415 réponses à ce sujet

[handheld]

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

handheld wrote...

Handheld knows surfacebeneath to be a wise and intelligent person Handheld himself asks you to please stop the incessant arguing and watch handhelds video so that we may all Have something else to hate besides each other.

Handheld wishes to promote hugging between the forumites as Hugging is like jello its delicous.

I apologize to Handheld. But I think Handheld knows better than most how much I enjoy a good scuffle with trolls on the internet. I hope Handheld forgives me for this and all future incidences of reverse trolling.

Awww Handheld could never stay mad at you your are just way to awesome a forumite companion to be mad at.

Handheld is not mad that people are arguing about it but Handheld himself thinks enough is enough there are to many of these threads on the old board we dont need them here.

Handheld does not mind the M/M or F/F romances but Handheld knows they arent in the game and this is what matters to handheld is the game as that is why we are all here in the first place is it not.

Handheld asks all of his forumites did you all come here to argue about whos got the bigger stick or did you all come here to talk about Mass effect 2 hmmm.

WHAT SAY YOU FORUMITES?

[Z-Dragon]

i would think a programmer would have more credibility then a dub, but since the dub didn't conclude what the line was (i assume it would be something that easily points to a gay romance) and the programmer was only "pretty sure", both can only be given so much grace (I hope romances are a bit more difficult this time around instead of just being nice to them each time you chatted)

[Wittand25]

Z-Dragon wrote...

here's this by the way

From Thomas R Roy (Associate Programmer):

I didn't work on ME1 but I would venture to say that most of the developers feel that Liara/Femshep is an F/F relationship. I don't know if the "she's an asari" thing was ever intended to take away from the F/F aspect (since I wasn't around when the idea was put together) but nevertheless, she was intended as the gay female love interest.

As far as M/M love interests... I can say that it was planned, but as far as I know it was cut due to time constraints. Quite frankly the demand is small. I'm not defending it, but the choice is between a level that everyone will enjoy and a romance that only a minority will enjoy. We did it in Jade so we're not afraid of it; there just isn't enough time.

Sorry to all the gay ME fans

-Thomas

Original Source:
http://meforums.biow...the gay ME fans

He was talking about ME1 in this post, regarding ME2 there has not been any official confirmation of the existence or absence of same-sex-romances.

Modifié par Wittand25, 18 janvier 2010 - 11:59 .

[SurfaceBeneath]

Z-Dragon wrote...

i would think a programmer would have more credibility then a dub, but since the dub didn't conclude what the line was (i assume it would be something that easily points to a gay romance) and the programmer was only "pretty sure", both can only be given so much grace (I hope romances are a bit more difficult this time around instead of just being nice to them each time you chatted)

Well, you have to consider what the developer was in charge of developing. Most of the developers do not touch the writing component of the game, and therefore their perspective on what is in or not in the game might be different.

A VO would be a very good source because (good) voice recording does not just have the VO record the lines without any context, but requires context and direction as well. I would say that the only people with more credibility than the VO regarding romance options would be the writers themselves.

[SurfaceBeneath]

handheld wrote...

Handheld asks all of his forumites did you all come here to argue about whos got the bigger stick or did you all come here to talk about Mass effect 2 hmmm.

WHAT SAY YOU FORUMITES?

The stick one.

[handheld]

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

handheld wrote...

Handheld asks all of his forumites did you all come here to argue about whos got the bigger stick or did you all come here to talk about Mass effect 2 hmmm.

WHAT SAY YOU FORUMITES?

The stick one.

[Mudzr]

I hope Thane is a male romance interest and Tali is a female romance interest for the sake of choice. I think the relationships with Zeveran and Liliana in DAO were handled really well, expecially since they warned you several times and I never felt pressured. Even as a straight male I romanced everyone, including Zeveran in my first playthrough before cutting it off with him.

That would still mean that there were "6" overal romances and "A lot more" romance options in general. Maybe Casey wasn't thinking of homosexual romances when he said 3 for each... but it seems pretty unlikely and SuZe was pretty much confirmed not to be a bisexual option, which I thought would have been great for my female option.

Well I don't have my hopes up but I think it makes more sence than a Garrus romance, considering Thane was created expecially to be an alien love interest for femshep, why bother when you have Garrus? Samara also seems pretty unlikely aswell...



