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Put fem!Protagonist on the box!


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#1
katiebour

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 Watch this:
THE CREEPY CULL OF FEMALE PROTAGONISTS


Then this:
OBJECTIFICATION AND...MEN? 

Box art for DA2:
Image IPB

Box art for ME1, ME2, and ME3:
Image IPB

Image IPB

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DA:O had a dragon on the cover, not a protag.

And no, I don't want to see another fem!companion on the box.  World of Thedas had Morrigan, which is cool, but we don't play as Morrigan.  She's a companion and a romance for m!Warden.  Putting the main male character's love interest on the box (hot chicks sell, huh-huh-huh.) and calling it good is for Square Enix and Final Fantasy.  Don't give me a hot chick that I can romance.  Give me a capable, badass chick that I can PLAY.

I don't want Cass on the box unless I'm playing as Cass.  You guys will have a default Inquisitor in the CC for both male and female toons- put fem!Inquisitor on the box!

Bioware has tried so hard (and often succeeded) at being inclusive.  This is an area where I think you guys could improve.  If you don't want just fem!Protag on the box, put her side-by-side with man!Protag.  Give them equal billing.  Give women recognition and stand up for us.

As an aside, while I was writing this, I noticed these two ads and links here on the BSN:

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Notice anything?

You guys have the power to change the industry simply by your own actions.  Please, try.

#2
Giga Drill BREAKER

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Wouldn't sell. Google Kevin Levine box art for reasons why.


I'd like to see no one on the box art, well maybe some of the party NPCs.

Modifié par DinoSteve, 03 juin 2013 - 07:25 .


#3
Steppenwolf

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I think the reversible male/female cover like ME3 had should be the norm for their games from now on. I would take it a step further though and make it a 50/50 split of male to female when packaging so both covers can be visible to consumers.

#4
Snook

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 Maybe it's just me but I actually prefer cover art that doesn't have anybody on it at all. Like this.

Image IPB

Image IPB

Somehow, things like that actually catch my eye more than anything else.

But still, anything's better than broody dudebro walking towards the screen.

Modifié par SergeantSnookie, 03 juin 2013 - 07:30 .


#5
Jedi Master of Orion

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Image IPB

www.youtube.com/watch

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 03 juin 2013 - 07:35 .


#6
SgtElias

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SergeantSnookie wrote...

 Maybe it's just me but I actually prefer cover art that doesn't have anybody on it at all.

Agreed. Not sure what it is, but I agree completely.

But still, anything's better than broody dudebro walking towards the screen.


Ugh, yes. My husband and I have started referring to this as "Rated D for Dudebro."

Modifié par SgtElias, 03 juin 2013 - 07:35 .


#7
Fredward

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Didn't I read somewhere that there wouldn't be a female protag on the box but that they have something "else" planned for her?

#8
katiebour

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DinoSteve wrote...

Wouldn't sell. Google Kevin Levine box art for reasons why.


I'd like to see no one on the box art, well maybe some of the party NPCs.


Dragon Age is an established franchise.  It has a following that is panting at the door to pre-order as we speak.  They're still going to buy DA3 even if there's a fem!Protag on the box.

Also, did you watch the vids I linked?  The first one actually addresses Kevin Levine and Bioshock Infinite's box art.

Lastly, this is a problem.  I am a woman and this upsets me.  Everytime I go to Origin to boot up Mass Effect I see Sheploo.  Fem!Shep is nowhere to be seen.  Sheploo is all over the Mass Effect universe artbook- fem!Shep is in the back cover.

Stop relegating our female avatars (not companions, not romances, but our playable heroines- our AVATARS) to the back cover.  If you're gonna put m!protag on the box, put f!protag there too.

As for whether or not it will sell, well, that remains to be seen.  The first vid I linked talks about the chicken-and-egg problem of games with female avatars being given half the marketing funding that games with male avatars do.  

Try it and see.  At least put them both on the box if you're going to put either.

#9
Chanda

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Sure. Put a dragon on the box. That works.

#10
katiebour

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BasilKarlo wrote...

I think the reversible male/female cover like ME3 had should be the norm for their games from now on. I would take it a step further though and make it a 50/50 split of male to female when packaging so both covers can be visible to consumers.


(bolding mine for emphasis) I LOVE this idea.

Modifié par katiebour, 03 juin 2013 - 07:41 .


#11
Giga Drill BREAKER

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SgtElias wrote...

SergeantSnookie wrote...

 Maybe it's just me but I actually prefer cover art that doesn't have anybody on it at all.

