216 réponses à ce sujet

[Boycott Bioware]

You really did not read the information on Sir Aveline for who Aveline Vallen is named? That story is part of the codex. Also the girl in Denerim is talking about one particular chevalier not all of them. Yes there are female chevaliers.
Also you set up the assumption that all in the poorly trained non-rapist force are just that. You have no way of knowing what those men have done. That is why it is not a grey issue. Great and good leaders make use of the material at hand. If that means highly trained men who have rape need to be used to win a battle they will use them as well as prisoners (who may have raped) slaves and anyone else they can train. Doing anything else is battlefield suicide.

I know there are female Chevaliers and i know Ser Aveline story from Leliana, but i don't know if the females Chevaliers are rapists too as in your question. Do not take advantage on language here, i know i am not English speaking but i got high credit in English than my own language at school and college.

Having female Chevaliers doesn't mean women condition are any better, it just that women are accepted to become Chevaliers. It is like women are allowed to join military school, but the norm are still the same.

Modifié par Qistina, 01 juin 2013 - 05:14 .

[Ryzaki]

Hazegurl wrote...
I love the way you think! On my first playthrough, My female Mage Warden and Alistair stayed Wardens and were very happy together with Loghain's crap. He didn't want to be King and i've heard enough of 'magic should never rule man" to know me being Queen wasn't going to happen. There is no way an elf is going to sit on any throne either. I actually like that about DAO, you don't automatically get the outcome you desire simply because you're the main character. Alistair dumps you if you're not fit to be Queen. "Oh you thought you were also gonna sit on the throne too? Ha! goodbye"

My second female mage became his mistress and I had a female noble who became Queen.  I also had a human noble who married Anora and left Alistair a pathetic drunk at the hanged man.

LOL it's not as callous as that but yeah that pretty much happens. XD Guy didn't want to become king for a good reason

Though now my females just harden him, marry him to Anora and become mistress and Teryna of Gwaren. Happy ending as far as they're concerned.

My male nobles decide to go wardening with Alistair. Bromance to the fullest. :innocent: They'd rather stick a flaming sword in their eye than romance Anora. She's beautiful but that ice queen personality is not worth the frost bites.

[Realmzmaster]

Qistina wrote...

You really did not read the information on Sir Aveline for who Aveline Vallen is named? That story is part of the codex. Also the girl in Denerim is talking about one particular chevalier not all of them. Yes there are female chevaliers.
Also you set up the assumption that all in the poorly trained non-rapist force are just that. You have no way of knowing what those men have done. That is why it is not a grey issue. Great and good leaders make use of the material at hand. If that means highly trained men who have rape need to be used to win a battle they will use them as well as prisoners (who may have raped) slaves and anyone else they can train. Doing anything else is battlefield suicide.

I know there are female Chevaliers and i know Ser Aveline story from Leliana, but i don't know if the females Chevaliers are rapists too as in your question. Do not take advantage on language here, i know i am not English speaking but i got high credit in English than my own language at school and college.

Having female Chevaliers doesn't mean women condition are any better, it just that women are accepted to become Chevaliers. It is like women are allowed to join military school, but the norm are still the same.

You stated in your post that all Chevaliers are rapists that includes the females. All means each and everyone. Since you got high marks in English I am sure you know that. Do not use absolutes unless you can guarntee that every chevalier is a rapist. The women in Denerim did not say all chevalier. She was refering to a particular chevalier who took a fancy to her and acted upon it.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Someone needs to tell me where Qistina is from.

It sounds like a magical place.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Ryzaki wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...
I love the way you think! On my first playthrough, My female Mage Warden and Alistair stayed Wardens and were very happy together with Loghain's crap. He didn't want to be King and i've heard enough of 'magic should never rule man" to know me being Queen wasn't going to happen. There is no way an elf is going to sit on any throne either. I actually like that about DAO, you don't automatically get the outcome you desire simply because you're the main character. Alistair dumps you if you're not fit to be Queen. "Oh you thought you were also gonna sit on the throne too? Ha! goodbye"

My second female mage became his mistress and I had a female noble who became Queen.  I also had a human noble who married Anora and left Alistair a pathetic drunk at the hanged man.

