216 réponses à ce sujet

[PlasmaCheese]

Wait, whoooa. I thought the Darkspawn forced women to consume their...excrements..Blllaarrghhh...and drinking/eating darkspawn..excrement.. >< is what made them Broodmothers.. I always felt like that was rape, in a way, but not directly. =(

[bucketOFme]

PlasmaCheese wrote...

Wait, whoooa. I thought the Darkspawn forced women to consume their...excrements..Blllaarrghhh...and drinking/eating darkspawn..excrement.. >< is what made them Broodmothers.. I always felt like that was rape, in a way, but not directly. =(

I'm not clear on it but it's sickening either way 

that's a question for Gaider-sempai

[lil yonce]

Isn't Hawke essentially sold into slavery voluntarily to get into Kirkwall?

[bEVEsthda]

Youth4Ever wrote...

Isn't Hawke essentially sold into slavery voluntarily to get into Kirkwall?

Well, that would mostly be up to a discussion about whether or not "slavery" is an apt term for that period of service.
Just saying. I won't involve myself.

[lil yonce]

Indentured servitude or rather slave for X amount of time?

[kinderschlager]

 just started reading this and agree with everything said, kudo's OP

Modifié par kinderschlager, 31 mai 2013 - 04:03 .

[kinderschlager]

Volus Warlord wrote...

DatOneFanboy wrote...

id like that Should just keep pushing the game to 18+ making it more realistic

LOLZ!

Bioware is NEVER going to make an 18+ game. It'd hurt sales. A lot. 

I'm surprised they never tried to push down to a T rating for that reason.

I can see how dark elements would make a game more appealing to certain folk. However, they are not targeting certain folk, they are targeting EVERYONE. Bioware is not trying to make niche games. They are trying to make games with a more diverse clientelle in mind. 

You see, some of the dark elements you would love someone else would hate, and refuse to buy the game on that standard alone. As a result, those dark elements tend to make the game more and more niche, as again what will really appeal to some will turn others off.

Also, you tend to get these annoying ass activist groups targeting your game for whatever. We saw this with Tomb Raider in which a TRAILER-not the game-had something that could be readily construed as an attempted rape scene. We saw something similar with ME1. Or  loads of other stuff. 

So no to darker elements is far more likely for financial reasons and PR reasons. If they exist, they will be handled carefully, severely watered down, and/or pandered to death. 

this is by far one of the most annoying things about modern society, someones always telling others what's right or wrong and what they should or should not do. no one ****es this much over say...game of thrones content (murder, rape, incest, the list goes on) but stick it in a VG and everyone goes bat**** crazy over it

[kinderschlager]

ArcaneJTM wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

ArcaneJTM wrote...

You forgot lollygagging. 

Keep the ugly Skyrim from DAI

So what you're saying is "No lollygagging." 

lol, that got a laugh:D

[kinderschlager]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Qistina wrote...

Rape issue can be grey

...that has to be one of the most disturbing things I've read all day, and I've dealt with David. Just no.

And I don't want Bioware cramming in more 'rape and drugs' just to seem mature. It's like all the people barking for Witcher sex in DAI. Just stop it.

lol, those conversations where funny, and you my good sir/madam are too judgmental. what is the point of a VG if not to let people poke around at those ideas/practices RL has dictated as off limits?

[kinderschlager]

bucketOFme wrote...

I was just thinking of all the implied rape that's happend in DA and there was quite a bit.
The first thing to come to mind was the quest in DA2 where the um...um kinda imporant guy's son, is crazy and kidnaps elven children. Then in the books, Chevalliar rape is implied in The Stolen Throne, and slave rape is heavily implied in The Calling when they are in the Fade. Then the Female City Elf Origin. Don't the darkspawn rape the girls to turn them into broodmothers? and I think Gaider said something about Fenris being sexually abused??? I have not seen the OP but there was a buzz on tumblr about it at one point I do believe.
You can accidently sleep with Zevern 
...but I don't count that to offical rape list.