But from the dev comments it seems a male/ male was definatly considered this time around....

Owell, either way it's the actual game that will effect my enjoyment of ME2.

[Z-Dragon]

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

Z-Dragon wrote...

i would think a programmer would have more credibility then a dub, but since the dub didn't conclude what the line was (i assume it would be something that easily points to a gay romance) and the programmer was only "pretty sure", both can only be given so much grace (I hope romances are a bit more difficult this time around instead of just being nice to them each time you chatted)

Well, you have to consider what the developer was in charge of developing. Most of the developers do not touch the writing component of the game, and therefore their perspective on what is in or not in the game might be different.

A VO would be a very good source because (good) voice recording does not just have the VO record the lines without any context, but requires context and direction as well. I would say that the only people with more credibility than the VO regarding romance options would be the writers themselves.

But you also have to consider the possibility of things being lost in translation with interviewers and such

i know that's a stupid argument, but i'm really hoping there's more then 2 possible human LI's for male shepard

I think part of it though is that the writter's may have just not ever had that in their idea of who male shepard, i would THINK that if they were to have him be bi that would've shown through a bit more in the 1st instead of him just randomly showing an interest in guys in the 2nd; i remember in a posting they said the reason shepard would never have long hair (remember that whole fiasco miranda's character model started XD) is because they never saw him/her as being that way

Also i feel like it would be weird for there not to be F/F romance in ME2 (apparently asari don't count according to Casey Hudson) but they do have M/M romance (unless Thane turns out to be asexual as well......)

[SurfaceBeneath]

handheld wrote...

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

handheld wrote...

Handheld asks all of his forumites did you all come here to argue about whos got the bigger stick or did you all come here to talk about Mass effect 2 hmmm.

WHAT SAY YOU FORUMITES?

The stick one.

A million apologies to handheld. However, sometimes I get bored at work and would much rather fight than "discuss". I hope handheld can understand, or at least accept, that his treasured forum companion is not always the model of virtue.

[handheld]

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

handheld wrote...

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

handheld wrote...

Handheld asks all of his forumites did you all come here to argue about whos got the bigger stick or did you all come here to talk about Mass effect 2 hmmm.

WHAT SAY YOU FORUMITES?

The stick one.

A million apologies to handheld. However, sometimes I get bored at work and would much rather fight than "discuss". I hope handheld can understand, or at least accept, that his treasured forum companion is not always the model of virtue.

Handheld could never be mad at you Handheld only has one requirement if you wish to fight.

Handhelds requirement for his forumite companion is that you fight using facts and evidence and logic and not outright idiocy and terrible amy winehouse jokes.

Handheld would actually like to make that a requirement for all forumites is that if you must argue then you provide proof of your argument and an explanation of your proof instead of outright terrible amy winehouse jokes.

[SurfaceBeneath]

Z-Dragon wrote...

i know that's a stupid argument, but i'm really hoping there's more then 2 possible human LI's for male shepard

I don't think it's a stupid argument, but I still hold by the polish VO being the most credible source we've heard on the subject of M/M romances so far.

Also, the only ME2 LIs we have positively confirmed (or at least in
Suze's case... in Miranda's it is about as close to confirmed as you
can get) are both human, so you should get what you want.

Also i feel like it would be weird for there not to be F/F romance in ME2 (apparently asari don't count according to Casey Hudson) but they do have M/M romance (unless Thane turns out to be asexual as well......)

Casey's comment is a minefield for speculation. For one, we don't know if, when he said ME1 and ME2 don't have F/F romances, if he was referring to exclusively lesbian romances in which males were locked out. They might go the JE and DA:O route of having a few bi relationships. There's also the outright implication in what he said that Samara is a F/F romance option for ME2, as he juxtaposed the statement that there's no F/F romance in ME2 next to explaining why Liara doesn't technically count. He also missaid Tali instead of Liara, so there's a chance he doesn't actually know for sure (and since he said he only "recalls" that there are 3 romances for each gender, that tends to reinforce that interpretation). In the end, I think it's hard to draw any concrete conclusions from Casey's interview about the existence of homosexual romances in ME2.

[SerenityRebirth]

Has it not been already confirmed that there won't be any M/M romances? And also that the F/F is not what Chris considers a F/F relationship?



