700 réponses à ce sujet

[Trikormadenadon]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Trikormadenadon wrote...

WildOrchid wrote...

TheChris92 wrote...
Naughty Dog did the opposite and chose to sell their game sticking with the focus on Ellie as being the true main character ot it. 

And now I have a lot of respect for Naughty Dog. They did what most developers should've done: to ignore marketing's stupid reasons.

Marketing departments don`t just come to these comclusions arbitrarily. A lot of time and money is spent on focus groups to find out which ads are most positively responded toward and they go with that.

What, like ME3's awesome "The best place for new players to jump in!" advertising?

LOL. True it was a bad place for new players to jump in, but I suppose they did the best they could...

[WildOrchid]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Tomb Raider is a lousy example; she was purely made to be a male fantasy.

Not anymore. The new Lara Croft is far more than just "male fantasy"

[Bfler]

Here's a cover with a female Inquisitor:

[KingRoxas]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

EJ107 wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Tomb Raider is a lousy example; she was purely made to be a male fantasy.

Actually the box art for the latest tomb raider game is a very good example of box art done right. 

Yeah, the latest one. All the others have her sprinting about in short-shorts with an obsene chest not to mention her origins.

Don't we live now, and not in the past?

[KiwiQuiche]

Trying to put Lara as always being a good strong female protagonist is inaccurate; it's only recently that she's been portrayed as not a sex symbol, but as a powerful person in her own right. Hence the "Booo, who wants a female lead shown in DAI" complaints to smash.

[Milan92]

Trikormadenadon wrote...

Milan92 wrote...

Trikormadenadon wrote...

Milan92 wrote...

Trikormadenadon wrote...

Milan92 wrote...

Even beter idea. Don't put both genders on the cover at all.

Just place the Inquisitor symbol or something, but please don't place a person in the middle of the cover again with a weapon in trying to look badass.

Having no person on the cover would likely be ideal but...

Just out of curiosity, if they did put a person on the cover, what would you have them do if not ûtting them in the middle, holding a weapon and trying to look badass?

Well what do you think of this.

*snip*

So much detail.

Fair enough except I meant what if they did put A person (meaning the protagonist, either male or female).

Oh then I would say Female, simply because there are too few boxarts with female characters on it.

Yeah, thats not what I meant either.
What would you have them be doing in the cover art if not holding a sword trying to look badass?

Ooh well, reading books, dancing and other cute things, of course. :happy:

[Fast Jimmy]

NO protagonist on the box, says this guy. I don't care if they are male, female or toaster.

If one of the biggest draws of the Dragon Age series is being able to create your own character and make decisions/choices as them, why on Earth would putting a set protagonist on the front be something any one would want?

[kinderschlager]

 have to agree with the OP, the femshep box art on ME3 was a pleasant surprise, please do a repeat for DA:I

[KingRoxas]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Trying to put Lara as always being a good strong female protagonist is inaccurate; it's only recently that she's been portrayed as not a sex symbol, but as a powerful person in her own right. Hence the "Booo, who wants a female lead shown in DAI" complaints to smash.

So it didn't evolve in the direction you want then?

[Plaintiff]

The Sin wrote...
People seem to forget this old proverb :- Don't judge a book by its cover. 

Similarly:- Don't judge a game by its box art cover. 

Most proverbs are nonsense, and this one is no exception. Covers are deliberately designed to convey the information that will atract the esired audience. Looking at a cover tells you plenty about what's inside.

[Trikormadenadon]

Milan92 wrote...

Trikormadenadon wrote...

Milan92 wrote...

Trikormadenadon wrote...

Milan92 wrote...

Trikormadenadon wrote...

Milan92 wrote...

Even beter idea. Don't put both genders on the cover at all.

Just place the Inquisitor symbol or something, but please don't place a person in the middle of the cover again with a weapon in trying to look badass.

Having no person on the cover would likely be ideal but...

Just out of curiosity, if they did put a person on the cover, what would you have them do if not ûtting them in the middle, holding a weapon and trying to look badass?

Well what do you think of this.

*snip*

So much detail.

Fair enough except I meant what if they did put A person (meaning the protagonist, either male or female).

Oh then I would say Female, simply because there are too few boxarts with female characters on it.

Yeah, thats not what I meant either.
What would you have them be doing in the cover art if not holding a sword trying to look badass?

Ooh well, reading books, dancing and other cute things, of course. :happy:

Yeah. Male or female Inquisitor frolicking in the woods like a dalish elf while the mages and templars wipe each other out.....actually, I like it. To hell with those guys, lemme enjoy my life. 

[p1013]

Seboist wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

DAIII: Kitchen Chronicles

Fem protagonist definately belongs on the cover of that.

