266 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

Steelcan wrote...
Its not really much different in terms of missions between the two variations, but you are right, I'd probably cut out a lot of DLC and extend the development time.  This makes Leviathan and Omega unnecessary, probably Citadel as well.

OK, so now you're losing the DLC revenue and spending more money on the main game. You do realize that you're making the problem chemiclord pointed out worse rather than better, right?

Modifié par AlanC9, 03 juin 2013 - 11:47 .

[Steelcan]

AlanC9 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...
Its not really much different in terms of missions between the two variations, but you are right, I'd probably cut out a lot of DLC and extend the development time.  This makes Leviathan and Omega unnecessary, probably Citadel as well.

OK, so niw you're losing the DLC revenue and spending more money on the main game. You do realize that you're making the problem chemiclord pointed out worse rather than better, right?

Raise the price of the game then, and make more smaller DLC's instead of the big ones like Omega and Citadel.

[chemiclord]

Steelcan wrote...Raise the price of the game then, and make more smaller DLC's instead of the big ones like Omega and Citadel.

Problem with this is that gamers near to a man have resisted with significant disapproval ANY attempts to raise the cover price of games.  Even the slightest increase in the upfront cost over the last 10-15 years has been met with complaints, grousing, internet protests, etc.

Raise the cover price of ME3 and you pretty much have doomed ANY hopes of it meeting the sales figures you need to warrant the investment.

And that's kinda the greater point... and it's one that extends beyond Mass Effect or EA.  Gamers are increasingly wanting the impossible (we want more, more, more; better graphics, better sound, more options, bigger worlds, bigger stories, big names and blockbusters... but there will be hell on Earth if you expect us to pay one red cent more for it) and are getting increasingly angry and bitter when they don't get it.

On top of that... players here were already griping that the DLC cost too much for the content you got.  You actually think giving them LESS at that price will somehow make them LESS irritated?  Because selling less content for less doesn't actually solve the problem.

Modifié par chemiclord, 04 juin 2013 - 01:43 .

[Mcfly616]

TheProtheans wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

wouldn't be too hard....Just have to re-write ME2 first.

I'd go as far back and say even ME1.

If I was going to re-write any part of ME3, I'd say you'd at least need to start with ME2.

We're on a budget.
There is no point going back to change minor things, go straight to the root of the problem and make Mass effect 3 deserving of the name.
Dump Arrival.

I wouldn't change anything "minor". It is my opinion that ME2 is the major problem to the overall narrative of the trilogy. Therefore I would have to re-write the entire second installment before even thinking about 3

[Only-Twin]

frostajulie wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Just rewrite the whole trilogy. Why not, right?

Actually I wouldn't mind this rewrite the entire trilogy ME the Next generation, reboot the universe make the story different like the way TV reboots series such as Nikita and Battlestar Galatica.

Only this time map out the entire trilogy, stay true to the lore, Know your ****, none of this making it up as you go along bull crap. *No artistic ending* this means while we can have several suicide options a happy ending and a US happy ending must be included because people like to win  video games.

And if the central theme is going to be synthestics vs organics then that needs to be the central theme throughout the dominant theme.  It NEVER was in the original trilogy.

Id be down for that.

Yeah it's pretty apparent that Bioware didn't plan ahead. That and the fact that they lost a lot of their original crew. 
I can understand them not planning the whole trilogy before making the first game, but once they decided to make it a trilogy, they should have sat down to write out the whole story before doing anything else. 

Modifié par Only-Twin, 04 juin 2013 - 12:45 .

[INH56]

Only-Twin wrote...

frostajulie wrote...
Actually I wouldn't mind this rewrite the entire trilogy ME the Next generation, reboot the universe make the story different like the way TV reboots series such as Nikita and Battlestar Galatica.

Only this time map out the entire trilogy, stay true to the lore, Know your ****, none of this making it up as you go along bull crap. *No artistic ending* this means while we can have several suicide options a happy ending and a US happy ending must be included because people like to win  video games.

And if the central theme is going to be synthestics vs organics then that needs to be the central theme throughout the dominant theme.  It NEVER was in the original trilogy.

Id be down for that.

Yeah it's pretty apparent that Bioware didn't plan ahead. That and the fact that they lost a lot of their original crew. 
I can understand them not planning the whole trilogy before making the first game, but once they decided to make it a trilogy, they should have sat down to write out the whole story before doing anything else. 

Detailed long term plans can help if everything you write down turns out to be good and feasible when it is put into production years later. It also requires that no major changes or hiccups in production happen like, say, key members of the development team leaving, major gameplay changes, technical issues, something requiring more money than expected and necessitating budget cuts elsewhere, or import story segments being entirely cut.

So, basically, it can help if the work is part of a simple, low tech medium where not many things can go wrong (books or comics) or if the production lead has a crystal ball. Otherwise they'll likely end up doing something different than what they had planned. Which kind of defeats the purpose.

Case in point: Babylon 5 is often talked about as an example of long term planning done right. J. Michael Straczynski actually did sit down and write a detailed outline for all 5 seasons of the show before he even started writing the pilot. But in reality, things didn't quite work out the way they were supposed to. He stuck by the plan at first, but things happened. The lead actor left, several supporting actors left, the spinoff plans were abandoned, he lost a bunch of notes in a hotel room, the show was canceled, then uncanceled... As a result, the story ended up diverging pretty widely from what was originally planned. If you look at JMS's orignal outline, the last 2 seasons and especially the ending are very different from what actually aired. (see here for details; also Babylon 5 spoilers).

For a closer example, there's the infamous dark energy plot. It's not very clear who came up with this or when, but during a late part of the production of ME2, the writers had a pretty detailed plan for how the series was going to end, and planned for things like Haestrom and the human Reaper to tie into that. Sources have also referred to the dark energy plot as "the original idea for Mass Effect 3," so it seems likely that it remained the plan into at least the pre-production of ME3. Which may partially explain where the sudden focus on Earth came from. Then that plan was abandoned at some point (for good reason, I think), so all Bioware got out of planning ahead was some foreshadowing that went nowhere.