Would be nice if I were wrong...

[GreenSoda]

Z-Dragon wrote...

here's this by the way

From Thomas R Roy (Associate Programmer):

I didn't work on ME1 but I would venture to say that most of the developers feel that Liara/Femshep is an F/F relationship. I don't know if the "she's an asari" thing was ever intended to take away from the F/F aspect (since I wasn't around when the idea was put together) but nevertheless, she was intended as the gay female love interest.

Of course she was. During your dialogues with Liara, as a femshep, one possible option on the dialogue wheel was "But you are female!".

I don't think anyone really doubts that. That dev (was it Chris ? -don't remember) who said that there where "no f/f romances in ME1 (since asari are alien durr hurr)" was just being technical.

[finc.loki]

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

finc.loki wrote...

Really?

So stating an opinion that happens to be different from you is trolling.
How convenient.

From now on , everyone that doesn't agree with me is a troll /sarcasm.

I would argue you're the troll here since you don't even bring up a counter argument, but just flame, that is definition of trolling.

Oh, I'm sorry. I assume when someone posts a completely unintelligent opinion berefit of any actual substance that they are trolling and not just tragically stupid.

I humbly apologize and take back my statement that you were trolling.

Sorry, but I think it is you that lack in the intelligence department.

Once more, having a difference of opinion doesn't mean someone is unintelligent, that is just you making an ad hominem attack cause you lack arguments.

How is it also lacking of substance (my comment) when I responding to a topic that is substantial.

I am OK with gay romances in the game, they exist in DAO.
 I am taking a counter standpoint to all these silly threads that is overwhelming the game.
It is like this game or ANY Bioware game now is all about sexuality, and especially the topic of gay sexuality.

It was the same with DAO as it is with this game.

It is Bioware's decision and apparently they don't see Liara as a female, and she isn't either.

Only reason we see gay and straight is for the simple reason we have two genders, two opposites.
In a land of only good or evil they do not know what the counter part is.

Romances in their games is a little extra, but so many forumites turn it into the most important part.

You all have to understand us "fans" on their forums are just but a drop in the ocean of the actual sales.

I just think this whole thing as gone overboard now. When things like that happen in my opinion I usually play the devil's advocate and take the other stance.

It is really ignorant and pathetic to attack a person that is of different mind/opinion and say he is a troll or unintelligent.
Among intelligent people it quickly become apparant who is lacking the intelligence.

I humbly apologize for lambasting you, I should know better than to pick on people of feable mind.

Modifié par finc.loki, 18 janvier 2010 - 12:18 .

[SurfaceBeneath]

handheld wrote...

Handheld could never be mad at you Handheld only has one requirement if you wish to fight.

Handhelds requirement for his forumite companion is that you fight using facts and evidence and logic and not outright idiocy and terrible amy winehouse jokes.

Handheld would actually like to make that a requirement for all forumites is that if you must argue then you provide proof of your argument and an explanation of your proof instead of outright terrible amy winehouse jokes.

I understand that handheld only wishes to foster peace in handheld's new forum playground and possibly protect his forumite companion from the Powers That Be whom might ban handheld's more exuberant companions from suspension from this lush playground.

Understanding this, I will try to keep the outright trolling to a minimum for at least the first 5 hours of my work shift. After that point however, I am afraid I get ants in my pants and look for amusement wherever I can.

[Z-Dragon]

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

Z-Dragon wrote...

i know that's a stupid argument, but i'm really hoping there's more then 2 possible human LI's for male shepard

I don't think it's a stupid argument, but I still hold by the polish VO being the most credible source we've heard on the subject of M/M romances so far.

Also, the only ME2 LIs we have positively confirmed (or at least in
Suze's case... in Miranda's it is about as close to confirmed as you
can get) are both human, so you should get what you want.

Just a point of clarrification, when i said "more then 2 possible human LI's" i was going based of that Casey Hudson interview about there being only 3 romances for each sex, cause if there was a gay romance, that would mean there were only 2 female love interest for Male Shep and i would be a sad panda

Tali would be good, but i REALLY don't see it happening, and i would enjoy a possible one with Samara (though introducing her to Liara might be awkward...), and i don't care about kelly chambers cause she's not are pretty as the "worked on" faces the squad members have XD

Hope the romance writing is as good as it was for DA:O

Edit: Should've have said "more then 2 female LI's for Male Shep"

Modifié par Z-Dragon, 18 janvier 2010 - 12:22 .

