333 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...

Meaning that if the ending has been happier, or whatever MEHEM's supposed to be, people would have forgiven all the other things they were complaining about?

If it had been an option?

No, I don't think all would hav ebeen forgiven.  There'd be complaints regardless.  Some deserved, some not.

But a large part of the complaints would never have come up.  People like endings they can be content with.  Even, dare I say "happy"  Most people lkike to end their games with a sense of accomplishment.  And many, many people like to end their stories with a triumphant hero and a vanguished villain.  

[Redbelle]

AlanC9 wrote...

Meaning that if the ending has been happier, or whatever MEHEM's supposed to be, people would have forgiven all the other things they were complaining about?

If an ending like the MEHEM had been available as something to attempt to acheive by doing a complete playthrough, then I would ave been happier.

The endings were devoid of significant parallel's with what I had done in the campaigns. ME2's ending mission relied on past choices to dictate possible success rates.

Basically. I wanted to see endings that took my playthough into account in some way while offering a range of possible outcomes. From total failure, to total victory, with those three endings inbetween.

If you messed it up you get Liara's time capsule.

If you do adequately you get the three endings.

If you max the playthough you essentially get the Full Shepard experience. Win the war. Get the girl and settle with your love interest.

The problem isn't content. It's how that content was executed and portreyed. While forgetting that the fans had expectation's based on ME2.

I know people will say expectation are wrong when playing a game. But they are they based on past franchise experiences. We're just trained to think that way. Unless we one day get a FF game that doesn't have Firaga.

It's not about abandoning meeting expectation's though. It's about positively circumventing expection's.

Modifié par Redbelle, 04 juin 2013 - 11:49 .

[AlanC9]

Firaga?

[txgoldrush]

Epic777 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Meaning that if the ending has been happier, or whatever MEHEM's supposed to be, people would have forgiven all the other things they were complaining about?

I do not believe the backlash with the endings was because of the lack of warm and fuzzy endings As I wrote in another thread.

If it was about happy and fuzzy feelings why wasn't there aloud outcry over Mordin. Mordin was one of the most popular characters of ME2 and the whole trilogy. No one was complaining about the VS. It was a little harsh wasn't it? Then we have Legion, another popular character, wouldn't it have been cool if he survivied. What about keeping Wrex and Mordin alive, did you see the threads about keeping both alive? What about poor Charr? There has not been a significant outcry over these harsh outcomes, proving the argument and statement hollow.

The schism between what drives the ending and what they audience has been shown is in my opinion the cause of the hatred of the endings. Think about it. With ME3 they made the inevitable synthetic vs organic argument weaker. The Geth are very sympathetic, they saved the memories of thw Quarians who died protecting them and also relented from fully destroying their creators. The Quarians especially Han'Gerral are very gung ho. Hell, Gerral shoots at you when your on a mission trying to help him. EDI is essentially becoming a real girl, in many sense of the way.... Yet in the end you don't even have Synthetics vs Organics, in the sense you dont have anyone representing the synthetics, the Geth unless destroyed will fight against the reapers. Ironically the Reapers don't represent the synthetics as they are here to help organics in their strange way. 

It would be akin to Bioshock removing (spoilers) all the small moments and references that hint Atlas is in fact Fontaine. In that scenario the Fontaine reveal would seem like a contrived "ass pull".



http://social.biowar...5727/4#16782778

The BSN anti enders completely MISSED what drove the endings. Once again, the endings weren't even about organics and synthetics, that simply wasn't the conflict. The CONFLICT was that Shepard opposes the Catalyst for his forcible SACRIFICE of organic civilizations to achieve his goal. It DOES NOT MATTER if the Catalyst is wrong or right about organics and synthetics, its all about his METHODS.

This is why Shepard does not argue with the Catalyst about organics and synthetics. He never does. Why? Because he doesn't care. For him to use the geth and quarian peace against the Catalyst is irrelevant because that's simply not the conflict.

The ONLY way that organics and synthetics truly becomes an important theme in the ending is if the player chooses synthesis.

Modifié par txgoldrush, 04 juin 2013 - 07:33 .

[KiwiQuiche]

They already have from the "Perfect Scores, your complaints are invalid" PR responses.

[Redbelle]

AlanC9 wrote...

Firaga?

Lvl 3 fire spell. Nearly every FF game has it.

Or something named after it.