Also, on the subject of organics and synthetics, it's clear that it actually was decided early on that Mass Effect was going to be about synthetic vs. organic conflict, or at least the dangers of AI. Obviously, things didn't turn out like they originally intended. Too bad the people that wrote the ending didn't remember how much things had changed.

I think the real problem wasn't a lack of planning so much as a lack of a proper framework for the series. The pilot episode of a television series establishes the protagonist, the antagonist, and the central conflict. ME1 left the series with a protagonist, but no antagonist (all of the named bad guys were dead at the end), and a vague central conflict without any clear goal or significant remaining plot points. If Bioware really did want to make a trilogy with a single overarching story from the beginning (I'm not convinced that this was the case, but that's another issue), then they didn't do a good job setting it up.

Modifié par INH56, 04 juin 2013 - 05:06 .

[WhiteKnyght]

Well first thing, I would have kept the Dark Energy problem. It adds a sense of urgency to the war. They need to end it quickly to find a way to save everyone.

Secondly, the Reapers hit softer than I expected in ME3(which is saying something considering the Reapers hit pretty freakin hard). So I would make them come down like the wrath of God. Entire worlds completely destroyed/harvested within days(as opposed to weeks and moths like we got) and have the entire game play out in the course of a few weeks.

I'd also have the Reapers aggressively pursuing Shepard and the Normandy throughout the game. With quite a few close calls.

I also would have picked a different origin for the Reapers(not that Leviathan wasn't interesting) and explained the Catalyst as a group-mind of all the Reapers, rather than just an AI giving orders to them.

As for how choices relate to the final mission. I think Bioware did it right with how your choices shape the future during the epilogue in extended cut, rather than put a million variables in the final mission. So finishing the story would be priority before anything.

As for Kai Leng, the problem there is that you have to have read the novels to get a sense of the character. ME3 itself gave very little opportunity to flesh him out.the way the novels did.(Before you critics start throwing stones, remember that Kai Leng actually got more character development than Saren did). I'd also put him in Omega and let Aria smack him around for killing her daughter.

[Steelcan]

chemiclord wrote...

Steelcan wrote...Raise the price of the game then, and make more smaller DLC's instead of the big ones like Omega and Citadel.

Problem with this is that gamers near to a man have resisted with significant disapproval ANY attempts to raise the cover price of games.  Even the slightest increase in the upfront cost over the last 10-15 years has been met with complaints, grousing, internet protests, etc.

Raise the cover price of ME3 and you pretty much have doomed ANY hopes of it meeting the sales figures you need to warrant the investment.

And that's kinda the greater point... and it's one that extends beyond Mass Effect or EA.  Gamers are increasingly wanting the impossible (we want more, more, more; better graphics, better sound, more options, bigger worlds, bigger stories, big names and blockbusters... but there will be hell on Earth if you expect us to pay one red cent more for it) and are getting increasingly angry and bitter when they don't get it.

On top of that... players here were already griping that the DLC cost too much for the content you got.  You actually think giving them LESS at that price will somehow make them LESS irritated?  Because selling less content for less doesn't actually solve the problem.

Lets just settle for, this is my version of ME3 in a perfect world?

[teh DRUMPf!!]

AlanC9 wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

-- ME3 is to be a 3 CD game. Disc three is devoted entirely to the final mission (Priority: Earth). If the price of the total game must be divvied up to $90 or so, so be it. It'll be justified for being an epic game. Announce the plans for the additional CD and the higher resulting price early in the pre-release stage so people can are ready for it.

It's a gutsy strategy. Not only do you have to keep the bulk of the existing fans on board with that price point, you also have to sell a $90 game to people who aren't invested in the series.

How much did CE sell for, $80?

Whatever it was, that will become the price of the main set, and then CE will cost a little more as well.

Dunno. I'm not a business/econ guy. No clue how the video-game industry works, either, just thinking out loud with these posts. I mean, ME3 produced record sales though, so I don't think a price bump would kill it. Hell, it might even generate more buzz. Again, make it known early. Better pre-release marketing would help, too. It was pretty lousy.

Modifié par HYR 2.0, 04 juin 2013 - 03:57 .

[SmartAlec2001]

There wouldn't be much, but it would change a lot.

The basic idea is: the Crucible device is built by Cerberus, not the Alliance.

The Crucible is, I think, kind of like a stone around the neck of the plot of ME3. It's a huge investment of resources, personnel and time, and no-one knows what it actually does. It's just a hope that somehow, it'll stop the Reapers.

This seems odd. In order to make the Crucible seem like a viable choice, ME3 has to show us a galaxy that's completely without hope. The Council races are still impotent and unprepared. The Crucible is an act of desperation, almost despair, as much as it is a hope. But the thing about the Crucible is - I don't think ME3's story needed it. All you need is to tweak things a little to make ME3 slightly less bleak.

***

Let's begin. Earth is invaded as before. The Normandy escapes, but instead of Hackett sending Shepard to aid Liara in uncovering plans to a super-weapon, he simply asks them to answer a distress call on Mars. Events unfold as normal, with Cerberus having attacked the facility, but when the AI Eva Core escapes, she downloads the data from the Prothean data cache and wipes it rather than leaves it intact. Chasing Eva down is a matter of stopping a dangerous opponent - but the Illusive Man has the data. It's a mystery as to why he wanted it.

The Mars archive was the source of humanity's FTL technology. It's fair to say that humanity would've totally mined the heck out of that archive, looking for ideas and info. Having the plans for a superweapon buried there somewhere undiscovered seems odd, and in order to make it feasible, ME3's story involves a second Prothean archive buried deeper than the first that had gone undiscovered until then.

From this point on, Cerberus are the ones constructing the 'Crucible', using their own understanding of alien, Prothean and Reaper science - not any specific plans buried somewhere. Its intention is to control the Reapers, as before.

