DinoSteve wrote...
SgtElias wrote...
Ugh, yes. My husband and I have started referring to this as "Rated D for Dudebro."
Reminds me of "right hand holds the gun left hand holds the orange"
Modifié par Kingroxas, 03 juin 2013 - 03:05 .
SergeantSnookie wrote...
DinoSteve wrote...
GenericEnemy wrote...
SergeantSnookie wrote...
Maybe it's just me but I actually prefer cover art that doesn't have anybody on it at all. Like this.
i agree. a more fancy version of this is all i want:
Do not like, would rather a dragon or something, or maybe templers and mages fighting each other.
Maybe make the Inquisition symbol bigger, and have mages and Templars fighting reflecting on its eye. To be all symbolic about the Inquisition seeing all or something.
Or they could just do this.
The Sin wrote...
Reznore57 wrote...
I don't think it's about opression , The Sin.
And it's not about hating man at all.
It's just male are heroes , there's countless stories about them , they're the poster boys of adventures etc..
And often females are just in stories to help the male hero achieve whatever...
It's a bit sad for women .
I was reading a book about mythology months ago , and well the big role for women was motherhood , or getting kidnapped , or waiting for husband hero to finish his super world shattering business.
Sure. So why aren't the majority of the women posters here advocating for swappable box art covers ? Why do we have posters calling for men to go and kill themselves if they have a differing opinion ?
The Sin wrote...
I don't know...Sigh....It took me about 0.5 second on ME to click on create alternate ID and even faster for DA. & also for some reason, I never really look at the box art for more than 3 seconds, I only cared about the stuff inside it.
People seem to forget this old proverb :- Don't judge a book by its cover.
Similarly:- Don't judge a game by its box art cover.
Also, I honestly think if we do a survey of dedicated/hardcore gamers, the overwhelming majority of them will be men. The statistic that 47% of women are gamers takes into account of those who play Angry Birds, Farmville, etc.
Think I am joking? Look at games specifically. Look at CoD, BF, TES, TWS, C&C, Civ, DoTA, TF2 etc. Look at the gender demographics in there. I bet you the majority will be men. Not women.
If you want even more evidence, look at professional gaming. Which sex is the most prominent? Professional gaming is about skills and talent, not about sex/gender. Men. Not women.
& that is why most box art featurs men. Simple. Does that mean all box art feature men. No. When it is relevant to put a woman, it will be there. Tomb Raider for example.
Modifié par LadyMalstroem, 03 juin 2013 - 03:05 .
Modifié par Bfler, 03 juin 2013 - 03:10 .
p1013 wrote...
I certainly don't feel any animosity towards male gamers, and I would still purchase a game with a male protagonist on the cover. I just want to be able to point to a game and say "That represents me. That's my avatar on the cover." instead of having to associate with a male protagonist every damn time.
LadyMalstroem wrote...
Yeah, 'cause the professional gaming scene is not at all a hostile environment for women.
Modifié par Kingroxas, 03 juin 2013 - 03:51 .
p1013 wrote...
The Sin wrote...
Reznore57 wrote...
I don't think it's about opression , The Sin.
And it's not about hating man at all.
It's just male are heroes , there's countless stories about them , they're the poster boys of adventures etc..
And often females are just in stories to help the male hero achieve whatever...
It's a bit sad for women .
I was reading a book about mythology months ago , and well the big role for women was motherhood , or getting kidnapped , or waiting for husband hero to finish his super world shattering business.
Sure. So why aren't the majority of the women posters here advocating for swappable box art covers ? Why do we have posters calling for men to go and kill themselves if they have a differing opinion ?
I don't think anyone is saying that men need to go kill themselves because they disagree. I think the general annoyance and frustration that's being expressed (and I'm feeling it, you'd best believe) is because a lot of the male posters in this thread are being 1) flippant, 2) derogatory, or 3) sexist with their posts.
I certainly don't feel any animosity towards male gamers, and I would still purchase a game with a male protagonist on the cover. I just want to be able to point to a game and say "That represents me. That's my avatar on the cover." instead of having to associate with a male protagonist every damn time.
I'd be okay with a flippable cover. I'd also like to see equal copies of the game ship with the male or female protagonist facing out, instead of just the male protag on the front, with the option to show the female if you want.
Guest_The Wolf Man_*
.EJ107 wrote...
