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[Grond0]

Introduction
Gate70 was asked recently how many times he had completed BG1.  While the answer may be lost in the mists of time, the question crystallized an ambition to complete the game solo using all available character classes.  This thread is designed to meet that ambition!

The intention is to make sure all character classes have no-reloaded BG1 using the same mod setup.  Initially, we'll move on to new classes once someone has completed each class, but we might return to ones not done individually at a later date in order to get a full collection each.  That could take some time given that there are 41 sole classes in standard BG1 and we're also considering completing multi-classes and the additional 6 sole classes offered by BGEE in due course.

This initial post will be kept updated with a summary of overall progress through the classes.  This linked spreadsheet provides the detail behind this.

Anyone is welcome to participate in the challenge - whether aiming to complete all classes or just having a try at a specific class. I'll update this initial post and the spreadsheet with a summary of any successes and failures posted in this thread.


Terms of the challenge
Mods used - Fixpack, BGT, SCS, Item Randomiser, Generalised Biffing (see Weidu log below for details of components).
Difficulty level - Core.
Character stats - set at 14 for all stats / classes except where class minimums require higher figures (such as the 17 charisma required for a paladin).


classes currently completed
Berserker
Assassin


Weidu log for mod setup
// Log of Currently Installed WeiDU Mods
// The top of the file is the 'oldest' mod
// ~TP2_File~ #language_number #component_number // [Subcomponent Name -> ] Component Name [ : Version]
~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #0 // BG2 Fixpack - Core Fixes: v10
~SETUP-BGT.TP2~ #0 #0 // Baldur's Gate Trilogy - Core: 1.18 (28 Apr 13)
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #10 // Initialise (required by almost all other mod components): v21
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #3001 // Standardise spells: BG1 vs BG2 -> Introduce BG2 spell scrolls into BG1: v21
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #3010 // Faster Bears: v21
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #4010 // Remove blur effect from displacer cloak: v21
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #5000 // Smarter general AI: v21
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #5010 // Better calls for help: v21
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #5022 // Potions for NPCs -> Half the potions dropped by slain enemies break and are lost: v21
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #5031 // Smarter mages -> Mages use spells from BG1 and BG2; mages do not pre-buff: v21
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #5041 // Smarter priests -> Priests use spells from BG1 and BG2; priests do not pre-buff: v21
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #5050 // Smarter deployment: v21
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #5070 // Smarter sirines and dryads: v21
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #5080 // Slightly harder carrion crawlers: v21
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #5090 // Smarter basilisks: v21
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #6005 // Harder giant and phase spiders: v21
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #6010 // Tougher Black Talons and Iron Throne guards: v21
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #6020 // Improved deployment for parties of assassins: v21
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #6030 // Dark Side-based kobold upgrade: v21
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #6040 // Relocated bounty hunters: v21
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #6100 // Improved Bassilus: v21
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #6110 // Improved Drasus party: v21
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #6130 // Improved Undercity party: v21
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #6140 // Improved minor encounters: v21
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #6150 // Tougher chapter-two end battle: v21
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #6160 // Tougher chapter-three end battle: v21
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #6170 // Tougher chapter-four end battle: v21
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #6180 // Tougher chapter-five end battle: v21
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #6190 // Tougher chapter-six end battle: v21
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #6200 // Improved final battle: v21
~RANDOMISER/RANDOMISER.TP2~ #0 #500 // Randomly replace the WIS tome normally found in TotSC with one of the 6 available types: v6.8
~RANDOMISER/RANDOMISER.TP2~ #0 #530 // Randomise scrolls: v6.8
~RANDOMISER/RANDOMISER.TP2~ #0 #570 // Randomise the appearance of cursed items: v6.8
~RANDOMISER/RANDOMISER.TP2~ #0 #1100 // Randomise items -> Mode 1: Randomise with in-game scripts. No items are lost: v6.8
~GENERALIZED_BIFFING/GENERALIZED_BIFFING.TP2~ #0 #0 // Generalized Biffing: v2.2

Modifié par Grond0, 07 juin 2013 - 08:51 .

[Grond0]

The early stages of this challenge have proved rather more difficult than we anticipated.  Gate70 has relatively little experience with SCS and is still going up the learning curve of the changes that makes.

I've used SCS quite a bit, so wasn't too worried about that by itself.  However, the combination of the combat nerfing associated with stats being set at 14 and the unavailability of short-cuts due to Item Randomizer meant my first run took far longer than I originally expected.

