333 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

FlamingBoy wrote...

As for the secound part, your using words like "rational", "rage", "off their-rockers-mad", "couldn't make an objective review". One needs to be careful in using these words to describe other individuals, its used to often on this thread alone, as you can see there are some individuals who believe that my understanding of the game is simply as a result of "not getting it" essentially the obvious implication is that I am a fool and people like myself are fools. Perhaps I am perhaps I am not, but its not how a debate works they go straight for the character of the individual regardless of the consequences.

I agree. If you're going to say someone's an irrational fool, you need to explain why he's an irrational fool. Even if you've said it before, even if you think it's obvious.

[ioannisdenton]

I was away from these forums for 2 or 3 months, i played other games.
Returing to Me3 after a break (since my last Me3 run was in september) and in full trilogy playthrough i found out miracusly that :
Claiming that Me3 is unplayable or garbage due the "idiotic plot" is quite the hyperbole.
In my Original Post i stated 4 things (one may argue about the 4) that validate that Me3 is a good game at least. I excluded the fun gameplay IF you noticed.

[Ticonderoga117]

iakus wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Good game? Sure

Good ending? Nope

Good handling of the backlash? Nope

We will see what they do with ME4 but my first question to Bioware will be "why should I invest in your game again? Who is to say you are not gearing up to force feed me your art and kick me in the quad at the end because Mac thinks it would be awesome and uplifting?"

Yup.

Mamking the player thing they did something wrong in completing the game is not how you retain an audience.

Hell,  showing players that no, your choice doesn't matter, won't help either.  It's going to be hard to show me why I should buy any more games with the Mass Effect label when I can spend said money on something else, like Destiny, Halo, Fallout, hell; even Battlefield and Call of Duty.

[Redbelle]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

iakus wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Good game? Sure

Good ending? Nope

Good handling of the backlash? Nope

We will see what they do with ME4 but my first question to Bioware will be "why should I invest in your game again? Who is to say you are not gearing up to force feed me your art and kick me in the quad at the end because Mac thinks it would be awesome and uplifting?"

Yup.

Mamking the player thing they did something wrong in completing the game is not how you retain an audience.

Hell,  showing players that no, your choice doesn't matter, won't help either.  It's going to be hard to show me why I should buy any more games with the Mass Effect label when I can spend said money on something else, like Destiny, Halo, Fallout, hell; even Battlefield and Call of Duty.

What do you think the chances are that other development companies will look at Biowares Mass Effect and Dragon age. Look at how BW constructed its games to feed into one another. And with the coming next gen consoles and new game developments, think, 'hmmm, we could try something like that'.

[Ticonderoga117]

Redbelle wrote...
What do you think the chances are that other development companies will look at Biowares Mass Effect and Dragon age. Look at how BW constructed its games to feed into one another. And with the coming next gen consoles and new game developments, think, 'hmmm, we could try something like that'.

I'm not saying it's a bad thing to do, as long as the games deliver. The problem with ME3 was that while flavor details did carry over well, major plot details didn't (I'm looking at you Collector base decision). And that's what I'm talking about. One of the details that got me in with Mass effect was this idea, and it fell flat on it's face. If thier next series plans to attempt it again, I'm going to be very skeptical as to how well it's going to work.

[AlanC9]

The big lesson of ME might be to not do trilogies. All they do is build up fan expectations that can't be met.

Modifié par AlanC9, 03 juin 2013 - 09:57 .

[Redbelle]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Redbelle wrote...
What do you think the chances are that other development companies will look at Biowares Mass Effect and Dragon age. Look at how BW constructed its games to feed into one another. And with the coming next gen consoles and new game developments, think, 'hmmm, we could try something like that'.

I'm not saying it's a bad thing to do, as long as the games deliver. The problem with ME3 was that while flavor details did carry over well, major plot details didn't (I'm looking at you Collector base decision). And that's what I'm talking about. One of the details that got me in with Mass effect was this idea, and it fell flat on it's face. If thier next series plans to attempt it again, I'm going to be very skeptical as to how well it's going to work.