[handheld]

finc.loki wrote...

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

finc.loki wrote...

Really?

So stating an opinion that happens to be different from you is trolling.
How convenient.

From now on , everyone that doesn't agree with me is a troll /sarcasm.

I would argue you're the troll here since you don't even bring up a counter argument, but just flame, that is definition of trolling.

Oh, I'm sorry. I assume when someone posts a completely unintelligent opinion berefit of any actual substance that they are trolling and not just tragically stupid.

I humbly apologize and take back my statement that you were trolling.

I have now realized that i have dragged on a argument that ended a couple posts back and am now feeling stupid and shall apologize to Handhelds forumite companion for my rudeness and i also apologize to Handheld for being ignorant of the fact the argument ended.

I hope Handheld finds compassion in his heart to forgive a fellow forumite such as myself.

Handheld has edited your post to reflect the truth.

Handheld also forgives you as Handheld does not harbor hate for any of his fellow forumites.

[bjdbwea]

Let's face it: The majority of players are male (no offense to any female gamers, it's just the truth). And while fortunately we have today a society that's as tolerant as never before in history, most men would simply not be interested in seeing a virtual romance between their PC and another man. Romances between a female PC and female NPCs seem to be quite popular though, judging not at least by the popularity of respective mods. Yes, I would like to have that option too for some of hopefully many playthroughs of ME 2. I've read about several things now that are cut from ME 2 that were there in ME 1, I really hope this isn't a trend.

[SurfaceBeneath]

finc.loki wrote...

It is really ignorant and pathetic to attack a person that is of different mind/opinion and say he is a troll or unintelligent.
Among intelligent people it quickly become apparant who is lacking the intelligence.

I'm not attacking you for having a different opinion. I'm attacking you because you've an opinion that can't be supported by any actual facts. 4 for 4 of the last Bioware games did have homosexual romances of some kind (Juhani in KOTOR, Sky and Fox in JE, Liara and the entire Asari race in ME, and Zevran and Leliana in DA:O), and so saying that it's not some kind of interest among Bioware to include these kinds of romances because they appeal to a limited playerbase (which again is not just the gay and bi community but also many of heterosexuals who enjoy these romances as well) is blatently ignoring Bioware's actions in the past. It also presents an argument that is easily attacked by saying that Bioware should not include other minorities in their games due to "lack of interest". By this logic, should Bioware remove all dark skin shade options in exchange for more lighter skinned options that would appeal more to the white gaming audiance since the black gaming audiance is statistically much lower than whites? No. Should the option of a female Shepard be taken away since statistically much fewer people will play a female Shepard than a male? Again, no. Should all female LIs be taken away since the percentage of people who romance male NPCs is going to be dramatically lower than the percentage of people who romance female NPCs be? No again. And it's ridiculous to say so. However, these are the kinds of rebuttals the "lack of interest" argument has to contend with.

I hope that handheld approves of this method of counterargument, as I tried very hard to make something that would please handheld.

Modifié par SurfaceBeneath, 18 janvier 2010 - 12:28 .

[handheld]

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

finc.loki wrote...

It is really ignorant and pathetic to attack a person that is of different mind/opinion and say he is a troll or unintelligent.
Among intelligent people it quickly become apparant who is lacking the intelligence.

I'm not attacking you for having a different opinion. I'm attacking you because you've an opinion that can't be supported by any actual facts. 4 for 4 of the last Bioware games did have homosexual romances of some kind (Juhani in KOTOR, Sky and Fox in JE, Liara and the entire Asari race in ME, and Zevran and Leliana in DA:O), and so saying that it's not some kind of interest among Bioware to include these kinds of romances because they appeal to a limited playerbase (which again is not just the gay and bi community but also many of heterosexuals who enjoy these romances as well) is blatently ignoring Bioware's actions in the past. It also presents an argument that is easily attacked by saying that Bioware should not include other minorities in their games due to "lack of interest". By this logic, should Bioware remove all dark skin shade options in exchange for more lighter skinned options that would appeal more to the white gaming audiance since the black gaming audiance is statistically much lower than whites? No. And it's ridiculous to say so. However, this is the kind of rebuttal the "lack of interest" argument has to contend with.

