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If you could re-write ME3


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#176
Fixers0

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chemiclord wrote...

Okay... so again, since you don't want to answer this question:

Had ME3's journal lumped all of its fetch quests in "Turian Assets", "Asari Assets", etc... you'd have accepted the argument that ME3 only had 7 or 8 fetch quests?

Somehow I doubt that.


But the gamee didn't, that's the point it are all seperate fetch question mostly about recovering items of various importance you appealing to a probabily is formal fallacy, and as such makes your entire position unsupported.

chemiclord wrote...
But go ahead and keep clinging to some arbitrary BS rather than admit you were wrong about ME1's "fetch quests".


But's i'm not wrong, I've got the numbers and you unfortunatly don't.

#177
chemiclord

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I do have the numbers.

ME1 had you find trivial **** 55 times.

ME3 had you do it 31 times.

The REAL numbers (not contrived ones to "prove" a predetermined conclusion) are on MY side, not YOURS.

Modifié par chemiclord, 06 juin 2013 - 10:39 .


#178
Fixers0

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Bleachrude wrote...

Chemiclord is right though...

You're counting the various "pick up X objects and turn in together" as 1 quest even though for say the Asari writings, you have to pick up at least 10 of the 16.

All of which require you to examine each planet, land and then use the mako to reach the writing....

I'm not sure how this graphic is fair (and it does a disservice to any argument since anyone who actually played ME1 would realize it quickly)


Easy, the game catgorizes them as a single quest, ands so they are. Besides, you're false. not all collection quest require the player to be planetside to obtain them.

Time subject to each player indiviual experiance and as such can't be used as an accurate way to measure the amount of fetch quest present.

#179
Fixers0

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chemiclord wrote...

I do have the numbers.

ME1 had you find trivial **** 55 times.

ME3 had you do it 31 times.

The REAL numbers (not contrived ones to "prove" a predetermined conclusion) are on MY side, not YOURS.


That's rather odd, because I happen to have the numbers as well.

ME1 had five collection quests in total.
ME3 had 31 collection quests in total

How many times is irrelevant in this regard as the game catagorizes them as as single quest.

Modifié par Fixers0, 06 juin 2013 - 10:42 .


#180
chemiclord

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Just keep spinnin' man. Just keep spinnin'.

#181
Fixers0

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chemiclord wrote...

Just keep spinnin' man. Just keep spinnin'.


It's glad to see you've come to some self realization.

Modifié par Fixers0, 06 juin 2013 - 10:43 .


#182
Ultimate Pheer

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Wasn't this thread supposed to be about how we would rewrite mass effect 3, and not how many fetch quests each had?

I'm not taking a side, just asking a question.

#183
Fixers0

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Ultimate Pheer wrote...

Wasn't this thread supposed to be about how we would rewrite mass effect 3, and not how many fetch quests each had?

I'm not taking a side, just asking a question.


Yeah, sorry for all the bickering, the mods can have it be removed at once, all i wanted to do was to present the factual evidence, but as you saw it got rather out of hand.

#184
AlanC9

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Fixers0 wrote...


That's rather odd, because I happen to have the numbers as well.

ME1 had five collection quests in total.
ME3 had 31 collection quests in total

How many times is irrelevant in this regard as the game catagorizes them as as single quest.


Why are the raw numbers of collection quests a sensible way to look at this in the first place? By gameplay hour ME3 has less time-wasting crap than ME1 does, even if you tick off more things on the quest list while doing it.

i mean, I get why you're actually doing it, but what's the rationale?

Modifié par AlanC9, 06 juin 2013 - 11:04 .


#185
chemiclord

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Ultimate Pheer wrote...

Wasn't this thread supposed to be about how we would rewrite mass effect 3, and not how many fetch quests each had?

I'm not taking a side, just asking a question.


It is kinda related though.  Because one of the things that keeps popping up is "remove ME3's fetch quests and replace it with 'real' content."

The problem is that such quests have ALWAYS made up a sizable chunk of Mass Effect's content, from ME1 to ME3, no matter how it was classified.  It's all artificial inflation of the games total time investment, and it's not something you can replace with "real" content because:

1) Such quests are cheap to do.

2) They are very time consuming for the player in relation to the resources spent making them.

Removing them wouldn't give you much that you could replace it with.  Maybe one "full mission"... if that.

Modifié par chemiclord, 06 juin 2013 - 11:02 .


#186
Ultimate Pheer

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Stop bringing it up please, don't restart the flame war.

Let us just continue on, flame war free...

#187
AlanC9

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Ultimate Pheer wrote...

Stop bringing it up please, don't restart the flame war.

Let us just continue on, flame war free...


chemiclord, he's got a point. As long as someone doesn't actually say something as stupid as "just turn all the fetch quests into real missions," we can live with a little silliness.

#188
chemiclord

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Ultimate Pheer wrote...

Stop bringing it up please, don't restart the flame war.

Let us just continue on, flame war free...


What I want people here to think about is that the resources for a game is finite.  As many good ideas as there are (and yes, many of them are VERY good), many of them also aren't feasible because of limited resources.  

It doesn't matter how you'd re-write ME3 if it goes beyond what can reasonably be done.  You're just setting a bar that Bioware could not be expected to clear; how is that supposed to be helpful criticism?

Modifié par chemiclord, 06 juin 2013 - 11:10 .


#189
Ultimate Pheer

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We can't expect them to clear any bar, I don't expect them to change anything about it- Headcanon is free from any limitations, that is the beauty of it.

#190
Megaton_Hope

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Bleachrude wrote...

