700 réponses à ce sujet

[p1013]

Nightdragon8 wrote...

I got a serious question, How many "females" not buy a game because there is not a male on the cover, or because there is a female on the cover?

because I would really love to see how many people honestly care about game cover art as "being the reason" for buying a game. because all the numbers aside, thats the REAL question here. and there is no poll that has been given as to "If ou see this on the cover will you buy it" sort of thing.

Cause as a gamer I could care less what the cover looks like. Its the same with CD's for music I could honeslty care less about the cover and more about the music.

I can't justify going out and saying "This cover looks pretty, I'll buy it!" and then listen to the music and find out I hate it.

If I wanna buy "Art" I wlll go out and find "Art" that I like and buy it.

If I saw a Bioware game with a female protagonist on the cover, for a franchise that I had not heard of or played before, I would be more willing to pick it up than a similar game from the same company with a male character. Besides the whole gender issue that's going on in this thread, there are so few games with female protagonists that I find the novelty of it enticing.

[MoosenLoosen]

I Like Cats And wrote...

MoosenLoosen wrote...

I Like Cats And wrote...

p1013 wrote...

As a female gamer, I'd really like to see more representation of woman protagonists in games in GENERAL, not just on box art. I don't think putting a woman on the cover is going to hurt sales of a highly anticipated game, and I'd like to know that I'm being recognized by the industry. Woman make up half of the video game market now, we're out here, and we just want to be represented actively, instead of being relegated to the back cover or as a 3/4 shot behind the male protagonist.

Females definitely dont make up half of all gamers, it might be closer if you include casual games and stuff like iphone games.

Actually, yes we do.

Casual games doe.....they don't really care about Mass Effect box covers.

Do you really want to do this? Really?

What's the difference between "entry level" social media gaming and an RPG? There's none. The genre is different, yes, there's a plot in one and lots of vegetables in the other. Social media games have passionate communities just like other "real" games do.

While it's true that I don't see Farmville making a stiff-lipped adult cry on the floor in uncontrollable grief, they really aren't all that different. The entire community needs to drop the elitism. (Which is rooted in their accessibility and the persistent and very false belief that "real gaming" is exclusive, when really, it's not.) Mass Effect and Dragon Age might be more emotionally involved and more detailed, but unless you're playing professionally in tournaments, they're both casual games. 

Whether or not you install them, if you play them on console or PC, if they make you cry or you can have a relationship doesn't constitute a "real game" and does not differentiate from a "casual game". You can divide by genre and therefore audience, but there are many "real gamers" who play social media games and vice versa. You can't separate the two.

The only thing that differentiates those two is a flimsy line drawn by "real gamers" who feel that their exclusive haven has been invaded by middle aged women on facebook. It's juvenile, it's trivial and it's unnecessary. Video games are for everyone.

Modifié par MoosenLoosen, 03 juin 2013 - 02:30 .

[Milan92]

Even beter idea. Don't put both genders on the cover at all.

Just place the Inquisitor symbol or something, but please don't place a person in the middle of the cover again with a weapon in trying to look badass.

Modifié par Milan92, 03 juin 2013 - 02:30 .

[Trikormadenadon]

EJ107 wrote...

Trikormadenadon wrote...

Considering it only takes about 2 seconds to find the create new ID button I'd say not many played male shep by mistake...although apparently the OP did.

The problem is that "create new ID" is so mind-numbingly vague it could mean absolutely anything, from "Rename this defualt male protagonist to bob" to "Create new user account". The majority of people might not even realise you have the ability to change the protagonists appearance, let alone their gender. 

Compare it to Dragon Age 2's:




If nothing else at least it forces the player to make a conscious decision from the very beginning about what gender they want to be- and shoves in the plays face that the game supports protagonists of both gender.

This is true, but all it takes to find out for sure is the press of a single button....and then presto "Hey I can be female!"

I knew yiou could play female before I got the game because my history with BW games, but even if I hadn't, I definitely would have pressed on create new id before starting just to find out what it did...

[KingRoxas]

MoosenLoosen wrote...

I Like Cats And wrote...

p1013 wrote...

As a female gamer, I'd really like to see more representation of woman protagonists in games in GENERAL, not just on box art. I don't think putting a woman on the cover is going to hurt sales of a highly anticipated game, and I'd like to know that I'm being recognized by the industry. Woman make up half of the video game market now, we're out here, and we just want to be represented actively, instead of being relegated to the back cover or as a 3/4 shot behind the male protagonist.