I hope that handheld approves of this method of counterargument, as I tried very hard to make something that would please handheld.

[finc.loki]

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

handheld wrote...

Handheld could never be mad at you Handheld only has one requirement if you wish to fight.

Handhelds requirement for his forumite companion is that you fight using facts and evidence and logic and not outright idiocy and terrible amy winehouse jokes.

Handheld would actually like to make that a requirement for all forumites is that if you must argue then you provide proof of your argument and an explanation of your proof instead of outright terrible amy winehouse jokes.

I understand that handheld only wishes to foster peace in handheld's new forum playground and possibly protect his forumite companion from the Powers That Be whom might ban handheld's more exuberant companions from suspension from this lush playground.

Understanding this, I will try to keep the outright trolling to a minimum for at least the first 5 hours of my work shift. After that point however, I am afraid I get ants in my pants and look for amusement wherever I can.

Thank you for proving and admitting that you're the troll.

Also, why would anyone be banned for having a different stance/opinion, last time I checked this forum is not run by ****'s?
Here's a notion, how about you actually learn what "forum" stand for.

Quite frankly, you're quite easy to argue with since your comments are devoid of any arguments and filled to the brim with tripe.
That said, it is also self evident that "arguing" with you is pointless for above mentioned reason.

Have a nice day!

[finc.loki]

handheld wrote...

finc.loki wrote...

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

finc.loki wrote...

Really?

So stating an opinion that happens to be different from you is trolling.
How convenient.

From now on , everyone that doesn't agree with me is a troll /sarcasm.

I would argue you're the troll here since you don't even bring up a counter argument, but just flame, that is definition of trolling.

Oh, I'm sorry. I assume when someone posts a completely unintelligent opinion berefit of any actual substance that they are trolling and not just tragically stupid.

I humbly apologize and take back my statement that you were trolling.

I have now realized that i have dragged on a argument that ended a couple posts back and am now feeling stupid and shall apologize to Handhelds forumite companion for my rudeness and i also apologize to Handheld for being ignorant of the fact the argument ended.

I hope Handheld finds compassion in his heart to forgive a fellow forumite such as myself.

Handheld has edited your post to reflect the truth.

Handheld also forgives you as Handheld does not harbor hate for any of his fellow forumites.

Are you serious?

Did you not see how she/he was offending me by calling me unintelligent and stupid.
I guess the sarcastic " I apologize" went over your head there Handheld.

Do not edit my posts, it speaks for itself.

Don't ****** me off as well Handheld.

[SurfaceBeneath]

finc.loki wrote...

Thank you for proving and admitting that you're the troll.

Also, why would anyone be banned for having a different stance/opinion, last time I checked this forum is not run by ****'s?
Here's a notion, how about you actually learn what "forum" stand for.

Quite frankly, you're quite easy to argue with since your comments are devoid of any arguments and filled to the brim with tripe.
That said, it is also self evident that "arguing" with you is pointless for above mentioned reason.

Have a nice day!

I absolutely troll anyone whom I feel deserves it. I've not denied it at any time in the past.

To handheld:
I hope this kind of post explains to handheld why reverse trolling is many times the superior method of dealing with trolls. If you actually make a coherent argument against them, they just fall back to their trollish instincts and attempt to invalidate whatever points you may have made by backpeddaling and name calling. Notice how he ignores everything I stated in my actual counterargument which was filled with many good points and instead calls both of us names? Honorless forumites deserve no honor.

Modifié par SurfaceBeneath, 18 janvier 2010 - 12:44 .

[Jebel Krong]

finc.loki wrote...

Are you serious?

Did you not see how she/he was offending me by calling me unintelligent and stupid.
I guess the sarcastic " I apologize" went over your head there Handheld.

Do not edit my posts, it speaks for itself.

Don't ****** me off as well Handheld.

oooh an internet tough guy!

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 18 janvier 2010 - 12:51 .

[Keltoris]

Geez, this is still going?



/is fairly impressed.



I wonder how much conflict on the forums is being caused by "OMG IT'S A WEEK AWAY" tension, and how much is just the Internet being Serious Business..



Oh well.