However, my berserker, Primo, eventually made it through to kill Sarevok.  On the way he had two close escapes:
- the first was in the Nashkel mines when the kobold shaman sent a charm person spell off when I wasn't expecting it.  There was only just time for Primo to enrage before the spell reached him.
- the second was after Primo had worked hard to kill all the giant spiders in the Cloakwood.  He had literally just used a Bhaal healing on himself when a natural lightning strike hit that would have killed him without those extra HPs.  Fortunately there was enough time left on his rage to take a couple of potions before his rage wore off.
- the battle with Sarevok was complicated by the need to carry potions - meaning he had limited space for ammunition.  However, he was able to pick up enough spare ammo from Diarmid, Angelo and the skeleton warriors to be able to shoot down Sarevok without the need to risk any melee.

Here's his final character record:

Modifié par Grond0, 03 juin 2013 - 05:51 .

[corey_russell]

Grond0, you didn't say in your initial post - do you HAVE to be solo, or can you use a party to complete this challenge? A party can negate the problems of having 14 stats, but much worse if solo.

Grats on taking down Sarevok once again. I noticed you used Berserker - has to be easiest one, those immunities and armor make a big difference. Solo mages will be interesting (e.g., not sorcerer).

[Grond0]

The intention was that it would just be a solo challenge yes. I chose berserker to start with as I expected that to be the easiest, but I'm not sure that's actually true in this challenge. Without any constitution bonus HPs or dexterity bonus to AC the berserker was pretty vulnerable in battles even when raged. I've now started an assassin, who's currently shaping up to be a lot easier thanks to the availability of stealth and poison.

[corey_russell]

Grond0 wrote...

The intention was that it would just be a solo challenge yes. I chose berserker to start with as I expected that to be the easiest, but I'm not sure that's actually true in this challenge. Without any constitution bonus HPs or dexterity bonus to AC the berserker was pretty vulnerable in battles even when raged. I've now started an assassin, who's currently shaping up to be a lot easier thanks to the availability of stealth and poison.

If that's the intention, that should be spelled out in the rules then (e.g. must be solo no party). Can you recruit someone even temporarily (e.g, such as Garrick for pick-pocketing) or solo only the entire way?

[Gate70]

The only NPC interactions I'm doing is taking potions from Imoen, Montaron and Jaheira. I expect Grond0 isn't even doing that.

You should see the dusty outlines of 3 berserkers, 1 monk, 2 assassins, 1 undead hunter and 2 clerics of Talos so far. Several of them have lasted 4 hours or so, the two exceptions being the monk who survived 2 10 bandit ambushes but not a 3rd at level 2 and the undead hunter who "accidentally" equipped the berserking sword at level 2 them tried to melee some ogres in an ambush.

The last (cleric) got swarmed in Nashkel mine under sanctuary so he couldn't move. As this was my first trip down there I'd only take 10 or so healing potions and eventually had to do a sanctuary then use a potion of invisibility. The kobolds just stood still so I had to resume fighting until defeated. To his credit he lasted about 50 times longer than his skeletons did (AC -1 and -3 missile thanks to a * in sword & shield).

Is this an infinite spawn where you have to inch forward over the bodies (fireball or horror would be nice) or do they stop their breeding eventually?

Modifié par Gate70, 03 juin 2013 - 11:31 .

[Grond0]

It's not infinite no, though there are rather a lot of kobolds compared to the non-SCS mine. I suspect you might find the wand of sleep handy down there for some of your characters.

I've changed the initial post to state solo only.

[Grond0]

My attempt at an assassin just came to a grinding halt against the basilisks. I was already at L7, though with a fairly miserable 20 HP and had cleared most wilderness areas, along with the Nashkel mines. I was trying to save the protection from petrification scroll and just using stealth and poison, but eventually triple-tapped (instead of double-tapped) the pause button, which allowed a basilisk to spot me. Moving and hiding did no good as the fatal gaze was already on it's way ...

[corey_russell]

Tough break there Grond0 - but is this what they say is a false economy? Saving a scroll that could have saved you now?

[Gate70]

The cleric was able to stand his ground for several minutes and with more healing potions he could have progressed. I don't think sleep would have helped, the 1 attack per round and being followed under sanctuary were the problem. Answer to being hard enough so far : No I'm a wuss.

[corey_russell]

If you recall Alesia's comment about that (being followed while invisible/sanctuaried), she says she uses fire resistance potion/necklace of missiles or potion of explosions to deal with that kind of problem.

I wouldn't feel bad, I'm pretty sure I would get comparable results (e.g. failures) being solo and vs. SCS to boot, and using a gimp character on top of that.

[Grond0]

Give the sleep wand a chance - it's almost custom-made to deal with kobolds.