Females definitely dont make up half of all gamers, it might be closer if you include casual games and stuff like iphone games.

Actually, yes we do.

Love the fact that you can't see what gender plays what genre of games. (Who plays Social Games the most, who plays "Regular" games the most etc).

Modifié par Kingroxas, 03 juin 2013 - 02:35 .

[Trikormadenadon]

Milan92 wrote...

Even beter idea. Don't put both genders on the cover at all.

Just place the Inquisitor symbol or something, but please don't place a person in the middle of the cover again with a weapon in trying to look badass.

Having no person on the cover would likely be ideal but...

Just out of curiosity, if they did put a person on the cover, what would you have them do if not ûtting them in the middle, holding a weapon and trying to look badass?

[I Like Cats And]

MoosenLoosen wrote...

I Like Cats And wrote...

MoosenLoosen wrote...

I Like Cats And wrote...

p1013 wrote...

As a female gamer, I'd really like to see more representation of woman protagonists in games in GENERAL, not just on box art. I don't think putting a woman on the cover is going to hurt sales of a highly anticipated game, and I'd like to know that I'm being recognized by the industry. Woman make up half of the video game market now, we're out here, and we just want to be represented actively, instead of being relegated to the back cover or as a 3/4 shot behind the male protagonist.

Females definitely dont make up half of all gamers, it might be closer if you include casual games and stuff like iphone games.

Actually, yes we do.

Casual games doe.....they don't really care about Mass Effect box covers.

Do you really want to do this? Really?

What's the difference between "entry level" social media gaming and an RPG? There's none. The genre is different, yes, there's a plot in one and lots of vegetables in the other. Social media games have passionate communities just like other "real" games do. I don't see Farmville making a stiff-lipped adult cry with grief, but you need to drop the elitism, which is rooted in their accessibility and the persistent and very false belief that "real gaming" is exclusive, when really, it's not. Mass Effect and Dragon Age might be more emotionally involved and more detailed, but unless you're playing professionally in tournaments, they're both casual games. 
Whether or not you install them, if you play them on console, if they make you cry or you can have a relationship doesn't constitute a "real game" and does not differentiate from a "casual game". You can divide by genre and therefore audience, but there are many "real gamers" who play social media games and vice versa. You can't separate the two.
The only thing that differentiates those two is a flimsy line drawn by "real gamers" who feel that their exclusive haven has been invaded by middle aged women on facebook. It's juvenile and it's unnecessary. Video games are for everyone.

But the thing is gaming has been infiltrated. Even Anita Sarkeesian said that games were off putting to women because they were too complex, and as she has so many drones following her I can only assume many agree with that. Look at Skyrim, it's dumbed down to the point of being pretty much a big budget casual game. I don't need developers targeting that demographic (at least not with franchises like ELder Scrolls, Dragon Age, etc.). And I know it's not all women who fit that glove, but to say women are 50% of gamers, well that's just an abuse of a statistic.

[Milan92]

Trikormadenadon wrote...

Milan92 wrote...

Even beter idea. Don't put both genders on the cover at all.

Just place the Inquisitor symbol or something, but please don't place a person in the middle of the cover again with a weapon in trying to look badass.

Having no person on the cover would likely be ideal but...

Just out of curiosity, if they did put a person on the cover, what would you have them do if not ûtting them in the middle, holding a weapon and trying to look badass?

Well what do you think of this.



So much detail.

[TheChris92]

I Like Cats And wrote...

Youre also like My Little Pony so you don't exactly speak for the normal 20 year old male. Video game boxes don't matter, if you want it a better world go actually support a real subject that matters. Gender equality (in the US) is more a manufactured issue, modern day feminism is more a mareketing tool. Go feed some starving kids, shut down puppy mills, protest for longer pedophile convictions.

But apparently they do, when users like yourself insists on the fact that it simply won't sell because reasons. 
There are lots of ways to market your game and ensuring sales, without having to change the boxart for the sales alone. Levine chose to sell the game as something it wasn't, which just seems weird -- Elizabeth is a rather essential character in BioShock Infinite, so relegating her to the back cover insult's the gamer's intelligence and diminishes her character a bit.  The emotional connection to her has been blatanly emphazied in all of the gameplay trailers, demos, in the writing and presentation -- Yet they chose to stuck her on the back cover. Naughty Dog did the opposite and chose to sell their game sticking with the focus on Ellie as being the true main character ot it -- I'm sure that having Ellie in the front, because she's the center of the story, won't damage this game's sales.

