299 réponses à ce sujet

[jtav]

Now that I have your attention...

There's much to enjoy in Citadel from a gameplay POV, but it's atrocious in terms of story for much the same reason the ending is poor: it doesn't fit with the story that came before. Mass Effect has always had comic moments, but the comedy never stops in Citadel. The war's been essentially put on hold so we can play Mass Effect: Parody and Dating Sim. Our crew made jokes before, but suddenly they're more concerned about the pizza bill and a kill count competition. Shepard manages to become an even more ridiculous action hero with some of his comments to the clone. The clone plot is like something from a bad B movie. The second half is better for what it is, but several characters (especially Javik) come off a caricaturs of themselves. The game relies on alcohol for jokes instead of letting it arise from the characters. And "I heart Garrus?" Come on.

This isn't the Darkspawn Chronicles; Citadel is part of the same universe as the genophage and Sanctuary. More time with beloved characters is a good thing, but I wanted *them* not a crackfic universe. Omega has been criticized for being a pure shooterfest, but at least I don't have to go "it was all a dream" to fit it into the narrative. If inconsistency is the flaw of the endings, then Citadel is even worse. A light tone does not excuse poor storytelling.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

Citadel was a crap ton of fun, taken on its own. People loved the ME characters, and it definitely gave us the ME characters. That said, it was also blatant fan service and wish fulfillment. I would not consider it good writing in the slightest.

[Argentoid]

Hello there, Smudboy

[CronoDragoon]

Citadel is not an organic part of the story. It's purpose was always meta-justified as a send-off, and there are two key differences with the ending:

1. It was always advertised as the product we received.
2. As a stand-alone DLC story it is separable from the rest of the story in ways the ending is not. The entire clone plot at face value is ridiculous, but as a meta-commentary on the nature of Shepard's character it's the best way to end the trilogy.

I also disagree that the jokes didn't arise from the characters. Alcohol is only one source of jokes. Many of the characters being caricatures of themselves ONLY works because you've spent so much time with these people that you know exactly what is being made fun of.

Javik is a perfect example. When Shepard says, "How's the music, Javik? Not as good as your cycle, am I right?" that may be sort of funny to someone who hasn't played ME3, but it's really funny to anyone who has, because we know why that joke is there, and also because it has the perfect expected follow up of Javik not getting the sarcasm and confirming that his cycle was indeed better.

It's the perfect type of character humor that simultaneously reinforces and subverts character expectations.

[McFlurry598]

Please don't act your opinion is a fact OP

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

jtav wrote...

Now that I have your attention...

There's
much to enjoy in Citadel from a gameplay POV, but it's atrocious in
terms of story for much the same reason the ending is poor: it doesn't
fit with the story that came before. Mass Effect has always had comic
moments, but the comedy never stops in Citadel. The war's been
essentially put on hold so we can play Mass Effect: Parody and Dating
Sim. Our crew made jokes before, but suddenly they're more concerned
about the pizza bill and a kill count competition. Shepard manages to
become an even more ridiculous action hero with some of his comments to
the clone. The clone plot is like something from a bad B movie. The
second half is better for what it is, but several characters (especially
Javik) come off a caricaturs of themselves. The game relies on alcohol
for jokes instead of letting it arise from the characters. And "I heart
Garrus?" Come on.

This isn't the Darkspawn Chronicles; Citadel is
part of the same universe as the genophage and Sanctuary. More time
with beloved characters is a good thing, but I wanted *them* not a
crackfic universe. Omega has been criticized for being a pure
shooterfest, but at least I don't have to go "it was all a dream" to fit
it into the narrative. If inconsistency is the flaw of the endings,
then Citadel is even worse. A light tone does not excuse poor
storytelling.

I get what you mean and even agree in a sense, I disliked  how instead of having the characters be funny, they instead just opted to turn them into caricaturs of themselves. And then there is how the party has all those idiotic moments where they pander to those retarded character shipping the more dumb fans hold dear.