***

Most of the story continues almost unchanged. Earth is holding, but the picture is less bleak than in normal ME3 - there's still organised resistance across the planet, Earth has prepared for this, but it's still a hard fight. Shepard still tries to get the Turians to help, still has to get the Krogan to help break the Reaper hold on Palaven, and you still have to get the Geth, Quarians or both on your side.

The main difference is that there's no mention of the Crucible. Every success you make is simply about gathering allies for the big showdown on Earth. Hackett doesn't say things like 'we can't defeat them conventionally!'. You *might* be able to, but it'll be hard.

There's still an attempted coup on the Citadel in between, and the reasons remain - as before - unknown. The reason behind it is that Cerberus knows that it'll need the Citadel, the centre of the relay network, to broadcast their control signal across the whole galaxy. Udina's reason for going along with it is simply because he had no faith in the rest of the galaxy helping Earth out, and Cerberus convinced him that their Crucible plan to control the Reapers could. That fits his cynical character to a tee.

***

Here's where things start to divert a bit. There's still a mission to help out the defence of Thessia, but rather than a mad dash to get to that temple to get at the secrets inside, the mission is to get to the main Asari command post in that temple. The question of why a temple is being used as a command post is answered by it having hidden top-notch hi-tech defences, but the question of why it has those is answered when Shepard realises that there's a Prothean beacon hidden there. He knows, because the Cipher in his head tugs at his attention. There's a chance to interact with the VI inside as in the original game, and with other Asari around, there's a larger conversation, with Liara having the chance to ask her own people why they hid this.

This is when the temple is attacked, but not by Leng and a single gunship. Instead, a force of Cerberus commandos strike - with basic Reaper forces, husks, Cannibals and such, being used as the first waves. This is the first demonstration of their new ability to control Reapers, and a demonstration of their difference in approach - whereas Reaper attacks are grand-scale battles of attrition, Cerberus has taken control of as much as it can and pointed it at all at a specific location for a surgical strike.

This catches the Asari completely by surprise, and the temple is taken. Shepard has a desperate fight with Kai Leng, but as before, loses. Leng takes the Prothean information for the Cerberus Crucible project, again leaving it blank. The Asari commanders are killed - not because Cerberus wanted them dead, necessarily, but simply because they were in the way of what Cerberus wanted. Shepard and crew manage to escape as regular, non-Cerberus Reaper troops start to descend on the place, but with the Asari commanders dead, the planet begins to fall.

***

Things are bleak as before, and Horizon and the Cerberus plays out almost exactly as before, but with the twist that the Alliance fleet discovers the Crucible at the Cerberus base and the Cerberus plan to take their control signal, amplify it with the Crucible, send it through the relay network using the Citadel and assume control of the Reapers becomes clear.

Unfortunately, the Reapers have taken the Citadel to Earth. A cutscene showing the Reapers showing up and the people on the Citadel finding themselves trapped inside as the station closes and begins following them to Earth would be cool. Why do the Reapers need it? Because it's what they use for building new Reapers, and they want to start at Earth. All of a sudden, things become urgent - with the Citadel in place, the mass harvesting of Earth and the Citadel's population is surely due to begin post-haste. Shepard and the Alliance fleet have the choice to take possession of the Crucible - it's a potent weapon, and it can be altered to make the Reapers self-destruct rather than be controlled, but its creation involved a lot of suffering. For a low war assets playthrough, it might be the only option.

The story then plays out much as before, but with some slight twists. The fleet and ground battles for Earth are very similar, though I admit I'd really have liked some sort of strategic mini-game similar to the end of ME2, with Shepard in overall command of the allied fleet and selecting which fleet elements respond to which parts of the battle, with consequences for your decisions along the way. The Normandy has a war-room, may as well use it.

***

There's the battle for London, the charge to the beam/mass relay, and Shepard barely making it there, that's all fine. I would have liked slightly different scenarios depending on the amount of ground-based war assets you have. Here, though, he would have made it through along with Anderson - it makes no real sense for them to reach the beam seperately only to have them reunite the moment something important happens, as they do in ME3. They can still reach the unexplored base of the Citadel Tower, but instead of a charnel house, I would like to see some Cerberus bodies here and there - they fought and died to get their boss on board.

It would be cool to be able to make contact with someone else in the Citadel (Bailey?) to explain that the people on the Citadel are trapped. They've got no way to leave the sealed station, and no way to get to wherever Shepard is.

The confrontation with the Illusive Man runs as before, with him having been surgically altered to access the signal himself and control the Reapers. But instead of him using strange powers to immobilise Anderson, he can simply swat the pair aside as they're half-dead and his surgery has given him some biotics. He can even control Shepard if the showdown has to go the way it did before, using the tech implanted in Shepard post-death in ME2 being based on Reaper designs if needs be.

Instead of convincing the Illusive Man that he's indoctrinated, however (that's too much like Saren), I think the conversation would be more centered on making him realise that he's become a monster and trying to open his eyes to the horror he's done in the name of his goals. using the fact that they can see Earth so TIM can look at it would be nice. I think it would be good if he would plead with Shepard to control the Reapers instead.

I'm torn on the Catalyst. I lean towards the idea of putting him aside, but if he needs to be in there, I would like him to seem more passive - more detached. A simple observer rather than an active participant in the Cycle, taking notes. And, indeed, not actually in control of the Citadel, so as to explain why he doesn't have direct control over the mass relay network etc. He can coldly state the logic behind his actions, but could be convinced by the fact that Shepard has united the galaxy in a way he could not (showing that chaos can, sometimes, throw up that million-to-one chance), or by learning that the Reapers have become cruel and vile in the millenia since he created them. Having Shepard serve as sapient life's advocate against Harbinger as the prosecution, with the Catalyst AI listening to both, might be interesting.