But I kinda enjoy the darker themes 
I think DA:O had the perfect amount of dark, but if it had a bit more then it wouldn't have hurt.
I think DA2 had some dark...but it was a bit muddled by all the brown.
I would enjoy DA:I being a bit darker than both of them...just not...pitch black.

Cullen is suppose to be a companion for DA:I right? Or at least rumored. We could get a deeper insight of lyrium addiction through him.

wait, what!??!

[Beerfish]

I thought this thread was going to be about the McRib.

[mousestalker]

Mc Ribs can be sweet, but the most unsavoury thing on the planet is the Krispy Kreme donut.

[Fast Jimmy]

mousestalker wrote...

Mc Ribs can be sweet, but the most unsavoury thing on the planet is the Krispy Kreme donut.

Krispy Kreme and McRibs qualify as drugs. Ergo, they are covered under the original OP! 

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 01 juin 2013 - 01:15 .

[Beerfish]

mousestalker wrote...

Mc Ribs can be sweet, but the most unsavoury thing on the planet is the Krispy Kreme donut.

 

McRibs = pressed gristle into patty form with bbq sauce that tastes like what comes out of a babys diaper after feeding it creamed peas.

[Cainhurst Crow]

I think if they do it, they need to do it right, and not fall into the trap of many other shows, movies, comics, etc, who try to cover these topics and making them overly shocking or dramatic to the point it becomes ridiculous.

[Plaintiff]

Beerfish wrote...

mousestalker wrote...

Mc Ribs can be sweet, but the most unsavoury thing on the planet is the Krispy Kreme donut.

 

McRibs = pressed gristle into patty form with bbq sauce that tastes like what comes out of a babys diaper after feeding it creamed peas.

And how are you in a position to make that comparison?

[Sjpelke]

One thing about lyrium use which was tipped on in DA2, and his morality being affected by it because of the fact that he admitted being a junky for it, was the expelled templar. Depending on your choice in the game he was reinstalled or not as one.

For me that was a quest that was about choosing sides which made me think about the whole lyrium addiction and what the concequences could be for the people involved.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Sir JK wrote...

So to make that work, one pretty much have to show us responsible slave owners that take care of their property.

Modern militaries.

Conscription is, I would argue, not meaningfully different from slavery, and many modern militaries make use of it.

We seem okay with slavery if we just don't call it slavery.

If not out of a sense of humanity then at the very least to protect an extremely expensive investment. We also have to be shown that slavery is bad, but the street is worse.

This argument is sometimes used to defend sweatshops and child labour.  Yes, they're awful, but (the argument goes) they're the best available alternative for many of those people.

The difficulty doing this in a fantasy environment is that there often isn't the sort of widespread squalor and suffering (certainly not depicted on screen) to support these arguments and make them true.

[Naitaka]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Modern militaries.

Conscription is, I would argue, not meaningfully different from slavery, and many modern militaries make use of it.

We seem okay with slavery if we just don't call it slavery.

Umm...I'm from a country with mandatory conscription and I don't see as to how it can be interpreted as slavery unless it works differently in other countries. Not only was I paid, albeit the pay was pretty crap, I also had the option of Civil Conscription and was not at any point "owned" by the army or my country. I mean, you wouldn't call being called to court for Jury duty a form of slavery would you?

Modifié par Naitaka, 31 mai 2013 - 05:49 .

[Plaintiff]

Why even bother making a Fantasy game at all? Jeez.

[Boycott Bioware]

bEVEsthda wrote...
Power corrupts, and privileges infer that you are more important than other humans. There is also a natural tendency to defend a privileged position. With any means. With time, different classes of people come into existence. There exists all kinds of ideas and concepts to preserve, explain or advocate the status of society. Europe is a tangled mess of wandering peoples, cultures and customs. In the West there is an old cohesivness from the Roman empire's influence and their Greek inheritence. The other adhesive, and the first to include eastern parts, is christianity.

But I beleve there is in most cases an idea that the 'nobles' originally were warriors, tasked with the duty of keeping a force, and fight in defense of the people. And that the privileges were originally awarded as a means to make it economically feasible. Eventually, they became a class of "masters". And in some places, it was also felt needed to formalize the workers duties to said masters. Thus people became 'serfs', in places. At that point the situation was mostly similar to what you describe. And the religion, the christian church, mainly upheld this status que, even if they struggled with nobility for power and richness.