I have to admit. For ME, (and to a lesser extent, Dragon Age..... Why did I have to lose my warden??? WHHHYYYY)!!!! The carry over function was a huge draw.

The sense of continuation, not just a new entry into the franchise but a next step in your personal journey, is a fantastic concept that BW carried out. It's telling that I prefer ME to DA even though they both use the same game development model. With ME the story kept the same characters, and so it was easier to reconnect with them.

DA2, not so much. ME got me used to BW's model of continuation. DA2 threatened that outlook by removing the Warden.

[KaiserShep]

AlanC9 wrote...

The big lesson of ME might be to not do trilogies. All they do is build up fan expectations that can't be met.

The terrible irony is that meeting our expectations was well within their grasp. The ending didn't have to be complicated, but they did it anyway, and the story suffered for it. 

[AlanC9]

Meaning that if the ending has been happier, or whatever MEHEM's supposed to be, people would have forgiven all the other things they were complaining about?

[spirosz]

Legion of 1337 wrote...
Also autodialogue is just ME3's replacement for the dialogue options in ME1 where picking one of what appeared to eb three choices actually gave you the same dialogue no matter what you picked, and in ME2 where three different things were said but the other character responded the same way no matter what making the response pointless. ME3 is just up front about saying "yeah, we weren't going to let you pick these liens anyway".

ME2 had tons of auto dialogue as well, but it didn't leave me feeling disconnected from my Shepard and yet, I felt that ME2 had the perfect balance of auto dialogue and player interactivity.  I understood the illusion in ME1 and I understand Bioware's decision to have a more "flow" type feel with the conversation, but it didn't work for me in ME3 - Thessia joke is one of the better examples of this. 

[Bleachrude]

Redbelle wrote...


What do you think the chances are that other development companies will look at Biowares Mass Effect and Dragon age. Look at how BW constructed its games to feed into one another. And with the coming next gen consoles and new game developments, think, 'hmmm, we could try something like that'.

I honestly doubt we will see anything as ambitious as ME was attempted...what we would likely see is smaller carry overs...a lot of people are incensed that major details didn't have a bigger effect on the game but most of the proposals to fix this basically has two games in one package.

[dreamgazer]

AlanC9 wrote...

Meaning that if the ending has been happier, or whatever MEHEM's supposed to be, people would have forgiven all the other things they were complaining about?

Hate to say it, but probably. 

[Nole]

AlanC9 wrote...

Meaning that if the ending has been happier, or whatever MEHEM's supposed to be, people would have forgiven all the other things they were complaining about?

Shepard lives ----> Reunion with LI------> Blue babies ------> Fanbase happy.

[Epic777]

AlanC9 wrote...

Meaning that if the ending has been happier, or whatever MEHEM's supposed to be, people would have forgiven all the other things they were complaining about?

I do not believe the backlash with the endings was because of the lack of warm and fuzzy endings As I wrote in another thread.

If it was about happy and fuzzy feelings why wasn't there aloud outcry over Mordin. Mordin was one of the most popular characters of ME2 and the whole trilogy. No one was complaining about the VS. It was a little harsh wasn't it? Then we have Legion, another popular character, wouldn't it have been cool if he survivied. What about keeping Wrex and Mordin alive, did you see the threads about keeping both alive? What about poor Charr? There has not been a significant outcry over these harsh outcomes, proving the argument and statement hollow.

The schism between what drives the ending and what they audience has been shown is in my opinion the cause of the hatred of the endings. Think about it. With ME3 they made the inevitable synthetic vs organic argument weaker. The Geth are very sympathetic, they saved the memories of thw Quarians who died protecting them and also relented from fully destroying their creators. The Quarians especially Han'Gerral are very gung ho. Hell, Gerral shoots at you when your on a mission trying to help him. EDI is essentially becoming a real girl, in many sense of the way.... Yet in the end you don't even have Synthetics vs Organics, in the sense you dont have anyone representing the synthetics, the Geth unless destroyed will fight against the reapers. Ironically the Reapers don't represent the synthetics as they are here to help organics in their strange way. 