Though I still enjoyed it and had a decent time, if only because I have completely given up on the trilogy being anything great. It is certainly better than that 3-4 hour long torture session that is Omega. But in the end yes, I actually have a hard time incorporating it into my headcanon aside from the idea that a party was held during shore leave at some point.

[McFlurry598]

Please don't act like your opinion is a defenitive one OP

[hot_heart]

I'm perfectly happy with Citadel as it is. Given how ME3 went (particularly with the treatment of ME2 characters), and the timing of the DLC, it was too late to address my main problems with the game anyway. Therefore, I was happy to approach it as an almost entirely separate entity and enjoy it on those merits.

Yes, I probably would've preferred something more consistent with the tone and atmosphere of the main games (even if ME3 was a little too gloomy compared to the other two), but I liked seeing the writers cut loose as well. I don't deem it canon (especially as a fan of Miranda), but that doesn't make it worthless.

It all comes down to personal taste. Leviathan looks like it does some things right, but it didn't pique my interest, and I passed on Omega because I just don't care for Aria (and the related price tag).

Modifié par hot_heart, 31 mai 2013 - 02:23 .

[shodiswe]

Even soldiers have breaks for r&r during long wars and this war is taking some time. Building that crusible takes time and for special operatives there will always be downtime.
You experienced hours of shepards life where s/he supposedly spent years.
Months passed in me3.
If they would have been out there fighting husks one on one during that time then they would have bern dead or as crazy as that Asari PTSD patient in the hospital.
Shepard isn't just a frontline soldier. TBH it's strange that they risk Shepard life that much considering how important Shepard is for the whole war effort.

As for the clone story, it might not be perfect but the "plot holes" people pretend to be finding simply arn't there.
They just missed a lot of the story and lore and make alot of misstakes in their atempts to piece things together. Like themissconception that EDI's body can't operate without being in touch with the ship.
Which is something EDI tells us on the ship, least to those of us who take the time to get to know her.
There is a lot of this in ME3, it's usualy complicated and if you miss one small detailvthen it's suddenly a plothole. Some plot holes are even crested by peoples own headcanons and preconceptions and guessworks when there is actualy an in game explanation.

[Ieldra]

Yeah, I have to agree with OP here. The good that can be said for it is that it wasn't advertised as something different, and that it gave Jack, Thane and Miranda some moments that should've been in the main game (in that, it's more like a fix DLC) but apart from that it's as jarring as the ending if you play them first, only in the opposite direction. I really don't care about the over-the-top humor, especially in the story part of Citadel, and I don't like that I had to play through that part in order to get to the few moments I like.

The light-hearted style was what we needed at that point, but (1) we shouldn't have needed it, and we wouldn't had the endings been different, and (2) yet again, Bioware proved their instrinsic inability for subtlely.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 31 mai 2013 - 02:30 .

[Argentoid]

shodiswe wrote...

As for the clone story, it might not be perfect but the "plot holes" people pretend to be finding simply arn't there.
They just missed a lot of the story and lore and make alot of misstakes in their atempts to piece things together. Like themissconception that EDI's body can't operate without being in touch with the ship.
Which is something EDI tells us on the ship, least to those of us who take the time to get to know her.
There is a lot of this in ME3, it's usualy complicated and if you miss one small detailvthen it's suddenly a plothole. Some plot holes are even crested by peoples own headcanons and preconceptions and guessworks when there is actualy an in game explanation.

[GreyLycanTrope]

The story was certainly contrived and felt a bit out of place given to tone of just about everything else in ME3 but it managed to be what the ending wasn't, fun. It's also reflective of the the idea of actually being able to live in the ME universe instead of just constantly fight for it, basically it let us enjoy the spoils of our efforts throughout the game, so I'll still count Omega as the worst DLC.

[mumba]

Same thing with ME2.

[Stalker]

I really enjoyed the DLC as an outstanding parody, but also hate it in the way you mentioned: it's so out of place I don't even consider it canon for my Shepard.

I sincerely hope they do not continue with that kind of writing.