Sexism at its finest... *sigh*

[KingRoxas]

Plaintiff wrote...

The Sin wrote...
People seem to forget this old proverb :- Don't judge a book by its cover. 

Similarly:- Don't judge a game by its box art cover. 

Most proverbs are nonsense, and this one is no exception. Covers are deliberately designed to convey the information that will atract the esired audience. Looking at a cover tells you plenty about what's inside.

So a game can't have a **** cover and still be a good game?

Modifié par Kingroxas, 03 juin 2013 - 02:56 .

[KingRoxas]

p1013 wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

DAIII: Kitchen Chronicles

Fem protagonist definately belongs on the cover of that.

Sexism at its finest... *sigh*

Yeah... ofc.... not trolling/sarcasm at all...

Modifié par Kingroxas, 03 juin 2013 - 03:29 .

[kinderschlager]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

NO protagonist on the box, says this guy. I don't care if they are male, female or toaster.

If one of the biggest draws of the Dragon Age series is being able to create your own character and make decisions/choices as them, why on Earth would putting a set protagonist on the front be something any one would want?

we already know no ACTUAL origins, so my guess is another protaganist bit, hence the thread

[Trikormadenadon]

Plaintiff wrote...

The Sin wrote...
People seem to forget this old proverb :- Don't judge a book by its cover. 

Similarly:- Don't judge a game by its box art cover. 

Most proverbs are nonsense, and this one is no exception. Covers are deliberately designed to convey the information that will atract the esired audience. Looking at a cover tells you plenty about what's inside.

Yeah except the proverb really means, "Even if you don't like the cover, read it anyways because you might find you really like it."

[syllogi]

Ya know, I keep hearing the "common knowledge" that women who play video games are *just* casual gamers, but is dismissing that demographic, and saying that they wouldn't be a viable consumer for Bioware's games actually true?

I have never played Farmville, but I have spent *at least* $2500, over several years, each, on the Sims franchise of games, and my World of Warcraft subscription. Statistically, both of those games have been played by at least forty percent women. Imagine if all of those women, with all of their money, had stayed away from the Sims games and WoW. Yeah, the marketing campaigns for both games probably didn't target women directly, but they didn't alienate women, either.

I, personally, buy most of my games digitally, on PC, so box art isn't a big deal, but I like to see marketing that shows the female version of the player character, because that's who I am going to play. Lately I've also wished that the games I play, especially Bioware games, had more merchandise geared towards female player characters (like lithographs, posters, etc.), so while I'm not as concerned about the box art, any art that depicts the female version of the player character would be appreciated.

I mean, I understand not wanting to spend money on marketing and merchandise that Bioware thinks won't sell, but in my experience, female Bioware fans are dedicated, and willing to open their wallets, if given the opportunity. If all we see on merch is the DA3 version of Default Garrett Hawke, I know that I'd pass.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

LadyMalstroem wrote...
Female gamers are really not that hard to find. I'm female, most of my friends are female, and most of them game in some way. I also didn't meet them through gaming in any way - they just happen to be gamers, like myself.

Well I must be dating the wrong type of girl because when they find out I'm a gamer all I get is "that is for children or nerrrrrrd"



and wow this thread escalated quickly.

Modifié par DinoSteve, 03 juin 2013 - 02:58 .

[keightdee]

 Y'all are an awfully predictable bunch. 

Here's my 2¢: Hi, I'm a woman. I play video games. A lot of video games. I sat on my dad's lap and watched him play Doom when I was 6-years-old. Since then, it's been a torrid love affair with an industry that's only recently begun to give half a care for my existence. I still love games. I love the Dragon Age franchise. If there is going to be a human protagonist on the cover, please make it a woman. Or a man and a woman. Or a person of indeterminate gender. Or a logo. Please.

Walk the talk, be the change, etc.

Modifié par keightdee, 03 juin 2013 - 03:00 .

[KingRoxas]

syllogi wrote...

Ya know, I keep hearing the "common knowledge" that women who play video games are *just* casual gamers, but is dismissing that demographic, and saying that they wouldn't be a viable consumer for Bioware's games actually true?

Of course not. But would it be profitable to try to reach them?

Modifié par Kingroxas, 03 juin 2013 - 03:00 .

[kinderschlager]

DinoSteve wrote...

SgtElias wrote...

SergeantSnookie wrote...

 Maybe it's just me but I actually prefer cover art that doesn't have anybody on it at all.

Agreed. Not sure what it is, but I agree completely.

But still, anything's better than broody dudebro walking towards the screen.

Ugh, yes. My husband and I have started referring to this as "Rated D for Dudebro."