[TheRealJayDee]

Well, Mass Effect, for me, is over now. Citadel DLC was the final addition to Shepard's story and that was it. I'm not satisfied with how his story was concluded, but it is what we got. I'm genuinely happy for every Mass Effect fan who is satisfied with the game as a whole and the endings in particular, I really am!

What irks me are the people who tell me my reasons for disliking the endings are that
1) I just can't live without a super-happy ending
2) I'm to dumb to understand the endings
3) I just want to hate on Bioware
because that is all pure bull****, if you excuse my french. These generalizations are as common as they are tiring and frustrating.

It is cool to like the game and the endings. It is cool to dislike the game and the endings. It is not to cool to call people idiots if they have a different view on the game, and that goes for both sides.

I... well, was tempted to write a lot more, but ultimately there is no point. Nobody is likely changing anyone's opinion on any of the fundemental issues anymore, and there won't be any further input from Bioware to break up the deadlocked positions. I just wish everyone here would at least try to keep the insults at a minimum...

[Anthadlas]

txgoldrush wrote...

FlamingBoy wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

FlamingBoy wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...


Which ME1 and ME2 also had but they choose to ignore.

Its not about what game did have and what game didn't have. The point is me3 had issues to the point that my understanding of the universe was broken. It is irrelevant if me1 or 2 had issues or even if it was worse in those games.

It didn't matter in me1 and 2 because the narrative was plausible at the end of the day all of it didn't really matter, regardless if badly written or not.

Me3 depended on the narrative to a huge degree to the point where its the only thing that matters, For example the crucible in all its various explanations does not make sense, a secret hidden weapon found on mars (convient) which we don't know how it works built by a contingency of  races (why build a portion of a weapon? That in itself does not make any sense) over the eons, the weapon itself has 3 uniques functions (how those functions work, who cares right ) that drastically alter the way the universe and the people living in it works..... I could go on....
but even my head is about to explode from the maddness of a game in a series that prides it self on plasibility

The crucible is the main driving point of the plot it moved the story forward. The story of all 3 games depended on me3, so as a result the entire series depended on the one game that didn't even remotely reach peoples expectations. That is the problem, me1 and me2 are the struggles we as players went through with our friends (shepard, garrus, talli, ect) we still enjoyed it despite its flaws. But in me3 those flaws are so bad so detrimental to our experience that it wrecked the experience for the entire series

Bioware made a series on emotional investment, the game depended on the player to care about what was happening, otherwise it would have been a lesser experience. But when it was time for the emotional payoff, when it was time for bioware to deliever on the ever so important promise "your choices will matter" they floundered.

And that is why people could not handle mass effect 3, it was a betrayal of the gravest kind....It did not matter that me2 and 1 had bad writing because it was not detrimental to the game... Me3 on the hand failed when it should have succeeded.

It broke the silent contract that every "artist" has with its audience. In this case they simply could not wrap up the experience in anyway that made the "sacrifices" we went through worth it.

I think that sums it up nicely..... It just was not worth it.

To sum up my post here nicely...you didn't get it.

Your choices DID matter...but they matted throughout the plot...not just the ending.

Sorry but the game is not going to betray its themes, which require a bittersweet ending because of the theme being "victory through sacrifice", to give you a super happy ending because you made choices well.

This is the problem. Stop making out the games problem to be my problem, its not how a debate works. I asure that I "got" the ending. I got it was concept that was executed like a poorly cut fugu.

Stop degrading my opinion to serve yourself, its a disgraceful. If the game was anygood defend the game based on it own merits but don't attack me to try and debunk my opinion it just does not work that way
I attack the game but you attack me personally, it is wrong.

No, you really didn't get it...if you did, you would know WHY it ended that way.

Not all opinions are created equal...get over it.

Damn, the amount of arrogance in your posts is insane.
Blaming the audience for not understanding shoddy writing is cheap, personally insulting somebody's ability to understand something because they don't agree with you however is just plain pathetic.

Modifié par Wraith 02, 04 juin 2013 - 02:14 .

[Anthadlas]

Greylycantrope wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...
No, you just didn't get it....and many of the main flaws in ME3 have been addressed.

Did I miss a patch or something?

Yeah, It's called sniffing glue until it makes sense.

I tried it but it still didn't make sense, probably because I am too stupid to understand.

The fact that all this crap gets written trying to defend and justify the ending proves just how badly it is written otherwise there would be no need for it.