It would be akin to Bioshock removing (spoilers) all the small moments and references that hint Atlas is in fact Fontaine. In that scenario the Fontaine reveal would seem like a contrived "ass pull".



http://social.biowar...5727/4#16782778

[Nole]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

WittingEight65 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Meaning that if the ending has been happier, or whatever MEHEM's supposed to be, people would have forgiven all the other things they were complaining about?

Shepard lives ----> Reunion with LI------> Blue babies ------> Fanbase happy.

But you don't need some mod for that; it's all perfectly possible in High-EMS Destroy.

Yes, but people need to see it in the game to move on and die in peace.

Modifié par WittingEight65, 03 juin 2013 - 11:06 .

[dreamgazer]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

WittingEight65 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Meaning that if the ending has been happier, or whatever MEHEM's supposed to be, people would have forgiven all the other things they were complaining about?

Shepard lives ----> Reunion with LI------> Blue babies ------> Fanbase happy.

But you don't need some mod for that; it's all perfectly possible in High-EMS Destroy.

The geth, man. The geth. And our damned souls! (sobs)

[Ravensword]

dreamgazer wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

WittingEight65 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Meaning that if the ending has been happier, or whatever MEHEM's supposed to be, people would have forgiven all the other things they were complaining about?

Shepard lives ----> Reunion with LI------> Blue babies ------> Fanbase happy.

But you don't need some mod for that; it's all perfectly possible in High-EMS Destroy.

The geth, man. The geth. And our damned souls! (sobs)

In my headcannon Legion is still alive.

[dreamgazer]

Ravensword wrote...

In my headcannon Legion is still alive.

In my headcanon, Space Hamster leads a legion of pyjaks on an offensive that takes down a Reaper.

We all have our indulgences.

[Ravensword]

dreamgazer wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

In my headcannon Legion is still alive.

In my headcanon, Space Hamster leads a legion of pyjaks on an offensive that takes down a Reaper.

We all have our indulgences.

A dwarf scullion leads a nug uprising in Thedas in my DA headcanon.

[Seboist]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

WittingEight65 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Meaning that if the ending has been happier, or whatever MEHEM's supposed to be, people would have forgiven all the other things they were complaining about?

Shepard lives ----> Reunion with LI------> Blue babies ------> Fanbase happy.

But you don't need some mod for that; it's all perfectly possible in High-EMS Destroy.

The geth, man. The geth. And our damned souls! (sobs)

Oh yeah, I forgot it can't be a happy ending unless the poorly-written robots that repeatedly try and kill you in all three games can make it out alive too.

It's a happy ending with them and EDI destroyed of course.

[Nole]

Seboist wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

WittingEight65 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Meaning that if the ending has been happier, or whatever MEHEM's supposed to be, people would have forgiven all the other things they were complaining about?

Shepard lives ----> Reunion with LI------> Blue babies ------> Fanbase happy.

But you don't need some mod for that; it's all perfectly possible in High-EMS Destroy.

The geth, man. The geth. And our damned souls! (sobs)

Oh yeah, I forgot it can't be a happy ending unless the poorly-written robots that repeatedly try and kill you in all three games can make it out alive too.

It's a happy ending with them and EDI destroyed of course.

I destroyed the Geths at Rannoch. For me, Destroy is a happy ending in it's maximum expression (?).

[Seboist]

I destroyed them on Rannoch as well and had a happy control ending as a result.

[Nole]

Seboist wrote...

I destroyed them on Rannoch as well and had a happy control ending as a result.

It was really hard to pick between Destroy and Control. After all, Shepard deserves to become a God.