[Steelcan]

Greylycantrope wrote...

The story was certainly contrived and felt a bit out of place given to tone of just about everything else in ME3 but it managed to be what the ending rest of the game wasn't, fun. It's also reflective of the the idea of actually being able to live in the ME universe instead of just constantly fight for it, basically it let us enjoy the spoils of our efforts throughout the game, so I'll still count Omega as the worst DLC.

Fixed it for you.

To be honest, Citadel was a very welcome break in the story.  BioWare failed so utterly at the 'grimdark' setting of ME3 with the war and everything that this lighthearted apporach was definately the right choice.

this DLC was never going to be similar in tone, its a charcater focused, entertaining, and a send off to the series, not another mission into Reaper territory or *gag* another mission against Cerberus.  In that regard the DLC is fantastic.  It isn't meant to be taken seriously and it doesn not try to hit home any particular point like the rest of the game did, and it is all the better for it.

[Seboist]

Citadel DLC is the best thing that came out of the sequels. I'll take intentional idiocy over unintentional idiocy anytime(which is what ME2-3 were from start to finish).

Not only that but the series would have been better off from the start if never took itself too seriously and embraced that it was a goofy space pulp story of a team of superheroes like with this DLC.

[Ieldra]

Cthulhu42 wrote...
Citadel was not only the best ME3 DLC, but it was the best mission in the game by the far.

I have no idea how anyone can come to that conclusion. What exactly made it the best mission compared to the other DLC?

In Citadel, I liked about 30% - the party infiltration mission, the R&R content of three characters, a handful of the party conversations and the final scene. In Omega, I liked about 60-70% - everything but the last third which was too combat-heavy - to say nothing of that it had the best antagonist of ME3.

Leviathan was the best DLC. A few new gameplay elements, a story that fit with the rest of the game, interesting maps and a very intense mood.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 31 mai 2013 - 04:00 .

[Steelcan]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...
Citadel was not only the best ME3 DLC, but it was the best mission in the game by the far.

I have no idea how anyone can come to that conclusion. What exactly made it the best mission compared to the other DLC?

In Citadel, I liked about 30% - the party infiltration mission, the R&R content of three characters, a handful of the party conversations and the final scene. In Omega, I liked about 60-70% - everything but the last third which was too combat-heavy - to say nothing of that it had the best antagonist of ME3.

Leviathan was the best DLC. A few new gameplay elements, a story that fit with the rest of the game, interesting maps and a very intense mood.

.......  Leviathan was good, but ultimately dissapointing.  Its big reveal was a half-assed attempt to justify the nonsense that is the Catalyst.

[CrutchCricket]

Citadel- a "fix" that didn't really fix much of anything but OD'd on fanservice so people don't really notice. I enjoyed what was given, but that doesn't blind me to the gaping faults still present. If you ignore everything but sentiment, it's a nice way to say goodbye, unless you're a fan of Kasumi or Legion, in which case you get to eat ****.

[CronoDragoon]

Steelcan wrote...
.......  Leviathan was good, but ultimately dissapointing.  Its big reveal was a half-assed attempt to justify the nonsense that is the Catalyst.

I'm pretty sure it's a full-assed attempt.

[Seboist]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...
Citadel was not only the best ME3 DLC, but it was the best mission in the game by the far.

I have no idea how anyone can come to that conclusion. What exactly made it the best mission compared to the other DLC?

Entertaining dialogue, an enjoyable antagonist, the incorporation of the entire squad, and, most importantly, the fact that it didn't take its ridiculous story seriously.

It was good bang for you buck too. There's the core plot, the party and various side activities(Ex. Arena).

[Steelcan]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Citadel- a "fix" that didn't really fix much of anything but OD'd on fanservice so people don't really notice. I enjoyed what was given, but that doesn't blind me to the gaping faults still present. If you ignore everything but sentiment, it's a nice way to say goodbye, unless you're a fan of Kasumi or Legion, in which case you get to eat ****.

Kasumi got shafted throughout ME3