416 réponses à ce sujet

[David7204]

You can get rid of the meter, but that's not really going to change anything. If choices are the same as they are in the current trilogy, it's still going to be fairly obvious what the 'good' and 'bad' options are.

[AlanC9]

DeinonSlayer wrote...


Going back to Dragon Age: Origins, there was no karma meter. No Paragon/Renegade. Players had to inspect their options and decide for themselves what was right or wrong in accordance with their own conscience. A Persuasion check could in one circumstance save a life; and in another, convince a dwarven mother to abandon her baby in the Deep Roads, so players couldn't reflexively click those, either.

In practice haven't the nice choices always been at the top of the list in Bio games? With the infamous exception of the big choice at the Temple Mount in KotOR.

Modifié par AlanC9, 03 juin 2013 - 04:31 .

[Khelish]

David7204 wrote...

You can get rid of the meter, but that's not really going to change anything. If choices are the same as they are in the current trilogy, it's still going to be fairly obvious what the 'good' and 'bad' options are.

Going Kotor style will remove the sheep that mindlessly click "UPPER RIGHT ZOMG ITS PARAGON SO THAT MEANS ITS THE RIGHT THING TO DO!1!!!1!!"

[David7204]

You know what, that is really just a ridiculous complaint.

You're free to play the game however you want. Why the hell do you care if some players always pick the upper left option?

Modifié par David7204, 03 juin 2013 - 04:33 .

[AresKeith]

David7204 wrote...

You know what, that is really just a ridiculous complaint.

You're free to play the game however you want. Why the hell do you care if players always pick the upper left option?

Maybe you should read through the thread again to find out, but you obviously wouldn't agree with it anyway

[David7204]

I certainly disagree with the idea that players at somehow at fault for wanting to play as a 'good' character and for trusting the developers' idea of 'good.'

In fact, that sounds to me like a great compliment. That the game is written well enough that players can pick the 'good' option and trust that the developers' sense of ethics will be in tune with their own.

Modifié par David7204, 03 juin 2013 - 04:38 .

[Khelish]

David7204 wrote...

You know what, that is really just a ridiculous complaint.

You're free to play the game however you want. Why the hell do you care if some players always pick the upper left option?

How many times have people come on the forums and used the classic "It's paragon, therefor, it is the right thing to do."?

Way too many times.

[DeinonSlayer]

AlanC9 wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...


Going back to Dragon Age: Origins, there was no karma meter. No Paragon/Renegade. Players had to inspect their options and decide for themselves what was right or wrong in accordance with their own conscience. A Persuasion check could in one circumstance save a life; and in another, convince a dwarven mother to abandon her baby in the Deep Roads, so players couldn't reflexively click those, either.

In practice haven't the nice choices always been at the top of the list in Bio games? With the infamous exception of the big choice at the Temple Mount in KotOR.

Not in Origins. At least it didn't seem that way to me. Point is, there was no karma meter staring over my shoulder. I don't think you'll find nearly as many (if any) people who play DA:O by clicking the first option in the list every time, whatever that might happen to be. Mass Effect, though? I'm hard-pressed to find a YouTube playthrough that didn't.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 03 juin 2013 - 04:42 .

[David7204]

I haven't seen that once, and I've been here for over a year. In any case, how in the hell is that the slightest bit relevant?

[HiddenInWar]

Maybe they COULD try a morality system, but they should at least keep the symbols.

[Seboist]

Getting rid of Paragon and Renegade doesn't do anything when there's no real difference between the choices like we've seen with ME1-3.

[Wolfva2]

AresKeith wrote...

David7204 wrote...

You know what, that is really just a ridiculous complaint.

You're free to play the game however you want. Why the hell do you care if players always pick the upper left option?

Maybe you should read through the thread again to find out, but you obviously wouldn't agree with it anyway

I read through the thread, and I think your 'rebuttal' is uncalled for.  David's right; why SHOULD anyone here care about how other people play the game?  "OH NOES!  Some person I'll never meet or know blindly clicks the paragon icon!  The world is ENDIIIIINGGGGG!  AIEEEEEEE! "  If someone else wants to play a game without putting ANY thinking into it, then that is THEIR right.  YOU didn't pay for their game.  It doesn't effect YOUR game one whit. 

Having said that, and having read all the responces, many of which were MUCH more erudite then Keith's, I'm in agreement with Massive and some others.  I'd like deeper, more in depth decision making, without obvious 'good' or 'bad' decisions.  As DA:O pointed out, sometimes making 'good' decisions leads to less then good results.  One thing I've noticed with BW games is, as time goes by, their morality system does seem to get more intracate.  That's a good thing, methinks.