My second attempt at an assassin also failed. Secunda had just hit the level cap and I was playing around with Marek a bit rather than finishing him quickly. That proved costly when he duplicated on the other side of a door while her aura was clouded ...

I think I'll give a cleric a go to test out the sanctuary behaviour.

Modifié par Grond0, 04 juin 2013 - 05:43 .

[Gate70]

Necklace is a good idea, think it's a random item but will check it out. I'm not downbeat, just stating the fact that it's going to be a heck of a challenge on my part.

I don't like door-hopping anyway so that bug/quirk will just encourage me not to try it unless I have to. Try a Talos cleric, then run away from say Bjornin's ogres to get them in a straight line and then hit them with the innate bolt (also watch out for reflections).

I hear what you say about the kobolds but there were lots of them and not hitting very often. Got a screenie of it (and an earlier one where Tenya was a tad too close for comfort.

[Blind_Visionary]

I just noticed this rad challenge. Just to point out, Grond0, nowhere in the rules does it state "no reload." It seems obvious that that's the default for this crew, but if any other gluttons for punishment join in, they might as well know what they are getting into.

I'm extremely impressed that you succeeded with a solo character of any class. I'm still trying to no-reload basically this mod setup while playing with a party, and using beefy character stats. Item Randomiser introduces an element of... well, randomness. You never know where that item you'll need to succeed is. And SCS is punishing. Just look at that incredible kobold swarm above! I keep dying just when I think I've gotten the hang of how it works.

(About the kobold swarm, I recommend using cleric spells of fire resistance, or fire resistance potions, or any fire resistance items you may have found, followed by a boom boom potion, a la our resident strategist, Alesia. Kobolds tend to get crispy pretty fast.)

I'm tempted to join in, but still moving slowly through the regular no-reload challenge. I'll keep an eye on your progress though... I suspect getting all classes through will take a while.

What will you do with your characters that make it through? Do they go on to attempt BG2 in the same style?

Modifié par Blind_Visionary, 05 juin 2013 - 05:32 .

[Gate70]

Blind_Visionary wrote...
I just noticed this rad challenge. Just to point out, Grond0, nowhere in the rules does it state "no reload."

Good spot.

What will you do with your characters that make it through? Do they go on to attempt BG2 in the same style?

We sort of discussed this before starting, thinking it might take a few weeks(!) to get 40+ characters through. Berserker should be the easiest and given our experience so far it's fair to say we probably don't have to worry about that for a while!

Anyway, back to my Fortean berserker (number 4). He took a decent selection of equipment into Nashkel mine.


A single ring charge cleared half a dozen or so kobolds and although the berserker took hits more easily than the previous cleric (who benefitted from sword/shield style) the kobolds were less of a pain because the berserker cut through them 3-4 times quicker.

I've played the mines kobold component once or twice before with a party so knew there was a shaman after the spiders but couldn't remember the details. Another ring charge and some melee worked well to start with but injuries and poison were stacking up so he retreated into the spider alcove and used a wand of sleep charge before cleaning up.

I didn't realise Mulahey would activate immediately (as I entered I suspected this might happen), so wasn't berserked when he arrived. A bullet missed so I used a ring charge and attacked.


Then I berserked and he didn't last long. Nimbul was a bit tricky and although Fortean has killed him there was a chromatic orb cast between the spooks and magic missiles.

Edit: Tranzig was OKish but Lamahla and gang were stood outside the Feldepost inn. The fight continued inside and a victorious Fortean had to pay for damages. After killing Teven the search for a safe resting place was interrupted by Molkar. Fortean chose to flee and rest so is about to return. Edit2, & they're dead. Can see this being more of a challenge for a non berserker.

Modifié par Gate70, 05 juin 2013 - 07:03 .

[Alesia_BH]

Grond0 wrote...
Give the sleep wand a chance - it's almost custom-made to deal with kobolds.

 

Agreed. My NR challenge install isn't quite the same as the one you're using (I don't have the randomizer installed, for example) but it t is pretty similar. I find the Wand of Sleep very helpful in the Nashkel Mines: it can radically reduce incoming APR and, consequently, decrease the likelihood of encountering danger via a string of criticals.

Just be sure to remember that it won't work against the Shaman (his level is too high). 

corey_russell wrote...

If you recall Alesia's comment about that (being followed while invisible/sanctuaried), she says she uses fire resistance potion/necklace of missiles or potion of explosions to deal with that kind of problem.

I find that method helpful for dealing with convergence upon invisibility, summon prisons, and run-of-the-mill box ins.

The full sequence is usually Invisibility->Full Heal->Potion of Fire Resistance/Protection from Fire Resistance->Explosion. It has helped my characters out of a number of tricky sits.