Agreed. Not sure what it is, but I agree completely.

But still, anything's better than broody dudebro walking towards the screen.


Ugh, yes. My husband and I have started referring to this as "Rated D for Dudebro."


Reminds me of "right hand holds the gun left hand holds the orange"

#12
Guest_BringBackNihlus_*

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As a dudebro, I am offended.

I hope they put a male protagonist on the cover just to spite you, wench.

#13
Himmelstor

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DinoSteve wrote...

Wouldn't sell. Google Kevin Levine box art for reasons why.


I'd like to see no one on the box art, well maybe some of the party NPCs.

Agreed.

#14
LadyRaena13

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It would be interesting if they did something similar to what they did when they made the Mass Effect 3 femshep cover and just had dudeshep one side and femshep on the other letting the people at the store or the gamer decide.

#15
Giga Drill BREAKER

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katiebour wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

Wouldn't sell. Google Kevin Levine box art for reasons why.


I'd like to see no one on the box art, well maybe some of the party NPCs.


Dragon Age is an established franchise.  It has a following that is panting at the door to pre-order as we speak.  They're still going to buy DA3 even if there's a fem!Protag on the box.

Also, did you watch the vids I linked?  The first one actually addresses Kevin Levine and Bioshock Infinite's box art.

Lastly, this is a problem.  I am a woman and this upsets me.  Everytime I go to Origin to boot up Mass Effect I see Sheploo.  Fem!Shep is nowhere to be seen.  Sheploo is all over the Mass Effect universe artbook- fem!Shep is in the back cover.

Stop relegating our female avatars (not companions, not romances, but our playable heroines- our AVATARS) to the back cover.  If you're gonna put m!protag on the box, put f!protag there too.

As for whether or not it will sell, well, that remains to be seen.  The first vid I linked talks about the chicken-and-egg problem of games with female avatars being given half the marketing funding that games with male avatars do.  

Try it and see.  At least put them both on the box if you're going to put either.

You are already a fan of Bioware games they are not trying to sell them to you nor are they trying to sell them to those who will preorder them, and it is a fact that a male protagonist on the cover art will attract more people to buy a the game than a female one would.
I'm not saying it is good thing or a bad thing all I'm saying is its good business, which has been proven time and time again, otherwise it wouldn't still be happening.

and its freaking box art don't be so sensitive.

Modifié par DinoSteve, 03 juin 2013 - 07:51 .


#16
katiebour

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Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Image IPB

www.youtube.com/watch


I haven't played this game, so I can't speak as to who this character is.  But I watched the vid you linked, and here's what I saw.

Fem!character swears vengeance.  Male!character (who the camera has spent more time on than any other character in this preview thus far) tells her to "Get it together, darling."  Because obviously she needs man!character to call the shots, with a cute little endearment, no less.  He then leads the way, and tosses her a gun (she has no agency without him.)  And then they kiss.

Swap it around.  Have fem!character the star of the preview (with the camera spending the bulk of the time in the preview on her), finding m!character.  Maybe she tells him "Get it together, darling," and then tosses him a gun.  Then he makes googly eyes at her and they kiss.

No?

Modifié par katiebour, 03 juin 2013 - 07:50 .


#17
TheChris92

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DinoSteve wrote...

Wouldn't sell. Google Kevin Levine box art for reasons why.


I'd like to see no one on the box art, well maybe some of the party NPCs.

Didn't stop Naughty Dog from keeping Ellie as the front of their cover for Last of Us - If a game developer doesn't have confidence that his game isn't going to be successful without marketing it as something it isn't, then I pity them. In the long run the boxart doesn't really count all that much, well not everyone, as the cruncher that seals the deal.
All in all I wouldn't mind if the protagonist is not shown at all, though I get the feeling BioWare wants to be iconic with all of their characters nowadays.

Modifié par TheChris92, 03 juin 2013 - 07:54 .


#18
Sylvius the Mad

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I don't see any reason to put the protagonist on the box, at all. Particularly as long as we have any character customisation options.

#19
GenericEnemy

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SergeantSnookie wrote...

 Maybe it's just me but I actually prefer cover art that doesn't have anybody on it at all. Like this.



i agree. a more fancy version of this is all i want:

Image IPB

#20
Fredward

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katiebour wrote...

I haven't played this game, so I can't speak as to who this character is.  But I watched the vid you linked, and here's what I saw.

