17 réponses à ce sujet

[Squidmaster]

 I'm playing a multiplayer game with my girlfriend where each of us has a character we have rolled, with the rest of the slots being filled by NPC's. We have the Baldur's Gate Trilogy installed, and plan to play through both games using the mods recommended on the Gog Baldur's Gate page. We are leaving open the possibility of changing our proficiencies around at the time of the transition from the first to the second game, since that's how it works with the basic installations anyway.

What weapons would you recommend for us? I have a gnome fighter/illusionist, and she has an elf fighter/thief who is currently focused on stealth. My gnome is the main character, for what it is worth. I'm inclined to use him as a front liner, using spells to enhance that, but I'm willing to entertain other interesting ideas.

Thanks for your time!

[Grond0]

I find axes to be useful for BG2. Referring back to the replies to your earlier thread that allows you to use a shield with a decent ranged weapon. If you want to be able to use Azuredge (great against undead) you need to be good aligned. The shield of harmony is a decent all-round protection in the early stages of the game with Balduran's (vs beholders) and reflection (vs archers) useful for specific purposes. Later in the game your buffs will be good enough to allow you to transition safely to dual wielding - an APR enhancer, such as Belm, is likely to the best choice. With improved haste that will allow you to get to 9 APR (10 APR later on if you complete Watcher's Keep), which will make you less dependent on GWW than a stand-alone fighter.

For the fighter/thief, staff proficiency allows best use of the staff of striking, which will maximise backstab damage. As indicated in the earlier thread shortbows are a good alternative for ranged attacks, though there's also an argument for crossbows in order to make good use of Firetooth.

[Khargthemerciless]

If you don't want to go the dual wield path there are some good two handed weapons around.

I would put two stars in a ranged weapon - axes are great once you get a returning weapon, but until then their weight at 5 lbs each make it difficult to use them consistently as a ranged weapon. Or crossbow can be decent and fit well with a gnome. Shortbow is also good but might be being used by your gf's ftr/thief.

I'd put the other two starting points in halberds - lots of great ones in BG2 and no one else inherently uses them. Two handed swords are another possibility. At 3rd level I'd take quarterstaffs, at 6th level I'd take twohand style, at 9th another in quarterstaffs.

The ranged weapon lets you stay out of your own webs and other persistent area damage effects, switch to the two hander to smack down up close. Also the length of two handed weapons let you stay in the second row and hit the enemy with someone or something between you and them. I found this helps a lot in reducing damage taken and gives enough distance to drop a spell as needed. Dual wield puts you right in the thick of it which makes it hard to disengage to get a spell off uninterrupted.

W/o the grandmastery fix and the multiclass tweak you'd have 5/2 attacks at 13th level, with those mods you'd be at 7/2 attacks. Improved haste would take you to 5 or 7 attacks per round and whirlwind gets you ten attacks per round. Also two handed weapons tend to have higher enchantments than one handed weapons.

[Gate70]

Fighter/Thief
Melee damage is generally important as it is multiplied by backstab. e.g. a 4xbackstab would be 4-16 for a standard dagger but 4-40 for a standard katana.

Dagger (base of 1-4 damage): The dagger of venom is an interesting option, not massive damage from a backstab but will leave a trail of poison that interrupts them for a short while so you can escape easier to hide and return. Most enemies will be affected (not Sarevok, possibly not Tazok / Semaj).  Until you can afford it you can pick up a free dagger +2 by speaking to Hentold (location below) while throwing daggers are plentiful/cheap or free if you scavenge around High Hedge. Daggers aren't a great choice in BG2.
http://mikesrpgcente...ofcarnival.html

Long sword (base of 1-8 damage): IMO the best choice for an elf as they get a bonus with it (due to game implementation this benefit may cover other bladed weapon types though). For BG1 Protect Prism outside Nashkel mine and kill Greywolf for his longsword (+2 with cold damage). For BG2 buy the longsword +3 from the Copper Coronet in the slums.

Quarterstaff (base of 1-6 damage): For BG1 there is a BG1 quarterstaff +3 in Ulgoths Beard. For BG2 quarterstaffs are the best choice against many golems types. n.b. the staff of striking can only be used so many times (25?) so I never bother with it. The staff of Rynn +4 is available at the Adventurers Mart in the Promenade.

Katana (base of 1-10 damage): Not a good BG1 choice (none available in unmodded game). Does more damage than long sword or quarterstaff.

Weapon style. Single weapon style (dagger / long sword / katana) and 2 handed weapon style (staff) will make a fighter / thief more effective.

Ranged: Shortbow is the easy choice. The beastmaster in the Copper Coronet has a shortbow which gives an extra attack each round. If you get the parts assembled the Gesen shortbow will shoot through many defensive buffs. Crossbow will also work, the Firetooth bow outside Watchers Keep is +5 before upgrading and adds fire damage so can be used to finish off trolls but crossbows fire at a slower rate.