My male nobles decide to go wardening with Alistair. Bromance to the fullest. :innocent: They'd rather stick a flaming sword in their eye than romance Anora. She's beautiful but that ice queen personality is not worth the frost bites.

It was So depressing for my dude warden.

Morrigan: Help me make a demon baby.
CheesecakeWarden:  Nahh.

Leliana: Eyelashes!
CheesecakeWarden:... Pass.

Anora: Political manipulations!
CheesecakeWarden: I should go.

[Ryzaki]

lawl

My male wardens totally go for the eyelashes bit though

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Ryzaki wrote...

lawl

My male wardens totally go for the eyelashes bit though

CheesecakeHawkes of both sexes had a much easier time of things.

CheesecakeWarden made due with sexing up that dailish girl that the wimpy guy was pinning over and ruining their lives.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

I love in RPG's where you are supposed to be a good guy, like for instance being a Jedi in Kotor, you can go in to people houses in rob them, even if they are standing in the room.

[bEVEsthda]

DinoSteve wrote...

I love in RPG's where you are supposed to be a good guy, like for instance being a Jedi in Kotor, you can go in to people houses in rob them, even if they are standing in the room.

Why?

Just curious, not just because precisely that flawed mechanics annoy me, but also because I'm lost for what is to love about it.

...unless of course, it was just a rethorical figure of speech, - to draw attention to the mechanics?
Okay, I suppose it was. Funny. With languages.

Modifié par bEVEsthda, 01 juin 2013 - 01:16 .

[Boycott Bioware]

Realmzmaster wrote...
You stated in your post that all Chevaliers are rapists that includes the females. All means each and everyone. Since you got high marks in English I am sure you know that. Do not use absolutes unless you can guarntee that every chevalier is a rapist. The women in Denerim did not say all chevalier. She was refering to a particular chevalier who took a fancy to her and acted upon it.

I don't say all Chevaliers are rapist, i say Chevaliers are rapist. It indicate that Chandeliers are dominated by men. The girl in Denerim say "Chevaliers", non gender specific, but indicate that they are men. If there women Chevaliers i assume it can be count with fingers. The girl also mention the thing as if it is a tradition that Chevaliers can do anything to women, it is their privileges being Chevaliers

[esper]

Qistina wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...
You stated in your post that all Chevaliers are rapists that includes the females. All means each and everyone. Since you got high marks in English I am sure you know that. Do not use absolutes unless you can guarntee that every chevalier is a rapist. The women in Denerim did not say all chevalier. She was refering to a particular chevalier who took a fancy to her and acted upon it.

I don't say all Chevaliers are rapist, i say Chevaliers are rapist. It indicate that Chandeliers are dominated by men. The girl in Denerim say "Chevaliers", non gender specific, but indicate that they are men. If there women Chevaliers i assume it can be count with fingers. The girl also mention the thing as if it is a tradition that Chevaliers can do anything to women, it is their privileges being Chevaliers

You have to take into account that the woman is biased. She had a bad thing happens and then have a tendency to exgerrate by speaking in pluralis. Cheveliers are not rapist per definition, we don't even know how far reaching their privilige is.

There might for all we know be an unspoken tradition of looking the other way if a Chevelier does something illegal (espically if it is to a social class lower than theirs). It might also be perfectlly legal for them to do whatever the **** they want.

But not matter what her statement said nothing about the female-male ratio amongst the cheveliers.

[Boycott Bioware]

esper wrote...
You have to take into account that the woman is biased. She had a bad thing happens and then have a tendency to exgerrate by speaking in pluralis. Cheveliers are not rapist per definition, we don't even know how far reaching their privilige is.

There might for all we know be an unspoken tradition of looking the other way if a Chevelier does something illegal (espically if it is to a social class lower than theirs). It might also be perfectlly legal for them to do whatever the **** they want.

But not matter what her statement said nothing about the female-male ratio amongst the cheveliers.

maybe the writer just want to establish something about "the Orlesians" to the player, because as we know "Orlesian" is one of main issue of Loghain.