Someone said some of the renegade choices weren't 'evil'.  I'd say none of them were.  Paragon and Renegade don't mean Good and Bad for this game.  They mean 'Idealist' and 'Cynical'.  When all is said and done, Shepard is the BEST that humanity has to provide.  Which is why you can't play him as a drug addled slaving pirate (except in your head, anyways).  Because Shep would never do that.  We may make some decisions on how he reacts, but his basic character is beyond reproach, and beyond our control.  He's a good guy.  Could be a major jerk, but still...a good guy jerk.

Modifié par Wolfva2, 03 juin 2013 - 05:05 .

[ShepnTali]

I'd like to see something else, with some way to mix in surprises with each playthrough. More gambles of sorts. It's too easy to do everything right after the initial playthrough, and not very fun to intentionally make a bad choice for added drama. Maybe some sort of optional system.

[David7204]

The fact that good choices sometimes lead to bad outcomes in real life is irrelevant. The Theory of Narrative Causality trumps that.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

The fact that good choices sometimes lead to bad outcomes in real life is irrelevant. The Theory of Narrative Causality trumps that.

Go play the Witcher 2.

I'll wait, just to see you get butthurt.

[David7204]

You know, there's a reason why there's been an overwhelming outpouring of support and affection for Shepard since the endings. More than any game character in existence, I would say. Whereas players probably wouldn't care much at all if the protagonist of the Witcher died, would they?

Modifié par David7204, 03 juin 2013 - 04:53 .

[Khelish]

"Oh noes, I need mah paragon wheelz, I don't know how to has make choice. Me good paragon, u bad meany head poopy renegade. Me good."

A bit of Auld's binary thinking for this thread. 

[David7204]

Khelish wrote...

"Oh noes, I need mah paragon wheelz, I don't know how to has make choice. Me good paragon, u bad meany head poopy renegade. Me good."

A bit of Auld's binary thinking for this thread. 

This is just ridiculous and childish. Do you have any actual reasoning or evidence instead of this nonsense?

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

You know, there's a reason why there's been an overwhelming outpouring of support and affection for Shepard since the endings. More than any game character in existence, I would say. Whereas players probably wouldn't care much at all if the protagonist of the Witcher died, would they?

Since you said that, I'm assuming you've never played the Witcher, or really understand anything about other gamers at all. 

Go home, David.

[Khelish]

David7204 wrote...

This is just ridiculous and childish. Do you have any actual reasoning or evidence instead of this nonsense?

Answer me this: Why do you need the dialogue wheel to tell you right from wrong? (Which is how people look at it)

Renegade is not inherently evil, and Paragon is not inherently good, though far too many people ignore this. They don't think about the choices. Or my favorite... nonexistent bad outcomes from playing a "goodeh guyz".

[David7204]

Do you really not realize the contradiction in your posts?

I certainly do.

Here's what I notice. You snivel (using your ridiculous little terms like "goodeh guyz") at the game 'deciding' good and evil for you...and then you demand exactly that!

You're perfectly free to consider the krogan being dead as the 'best' outcome, for instance. Nobody's stopping you. But you can't, can you? Or else you wouldn't be complaining about this. You need the game to tell you what's right. You're dependent on it.

Why don't we cut this nonsense, hmm?

Modifié par David7204, 03 juin 2013 - 05:08 .

[Khelish]

David7204 wrote...

 You need the game to tell you what's right. You're dependent on it.

No.

I want BioWare to stop making Paragon and Renegade look like this:

[Only-Twin]

I say no good or bad, just choices and consequences. But I would like to see some sort of reputation system where people react to your character based on their decisions, not just huge things like saving the council. If you act like a jerk, people will be wary of that.

[David7204]

Khelish wrote...

I want BioWare to stop making Paragon and Renegade look like this:

Why?

Modifié par David7204, 03 juin 2013 - 05:09 .

[Wolfva2]

David7204 wrote...

The fact that good choices sometimes lead to bad outcomes in real life is irrelevant. The Theory of Narrative Causality trumps that.

It's irrelevant to YOU.  However, for those of us who enjoy playing games with a strong nod toward 'realism', it's important.   Feel free to pull your head out of your arse long enough to realize that everyone has different likes and dislikes, and YOUR opinion only applies to YOU.  Just sayin, is all.