As for the Sanctuary follow behavior, I primarily address that by limiting my use of it. If I need to pass though an entire area -in other words without ever having to break before proceeding to a new map region- I might use Sanctuary then. I'll also use it in the rare instances where I need temporary respite from attack but am nonetheless confident that I can get the spell off. On balance, I end up using Sanctuary far less than I might in vanilla.

Using the Sanctuary follow behavior to consolidate a number of foes spread throughout an area with the intent of maximizing casualties from, say, a Potion of Explosions could make sense of course.

Anyhoo. Have fun guys!

Best,

A. 

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 05 juin 2013 - 07:59 .

[Grond0]

My estimate of how long it will take to complete this isn't coming down! My Cleric of Talos just bit the dust against the pretty formidable obstacle of Slythe. A full complement of skeletons (with pfe, chant and bless) had a number of goes at him until I decided to join in the fun. A couple of lots of damage from a potion of fire breath did disappointly low damage (10 and 9), but still meant he had taken total damage of 86 HPs, which I had thought might have been enough - it wasn't ...

I had had a very narrow escape previously at the bandit camp when testing sanctuary. That had proved very useful, but on this occasion was definitely a liability when the enemies outside the main tent followed him in (turning those inside hostile as well). He was rapidly surrounded and couldn't move. Showing himself meant the archers started moving away to shoot though and he was able to make progress towards the door. At this point he has only 1 HP left and another arrow was in the air on its way to skewer him - but he was able to glug a potion just before it hit.

Pity he couldn't ultimately make the escape count for something.

[Grond0]

My third attempt at an assassin proved the charm as Secunda waltzed through to polish off Sarevok.  The combination of stealth with poison is a pretty potent one and she was never really in trouble in the game.  The only slightly close call was actually after I had killed Sarevok and went to High Hedge to buy the Claw of Kazgoroth - forgetting that the Amazon ambushers were waiting there.  Secunda took a backstab before running away, but only for 16 of her 31 HPs.  Like the earlier 2 assassins her HPs ended up rather below the average (37.5).  I thought that was not going to be the case when she had some decent rolls early on, but her last 4 levels yielded a total of only 5 HPs to drag her back down!

The only encounter where I thought there was a realistic chance of being killed - without making a mistake - was Slythe.  However, Secunda's opening backstab hit for a critical and she immediately hid again.  With the poison damage added to the initial backstab I thought it would be possible to finish Slythe off even if the second backstab missed - but it didn't.

Sarevok stood no chance.  Arrows of explosion killed his support troops (with a few arrows of dispelling for him and Angelo), while backstabs finished off the skeleton warriors and Sarevok himself.

My berserker ended with 468 kills.  The much lower figure for Secunda partly reflects a decision to cut down slightly on the number of encounters, but is mainly the result of her stealthing past annoying groups of enemies (like all the kobolds in the Nashkel mines).

[Grond0]

Two more failures with a Cleric of Talos. 

First was stupid when I attacked Montaron immediately after Candlekeep, but forgot until it was too late to run that he would hide in shadows and backstab ...

Second was very unfair.  Attacking Tarnesh, he was already injured when he started using a scroll.  Tertio pre-empted that (I thought) with a command that put Tarnesh down and a sling bullet got him to near death and running scared.  However, despite the command and morale failure Tarnesh still finished reading his scroll and slept Tertio.  He then unfortunately kept running round in the same area until he regained his senses and came in for the kill ...

I'll try and be more careful next time!

Modifié par Grond0, 07 juin 2013 - 12:33 .

[Gate70]

Good progress though. Here's my lack of progress, including a couple of assassins who failed to get out of Candlekeep.

4 berserkers (furthest got to Kysus).
1 monk, 1 undead hunter, 2 clerics of Talos as covered earlier.
5 assassins (1 self destruct trying to snare Carbos with 0% in snares, 1 double-tapped by Carbos).

Assassin 6 was ticking merrily along and even predicted an ambush by Morvin or Lamahla after disposing of Tranzig. The Amazons arrived first and Fortean-Assassin-6 drew them into the Jovial Juggler. Some shadowy action saw her realise that the Amazons became invulnerable whenever she hid so Officer Vai and her mercenaries wouldn't have a fair fight. Leaving and returning saw the Amazons fight back some times and ignore the mercenaries other times so it felt very contrived.

F-A-6 added some hit and run backstabs but her lack of levels and strength of 14 meant she couldn't one-shot them so had to use the stairs and doors to return for seconds.