But that eventually changed during the times of the black death plague. This mass death meant that social positions became vacant, that workers became a limited and thus priced commodity. It also meant that the church and nobility lost colossal amounts of face and authority. Religion remained the same, but people became more aware of that the church and the priests mainly put themselves in the place of God. That they were just men, and quite possibly corrupt men, who didn't speak the truth, nor had any special channel to God. Thus it became a question of power struggle rather than obediance. New ideas emerged, as well as old returning, from Roman and Greek times. This is the Renaissance. After that things progress rapidly with religious wars, Isacc Newton, the british parliment, french revolution, US constitution etc.

Thanks for your reply.

just want to add, in some places such as in Asia, the King or monarch are taken as "representatives of the Divine/God/Goddess/Heaven", and so they have right in everything. And some Kings (or queens) are even worshiped as Gods. And in theory, that makes many gods and goddesses, they are actually ancient kings and queens who become god/goddesses and their story become myth and legends, but the Kings (or Queens) later continue their reign by divine right. Of course it will be differently for different country/continent, but basically it is similar to each other, even to the west

In India there is a concept of Dewaraja (God-King), in Egypt as well known the Pharaoh claim they are Gods, in China each dynasties are chosen by heaven, they fall when they no longer chosen by heaven, in Japan the Kamikaze (Divine Wind) is the Emperor divine right, Japan was saved from Mongols because of Kamikaze.In Indonesia and Malaysia, the concept even complicated due to influences from 3 religion (Hindu, Buddha and Islam), but later following Islam concept of "Daulah", that is a "gift of leadership from Allah to the Khalifah", but Malays still maintain the title "Raja" for the King, but some use "Sultan" instead...

It is not far different in western Christendom, as far as i know, the European Kings are having Divine right being Kings. It is all changed after protestant movement and Renaissance. Today the so called modern "democracy" world is actually borrowing part of ancient Greek and Roman system. It is not modern, in fact it is ancient.

There are still slavery today, as there are slavery in those ancient democracy world, it just different form... today people work to pay debt am i right? You making debt then you work to pay debt, or you work then you having debt then work to pay debt, it is the same...your money goes to the bank with interests, what left for you? eat, drink and place to stay....what the different with "debt slave" in the past?

You buy house, you are in debt, you buy car, you are in debt, you want education, you are in debt, you buy things, you use debt cards...people today are machines, the salary they got only to maintain their life to go to work tomorrow...

Just think, we are going to school, who's school? We being taught what we must know, then we get offer going to college, who's college? When we graduate, there is bar lines at our forehead means we are ready to be sold to the market, where we go is depend what we show on our papers/documents, as what we are being programmed for....the market buy us....

Slavery always exist...

[Sylvius the Mad]

Naitaka wrote...

Umm...I'm from a country with mandatory conscription and I don't see as to how it can be interpreted as slavery unless it works differently in other countries. Not only was I paid, albeit the pay was pretty crap, I also had the option of Civil Conscription and was not at any point "owned" by the army or my country.

Was the pay set entirely by your employer?  Did you have any leverage at all to negotiate it?  Were you permitted to refuse to do the work if the pay was too low?

What was the penalty for not taking part?

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 31 mai 2013 - 06:02 .

[bEVEsthda]

Plaintiff wrote...

Why even bother making a Fantasy game at all? Jeez.

Well, yes. I'm not sure I get your comment right...

But every time one tells a story across cultural borders, the important essence of that story need to be understandable. For that purpose it's sometimes necessary to dress up things in a cultural layer of values and customs that are sort of similar to our own. Otherwise we can't relate to the story.

It's a drastic example, but it all starts by having them speak in a language that we understand, rather than some invented gibberish. The actual language of that invented Fantasy culture, is not an important essence of the story.

Fantasy in medieval settings also typically feature modern Western values, rather than medieval.