The Wolf Man wrote...
MoosenLoosen wrote...
The Wolf Man wrote...
They should go one step further and put a black woman on the box.
I agree.
The black female population is completely excluded from video games. Absolutely NOTHING is marketed toward them, not even a little.
How many non-white men do we get on the covers of games, let alone women?
LadyMalstroem wrote...
How are DA and ME franchises where putting a woman on the cover is not relevant?
Modifié par Kingroxas, 03 juin 2013 - 03:15 .
Guest_The Wolf Man_*
.katiebour wrote...
LoonySpectre wrote...
*cough* Isabela? *cough*A woman of color as the default hero would be amazing
Isabela is not the hero. She is a companion and potential LI, and the default LI from the marketing and trailers.
katiebour wrote...
LarryDavid wrote...
- 47% of all gamers being women means that there are still about 12% more male gamers.
- Why would anyone compare the amount of adult female gamers with the amount of non-adult male gamers, besides of being able to write something like : ... female gamers... more than .... male gamers.
- For simplicity assuming that the online and offline gaming community contain the same number of gamers and that they are mutually exclusive, the observation that two-thirds of the online gaming communty is female means that there are >2.5 times more male than female players in the offline gaming community.
Anyways, these statistics (and the statistics from those websites) are completely irrelevant. Only statistics about the audience DA targets are relevant and the effect the frontcover has on their expected sales.
If a female protagonist on the box had no influence on the revenue, I have no problem with it. If it would increase sales, I support your claim. If not, I hope never to see a female protagonist on the box of a DA game.
Your math is off. If 47% of gamers are women, then 53% are men. That's a difference of 6%, not 12%.
The reason the number of female adult gamers is compared to teenaged male gamers is because teenaged male gamers are the stereotypical audience to which video games are "supposed to" appeal, since conventional wisdom holds that they are the people who play games the most. This statistic disproves that, showing that there are more adult female gamers than the stereotypical "target audience" of teenaged boys.
Assuming that online and offline gamers are mutually exclusive is a big assumption to make. Most people I know who have played MMOs or Facebook games play other offline games as well.
Overall statistics about the gaming market ARE relevant, because they show that the audience of people who play and buy video games is changing. The 2012 ESA study said that 48% of frequent video game purchasers are women. The market has changed, and to see more recognition of that in game advertising would a) promote gender equality in media andprobably sell more games to women. Both of those things are good things.
I want Bioware to sell more games, because I think they're a great, awesome, inclusive company and they make really fun games. I want to support both of those things. Bioware has been awesome about bucking traditional gender stereotypes in their games, not only with fem!protagonists, but also with powerful, assertive, awesome female characters like Isabela and Aveline.
And I think if they put their fem!protag on the box next to man!protag, not as a sex symbol or a love interest but as a powerful female avatar in her own right, they're more likely to appeal to the ever-broadening market of women who game.
Go look at the DA website:
http://dragonage.bioware.com/
Go watch the trailers for DA:O and DA2. Where are the f!Wardens? Where is f!Hawke?
If you were a woman and you saw that, would you think that those were games that would allow you to play as a woman? Would you feel welcome? Would you think this is a story about a woman being the heroine, about a woman saving the world/universe? Both games can be played that way (woman-as hero.) But neither advertises that fact in their trailers or box art, and that kind of sucks.
Mass Effect is pretty much the same. Sheploo everywhere and f!Shep shunted off into corners here and there as a palliative.
I went to the bookstore a few weeks back, found the Mass Effect Universe artbook, and flipped through it. And there was f!Shep, in all her glory-
In the very back.
I'm tired of it. I want the iconic character that celebrates my identity to be celebrated as much as her male counterpart. I don't want to see her in the back of the artbook, like a last-minute thought. I want to see her in a trailer, kicking ass and taking names.
I know I probably won't get all that. But for now, I'd be thrilled just to see fem!protag on the damned cover for a change.
Plaintiff wrote...
Most proverbs are nonsense, and this one is no exception. Covers are deliberately designed to convey the information that will atract the esired audience. Looking at a cover tells you plenty about what's inside.The Sin wrote...
People seem to forget this old proverb :- Don't judge a book by its cover.
Similarly:- Don't judge a game by its box art cover.
WildOrchid wrote...