Modifié par TheChris92, 03 juin 2013 - 02:42 .

[katiebour]

EJ107 wrote...

Trikormadenadon wrote...

Considering it only takes about 2 seconds to find the create new ID button I'd say not many played male shep by mistake...although apparently the OP did.

The problem is that "create new ID" is so mind-numbingly vague it could mean absolutely anything, from "Rename this defualt male protagonist to bob" to "Create new user account". The majority of people might not even realise you have the ability to change the protagonists appearance, let alone their gender. 

Compare it to Dragon Age 2's:




If nothing else at least it forces the player to make a conscious decision from the very beginning about what gender they want to be- and shoves in the players face that the game supports protagonists of both gender.

Yes, exactly.  DA:O and DA2 did a much better job than the original ME in making it very clear (in the game CC, at least) that you could play as a woman.  Judging from the cover on DA2, though, you wouldn't have any idea that f!Hawke existed.

[Trikormadenadon]

Milan92 wrote...

Trikormadenadon wrote...

Milan92 wrote...

Even beter idea. Don't put both genders on the cover at all.

Just place the Inquisitor symbol or something, but please don't place a person in the middle of the cover again with a weapon in trying to look badass.

Having no person on the cover would likely be ideal but...

Just out of curiosity, if they did put a person on the cover, what would you have them do if not ûtting them in the middle, holding a weapon and trying to look badass?

Well what do you think of this.



So much detail.

Fair enough except I meant what if they did put A person (meaning the protagonist, either male or female).

[Bayonet Hipshot]

I don't know...Sigh....It took me about 0.5 second on ME to click on create alternate ID and even faster for DA. & also for some reason, I never really look at the box art for more than 3 seconds, I only cared about the stuff inside it. 

People seem to forget this old proverb :- Don't judge a book by its cover. 

Similarly:- Don't judge a game by its box art cover. 

Also, I honestly think if we do a survey of dedicated/hardcore gamers, the overwhelming majority of them will be men. The statistic that 47% of women are gamers takes into account of those who play Angry Birds, Farmville, etc. 

Think I am joking? Look at games specifically. Look at CoD, BF, TES, TWS, C&C, Civ, DoTA, TF2 etc. Look at the gender demographics in there. I bet you the majority will be men. Not women. 

If you want even more evidence, look at professional gaming. Which sex is the most prominent? Professional gaming is about skills and talent, not about sex/gender. Men. Not women.

Fact of the matter is if you factor out the casual gamers, the majority of gamers are men. Worldwide. Not just in USA & Canada. Not just in USA & Europe. 

& that is why most box art featurs men. Simple. Does that mean all box art feature men. No. When it is relevant to put a woman, it will be there. Tomb Raider for example. 

[Darth Death]

katiebour wrote...

And no, I don't want to see another fem!companion on the box.  World of Thedas had Morrigan, which is cool, but we don't play as Morrigan.  

You can play as Morrigan since she's a party member; for the rest that's been stated, I'll offer my personal opinion on the matter.

Having women on the front of a videogame box is irrelevant for two reasons:

First reason: I can't speak for everyone, but I'd imagine most people don't base their judgement when deciding to buy a game upon its box cover. If the game is good, then it's good. Box covers don't contribute much to a custom's conscious, especially if the customer had already mind up his/her verdict to which game they're going to buy ahead of time. Now, a psychologist can come in this thread & most likely prove me wrong about how artwork on a videogame box can mess with an individual's psyche, but the point I'm trying to convey is the idea of gamers focusing their attention on interior substance rather than exterior nonsense (unless proven offensive). I don't want to use the word common sense, but it seems I'm stating the obvious. 

Second reason: Being mindful, this is indeed a BioWare game, so unequivocally they'll be a wonderful feature called character creation (sorry if this sentence came off a little sarcastic). With such, default characters can be easily disregarded & forgotten. Since we (gamers) have the ability to decide whether to use it or not, our protagonist may appear vastly different from others. Having a female "default" protagonist in front of a box means very little to the overall customize made in-game(somewhat relating to my "first reason"). I'd imagine most female gamers wouldn't concern themselves if a woman isn't presented on a box cover as long as they're able to play a female within the game.