At this point the Amazons decided to heal themselves between backstabs without potions or spells and it took many attempts before one of them (Maneira) chunked. F-A-6 took a backstab for 30 of her 31hp during this session so took advantage of the Beregost temple healing and returned.

About 10 minutes later another Amazon was chunked, either Telka or Zeela - I wasn't paying attention as I was trying to get the transition-hide-transition-backstab routine in before the repeated miraculous healing took place. A few minutes later Telka was backstabbed so must have been Zeela earlier and now only Lamahla left.

While searching for the now-healed Lamahla F-A-6 finds Telka. A few moves later she is chunked, but a few moments later the search turns up another Telka and a Zeela. Dispose of Telka but there is another one after that (they seem to arrive on the next area transition after one is killed). Zeela is killed again then F-A-6 is held (not by Lamahla mind) and killed.

I was enjoying the run until they turned up.

[Grond0]

I know well the temptation to try and kill them immediately, but sometimes it makes sense just to leave them, or come back later when you're better equipped / prepared.

Edit: and despite my earlier expressed intentions of being careful I just attacked Poe entirely unnecessarily and got slept for my trouble!

Modifié par Grond0, 07 juin 2013 - 05:43 .

[Gate70]

Berserker 5 is on hold at level 5 with rolls of 1, 3, 4, 1 for 19hp. Has taken a few hours at 60fps and he's still likely to be one-shotted unless his luck turns.

Assassin 7 has killed Mulahey. Nimbul and Tranzig were both standing on snares, while Lamahla's gang were softened up by 4 snares outside Feldepost's and 2 outside Firebeads. I'd only just finished laying 3 / 3 in the same locations and a pair inside the inn when Morvin turned up. Despite all those snares Nimbul, Halacan and Morvin were the only three to die without the help of poisoned backstabs.

Hiding and snaring have reached adequate levels so he's switching to find traps.
The Revenant will have to wait for his dagger to be returned.


Edit, & another assassin falls, held in a spider ambush between the bandit camp and the Friendly Arm Inn. He had no suitable counter but was held on arrival so not sure even auto-pause would help. Given the considerable number of journeys I expect to make to the bandit camp there aren't enough potions of invisibility, so that means Dushai's ring (not randomised by the looks of it) might need to figure in every assassin run.

Edit2 after a few tests. Auto-pause sometimes helps. It doesn't always help as sometimes spiders arrive after wyverns so unless a protection was used on the off-chance it would still require a save against spells.

Modifié par Gate70, 08 juin 2013 - 09:58 .

[Grond0]

I've been doing other things recently, but thought I would have a 5th attempt to get a cleric of Talos through.  My HPs for all characters in this challenge have been poor, but even by those low standards Tertio stood out.  At 6th level he had got rolls of 1, 1, 1, 2 and 1 for a total of 14 HPs.  That nearly caused his downfall in the only nasty moment to date when Oopah got up from a command quicker than I expected and took him down to 2 HPs.

Since then he has got his final 2 levels with rolls of 5 and 1 and also found the constitution tome to get 8 bonus HPs so is now on a rather more comfortable 28 HPs.  That tome was in its normal location in the pirate cave, along with a wisdom tome as well (buffed skeletons dealt with the sirenes and golems to get it).  He's been lucky with the tomes in that he's also found the charisma tome and strength tome.  The latter was in the hidey hole on the roof of Durlag's Tower - there was an interesting combination of sanctuary and resting to get up there in the first place in order to allow the skeletons to do their thing.

Although Tertio's been lucky with the tomes he hasn't found anything else likely to be any help to him (though he shouldn't need any help anyway).  He has just arrived at the Nashkel mine with a view to making rapid progress on the main quest from here.

Edit: completed the mine, Nimbul and Tranzig (who had the nice bonus of boots of speed).

Modifié par Grond0, 13 juin 2013 - 05:50 .

[corey_russell]

Interesting write-ups guys. Almost sounds like you guys are disproving your theory - maybe stats DO matter, as least as far as CON goes.

[Grond0]

Regrettably Tertio failed at the final hurdle when I took him to face Sarevok & co with limited resources and wasn't patient enough. After killing Semaj with a few potions of explosion I started a long-range missile duel with Diarmid. That was probably the right thing to do, but with limited supplies of missiles I was conscious of the need to find alternative means of killing some of the opposition. To help with this I tried to get Angelo to use an area effect damage spell on Tertio (who would then have used an invisibility potion to leave Angelo to face the music). He failed to oblige though leaving Tertio running round being attacked by others. Most were not a problem, but Diarmid eventually got lucky with his mixture of magic arrows, hitting several times in quick succession to overwhelm Tertio's limited HPs.