416 réponses à ce sujet

[David7204]

It's not 'realism,' and it's not an opinion. The Theory of Narrative Causality is a fundamental relationship of cause and effect in stories.

Modifié par David7204, 03 juin 2013 - 05:11 .

[Khelish]

David7204 wrote...

Khelish wrote...

I want BioWare to stop making Paragon and Renegade look like this:

Why?

Same reason I dislike "Action Mode".

[David7204]

And what reason is that?

[Only-Twin]

Also, the blue and red dialogue choices were pretty cheap. Every time you see one it's pretty much saying "Congratulations! You have built up enough paragon to get the easy way out."

That should definitely be gone.

[David7204]

Only-Twin wrote...

Also, the blue and red dialogue choices were pretty cheap. Every time you see one it's pretty much saying "Congratulations! You have built up enough paragon to get the easy way out."

That should definitely be gone.

'Easy way out'?

Modifié par David7204, 03 juin 2013 - 05:11 .

[AresKeith]

Only-Twin wrote...

I say no good or bad, just choices and consequences. But I would like to see some sort of reputation system where people react to your character based on their decisions, not just huge things like saving the council. If you act like a jerk, people will be wary of that.

Like how Dragon Age did it?

[Khelish]

David7204 wrote...

And what reason is that?

If you play Mass Effect without deciding stuff on your own, you are doing it wrong.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

Do you really not realize the laughable contradiction in your posts?

I certainly do.

Here's what I notice. You snivel (using your ridiculous little terms like "goodeh guyz") at the game 'deciding' good and evil for you...and then you demand exactly that!

You're perfectly free to consider the krogan being dead as the 'best' outcome, for instance. Nobody's stopping you. But you can't, can you? Or else you wouldn't be complaining about this. You need the game to tell you what's right. You're dependent on it.

I don't. In fact, we want less obvious, less certain outcomes for decisions.

I for one think it's very naive that every good decision has to be a morally right one. Or that every paragon action has to have a positive outcome. The game isn't like that, but that's what you're advocating. I don't want that. A lot of people don't want that. They want the morally ambiguous grey area where the player is constantly questioning himself or herself. 

The game tells me synthesis is right. I pick destroy.

The game tells me curing the genophage is the right thing to do. I don't think it is, and wouldn't do it if I didn't want the Krogan as fodder against the Reapers.

The game tells me that Cerberus is bad. I think they're good.

The game tells me that Liara is my friend. I think she's an annoying blue squid thing (no offense to any non-David Liara fans) that needs to leave me the **** alone.

The game tells me that the Reapers are ultimately good. I think they're terrible.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 03 juin 2013 - 05:14 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

It's not 'realism,' and it's not an opinion. The Theory of Narrative Causality is a fundamental relationship of cause and effect in stories.

It's a theory. It's in the title. It's not fact. It's not a law. A theory. An opinion.

[Only-Twin]

David7204 wrote...

Only-Twin wrote...

Also, the blue and red dialogue choices were pretty cheap. Every time you see one it's pretty much saying "Congratulations! You have built up enough paragon to get the easy way out."

That should definitely be gone.

'Easy way out'?

As in most of those dialogue options give you the best outcome, and you know it because it's in bright blue. Talking down Saren, making peace on Rannoch, etc.

[David7204]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

David7204 wrote...

It's not 'realism,' and it's not an opinion. The Theory of Narrative Causality is a fundamental relationship of cause and effect in stories.

It's a theory. It's in the title. It's not fact. It's not a law. A theory. An opinion.

You sound like a creationist complaing about the Theory of Evolution. Maybe you should look those arguments up, because you'll find no end of scientists who will argue truthfully that theories do not work that way. Like the Theory of Gravity, for instance. Or maybe you think gravity is an opinion?

Modifié par David7204, 03 juin 2013 - 05:19 .

[David7204]

Only-Twin wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Only-Twin wrote...

Also, the blue and red dialogue choices were pretty cheap. Every time you see one it's pretty much saying "Congratulations! You have built up enough paragon to get the easy way out."

That should definitely be gone.

'Easy way out'?

As in most of those dialogue options give you the best outcome, and you know it because it's in bright blue. Talking down Saren, making peace on Rannoch, etc.

And why is that a problem?

[Khelish]

David, you never answered me.

"Answer me this: Why do you need the dialogue wheel to tell you right from wrong?"

Or are you incapable of deciding it all on your own?

[Only-Twin]

AresKeith wrote...

Only-Twin wrote...

I say no good or bad, just choices and consequences. But I would like to see some sort of reputation system where people react to your character based on their decisions, not just huge things like saving the council. If you act like a jerk, people will be wary of that.

Like how Dragon Age did it?

I haven't played it, but I suppose so. I guess I'm thinking of some kind of karma system, but not at all like Fallout. 

[ShepnTali]

Only-Twin wrote...

I say no good or bad, just choices and consequences. But I would like to see some sort of reputation system where people react to your character based on their decisions, not just huge things like saving the council. If you act like a jerk, people will be wary of that.

Agreed here. Understanding it would be more work, I'd still like to see this.

Only-Twin wrote...
Also, the blue and red dialogue choices were pretty cheap. Every time you see one it's pretty much saying "Congratulations! You have built up enough paragon to get the easy way out." 

That should definitely be gone.

And here, in a way. If they could make it an optional playstyle, then everyone can more or less be happy.

[Only-Twin]

David7204 wrote...

Only-Twin wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Only-Twin wrote...