Fem!character swears vengeance.  Male!character (who the camera has spent more time on than any other character in this preview thus far) tells her to "Get it together, darling."  Because obviously she needs man!character to call the shots, with a cute little endearment, no less.  He then leads the way, and tosses her a gun (she has no agency without him.)  And then they kiss.

Swap it around.  Have fem!character the star of the preview (with the camera spending the bulk of the time in the preview on her), finding m!character.  Maybe she tells him "Get it together, darling," and then tosses him a gun.  Then he makes googly eyes at her and they kiss.

No?


I... actually really, really like that idea. WHY AREN'T THERE GAMES LIKE THIS.

#21
quickthorn

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I like the idea of a symbol, or a mix of some of the companion NPCs of both sexes. M!Hawke certainly didn't reflect my characters but nor did the default F!Hawke. So why have the focus on a protagonist that might differ a great deal from the cover image!

#22
Giga Drill BREAKER

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GenericEnemy wrote...

SergeantSnookie wrote...

 Maybe it's just me but I actually prefer cover art that doesn't have anybody on it at all. Like this.



i agree. a more fancy version of this is all i want:

Image IPB


Do not like, would rather a dragon or something, or maybe templers and mages fighting each other.

#23
katiebour

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DinoSteve wrote...

katiebour wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

Wouldn't sell. Google Kevin Levine box art for reasons why.


I'd like to see no one on the box art, well maybe some of the party NPCs.


Dragon Age is an established franchise.  It has a following that is panting at the door to pre-order as we speak.  They're still going to buy DA3 even if there's a fem!Protag on the box.

Also, did you watch the vids I linked?  The first one actually addresses Kevin Levine and Bioshock Infinite's box art.

Lastly, this is a problem.  I am a woman and this upsets me.  Everytime I go to Origin to boot up Mass Effect I see Sheploo.  Fem!Shep is nowhere to be seen.  Sheploo is all over the Mass Effect universe artbook- fem!Shep is in the back cover.

Stop relegating our female avatars (not companions, not romances, but our playable heroines- our AVATARS) to the back cover.  If you're gonna put m!protag on the box, put f!protag there too.

As for whether or not it will sell, well, that remains to be seen.  The first vid I linked talks about the chicken-and-egg problem of games with female avatars being given half the marketing funding that games with male avatars do.  

Try it and see.  At least put them both on the box if you're going to put either.

You are already a fan of Bioware games they are not trying to sell them to you nor are they trying to sell them to those who will preorder them, and it is a fact that a male protagonist on the cover art will attract more people to buy a the game than a female one would.
I'm not saying it is good thing or a bad thing all I'm saying is its good business, which has been proven time and time again, otherwise it wouldn't still be happening.

and its freaking box art don't be so freaking sensitive.


"and its freaking box art don't be so freaking sensitive."

No, dear, what it is is erasure of a female avatar.  Because obviously a woman can't save the world- it's going to take a man.  That's what the cover art with a male!protag tells us.  That's the attitude it reinforces.  And Bioware is in a position to help change that.

And your comment is something that women talking about gender issues in video games hear all the time.  "You're just sensitive/emotional."  "It's not really a problem."  "Stop complaining."  "Shut up and sit down."

And I'm telling you, as a woman gamer, that it is a problem.  It's a problem for all minorities- when was the last time you saw a dude-bro of color as the protag on video game box art?  It reinforces the idea that only white guys can save the world.  Throw a female LI on the front in some skin-tight clothing positioned behind heroic dudebro and suddenly the message is that only straight white guys can save the world.

And it's a problem that I'm hoping that my favorite video game company will see, acknowledge, and choose to act on.  Because they've already demonstrated that they're willing to push boundaries to promote inclusiveness, and it would thrill me down to the very bottom of my gamer heart to see fem!protag on the box, heroic savior of the universe, even if it's right next to her buddy male!protag, also savior of the universe.

Modifié par katiebour, 03 juin 2013 - 08:01 .


#24
Snook

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DinoSteve wrote...

GenericEnemy wrote...

SergeantSnookie wrote...

 Maybe it's just me but I actually prefer cover art that doesn't have anybody on it at all. Like this.



i agree. a more fancy version of this is all i want:

Image IPB


Do not like, would rather a dragon or something, or maybe templers and mages fighting each other.


Maybe make the Inquisition symbol bigger, and have mages and Templars fighting reflecting on its eye. To be all symbolic about the Inquisition seeing all or something. 

Or they could just do this.

Image IPB

Modifié par SergeantSnookie, 03 juin 2013 - 08:04 .


#25
Nole

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Sorry. Not going to happen.