Having women appearing on box covers can actually be a double edged sword in some incidences, depending on what's shown.            

Modifié par Darth Death, 03 juin 2013 - 02:38 .

[KingRoxas]

The Sin wrote...
Don't judge a game by its box art cover. 

Also, I honestly think if we do a survey of dedicated/hardcore gamers, the overwhelming majority of them will be men. The statistic that 47% of women are gamers takes into account of those who play Angry Birds, Farmville, etc. 

Think I am joking? Look at games specifically. Look at CoD, BF, TES, TWS, C&C, Civ, DoTA, TF2 etc. Look at the gender demographics in there. I bet you the majority will be men. Not women. 

If you want even more evidence, look at professional gaming. Which sex is the most prominent? Professional gaming is about skills and talent, not about sex/gender. Men. Not women.

Fact of the matter is if you factor out the casual gamers, the majority of gamers are men. Worldwide. Not just in USA & Canada. Not just in USA & Europe. 

& that is why most box art featurs men. Simple. Does that mean all box art feature men. No. When it is relevant to put a woman, it will be there. Tomb Raider for example. 

[WildOrchid]

TheChris92 wrote...
Naughty Dog did the opposite and chose to sell their game sticking with the focus on Ellie as being the true main character ot it. 

And now I have a lot of respect for Naughty Dog. They did what most developers should've done: to ignore marketing's stupid reasons.

[Milan92]

Trikormadenadon wrote...

Milan92 wrote...

Trikormadenadon wrote...

Milan92 wrote...

Even beter idea. Don't put both genders on the cover at all.

Just place the Inquisitor symbol or something, but please don't place a person in the middle of the cover again with a weapon in trying to look badass.

Having no person on the cover would likely be ideal but...

Just out of curiosity, if they did put a person on the cover, what would you have them do if not ûtting them in the middle, holding a weapon and trying to look badass?

Well what do you think of this.



So much detail.

Fair enough except I meant what if they did put A person (meaning the protagonist, either male or female).

Oh then I would say Female, simply because there are too few boxarts with female characters on it.

[KiwiQuiche]

Tomb Raider is a lousy example; she was purely made to be a male fantasy.

[MoosenLoosen]

I Like Cats And wrote...

MoosenLoosen wrote...

I Like Cats And wrote...

MoosenLoosen wrote...

I Like Cats And wrote...

p1013 wrote...

As a female gamer, I'd really like to see more representation of woman protagonists in games in GENERAL, not just on box art. I don't think putting a woman on the cover is going to hurt sales of a highly anticipated game, and I'd like to know that I'm being recognized by the industry. Woman make up half of the video game market now, we're out here, and we just want to be represented actively, instead of being relegated to the back cover or as a 3/4 shot behind the male protagonist.

Females definitely dont make up half of all gamers, it might be closer if you include casual games and stuff like iphone games.

Actually, yes we do.

Casual games doe.....they don't really care about Mass Effect box covers.

Do you really want to do this? Really?

What's the difference between "entry level" social media gaming and an RPG? There's none. The genre is different, yes, there's a plot in one and lots of vegetables in the other. Social media games have passionate communities just like other "real" games do. I don't see Farmville making a stiff-lipped adult cry with grief, but you need to drop the elitism, which is rooted in their accessibility and the persistent and very false belief that "real gaming" is exclusive, when really, it's not. Mass Effect and Dragon Age might be more emotionally involved and more detailed, but unless you're playing professionally in tournaments, they're both casual games. 
Whether or not you install them, if you play them on console, if they make you cry or you can have a relationship doesn't constitute a "real game" and does not differentiate from a "casual game". You can divide by genre and therefore audience, but there are many "real gamers" who play social media games and vice versa. You can't separate the two.
The only thing that differentiates those two is a flimsy line drawn by "real gamers" who feel that their exclusive haven has been invaded by middle aged women on facebook. It's juvenile and it's unnecessary. Video games are for everyone.