Also, the blue and red dialogue choices were pretty cheap. Every time you see one it's pretty much saying "Congratulations! You have built up enough paragon to get the easy way out."

That should definitely be gone.

'Easy way out'?

As in most of those dialogue options give you the best outcome, and you know it because it's in bright blue. Talking down Saren, making peace on Rannoch, etc.

And why is that a problem?

Because you don't have to think about it, you just click on the blue text and get the best outcome. 

[The Heretic of Time]

David7204 wrote...

You know, there's a reason why there's been an overwhelming outpouring of support and affection for Shepard since the endings. More than any game character in existence, I would say. Whereas players probably wouldn't care much at all if the protagonist of the Witcher died, would they?

LMAO you're so incredibly ignorant and deluded.


Geralt of Rivia (I doubt you know who he is, so I'll help you out, he's the protagonist of the Witcher) already was infinitely more popular and infinitely more liked before Mass Effect came even out.


Geralt did die once, in the books, before the games were even made, and people cared.


Also, Shepard is not even a real character. Shepard is whoever you want him to be (either male or female, paragon, renegade or mixed, a soldier, biotic or engineer, etc.). When people like Shepard, they really just like THEIR OWN Shepard, not yours, not the default, any other player's Shepard, just their own.

Geralt on the other hand is a pre-established character already fleshed out by the books and people love him.

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 03 juin 2013 - 05:25 .

[David7204]

Only-Twin wrote...

Because you don't have to think about it, you just click on the blue text and get the best outcome. 

This is a video game.

Not an examination.
Not a chore.
Not work.

A game. Entertainment.

The best outcome should always be easily availible to a reasonably intelligent player and through player.

Modifié par David7204, 03 juin 2013 - 05:26 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

David7204 wrote...

It's not 'realism,' and it's not an opinion. The Theory of Narrative Causality is a fundamental relationship of cause and effect in stories.

It's a theory. It's in the title. It's not fact. It's not a law. A theory. An opinion.

You sound like a creationist complaing about the Theory of Evolution. Maybe you should look those arguments up, because you'll find no end of scientists who will argue truthfully that theories do not work that way. Like the Theory of Gravity, for instance. Or maybe you think gravity is an opinion?

No, maybe you should look up a theory David. Or how there are more definitions for different contexts.

There is no disputing gravity. We know it exists. The reason it's a theory is because we don't know how, or why it exists. We can't explain it. To this day, gravity is a mystery. Or evolution. It can be observed. It can be traced. It can be marked. But the mechanisms behind it aren't entirely known or understood. 

You're arguing something from a completely different context.

A narrative theory is hardly comparable to a physical or scientific one. Considering a narrative theory really is just an opinion for a design or style for writing. A convention. For someone who's so proud of his background in science, I'd have thought you'd know that.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 03 juin 2013 - 05:28 .

[The Heretic of Time]

David7204 wrote...

Only-Twin wrote...

Because you don't have to think about it, you just click on the blue text and get the best outcome. 

This is a video game.

Not an examination.
Not a chore.
Not work.

A game. Entertainment.

The best outcome should always be easily availible to a reasonably intelligent player and through player.

Except BioWare made it so that even a retarded monkey can find the best outcome.


Also, I doubt you even know what a game is supposed to be. A game is supposed to be challenging. What's the challenge in clicking the big blue "CLICK HERE FOR AUTO-WIN" option that automatically present you with the best outcome?


Mass Effect does not stimulate you to think like an intelligent human being, instead it treats you like a dumb retard who can't figure out the best choice when it isn't presented on a silver platter in a blue text-block on the upper left corner of the dialogue wheel.

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 03 juin 2013 - 05:31 .

[Only-Twin]

Heavy Rain comes to mind. There was no blue text in that game.

It all depends on what you want from a game. I like surprises I guess. 

Modifié par Only-Twin, 03 juin 2013 - 05:29 .

[Khelish]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Except BioWare made it so that even a monkey can find the best outcome.


Also, I doubt you even know what a game is supposed to be. A game is supposed to be challenging. What's the challenge in clicking the big blue "CLICK HERE FOR AUTO-WIN" option that automatically present you with the best outcome?

But I don't want to think with meh brain when I play goodeh guyz saves teh day. 

[David7204]

What's going on here is a fallacy that the player can somehow 'earn' heroism. 'Earn' good outcomes. Discard that mindset, because it's nonsense. All the player can possibly do is sit on the couch and press buttons. The player can never 'earn' heroism.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

Only-Twin wrote...

Because you don't have to think about it, you just click on the blue text and get the best outcome. 

This is a video game.

Not an examination.
Not a chore.
Not work.

A game. Entertainment.

The best outcome should always be easily availible to a reasonably intelligent player and through player.

No it shouldn't. A good game should entertain, you nailed it. No one is disputing that.

Past that, there really is no should. You're just trying to objectively justify why you think that you're right. 

Beating the stick again.

[David7204]

Could a developer end the story with a ridiculously difficult and frustrating combat encounter and only award a 'perfect' ending to players who beat it? Absolutely.

Could a developer ask players to solve complex calculus equations and give better outcomes for right answers, on the grounds that smart players (and thus protagonists) deserve better results? Sure they could.

Could a developer give the player an incredibly tedious puzzle or task to complete and reward them for slogging through it? Easily.

And look what's happened. The core of the experience has collapsed. What was supposed to be a game is now a chore. What was supposed to be entertainment is now a headache. Are you going to walk away from that experience with a dropped jaw and a rush of excitement, eager for more? No. You'll walk away glad to have it over and done with. And indeed many games have done such things, and been worse for it.