And now I have a lot of respect for Naughty Dog. They did what most developers should've done: to ignore marketing's stupid reasons.
Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 03 juin 2013 - 03:20 .
The Wolf Man wrote...
EJ107 wrote...
The Wolf Man wrote...
MoosenLoosen wrote...
The Wolf Man wrote...
They should go one step further and put a black woman on the box.
I agree.
The black female population is completely excluded from video games. Absolutely NOTHING is marketed toward them, not even a little.
How many non-white men do we get on the covers of games, let alone women?
The day a black hero is finally presented, you can guarantee it won't be female.
Modifié par Kingroxas, 03 juin 2013 - 03:23 .
What?DinoSteve wrote...
Do you know what I don't understand?
Darth Death wrote...
What?DinoSteve wrote...
Do you know what I don't understand?
Guest_Jayne126_*
And even if, chances are that he/she dies first anyway.The Wolf Man wrote...
Lol, none that I can think of WHATsoever. The day a black hero is finally presented, you can guarantee it won't be female.
Jayne126 wrote...
And even if, chances are that he/she dies first anyway.The Wolf Man wrote...
Lol, none that I can think of WHATsoever. The day a black hero is finally presented, you can guarantee it won't be female.
Kingroxas wrote...
LadyMalstroem wrote...
How are DA and ME franchises where putting a woman on the cover is not relevant?
It is relevant, but he/the thread was not talking about Bioware series did he/they? It's (thread) are about all game covers for all kinds of genres.
WittingEight65 wrote...
Jayne126 wrote...
And even if, chances are that he/she dies first anyway.The Wolf Man wrote...
Lol, none that I can think of WHATsoever. The day a black hero is finally presented, you can guarantee it won't be female.
LadyMalstroem wrote...
...And? He said that when it's relevant to put a woman on the box, she will be there, but clearly that's not the case for ME and DA, save ME3 and its reversible cover (if you look away from digital copies and all the advertising on this site, all fronted by men).
Modifié par Kingroxas, 03 juin 2013 - 03:45 .
Guest_The Wolf Man_*
I Like Cats And wrote...
But the thing is gaming has been infiltrated. Even Anita Sarkeesian said that games were off putting to women because they were too complex, and as she has so many drones following her I can only assume many agree with that. Look at Skyrim, it's dumbed down to the point of being pretty much a big budget casual game. I don't need developers targeting that demographic (at least not with franchises like ELder Scrolls, Dragon Age, etc.). And I know it's not all women who fit that glove, but to say women are 50% of gamers, well that's just an abuse of a statistic.MoosenLoosen wrote...
I Like Cats And wrote...
MoosenLoosen wrote...
I Like Cats And wrote...
p1013 wrote...
As a female gamer, I'd really like to see more representation of woman protagonists in games in GENERAL, not just on box art. I don't think putting a woman on the cover is going to hurt sales of a highly anticipated game, and I'd like to know that I'm being recognized by the industry. Woman make up half of the video game market now, we're out here, and we just want to be represented actively, instead of being relegated to the back cover or as a 3/4 shot behind the male protagonist.
Females definitely dont make up half of all gamers, it might be closer if you include casual games and stuff like iphone games.
Actually, yes we do.
Casual games doe.....they don't really care about Mass Effect box covers.
Do you really want to do this? Really?
What's the difference between "entry level" social media gaming and an RPG? There's none. The genre is different, yes, there's a plot in one and lots of vegetables in the other. Social media games have passionate communities just like other "real" games do. I don't see Farmville making a stiff-lipped adult cry with grief, but you need to drop the elitism, which is rooted in their accessibility and the persistent and very false belief that "real gaming" is exclusive, when really, it's not. Mass Effect and Dragon Age might be more emotionally involved and more detailed, but unless you're playing professionally in tournaments, they're both casual games.
Whether or not you install them, if you play them on console, if they make you cry or you can have a relationship doesn't constitute a "real game" and does not differentiate from a "casual game". You can divide by genre and therefore audience, but there are many "real gamers" who play social media games and vice versa. You can't separate the two.
The only thing that differentiates those two is a flimsy line drawn by "real gamers" who feel that their exclusive haven has been invaded by middle aged women on facebook. It's juvenile and it's unnecessary. Video games are for everyone.
Modifié par The Wolf Man, 03 juin 2013 - 03:39 .
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