their own game lore.

-Polaris

I found they where protrayed just fine in Asunder, like the templars.

[billy the squid]

Templars are never portrayed as heroes, more a necessary evil, a bulk ward against the insidious and corrupt existence of mages and their corrosive impact on society if they were allowed free reign.

[K_Tabris]

IanPolaris wrote...


Here's a clue:  If that's the case, maybe the original conflict wasn't as grey as you thought it was.

-Polaris

If by original conflict, you refer to the mages of DA2, then I agree with you. However, in DAO, the plight of mages is much more diverse and not as clear. 

I do remember the writer's admitting that they portrayed mages the way they did in DA2 to balance players' views of the mage-templar struggle. I also think that people project  an underdog image onto them that more appropriately belong to the elves (after all, mages are incredibly powerful, far from helples etc. etc.)  But what I don't want to see in DA:I is a bias towards one side or another.

TheBlackBaron wrote...

Please stop portraying mages as heroic freedom fighters that don't want to hurt anybody and Templars as evil-for-its-own-sake oppressors. 

/balance

Also this.

Modifié par KallianaTabris, 30 mai 2013 - 09:45 .

[The Hierophant]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

Please stop portraying mages as heroic freedom fighters that don't want to hurt anybody and Templars as evil-for-its-own-sake oppressors.

/balance

Nah, balance is overrated

[Lt_Riley]

Melrache wrote...

It's like... their game and their universe you know? They're allowed to potray the factions and characters in it as they please.

Players are paying for that universe so they can keep expanding it. And as such, those same players have a right to voice concerns about the lore should they arise. This shut up and be grateful for what you get buisness you're implying is not the way to build a healthy developer/fan relationship.

[Aolbain]

Lt_Riley wrote...

Melrache wrote...

It's like... their game and their universe you know? They're allowed to potray the factions and characters in it as they please.

Players are paying for that universe so they can keep expanding it. And as such, those same players have a right to voice concerns about the lore should they arise. This shut up and be grateful for what you get buisness you're implying is not the way to build a healthy developer/fan relationship.

Tis has nothing to do with developer/fan relationships. This is you teling them your headcanon (mages good, templars evil) is better than their universe.