You're counting the various "pick up X objects and turn in together" as 1 quest even though for say the Asari writings, you have to pick up at least 10 of the 16.

All of which require you to examine each planet, land and then use the mako to reach the writing....

A fair number are actually floating around loose in  space, in "carbonaceous asteroids" that you scan.

#191
chemiclord

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Ultimate Pheer wrote...

We can't expect them to clear any bar, I don't expect them to change anything about it- Headcanon is free from any limitations, that is the beauty of it.


But a "headcanon" that is grounded in what is possible is something that Bioware can actually use.  It's useful feedback that is lacking from both sides right now.

Modifié par chemiclord, 07 juin 2013 - 12:10 .


#192
AlanC9

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If we're talking about rewriting ME3 we should be trying to stay within the real resource constraints on the game. Bio's writers had to; so should we.

#193
Iakus

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 Sadly, to make ME3 make more sense, you'd have to go back to ME2 and make it not so pointless.

I'd have redone ME2 to have SHepard and Cerberus teaming up to uncover more information about the Protheans' war with the Reapers, to learn more about their enemy (perhaps Cerberus is willing to offer Shepard resources the Council isn't, since they've "dismissed that claim" but Shep must work with them in secret because, you know, Cerberus)  with the Collectors trying to foil Shepard's efforts.  ME2 would then culminate in a "suicide mission" which gives Shepard the data on the Crucible.

At any rate, for the Crucible itself, I'd have all these things accumulated actually do something.  What the Crucible did depended on what you gathered, not some arbitrary hnumber.  Certain assets would help you unlock Synthesis.  Others Destroy, and so on.  Plus these functions could have various "settings" also dependant on stuff you gathered.  You could create a Destroy wave weak enough for the geth to survive, but would only damage the Reapers, leading to a bloody, costly "conventional victory".  Or a faulty Synthesis ending where the Reapers stop Reaping, but all life in the galaxy is infested with genetic defects and horrible mutations.  Good and bad variations about as fine-tuning the Crucible's function becomes as much a part of the game as pwning space zombies.  Upgrade weapons?  Let's upgrade the ultimate weapon!

Hackett could report which directions research is taking them, and Shepard could make recommendations on what to aim towards, should you unlock multiple functions

"The Crucible could let us hijack Reaper signals?  That's worth investigating sir"

""The only good Reaper is a dead Reaper.  I say we lfigure out how to direct this energy as a weapon"  

#194
David7204

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Did people complain this much about ME 2 being 'pointless' when ME 2 was released?

#195
AlanC9

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Some did, actually.

#196
David7204

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It's something I would respect a lot more if I had seen better suggestions than just introducing the Crucible earlier.

#197
TheProtheans

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iakus wrote...

 Sadly, to make ME3 make more sense, you'd have to go back to ME2 and make it not so pointless.

I'd have redone ME2 to have SHepard and Cerberus teaming up to uncover more information about the Protheans' war with the Reapers, to learn more about their enemy (perhaps Cerberus is willing to offer Shepard resources the Council isn't, since they've "dismissed that claim" but Shep must work with them in secret because, you know, Cerberus)  with the Collectors trying to foil Shepard's efforts.  ME2 would then culminate in a "suicide mission" which gives Shepard the data on the Crucible.

At any rate, for the Crucible itself, I'd have all these things accumulated actually do something.  What the Crucible did depended on what you gathered, not some arbitrary hnumber.  Certain assets would help you unlock Synthesis.  Others Destroy, and so on.  Plus these functions could have various "settings" also dependant on stuff you gathered.  You could create a Destroy wave weak enough for the geth to survive, but would only damage the Reapers, leading to a bloody, costly "conventional victory".  Or a faulty Synthesis ending where the Reapers stop Reaping, but all life in the galaxy is infested with genetic defects and horrible mutations.  Good and bad variations about as fine-tuning the Crucible's function becomes as much a part of the game as pwning space zombies.  Upgrade weapons?  Let's upgrade the ultimate weapon!

Hackett could report which directions research is taking them, and Shepard could make recommendations on what to aim towards, should you unlock multiple functions

"The Crucible could let us hijack Reaper signals?  That's worth investigating sir"

""The only good Reaper is a dead Reaper.  I say we lfigure out how to direct this energy as a weapon"  


The problem with ME3 is that it is a plot hole ridden game, EC both fixes and makes it worse.
Well mainly just some of the problems near the of the game.
Literally you're telling us to make ME2 better, we're going to have foreshadow a terrible device that has no realistic background even in the MEU, apart from turtles ofcourse.
To make something that is terribly written to make sense we have to also make something else that is terribly written to explain it.
I for one don't wish to waste time rewriting ME2 just to give it a worse plot line taken from another game.



The only reason I would even consider rewriting ME2, is to make it foreshadow/build towards something in a newly constructed plot for ME3 that is completely different from the crap we got.

Modifié par TheProtheans, 07 juin 2013 - 08:24 .


#198
TheProtheans

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All this talk about limited resources, for the rewrite I suggest no Multiplayer.
Problem solved.

#199
David7204

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Game design does not work that way, writing does not work that way, and budgets do not work that way.

In any case, given the revenue multiplayer generates, it's likely that multiplayer subsidizes single player, not the other way around.

Modifié par David7204, 07 juin 2013 - 08:36 .


#200
TheProtheans

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David7204 wrote...

Game design does not work that way, writing does not work that way, and budgets do not work that way.

In any case, given the revenue multiplayer generates, it's likely that multiplayer subsidizes single player, not the other way around.


If they can't make something better with extra disc space then we may as well call it a day and hang in the towel. 
Mass effect was SP before it was MP.