Maybe want to say that "Orlesian=bad, Ferelden=okay" to the player mind

[Ryzaki]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

lawl

My male wardens totally go for the eyelashes bit though

CheesecakeHawkes of both sexes had a much easier time of things.

CheesecakeWarden made due with sexing up that dailish girl that the wimpy guy was pinning over and ruining their lives.

LOL same.

XD I only wish vanilla canon wasn't so hideous. I mean what's up with that nose?!?

[Elrena]

karushna5 wrote...

- First post snip -

I agree with virtually everything in there. A nod to those who've rightly pointed out that men are raped regularly as well, although the numbers are substantially lower - though men as less likely to report the deed so no-one really knows. I know five men in my own very small social circle who were sexually abused.

Thank you for writing such a well thought out post on the effects of rape on an individual. I understand exactly where you are coming from, and I agree that the issue is trivialised with disturbing regularity in games.

However, I'd like to defend how Shianni was treated after she was returned to the alienage. I saw a lot of myself in her, in her quiet assurances that she would be okay and that they didn't have to worry about her, while her excellent voice actress did a superb job of conveying the deep cracks in her resolve under the surface. Many women - and men - who have been through such abuse are familiar with the concept of putting on a brave face until they are alone. She also experiences a huge amount of implied character development in the year between the act and her reunion with a city elf warden. She has faced her memories, and while they still hurt her, they give her the resolve she needs to continue in her work and protect her people.

Her character was handled very maturely, and I really appreciated it. People don't give enough credit to Shianni. 
Also, taking into account Mr. Gaider's remarks about Fenris' history of sexual abuse at the hands of Denarius, that adds another layer to his characterisation that was very authentically crafted, and replaying the game with that knowledge helps to gain insight into his attitudes and behaviours that would previously be dismissed as 'whiny' - something that happens a lot IRL, and I'm almost convinced that's the reason the explicit knowledge of his abuse was never confirmed for the player. It was hinted at, and those who have had similar experiences were more likely to pick up on it. Those who didn't and learned of it later got new insight into his character, and perhaps reconsidered their interpretation of him. Fenris is heavily traumatised, and it shows at times. 

If they make the choice to include rape in the game, as they have every right too, handling it like they did with Fenris and Shianni seems to be the way to go for me. 

[Hazegurl]

Ryzaki wrote...

LOL it's not as callous as that but yeah that pretty much happens. XD Guy didn't want to become king for a good reason

Though now my females just harden him, marry him to Anora and become mistress and Teryna of Gwaren. Happy ending as far as they're concerned.

My male nobles decide to go wardening with Alistair. Bromance to the fullest. :innocent: They'd rather stick a flaming sword in their eye than romance Anora. She's beautiful but that ice queen personality is not worth the frost bites.

lol yeah poor Alistair. His greedy woman pushes him to the throne forgetting that if she herself isn't fit to rule he would have to give her up....if he lacks b@lls.

My Male warden that married Anora was a real douchebag.  He had Zevran on the side as his lover and made him stay in Feraldan with the total intent to assassinate Anora sometime in the future and sit on the throne.

[MerinTB]

Elrena wrote...
handling it like they did with Fenris and Shianni seems to be the way to go for me. 

I have to say that Shianni may well have been my favorite character from DA:O.  At the end of the first playthrough I happily made her Arl or whatever of Denerim (you know, your one wish from the royalty or whatever - it's been awhile.)

For a background character, remarkably well done.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

bEVEsthda wrote...


...unless of course, it was just a rethorical figure of speech, - to draw attention to the mechanics?
Okay, I suppose it was. Funny. With languages.

This one.

[bEVEsthda]

EntropicAngel wrote...

*coughcoughTHEELDERSCROLLScough*

- Hush! 

[Ryzaki]

Hazegurl wrote...
lol yeah poor Alistair. His greedy woman pushes him to the throne forgetting that if she herself isn't fit to rule he would have to give her up....if he lacks b@lls.