But, as I said, I might leave him out. As with the Crucible, the story of ME3 doesn't really need him. Without him, the endings are simplified: only Control and Destroy remain, but there could also be a third option for a military victory if there are enough war assets. Synthesis is a fascinating concept, but it's a difficult one to explain.

Modifié par SmartAlec2001, 04 juin 2013 - 04:52 .

[Megaton_Hope]

Troxa wrote...

actually it was also forshadowed in the main missions think even illusive man talked about it, It's also the only thing that explains why the reapers were in a hurry to build the human reaper. Harbinger talks about genetics in the collector base
also In me 1 at noveria

Harbinger didn't exist to say anything during the Noveria mission. He was invented for the second game.

He says that the Collectors/Reapers are our "genetic destiny," which really doesn't tie in with dark energy or explain anything.

The whole "Human Reaper will solve the build-up of dark energy" idea just plain makes no sense to me. The build-up of dark energy as a plot device I could accept, although as an origin for the heel-face turned Reapers, I am not a fan.

MassEffectFShep wrote...

1. Have a bit more time before the reaper attack (e.g., start with
shepard's tribunal, which i would have loved to see play out to get more
insight into Alliance politics)

I could dig it. Given that imported Shepard gets all these reputation points, and has either done/not done all these different possible things, it could also have different resolutions that affect gameplay, like Tali's loyalty mission did. Maybe one where you have to bust out of jail after a critical failure, and one where the Alliance throws money and resources at your Reaper fund. Perhaps with some mission in a previous game providing incontrovertible proof of Reaper contact that you don't otherwise have. (Council can still be skeptical, because they apparently don't believe in Reapers for some reason.)

Actually, if they wanted to shamelessly shill for dollars, Lair of the Shadow Broker would be a good key mission. They could have Liara still develop her information network and have the room full of screens if she's not the Broker, but you miss out on some key intel and she's not "the Broker."

SmartAlec2001 wrote...
The Crucible is, I think, kind of like a stone around the neck of the
plot of ME3. It's a huge investment of resources, personnel and time,
and no-one knows what it actually does. It's just a hope that somehow,
it'll stop the Reapers.

Well yes, considering that it basically is the plot of ME3. Without it, you basically wouldn't do anything or go anywhere, the galaxy would just be doomed. Shepard evacuates Earth, Shepard arrives on Citadel, Council busy with internal business and can't deal with Earther problems right now.

The end.

[SmartAlec2001]

SmartAlec2001 wrote...
The Crucible is, I think, kind of like a stone around the neck of the
plot of ME3. It's a huge investment of resources, personnel and time,
and no-one knows what it actually does. It's just a hope that somehow,
it'll stop the Reapers.

Well yes, considering that it basically is the plot of ME3. Without it, you basically wouldn't do anything or go anywhere, the galaxy would just be doomed. Shepard evacuates Earth, Shepard arrives on Citadel, Council busy with internal business and can't deal with Earther problems right now.

The end.

I don't think that's entirely true. Consider what happens on the Citadel - you go to the Council, ask for help. They say they can't. But later, the Turian councillor gets you to go and help Palaven with the promise that if Shepard can help relieve some of the pressure on the Turians, they can help Earth.

With or without the Crucible, these events would be exactly the same; Shepard's mission as given to him by Anderson and Hackett (build alliances, get help for Earth) is the same, the reasoning Shepard gives the Council for them helping Earth (the bulk of Reaper forces are there, stop them while you can) is still there.

Every time you get allies to help you, they say the same thing: "We'll help Earth and your Crucible project". If you removed the Crucible part of that sentence, very little would change. The core idea of 'you have saved us, now we will help save you' is still intact. I honestly think the Crucible is superfluous.

Modifié par SmartAlec2001, 04 juin 2013 - 05:04 .

[Megaton_Hope]

Yeah, it's a quid pro quo arrangement, but why am I going to Palaven to get shot at? What's my motivation? The Crucible is the hook that makes all of this beneficial to Earth, because the Alliance lacks the manpower and resources to complete the Crucible in time, and the Turians/Asari/Salarians can help complete it. Without it, we're back in "shooting doesn't work on Reapers" territory.

[SmartAlec2001]

This is why my rewriting thoughts include making the Reapers a little less invincible and Earth and other planets a little more prepared. Shooting will work on Reapers - most of the Reapers that die throughout the story die to gunfire, after all - but the Alliance alone doesn't have enough guns.

Basically, I think that the strong parts of ME3 are when it's dealing with the building of alliances and the diplomacy between the various species, and the weakest parts are when the Crucible comes into the story. So, tweak things to allow what's weak to be put aside in this theoretical 'second draft'.

[MrFob]