Reminds me of "right hand holds the gun left hand holds the orange"

that made me laugh:D

[Trikormadenadon]

syllogi wrote...

Ya know, I keep hearing the "common knowledge" that women who play video games are *just* casual gamers, but is dismissing that demographic, and saying that they wouldn't be a viable consumer for Bioware's games actually true?

I have never played Farmville, but I have spent *at least* $2500, over several years, each, on the Sims franchise of games, and my World of Warcraft subscription. Statistically, both of those games have been played by at least forty percent women. Imagine if all of those women, with all of their money, had stayed away from the Sims games and WoW. Yeah, the marketing campaigns for both games probably didn't target women directly, but they didn't alienate women, either.

I, personally, buy most of my games digitally, on PC, so box art isn't a big deal, but I like to see marketing that shows the female version of the player character, because that's who I am going to play. Lately I've also wished that the games I play, especially Bioware games, had more merchandise geared towards female player characters (like lithographs, posters, etc.), so while I'm not as concerned about the box art, any art that depicts the female version of the player character would be appreciated.

I mean, I understand not wanting to spend money on marketing and merchandise that Bioware thinks won't sell, but in my experience, female Bioware fans are dedicated, and willing to open their wallets, if given the opportunity. If all we see on merch is the DA3 version of Default Garrett Hawke, I know that I'd pass.

Now see this is completely different here. Cover art in my opinion does not really matter. Not for DA3. Most people who played 1 and 2 will buy 3 regardless of it's art. But merchandising...now we get to the meat of it. Most definitely should be geared toward both men and women.

[keightdee]

Also, A+ work to resident jerk offs on confirming the adage that comments on any content directly addressing sexism invariably justify feminism.

[katiebour]

I Like Cats And wrote...

But the thing is gaming has been infiltrated. Even Anita Sarkeesian said that games were off putting to women because they were too complex, and as she has so many drones following her I can only assume many agree with that. Look at Skyrim, it's dumbed down to the point of being pretty much a big budget casual game. I don't need developers targeting that demographic (at least not with franchises like ELder Scrolls, Dragon Age, etc.). And I know it's not all women who fit that glove, but to say women are 50% of gamers, well that's just an abuse of a statistic.

Wow.  Ok.  There are some pretty big assumptions going on here.

Your Assumption #1:  Games are too complex for women.  They need them dumbed down so they can enjoy them.  Attracting these kinds of female gamers will lead to a diminished gaming experience for everyone because game quality will plummet to appeal to the least common denominator- women that game.

Your Assumption #2:  Women who play casual games don't play "real" games, and aren't "real" gamers.

Your Assumption #3:  Statistics exaggerate the percentage of women who play games, because everyone knows the gaming audience is mostly men.

I don't even know where to begin.  

I guess the only thing I can say is that, in my own personal experience, most of the women under the age of 40 that I know play or have played video games at one point or another.  

In my personal experience, many women enjoy games of strategy, games that require thought and dexterity to master.  

In my personal experience, at least half of the people I interacted with while playing WoW and using voice clients such as Ventrilo or TS proved to be women, and proved to be excellent at leading raids, coordinating fights, tanking, speccing characters for max DPS or damage mitigation or what have you, as well as healing, either with HoTs or with group heals, keeping groups of 40 people alive and simultaneously watching aggro, maybe throwing in a DoT every now and then.

In my personal experience, most of the people I interact with now on a daily basis and talk with about the Mass Effect and Dragon Age fandoms are women.  Many of them enjoy PC gaming as well as console gaming and often install mods.

In my personal experience, about a third of the people I know who play social games on Facebook are men.  And those that play, either women or men, do so because they are out of the house, away from either a PC or a console, and because they can play social games on their cell phone.  It's more a matter of convenience than an issue of women preferring social games to adventure/RPG/strategy games.

That's my personal experience, and perhaps it differs from yours.  But via Tumblr I have met women from Australia, from Great Britain, from Spain, from Germany, from all over America, from Canada, and we have all connected over gaming.  My best friend, who lives in DC with her husband, is the one who introduced me to Dragon Age.  She games more than her husband does.

We really aren't that rare.  The talented, skilled, dedicated female gamer exists, in large numbers, and we matter.  We vote with our wallets.  We buy games of all kinds, whether social or strategy or FPS or RPG or MMO, and we rock the hell out of them.  And we deserve representation as well.

[doublecake]

I'm not sure what I can add here - people are giving wonderful arguments that I'm not sure I could add to, but I guess another voice in agreement can't hurt. Hi. I'm a woman. I play a lot of video games. I'd love it if my existence and the existence of women like me could be acknowledged by putting a woman protagonist on the box art for a change.