My Male warden that married Anora was a real douchebag.  He had Zevran on the side as his lover and made him stay in Feraldan with the total intent to assassinate Anora sometime in the future and sit on the throne.

Yeah my mistress just pulls out the puppy eyes and quivering lip on hardened Ali and go "don't you love me?" and that's that. I can't make unhardened Alistair king less I'm playing a power hungry character. Better to just go Grey Wardening :3 Though unhardened Alistair non king when the warden kills him/herself is I guess it was like losing a second Duncan.

Nice he shall have all the power. Though my power hungry male was a mage so he put unhardened Alistair on the throne and became Chancellor.

[Hazegurl]

Ryzaki wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...
lol yeah poor Alistair. His greedy woman pushes him to the throne forgetting that if she herself isn't fit to rule he would have to give her up....if he lacks b@lls.

My Male warden that married Anora was a real douchebag.  He had Zevran on the side as his lover and made him stay in Feraldan with the total intent to assassinate Anora sometime in the future and sit on the throne.

Yeah my mistress just pulls out the puppy eyes and quivering lip on hardened Ali and go "don't you love me?" and that's that. I can't make unhardened Alistair king less I'm playing a power hungry character. Better to just go Grey Wardening :3 Though unhardened Alistair non king when the warden kills him/herself is I guess it was like losing a second Duncan.

Nice he shall have all the power. Though my power hungry male was a mage so he put unhardened Alistair on the throne and became Chancellor.

lol!! I love having a hardened Alistair wrapped around my fingers...
I like the idea of being a Chancellor, sounds much better than planning Anora's permenant vacation.

[Realmzmaster]

Qistina wrote...

Slavery is involuntary servitude. A slave does not choose to serve, but is forced to serve. The slave is treated as property and can be bought or sold.

Not accurate, we can voluntary become a slave. Just sold ourselves to anyone, we become their slave.

not all slaves are forced to become slave, some are voluntary out of anything, hardship in life, social imbalanced, wars and famine, economic fall, and many more. Today, many women sold themselves to "porn industry", i use the softer word...i could use "**** factory" instead...

When someone own you then you are a slave, no matter you voluntarily being owned or forcibly

The difference here is choice. If you are in debt to a lender you can choose to pledge your labor or service. Just like Hawke pledged his/her service to get into Kirkwall. Almost all of the slaves brought from Africa to the United States were not there by choice but by force.

[Boycott Bioware]

Realmzmaster wrote...
The difference here is choice. If you are in debt to a lender you can choose to pledge your labor or service. Just like Hawke pledged his/her service to get into Kirkwall. Almost all of the slaves brought from Africa to the United States were not there by choice but by force.

A slave is someone who owned by someone else. Hawke is owned by Red Iron or the smuggler, for a year. Hawke work for free because Red Iron or the smuggler pay for the bribe. Slavery is not necessarily by force, you may willingly become someone slave out of any reason. You may become a slave by contract.

Actually the story is illogical, the bribe to the guard is equal to one year slavery, how much actually?

Hawke need 50 gold for expedition, and Hawke can get 50 gold fast. 50 gold is big money that can support an expedition to the Deep Road, 50 gold can hire many mercenaries and buying suplies for the expedition. But Hawke need to become a slave for a year to bribe a guard? Is it 500 gold? 1000 gold? 5000 gold bribe?

Modifié par Qistina, 02 juin 2013 - 03:25 .

[Nefla]

Filament wrote...

I think the slave scenario is an interesting one. If there's no functioning justice system and death is too harsh, would you be willing to sell them to slavers instead?

Problem of course is the corrupting financial motive, and it being cruel and unusual... though not necessarily especially for the women, as male rape in that kind of situation is a thing too (*cough* Fenris), if no one tends to care as much.

Was it ever confirmed that Fenris had been raped? Danarius says "he is rather skilled" with his trollface but Fenris himself says he's a virgin, when Isabella implies he was a sex slave he says he was a bodyguard and she is making up her own fantasy, etc...I've always wondered because so many people seem certain(and hoped he wasn't, I came from an anime background and am sick to death of the yaoi-rape thing)