Oh, rewrites, they are always fun. Ok, I'll have a go at it just for fun but I'll start my rewrite at the beginning of ME2 (it's more like an outline really, with lot's of specifics still missing):
- The beginning of ME2 is the same as it was. The Normandy gets shot down by a collector ship and Shep gets blown into space, however, he also gets revived by the collectors who captured him (I am going to stick with the male version here for simplicity) and revive him to run some tests (I just hate the Lazarus project in the original, it has too powerful implications).
- Shep manages to escape from the collector ship and is picked up by Cerberus, has his meeting with TIM, learns about the missing colonies and gets onto the new Normandy, very similar to the original again.
- Shep then gets a message from Anderson and now he can decide: Does he want to work with Cerberus or with the council and the alliance (who are not quite as idiotic as in the original and are actually trying to study the reapers, etc.).
- The role of the collectors changes significantly. They have nothing to do with the protheans. They are a race just as old as the reapers and are in sort of a cold war with them. The specifics of the relation between the collectors and the reapers is what Shepard has to find out in ME2.
- It turns out that the dark energy (DE) plot (Drew's original idea for the ending) is a real problem and both the reapers and collectors are trying to stop the eventual collapse in their own way
- The reapers (located in dark space) are going down the synthetic route: They want to stop the DE problem by finding the right technology. They try to get some sort of "inspiration" through the cycles, adding small changes in technology, brought in by each cycle. They think the effect can be countered by using eezo in Mass Effect field generators
- The collectors (located at the center of the galaxy) take the biological path: They think that perfection of biological evolution holds the key. In principle they are looking for the perfect biotic organism to counteract the DE problem. Hence all the specimen collection and the tests.
- The reapers are interested in humanity due to their rapid technological advancements, the collectors because of their genetic diversity which might be useful in their endeavours in biological engineering. The fact that both the reapers and the collectors want their "piece of humanity" starts a conflict which ultimately leads to the reapers (and collector) invasion and to another extinction event.
- Humanity is not the first race to cause this. In every cycle, as soon as one side got very interested in a species because of their advancements, the reapers and the collectors clashed and either tried to take the maximum of recourses out of each cycle, believing that their way was the only one to preserve the galaxy and that giving the other side an advantage would doom them all.
- In ME3, the war breaks out between the three parties (reapers, collectors and the current cycle). Both the reapers and the collectors (who are much stronger in numbers than in the original) start their invasions. Shepard has figured out the background in ME2 and his job in ME3 is to play the two other factions long enough against each other until a stand off can be reached. There is no need for a deus ex machina like the crucible anymore.
- In the end, at the climax when all three parties stand against each other, Shepard can gain an advantage through the things he has learned. Basically, he gets the reapers and the collectors to be pitted against each other in one location.
- Now Shepard can choose. Does he want the fleet of the united races to support the reapers, the collectors or dies he choose to let both sides eliminate each other so that the races of the current cycle have to figure out the DE problem on their own.

And that's it. I know it's radically different from what we got and the whole "playing two sides against each other" sounds a bit Babylon 5-ish but it is a very different context and IMO it would have made a much more cohesive trilogy, giving the collectors a real purpose and eliminating the need for the sudden appearance of the crucible.

Modifié par MrFob, 04 juin 2013 - 05:58 .

[Hey]

so, i agree with the reapers attacking later. could have enabled more non war-zone exploration.

[thehomeworld]

My post would be long.

I like the idea of tension building OP but I would build it as Earth is freaked out that because shep blew up the star system the Batarians are going to mow us down they want blood his, ours, all humans in the galaxy. There should've been reports heard maybe from Anderson's perspective of Batarians beating Humans to death or them blowing up buildings that were human owned or human centered hangouts because they're pissed off. The brass, Anderson, the council is worried there will be an even bigger war between Humans and Aliens more then the relay war.

The council would call Anderson and tell him they have decided to write off his spector status to see how this plays out, then he gets a call from whomever is his boss now that he is no longer a council member and they say the Hegemony is petitioning them to hand shep over for them to try him there both agree not fighting tooth and nail against that is not an option sending shep to the Batarians will mean insta death for him and won't quench the hate thats boiling over.

Anderson says we still need shep here we need to do everything we can to protect him his boss lays out a few more witnesses who have been allowed to testify on sheps behalf a few more like Jack and Miranda who have been barred from helping as their backgrounds alone make them untrust worthy or bad choices for a trial. The boss also highlights new people slated to testify against shep like drug lord lady back in ME who has conned her way into the defense saying he killed my partners (leaving out the I hired him part) or other npcs you've screwed over the last 2 games.

Anderson demands shep's LI be a character witness depending on whom you picked they maynot be available like if you romanced Tali the fleet has disappeared all pilgrimages canceled or resended no Quarians can be found anywhere and no one knows why. Miranda she can't she's ex Cerberus and we can't have a terrorist as a character witness. VS sure they can go very stand up character here, did you try with Samara and no one else sure let her talk a Justicar is a huge boost!

I'd go through the trial the game takes into account did you import the last several games, what dlcs did you get, did you do them, or did you only make it half way? The trial is several days long for veterans of the series those who imported ME and ME2 you can get the whole experience this trial is not just about massacre its also a hit to take shep down he's annoyed alot of people and a lot of higher ups want this thorn removed the easiest way to say it is think law and order back and fourth they want shep to mess up they want to twist things around they want to corner the witnesses.

We get breaks every so often and this is were you can play as some of the old crew who were locked out due to their backgrounds these people now get to use those skills that made them untrust worthy to help shep out.

Kasumi or Thane can use those sneak skills to train the players with hiding, leaping over things, sneak attacking people, ect they need to break into the offices of several npcs and the lawyers of the Hegemony to steal incriminating evidence or erase fabricated evidence against shep weakening the ramm of the opposing side. They also need to sneak into shep's lawyers office to give evidence stolen from the other side or give them info that they otherwise didn't have to help bolster shep's defense nothing is a lie its just allowing the truth to be reinserted into the trial. Other characters would aslo play their roles and their success for failures help determine how the trial plays out.

Shep would then take the stand or decline to and if he does take the stand he will be hammered by both sides. Once the jury takes into account the evidence they come back guilty or not. If guilty there is also 3 levels well defended sheps get house arrest. Mediocre sheps get sent to prison for x amount of years, poorly defended sheps get a life sentence and are then also told they will stand trial for the batarians they will stay in prison for 6 month on Earth awaiting transfer. Imprisoned sheps will be placed in mandatory solitary confinement.

Now we move ahead 6 months if you were on house arrest shep will be in a house not at an Alliance office building like we saw in ME3. His home will be walled in and guards placed outside shep is truly isolated. Anderson and a few others with special clearance can get to him and thats it not even their LI VS can get in without Anderson bringing them along. So Anderson comes picks up shep and says we need you to come and analyze this they take him not back to the court room we saw in ME3 but a meeting room maybe we could place it in the city still because many government buildings are in the city it doesn't need to be in some bunker somewhere.

Prison sheps get pulled out of solitary and the player can act alittle crazy after all 23 out of 24 hours locked away with only very small walls and your own mind is a bit much to handle for 6 months. Again they're escorting them under heavy guard (and Vega) with Anderson to the building that house arrest sheps go.