[angol fear]

Wraith 02 wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...
No, you just didn't get it....and many of the main flaws in ME3 have been addressed.

Did I miss a patch or something?

Yeah, It's called sniffing glue until it makes sense.

I tried it but it still didn't make sense, probably because I am too stupid to understand.

The fact that all this crap gets written trying to defend and justify the ending proves just how badly it is written otherwise there would be no need for it.

That's wrong. 2001 : a space odyssey, mulholland drive are bad films? Understanding everything doesn't mean that a story is greatly written. Actually most of bad movies and bad book are easy to understand and don't need their ending to be justified.

[dreamgazer]

Wraith 02 wrote...

Yeah, It's called sniffing glue until it makes sense.

Everyone just picked the wrong week to stop, I guess.

[AresKeith]

dreamgazer wrote...

Wraith 02 wrote...

Yeah, It's called sniffing glue until it makes sense.

Everyone just picked the wrong week to stop, I guess.

I think txgoldrush didn't stop lol

[Redbelle]

angol fear wrote...

Wraith 02 wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...
No, you just didn't get it....and many of the main flaws in ME3 have been addressed.

Did I miss a patch or something?

Yeah, It's called sniffing glue until it makes sense.

I tried it but it still didn't make sense, probably because I am too stupid to understand.

The fact that all this crap gets written trying to defend and justify the ending proves just how badly it is written otherwise there would be no need for it.

That's wrong. 2001 : a space odyssey, mulholland drive are bad films? Understanding everything doesn't mean that a story is greatly written. Actually most of bad movies and bad book are easy to understand and don't need their ending to be justified.

2001 at least had a book, a sequel, and a running theme of mans evolution and it's monitoring by an unknown Monolith to help tie the plot elements together.

Heck, the sequel saw the return of HAL and David and the turning of Jupiter into a second sun of the solar system. All held together by the unknown race who sent the Monlith's desiring a place where man would not tread.

A pity the Reapers motivation's did not end with proclamation, instead of progressing to rationalisation.

Then I could jump on board the 'ending does not have to be justified bandwagon.

Instead, we heard ample rationalisation and justification from the Catalyst who claimed to control the Reapers and whose logic was ultimately rejected when people pointed out that it's action's had resulted in a united galaxy. But nope. Geth and Edi, or no Geth and Edi. Everyone still has to die...... probably because the Catlayst stomped a foot and screamed. "Nonononono!!! This cycle doens't count"!

[Nole]

Yes, the game is not as bad as people in this forum make it seem. Shocking.

[oblique9]

I do believe most of ME3 is well done, though I would say ME2 is on the whole (not counting the endings) a better game, IMO.

The rage about the ending(s) to ME3 on this forum is deserved.

Pretending like ALL of ME3 is crap is not.

Modifié par oblique9, 04 juin 2013 - 06:12 .

[ioannisdenton]

TheRealJayDee wrote...

Well, Mass Effect, for me, is over now. Citadel DLC was the final addition to Shepard's story and that was it. I'm not satisfied with how his story was concluded, but it is what we got. I'm genuinely happy for every Mass Effect fan who is satisfied with the game as a whole and the endings in particular, I really am!

What irks me are the people who tell me my reasons for disliking the endings are that
1) I just can't live without a super-happy ending
2) I'm to dumb to understand the endings
3) I just want to hate on Bioware
because that is all pure bull****, if you excuse my french. These generalizations are as common as they are tiring and frustrating.

It is cool to like the game and the endings. It is cool to dislike the game and the endings. It is not to cool to call people idiots if they have a different view on the game, and that goes for both sides.

I... well, was tempted to write a lot more, but ultimately there is no point. Nobody is likely changing anyone's opinion on any of the fundemental issues anymore, and there won't be any further input from Bioware to break up the deadlocked positions. I just wish everyone here would at least try to keep the insults at a minimum...

QFT especially the undelined sentences.

[txgoldrush]

Wraith 02 wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...
No, you just didn't get it....and many of the main flaws in ME3 have been addressed.

Did I miss a patch or something?

Yeah, It's called sniffing glue until it makes sense.

I tried it but it still didn't make sense, probably because I am too stupid to understand.

The fact that all this crap gets written trying to defend and justify the ending proves just how badly it is written otherwise there would be no need for it.