[Gate70]

Fighter / Illusionist
Last time I multiplayered a F / I I ended up choosing one approach (sling/shield and melee/shield I think) to avoid inventory hops. That is the only multiplayer game I've no-reloaded the trilogy on too, thanks to Grond0.

So either go for a single approach as above for smoother gameplay or optimise for each encounter if your girlfriend doesn't mind you taking time to change weapons. She will also be waiting for you to cast buffs too, so may make sense for her to buff other party members while she waits.

For an optimised approach I'd treat this character like a Swiss army knife in BG2, switching weapons to foil the enemy. A fighter / illusionist can make good use of most things even if non-proficient, by using Improved Haste, an offhand weapon such as Belm /Kundane or a Whirlwind type of attack to increase the number of attacks.

The Flail of Ages +3 is a good general purpose weapon with elemental damage and chance of slowing enemies. 

Sample early game killers:
Undead: Azuredge throwing axe, Improved Mace of Disruption.

Sample late game killers:
Trolls. Crom Faeyr war hammer.
Salamanders / Efreeti / fire elementals. Wave halberd.
Everything else. Ravager halberd, silver 2 handed sword, Axe of Unyielding, etc.

[Squidmaster]

Right now in BG 1, my character is using two-handed swords, longbows, and one point in two-handed weapon style. My girlfriend's character is using long swords, short bows, and single weapon style. I feel like these are strong choices for the first game, but not necessarily for the second game.

With regards to the second game, I must admit I'm a little surprised to see so much support for the weapon and shield style of play. My understanding was that armor class became much more irrelevant in the second game compared to the first. What is the reasoning for sticking with the shield?

When I initially created my character, I was torn between using a two-handed weapon or two weapons. There is a certain comedy factor with having a gnome use really large weapons, but that could be said of willing to large weapons as well, especially if they are katanas, which I understand are good choice for the fighter/mage. My personal assessment suggests that the two-handed weapon user benefits from a bit more versatility, while the two weapon user just does more damage.

Just how much difference is there between the different styles when it comes to damage output? I know there are two weapons in the game that increase attacks by 1. Do they increase the main hand attacks, or attacks with that specific weapon? That seems like it would be very significant to choosing whether or not to use them. Are these weapons as good in practice as they appear at a glance? It seems like later in the game you might be sucking up an attack that any given monster will be immune to in order to see a higher attacks per round on the character sheet.

I'm intrigued by the weapon suggestions for the fighter/thief as well. I would've thought that dual wielding would be the ideal choice for a fighter/thief, so that they could backstab with the main hand and then continue fighting thereafter. If such a character is using a staff, what is the play style? What does the fighter part contribute?

Thanks again everybody. I'm really loving what I'm reading so far.

[Grond0]

Squidmaster wrote...
With regards to the second game, I must admit I'm a little surprised to see so much support for the weapon and shield style of play. My understanding was that armor class became much more irrelevant in the second game compared to the first. What is the reasoning for sticking with the shield?

AC becomes less important for most characters in ToB, but a low AC will certainly be helpful throughout SoA.  Shields can also give you useful benefits such as spell immunities and damage resistance.

Just how much difference is there between the different styles when it comes to damage output? I know there are two weapons in the game that increase attacks by 1. Do they increase the main hand attacks, or attacks with that specific weapon? That seems like it would be very significant to choosing whether or not to use them. Are these weapons as good in practice as they appear at a glance? It seems like later in the game you might be sucking up an attack that any given monster will be immune to in order to see a higher attacks per round on the character sheet.

They increase main hand attacks and, yes, that is pretty useful even if a monster is immune to the off-hand weapon.

[Khargthemerciless]

Squidmaster wrote...


Just how much difference is there between the different styles when it comes to damage output? I know there are two weapons in the game that increase attacks by 1. Do they increase the main hand attacks, or attacks with that specific weapon? That seems like it would be very significant to choosing whether or not to use them. Are these weapons as good in practice as they appear at a glance? It seems like later in the game you might be sucking up an attack that any given monster will be immune to in order to see a higher attacks per round on the character sheet.

I'm intrigued by the weapon suggestions for the fighter/thief as well. I would've thought that dual wielding would be the ideal choice for a fighter/thief, so that they could backstab with the main hand and then continue fighting thereafter. If such a character is using a staff, what is the play style? What does the fighter part contribute?

Thanks again everybody. I'm really loving what I'm reading so far.

With regards to the dual wielding with Belm or Kundune, the extra attack is with the main hand. For example:

You are at 13th level - you get 5/2 attacks with one hand, you add an off hand weapon you get 5/2 attack with main and one with the offhand for total of 7/2 attacks. If the offhand was Belm you get 5/2 attack main hand +1 attack mainhand and one attack with Belm for a total of 9/2 attacks of which 7/2 are with your main hand.

In the event that the +2 of Belm is insufficient to affect enemy then the comparison is 7/2 attack with main hand (the Belm attack is ineffective) Vs  5/2 attack with main plus one attack with another offhand weapon with enough enchantment.