We as the players get some time to move about look at the videos, read the reports, listen to any audio reports, talk to Liara for the first time in 6 months via the holograph projection, talk to Miranda, Garrus, and the Rachni rep reporting in findings you can also have some small talk too as it would be an obvious thing to do after so long. Shep says the reapers seem to be here and Anderson say this is the news we have from the military they're thinking about actions A, B, and C he lays those out to you as you ask him about them he wants you to give your opinions on this you've seen the beacons will it work. We get special wheel options for vets 5 options for non vets those who have started a new game with no data will only get 3. The reapers attack and obliterate the strategy talks evac and run.

We may have to go to Mars but shep uses the beacon like melds with it while Liara backs it up and robo chick tries to wipe her data she however can't stop shep from uploading it into his mind he learns about 2 new weapons. Liara will tell him about the crucible only because she found this in another area. Robo chic dies, shep gets presented with the crucible and can say yes or no I've got better options: 1 lets looking into weapon A from the mars beacon, 2 lets look into weapon B, or 3 lets go conventional get those forces no dubious ancient weapons for us!

We still have to kiss assets and kick them but we spend 3 times the amount on Rannoch with all that's jammed packed into this operation it needs lots of time and space. Shep and Tali's relationship also gets a roller coaster ride covering many aspects his humanity vs his cybernetics, his weaknesses being hacked, having reaper tech in him, the LP comes up, and thanks to Legion hes now aware of a new issue his reaper freaking code, he can also reveal to tali LI or not that he was exposed during Arrival to reaper influences and Harbi's promise.

It also during the Rannoch long haul that Tali and Shep's love is made public to the fleet not by their choice they're exposed Tali wanted to keep it quiet due to shep being human and a spector and it blows up just like she feared her fleet goes insane with the news of an outsider and an Admiral or for booted Tali's an even bigger scandal an outsider and a shammed former fleetmember whose is further trashing her own kind. But then it blows up even more! The citadel gets pulled into this if you travel back there. face of steel reporter is on you, news is on you the council isn't happy of all the women shep had to pick it was a Quarian!? Udina is really pissed shamming Earth now is not on option he demands you breakup with her. Their love is challenged, pressed, and bent to near breaking for all angles they must work together to stay together or break if up to end the conflict.

Shep finds Legion, saves the geth, Legion tells him about their consensus shep can flip out now in addition to just rolling with it. Shep can be worried due to overlord, his reaper tech being inside a computer world may attract reapers to them, Tali is scared too this isn't cool blending her man into a computer world flares up her old issues and puts her trust of Legion to the test. Their fears are more then realized when we findout Legion lied and it was a reaper trap he joined or was brainwashed to love the reapers while in their custody shep is hacked whiel in the consensus. Tali is forced to flee or be killed by the geth units. The fight for Rannoch just had a huge set back.

The fleet runs as the signal was at least stopped by shep's interference. They may want the world but they aren't that suicidal to get it. Tali relates how she escaped and that the geth have shep that's all she knows beyond the fact Legion himself and several units came out of their casings and started to try and kill her.

Joker brings up the question of who exactly is XO due to them not really having time to formally make one EDI says she knows and we cut to a screen. The player is presented with Liara, Garrus, Tali, VS, and Javik as these people have been with shep the longest and in the case of Javik he knows the reapers well the player can pick the new XO and commander a breif bio will come up next to the character for quick refreshing of their skills, missions this character was taken on by the players own data imported (if not an import playthrough you will see their accomplishments over their lifetime from 1 - now). Not everyone on the list will get the same commanding options and forget playing against their alignment no ren Tali or para Javik.

A two week span goes by and we are in the holo room with an informant of the SB they know shep is fighting for the reapers. Thanks to the reveal shep made to tali he can be verified as hacked over to the cause of the reapers and a plan immediately put into place if no confession was made they will think shep is a traitor who was indoctrinated. The plan is to get shep if you knew about the hack its to save him if you didn't it is to capture or kill if needed.

We have several missions of not just cat and mouse but direct fighting with reaper forces + shep if you knew he was hacked you need to do things to get the resources so Tali and EDI can come up with a way to force hack him back if you didn't know your first encounter with shep you will get a special scene that will allow the characters and the player to understand shep is hacked and so you now must not kill but save him EDI will say its possible to hack him back but you need to get a,b,c things for her and Tali and that she's detecting one of those items right now.

After the items are collected hacked shep is found again and this time Tali is ready for him the plan is made and eventually you win he is recovered and placed in medbay. A two week coma ensues for shep and once he wakes up he is told what has happened and that measures have been made working with Miranda, EDI, and Tali to make sure he can't be hacked like that again.

Tuchnka is the same save I hate the maw attack that was dumb I'd just remove it. If you got secret weapon A you can use it here as a test and thats only if shep says he's going to use it. It works but breaks ops should've gone with building the forces now you have to start doing that or go with the crucible late.

Weapon B can be used at Rannoch but you risk the world in doing so, so you can test it or hold onto it and tell Tali and Garrus to modify it. Using it makes it a win against the reaper and geth in this area but say goodbye to the homeworld you consolation prize is the geth shut down in the area so other formally held Quarian worlds are now able to be recolonized but not Rannoch. The weapon is now up for debate use it to help Earth but you might just wreck it like you just did Rannoch or forget it and buld forces of go for the crucible. You're very late to the party.

Kill TiM at his base, get all the files on the Lazarus Project that are readable, we also have audio files, pictures, and other related info and within we find the magic device that brought shep back to life they tapped into the husk making machine and now shep is running on mind over matter only! Shep freaks out and so does LI, the brass, and everybody else. The nightmares are worse they aren't about the kid anymore this stopped after Thessia they're about him becoming a husk and or high level reaper thrall like saren.