No, you are just too stupid to actually find what the conflict in the ending really is.

Hint: Find the conflict, then find the themes behind it.

Its not that hard....but BSN manages to be so full of morons...failing to even find the real conflict between the protagonist and antagonist, and the n making wild theories about the ending that the story does not support.

[AresKeith]

txgoldrush wrote...

Wraith 02 wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...
No, you just didn't get it....and many of the main flaws in ME3 have been addressed.

Did I miss a patch or something?

Yeah, It's called sniffing glue until it makes sense.

I tried it but it still didn't make sense, probably because I am too stupid to understand.

The fact that all this crap gets written trying to defend and justify the ending proves just how badly it is written otherwise there would be no need for it.

No, you are just too stupid to actually find what the conflict in the ending really is.

Hint: Find the conflict, then find the themes behind it.

Its not that hard....but BSN manages to be so full of morons...failing to even find the real conflict between the protagonist and antagonist, and the n making wild theories about the ending that the story does not support.

Well someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed with sniffing glue

[txgoldrush]

Wraith 02 wrote...


Damn, the amount of arrogance in your posts is insane.
Blaming the audience for not understanding shoddy writing is cheap, personally insulting somebody's ability to understand something because they don't agree with you however is just plain pathetic.

Sorry it isn't shoddy writing, its a shoddy audience that's is simply not smart enough to not only find the real conflict, but to even find the antagonists character flaws that not only caused the cycle, but led to his defeat by Shepard.

This is what happens when Bioware breaks their clichés I guess.....sorry, but Bioware has a dumb audience.

They complain about choices not mattering in DA2, when.....THATS THE POINT......lol

[txgoldrush]

AresKeith wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Wraith 02 wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...
No, you just didn't get it....and many of the main flaws in ME3 have been addressed.

Did I miss a patch or something?

Yeah, It's called sniffing glue until it makes sense.

I tried it but it still didn't make sense, probably because I am too stupid to understand.

The fact that all this crap gets written trying to defend and justify the ending proves just how badly it is written otherwise there would be no need for it.

No, you are just too stupid to actually find what the conflict in the ending really is.

Hint: Find the conflict, then find the themes behind it.

Its not that hard....but BSN manages to be so full of morons...failing to even find the real conflict between the protagonist and antagonist, and the n making wild theories about the ending that the story does not support.

Well someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed with sniffing glue

don't need sniffing glue to find simple narrative elements.

Its the Indoctrination Theory people that use the sniffing glue.

[Redbelle]

txgoldrush wrote...

No, you are just too stupid to actually find what the conflict in the ending really is.

Hint: Find the conflict, then find the themes behind it.

Its not that hard....but BSN manages to be so full of morons...failing to even find the real conflict between the protagonist and antagonist, and the n making wild theories about the ending that the story does not support.

Ooooookay.

Hint: Try explaining you reasoning to people so that your argument evolves from 'think about it', too 'this is how you could think about it'.

Otherwise, your constant name calling and slander of those who exist within the hallowed halls of BSN, will erupt in a shower of teeth grinding, righteous toe curling display of nerd rage, that will begin and end with the words........

.............. no you.

Modifié par Redbelle, 04 juin 2013 - 08:41 .

[TheRealJayDee]

txgoldrush wrote...

No, you are just too stupid to actually find what the conflict in the ending really is.

Hint: Find the conflict, then find the themes behind it.

Its not that hard....but BSN manages to be so full of morons...failing to even find the real conflict between the protagonist and antagonist, and the n making wild theories about the ending that the story does not support.

If it's not Amioran it's txgoldrush. If it's not txgoldrush it's Auld Wulf. Until one day, far from now, the mighty moderators will finally realize that personal attacks against other users are a banworthy violation of the site rules...


edit: Well, actually Amioran was gone someday, so there's hope, I guess. Still, it boggles my mind how some people can get away with having insults in 80+% of their posts...

Modifié par TheRealJayDee, 04 juin 2013 - 09:28 .

[IntelligentME3Fanboy]

me3 is the best of the trilogy .me1 is awful and me2 is mediocre.

me3 is good

[Redbelle]

IntelligentME3Fanboy wrote...

me3 is the best of the trilogy .me1 is awful and me2 is mediocre.

me3 is good

Becaaauuuuusssssse?

Modifié par Redbelle, 04 juin 2013 - 09:28 .