If your main hand weapon is a real beast, such as flail of ages, then it is usually better to hit more times with it than to worry about the offhand contributing as much or at all. This gets more pronounced if you have grandmastery in the main hand as it adds more damage compared to a one or two stars in your offhand weapon.

For the fighter/thief you can only backstab once, the off hand does not help and with less than two stars in dual will hinder. If you have single weapon style you get +1 to AC but more importantly an increased critical range of 19 or 20. Two handed weapon style also has this increased crit range and also adds +1 to damage. This damage add from weapon style, any weapon enchantment and any damage add from proficiency gets multiplied by your backstab, strength damage is added after the multiplying effect.

Also using dual weapons and changing to a ranged weapon gets to be a pain.

[Squidmaster]

Thanks for this information. These choices are difficult, which I suppose is good because it means that they are reasonably balanced with one another.

At the moment, I'm leaning toward either starting with katana and shield (to take advantage of the zerth blade and Celestial Fury once that fight isn't too tough), moving into dual wielding with either two katanas or a short sword or scimitar, or going with a more flexible two-handed weapon build that would probably include spears (The Impaler seems really strong), with an option to use bows as needed.

I'm still kind of unclear on how the fighter/thief plays beyond the initial backstab. I totally understand the merits of making that backstab count for all it's worth, but what happens after that? Doesn't single weapon style fall way behind after the backstab lands? The same could be said of using a staff I would imagine.

[Gate70]

Boots of speed or other haste, hide and return for another backstab. Or invisibility from a ring or similar item. Single weapon style gives a critical on 19.

Dual wielding a fighter/thief is better suited to a swashbuckler style than a shadow stealth style so depends if that's how the game pans out.

From what I'm reading, I would say try it. You should have sufficient weapon proficiencies to give it a go.

[Squidmaster]

Does that result in higher (or better focused) damage output than standing put in continuing to swing? One perk of the fighter/thief could be to choose some non-thief weapons swap to after the backstab if the environment is not conducive to running out and repeating.

[ussnorway]

The reality is that continuous backstabbing in a mulitiplayer game can get boring for the other person so a more typical scenario would be;
1. Thief lays some traps at her bfs’ feet then stealth’s ahead to scout while the Fighter~ Illusionist buffs up.
2. Our daring heroine picks her victim (let’s say a mage since her backstab has a good chance to one shot him) then retreats back to her brave bf.
3. By this time the Fighter~ Illusionist aka. “Shorty” is ready and the front rank of avenging peons will run smack into his GF’s traps... so he just tidies up with a swing or two anyway.

You probably won’t go to all this trouble for every fight but this tactic plays to both characters strengths and can turn a nasty battle into something much more manageable.

[Gate70]

I like that scenario.

Attacking from shadows gives a +4 to attack, so more likely to connect. Retreating to hide means the lightly armoured character doesn't become an easy target. There are many encounters where a handy corner or obstacle can see you hidden within a couple of seconds and ready to return. There will be other encounters where it is best to stay and fight.

[Squidmaster]

That does sound pretty solid, but I fear that traps set at my gnomes' feet might be set off by the multitude of peasant women that will be flocking around me. Everyone knows that gnomes are irresistible.

What are the standard buffs for a fighter/mage, other than stone skin, mirror image, and protection for magic weapons?

[Grond0]

Depends what spells you're using. I quite like the long-lasting protection from magic energy in combination with skull traps dropped at your feet. Spirit armour is great not just for the AC but the boost to spell saving throws as well. Protection from fire may be handy if you're chucking fireballs around. Blur gives you more staying power and improved saves. For lots of enemies protection from evil is useful as well. When fighting mages spell immunity can be helpful to prevent them from debuffing all those nice spells you've spent time casting.

[ussnorway]

Are you facing a lot of summons?

A ‘Deathfog’ will dismiss the summons and slowly kill whatever called on them (the Warden anyone)... ‘Protection from Acid’ makes you immune to it.

[Squidmaster]

I don't think I would've thought to use blur, since it is of the same level as mirror image. I will check it out. Right now I don't even think I have found that spell yet. My guy is only level 4/4, so he is at the very early stages of this process.

I'm still not sure which weapon combo I'm going to go with in the long run, but if I go with the katana route that I described, would I be better off with the zerth blade in the offhand, or is the extra attack from Belm or Kundane worth more than an additional first through fourth level spell?

[Grimwald the Wise]

Earlier on buying a +3 sword was suggested.
To my way of thinking that is a waste of money when you can create a magical weapon +3.
In addition to that I would use my hasted fighter/thief to sneak in and get Daystar in the Gate District. Yes it is only +2, but it has other very useful attributes as well. He will be able to get in and out before being attacked by the lich. Once you have the identified sword, you can use it to take on the lich as well if you want. Once you use the right tactics, (some might say cheesy) that battle is easy.