From now on Shep being too fatalistic in responses will start to get him less human and more crazy. We find out about reaper beacons we can use them to tap into the enemy's line of thought on the war. Those who are using the ancient weapons may gain ground here seeing enemy tactics and being able to stop them those concentrating on numbers only may still want to use them however using all 5 of them open shep up to indoctrination and insanity not to mention his cybernetics are going haywire and are now working to kill him those who use 3 or less are ok to function you just loose info that give you special options later. Depending on how you chose to focus the war efforts this could be vital for you winning.

Track the beacons via time and Liara's men and aid from the Rachni Queen. save the citadel again, find sanctuary via one of the beacon chase down missions (lang doesn't exist in the game at all) you find out TiM was making not just shep super clones but mixing it with reaper monsters to make something truly beyond human we also have cross breeds with other races making them super strong and intelligent no longer screaming and running into your fight they're unpredictable and difficult some even have your shep's abilities. Shep is mortified and devastated they used his genes for his we learn here how he was the only test subject they cloned him here we meed shep clone who is not the untalented brother he is a mirror like we saw in the citadel but he doesn't care about not being the real shep hes happy with being the perfect warrior for his father we also meet more Mirandas but successful ones and Jack clones though not actually her they took what they learned from her and made obedient stable power houses these guys are tougher then nails expect to die alot. Obviously we're blowing this factory sky high no saving the clones here.

No citadel moves, no catylist, we take on Harbi if we can in space if we can't do that then on Earth while the rest of our fleets battle the reapers. We give the FU to harbi. But before we go to Earth I must back up and talk about Thessia I skipped it:

Thessia still has a beacon but not a retconned beacon that gives holograms shep must meld with it as well it also tells us were another reaper beacon and weapon schematics we can use as well as info on the Asari we learn they were made this way engineered to be as they are once 2 sexes the one was eclipsed to become female holding all the males powerful selective traits with none downsides. Originally the males melded to attune themselves with the female to make sure their offspring had the best genes each could give the reapers found out about this ability and modified them made the Asari the mindmelding gene copying creatures we know today that are appealing to all and made them into thralls they were a key species that helped convince people the reapers were great see Shiala for brainwashing the idea this would work great. The protheans from another world (not Illos) experimented on Asari manipulated them again to counter act so in todays world you have those Asari that are easy pickings for the reaper signals and those like Liara who aren't thanks to Athena whose bloodline carried the gene and sense she gave birth to Liara that is how the gene pasted to her only if the mother gives birth this way the Asari's partner can't code out the mutation given to anti-indoctrination one. This is also why you get yahkshi if the Asari skip this mutation in the code you get a yakshi it is why it was taboo for Asari to mate with each other the protheans made a disadvantage that wasn't there before. Anyway Thessia still loses but it was not just the reapers showing up it was the fact many on the world we corruptible anyway and the few who weren't just couldn't hold them off any longer.

The citadel is taken over before you head to Earth not because of Udina but the Asari councilor who indoctrinated him both close the citadel make it into a relay killing all inside and more reapers come through but we now have a link to dark space.

We get to Earth bringing all our forces to EArth if you focused on forges option C you could have 90 - 100% by now if you picked weaponA and lost it at Tuchanka you've got 50 - 60% but if you gained the reaper beacons and sacrificed yourself you could still pull this off and

if you got weaponB and decided to scrap it you could have 20 - 40% but if you again got the beacons you'll have it rough. If you didn't do the beacons for the weapon focusers you stand at losing the war or getting very high death tolls and losing entire species's military froces to make this happen.

Pre Earth retake obviously you still get to be with your LI but no one second crap ME style pace it out abit it always best and then we relax get ready and go to the freaking war room and actually use it. Hope you studied up on your ship models its time for space Kessen! you get access to new strategies if you used the reaper beacons and fleets will also live through attacks and some of the reaper's moves like if they pincer units they live because they were briefed on the strategies the beacons contained they trained on how to maneuver to parry them. In Kessen you need to figure out a prebattle strategy how will you men interact with the opposing force this takes time but what war shouldn't? After doing all you can to help the war come up in your favor its time to test your strategy the war starts units deployed you monitor it as best you can and interject where needed all units will fight how you dictated prior but if you click on them you can revise what they do on the fly and change your strategy as the enemy does his. You need to know what units you fight what you don't want Normandy sized ships going up against reapers! or sending the Tokyo to fight little drones!

You could also oddly cut the game short by deploying the weapon B you wipe out alot of reapers doing this so much so they'll flee but you're garenteed to ruin it like Rannoch and Earth will need to be hastily evacuated by half the force just to try and save some people while you chase after the reapers.

After you do some space battling you can finally get close to Earth and Harbi you get down there fight through hordes of monsters and eventually get to Harbi if you used the beacons he can indoctrinated you as the battle begins take too long and you become his and now your XO who you picked prior who also insisted on being in your party must make the call is it important to try and spare you or should they kill you. You play as the XO in the battle of Harbi and Shep vs you.

If you didn't do all the beacons no problem but you lose more men and units in the space kessen battle and you now don't have the garentee you can leave Earth or that Earth won't be overrun with forces as the ships in space struggle to out maneuver and survive the chaos.

Once you've done enough damage to Harbi if you were the weapon focusers with not alot of troops you can defeat Harbi but above low fleets and no 5 beacon users lose the war they're over run a bittersweet ending you got that last stab but was also taken out yourself and shep dies.

if you're low fleet but used the beacons you've lost 50% of your space fleet but the reapers will flee if you try to kill shep he flees with Harbi if you spare him you get him in acoma is fate unknown, and so will Harbi,

if you have a medium range but didn't use the 5 beacons you lose 30% of your force but the reapers do flee if you wanted to kill shep he goes with harbi injured if you want to spare him he's in acoma and badly injured fate at this point is unknown,

high players with no 5 beacons 20% loss reapers flee, if you used the beacons 10% loss if you want to kill shep he flees with harbi and reapers if not he's injured but you damaged harbi in such away he is still able to function no coma but he is not the best right now.