But the thing is gaming has been infiltrated. Even Anita Sarkeesian said that games were off putting to women because they were too complex, and as she has so many drones following her I can only assume many agree with that. Look at Skyrim, it's dumbed down to the point of being pretty much a big budget casual game. I don't need developers targeting that demographic (at least not with franchises like ELder Scrolls, Dragon Age, etc.). And I know it's not all women who fit that glove, but to say women are 50% of gamers, well that's just an abuse of a statistic.

Please don't compare all female gamers to Anita Sarkeesian.

Gaming hasn't been "infiltrated", you ninny. Gaming IS for everyone and it always has been. You're fooling yourself if you believe otherwise. You don't even have to play Skyrim if you don't want to!
There will ALWAYS be games which are less in-depth than others. Some people don't like to get involved emotionally or morally when they're winding down and THAT'S OKAY. Some people do! That's okay too.
There is always going to be a market for basic shooters whether they are about shooting terrorists or setting zombie elves on fire under the northern lights, just as there is always going to be a market for emotionally stimulating RPGs like Mass Effect and Dragon Age.

I do, however, fail to see how I'm abusing a statistic by stating it where it is relevant.

[NorwegianPirate]

Trikormadenadon wrote...

Having no person on the cover would likely be ideal but...

Just out of curiosity, if they did put a person on the cover, what would you have them do if not ûtting them in the middle, holding a weapon and trying to look badass?

Were it up to me, they would be trying to eat a giant cake with their hands tied behind their backs and their friends drunkenly cheering them on in the background.

[Trikormadenadon]

WildOrchid wrote...

TheChris92 wrote...
Naughty Dog did the opposite and chose to sell their game sticking with the focus on Ellie as being the true main character ot it. 

And now I have a lot of respect for Naughty Dog. They did what most developers should've done: to ignore marketing's stupid reasons.

Marketing departments don`t just come to these comclusions arbitrarily. A lot of time and money is spent on focus groups to find out which ads are most positively responded toward and they go with that.

[Trikormadenadon]

NorwegianPirate wrote...

Trikormadenadon wrote...

Having no person on the cover would likely be ideal but...

Just out of curiosity, if they did put a person on the cover, what would you have them do if not ûtting them in the middle, holding a weapon and trying to look badass?

Were it up to me, they would be trying to eat a giant cake with their hands tied behind their backs and their friends drunkenly cheering them on in the background.

Day 1 purchase for me right there!!!

[Ianamus]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Tomb Raider is a lousy example; she was purely made to be a male fantasy.

Actually the box art for the latest tomb raider game is a very good example of box art done right. It may still be "badass person brandishing weapon", but at least it treats her like it treats the male "badass weapon wielding" protagonists.

Modifié par EJ107, 03 juin 2013 - 02:48 .

[KiwiQuiche]

Trikormadenadon wrote...

WildOrchid wrote...

TheChris92 wrote...
Naughty Dog did the opposite and chose to sell their game sticking with the focus on Ellie as being the true main character ot it. 

And now I have a lot of respect for Naughty Dog. They did what most developers should've done: to ignore marketing's stupid reasons.

Marketing departments don`t just come to these comclusions arbitrarily. A lot of time and money is spent on focus groups to find out which ads are most positively responded toward and they go with that.

What, like ME3's awesome "The best place for new players to jump in!" advertising?

[Trikormadenadon]

Milan92 wrote...

Trikormadenadon wrote...

Milan92 wrote...

Trikormadenadon wrote...

Milan92 wrote...

Even beter idea. Don't put both genders on the cover at all.

Just place the Inquisitor symbol or something, but please don't place a person in the middle of the cover again with a weapon in trying to look badass.

Having no person on the cover would likely be ideal but...

Just out of curiosity, if they did put a person on the cover, what would you have them do if not ûtting them in the middle, holding a weapon and trying to look badass?

Well what do you think of this.



So much detail.

Fair enough except I meant what if they did put A person (meaning the protagonist, either male or female).

Oh then I would say Female, simply because there are too few boxarts with female characters on it.

Yeah, thats not what I meant either.
What would you have them be doing in the cover art if not holding a sword trying to look badass?

[KiwiQuiche]

EJ107 wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Tomb Raider is a lousy example; she was purely made to be a male fantasy.

Actually the box art for the latest tomb raider game is a very good example of box art done right. 

Yeah, the latest one. All the others have her sprinting about in short-shorts with an obsene chest not to mention her origins.