Either way if the reaeprs flee you chase them through the citidel relay into dark space. Now weapon B focusers who held back can deploy their weapon with low or medium forces and kill lots of reapers. You still need to takeout what you missed so your surviving forces will fight whats left but you will still lose people in the case of the low scores the Normandy is one of a handful of ships that live depending on how low your score was and if you didn't use the beacons you killed off entire species of fighters. If you used the 5 beacons but came in with low ships you have at least 1 ship of a species left standing Shep if you wanted him dead boards the Normandy with forces and you must defeat him there is no option to save him you must kill him. however coma shep's wake up in time.

medium if you had not used the beacons and intended to kill shep and used weapon B hes dead but again you don't have many ship alive to savor it the victory fleet is more then just shattered you have more human and alien ships standing but more like 20. If you used weapon B and have used all the beacons and saved shep you have more ships that live and shep wakes up in time. If you used the weapon and beacons but wanted shep dead he boards the Normandy for a showdown and ships are saved thanks to your weapon and the strategies of the beacons.

if you're high and focused on building units instead all game long you just kick reaper assets all over the place you went in strong had strong remaining and went into dark space strong against their weak forces many units live those who used the beacons save nearly all forces saved sheps are in command during this battle. Indoctrinated sheps will fight hard in this battle reboard the ship with reaper forces you must kill them. If you used the 5 beacons and focused on the numbers and wanted to save shep you've got a great advantage many of your ships live to tell the tale and reapers dies quickly. You will harbi. If you chose to kill shep he reboards the ship and you have to kill him.

Now I never did get to the catylist people did I? Well this choice doesn't have the think hooking to the citadel its more like a gun a dud gun that you find out about after its there you want to use it and all it does if fire out its ass and kill your men and send out an emp pulse that effects 30% of your ships. The reapers allow these plans to stick around because it was meant to be a resource pit you can't get lots of man power when you're wasting it on this thing so even though you have all the major fractions open to you you still took out some men then if you didn't use 5 beacons you'll lose another 20% and if you spare shep he's still around to see this play out. If you did you the beacons you lose an additional 10% but you also lost 30% because of the trap factor. Saved sheps are around to see this through. Indoctrinated sheps again go with Harbi and you all meet in dark space. indoctrinated sheps try to personally kill you. If you used the beacons you get a fairly positive end game many ships live due to the new strategies and spared sheps get to see it through evil sheps die, if you didn't use the beacons you get the same ending as a medium unit no beacon shep gets.

There I've been typing forever but I think I got most of what I wanted to say out. Doubt anyones going to read this but maybe BW would .

Modifié par thehomeworld, 04 juin 2013 - 06:29 .

[AlanC9]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
It's a gutsy strategy. Not only do you have to keep the bulk of the existing fans on board with that price point, you also have to sell a $90 game to people who aren't invested in the series.

Dunno. I'm not a business/econ guy. No clue how the video-game industry works, either, just thinking out loud with these posts. I mean, ME3 produced record sales though, so I don't think a price bump would kill it. Hell, it might even generate more buzz. Again, make it known early. Better pre-release marketing would help, too. It was pretty lousy.

Maybe it would work. A lot of people didn't believe Starbucks could charge what they charge for a cup of coffee, but it turns out they can. 

Just saying that there's risk in going that much higher than the typical market price. Serious risk. 

[Bleachrude]

Which is kind of weird if you think about it...

Weren't there N64 games that cost more than $60...I definitely remember Starfox64 costing $70 and I could've sworn that Killer Instinct was something like $80.

[chemiclord]

Bleachrude wrote...

Which is kind of weird if you think about it...

Weren't there N64 games that cost more than $60...I definitely remember Starfox64 costing $70 and I could've sworn that Killer Instinct was something like $80.

Yep.  They were.

Think about that when you wonder why things like Day 1 DLC and microtransactions exist.

[INH56]

I've read that, adjusted for inflation, game prices are currently the lowest they've been in decades. So, yeah, it is pretty weird.

[Everyone Is Someone]

I would have changed a million things, but as someone who doesn't write for a living, I know most of the ideas are simply to make the game more appealing to me personally, as opposed to players as a whole.

Having said that, I would definitely have made the Crucible the hub of the game, instead of the Citadel. You would see the war assets you've collected depending on your choices in the game (e.g. salarians, rachni, geth, ex-Cerberus) interacting, making you feel like you made more of a difference. I would've also used this to foreshadow the endings better; i.e. once you unlock Synthesis, they'll talk about how the dark energy can be transformative instead of destructive, or once you unlock "Shepard breathes", the scientist will talk about how accurate the beam would be.

[Sheridan31]

Change the ending to allow us to break free of the reapers.

Then they announce that dark matter is going to consume everything unless they stopp it.

Ultimate Renegate: Leave the reaper alive and work with them
Ultimate Paragon: Destroy the reaper and believe the new galacic alliance will find a way

[AlanC9]

INH56 wrote...

I've read that, adjusted for inflation, game prices are currently the lowest they've been in decades. So, yeah, it is pretty weird.

Looks like games are currently at the low end of their historical constant-dollar price range, which tends to cycle around $67 or so in 2013 dollars, IIRC. I've got a 1998 issue of CGW here, and the new A-list stuff is listing at 40, 45, and 50 dollars; the BLS calculator says that's $57-71. Quake is an outlier listing for $59, or $84 in 2013 dollars. Point for H.Y.R. 2.0, I think. (I don't have any data on how discounting worked in that era, though)

That CGW has pre-release ads for BG1 and Secret of Vulcan Fury. The latter is just sad to see; the former is highly amusing since there are some very misleading statements in the ad copy.

Modifié par AlanC9, 04 juin 2013 - 03:39 .

[N7PT]

I'm seeing some very good ideas here, namely HYR's ideas on the game with DeinonSlayer's Rannoch arc and ending. I particularly like that "go to Reaper HQ and cut the evil by its roots" vibe.