700 réponses à ce sujet

[Pups_of_war_76]

Why is it that we even need a male protagonist, again?
Most male gamers are pretty casual. I'm sure they don't care whether they are represented.

Modifié par Pups_of_war_76, 03 juin 2013 - 03:41 .

[FKA_Servo]

What's amazing is that people are actually offended by the notion that the female protagonist might get top billing. I think she should, for once, if they're going to put a face on the character at all.

I'm firmly in the "no iconic protagonist" otherwise. I think Bioware's games will still sell themselves no matter what, but if they're worried, I'm certain that EA can throw together a compelling ad campaign without an "iconic" face.

[Babtest]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

It's not gonna happen. I don't really mind female protagonist on the box, but as one of Bioware staffs stated, the box design and marketing are made to appeal to those who don't know the game, not the fans themselves. Many males don't like to play as a female and if they see a game they have never played before have a female on it, a lot of them may not pick it up. Personally though, I don't want any protagonist on the box since the game is about RP and creating your own character. I'm not a fan of having an official face. I would like for them to have either the dragons or some kinds of symbol as the main focus of the box.

Nobody starts out as a fan, everyone is drawn in for one reason or another.
But why should the guys who haven't played the game yet be more catered to than the women? And please don't tell me it's because more men play videogames, because that is simply not true.

And a kickass female protagonist would stand out between the  MANLY-ARR-GRR Dude WHo Has A Gun and Woman With Huge Boobs And Broken Spine Shoving Ass At You, who seem to populate way to many covers. I usually don't even register those games on the shelf anymore, they are just background.

Modifié par Babtest, 03 juin 2013 - 03:51 .

[garrusfan1]

well if they have the protaginist on the front it will likely be a male version but the female version might be on the back. after all issabela did put a reference to baby got back when she was in the fade. I guess that the female protaginist will get the back cover since baby got back.

[garrusfan1]

Babtest wrote...

Battlebloodmage wrote...

It's not gonna happen. I don't really mind female protagonist on the box, but as one of Bioware staffs stated, the box design and marketing are made to appeal to those who don't know the game, not the fans themselves. Many males don't like to play as a female and if they see a game they have never played before have a female on it, a lot of them may not pick it up. Personally though, I don't want any protagonist on the box since the game is about RP and creating your own character. I'm not a fan of having an official face. I would like for them to have either the dragons or some kinds of symbol as the main focus of the box.

Nobody starts out as a fan, everyone is drawn in for one reason or another.
But why should the guys who haven't played the game yet be more catered to than the women? And please don't tell me it's because more men play videogames, because that is simply not true.

And a kickass female protagonist would stand out between the  MANLY-ARR-GRR Dude WHo Has A Gun and Woman With Huge Boobs And Broken Spine Shoving Ass At You, who seem to populate way to many covers. I usually don't even register those games on the shelf anymore, they are just background.

a broken spine lol. also female gamers are almost 50% of video game customers but there still are idiots who think they are weird for pllaying video games. and yes those covers are becoming back rounds. well the man at least

[Plaintiff]

Kingroxas wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

The Sin wrote...
People seem to forget this old proverb :- Don't judge a book by its cover. 

Similarly:- Don't judge a game by its box art cover. 

Most proverbs are nonsense, and this one is no exception. Covers are deliberately designed to convey the information that will atract the esired audience. Looking at a cover tells you plenty about what's inside.

So a game can't have a **** cover and still be a good game?

Artistic quality is not what I was talking about. It's a purely subjctive issue.

Nevertheless, covers convey plenty of information that tells me at a glimpse whether or not a game, film or book is likely to contain elements that interest me.

[LadyMalstroem]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

It's not gonna happen. I don't really mind female protagonist on the box, but as one of Bioware staffs stated, the box design and marketing are made to appeal to those who don't know the game, not the fans themselves. Many males don't like to play as a female and if they see a game they have never played before have a female on it, a lot of them may not pick it up. Personally though, I don't want any protagonist on the box since the game is about RP and creating your own character. I'm not a fan of having an official face. I would like for them to have either the dragons or some kinds of symbol as the main focus of the box.

I keep seeing this argument everywhere and, for me, it raises a lot of questions. Wouldn't it also work the other way? That having a woman on the box would attract more female players who wouldn't have picked up the game otherwise? Hell, aren't there men out there who are a little tired of seeing buff dudes on game covers everywhere and would welcome a change? Why do we only take into account the opinion of male gamers who avoid everything that has to do with women at any cost? Are there really so many of those male gamers? What is it about seeing a woman fight that turns so many people off, according to marketers?

[garrusfan1]

Pups_of_war_76 wrote...

Why is it that we even need a male protagonist, again?
Most male gamers are pretty casual. I'm sure they don't care whether they are represented.

honestly most of my first playthroughs are as a male character but after that is is a mix. but they need to have both

[garrusfan1]

LadyMalstroem wrote...

Battlebloodmage wrote...

It's not gonna happen. I don't really mind female protagonist on the box, but as one of Bioware staffs stated, the box design and marketing are made to appeal to those who don't know the game, not the fans themselves. Many males don't like to play as a female and if they see a game they have never played before have a female on it, a lot of them may not pick it up. Personally though, I don't want any protagonist on the box since the game is about RP and creating your own character. I'm not a fan of having an official face. I would like for them to have either the dragons or some kinds of symbol as the main focus of the box.

I keep seeing this argument everywhere and, for me, it raises a lot of questions. Wouldn't it also work the other way? That having a woman on the box would attract more female players who wouldn't have picked up the game otherwise? Hell, aren't there men out there who are a little tired of seeing buff dudes on game covers everywhere and would welcome a change? Why do we only take into account the opinion of male gamers who avoid everything that has to do with women at any cost? Are there really so many of those male gamers? What is it about seeing a woman fight that turns so many people off, according to marketers?

truthfully if anything men look at things with women on them first and would likely look at it and see what it is about. that said there are exceptions like lollipop chainsaw  most people wouldn't buy it because it looks so stupid

[KingRoxas]

Plaintiff wrote...

Artistic quality is not what I was talking about. It's a purely subjctive issue.

Nevertheless, covers convey plenty of information that tells me at a glimpse whether or not a game, film or book is likely to contain elements that interest me.

And how does it do that without you looking at the cover?

[SelphieFairy]

You know what's annoying about the whole argument about how "most of the women who play games only play social games like farmville" bs? It's probably MORE likely that the majority of male gamers only play FIFA and COD. I bet there are just as many "casual" male gamers as there are female; the difference being they focus on mindless fps multiplayers and sports instead puzzles or farming. But otherwise, they aren't the target demographic for character-driven RPGs like Dragon Age 3 anymore than casual female gamers are. I know more male gamers overall, but all the people I know IRL who are hardcore bioware fans are female.

[garrusfan1]

Plaintiff wrote...

Kingroxas wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

The Sin wrote...
People seem to forget this old proverb :- Don't judge a book by its cover. 

Similarly:- Don't judge a game by its box art cover. 

Most proverbs are nonsense, and this one is no exception. Covers are deliberately designed to convey the information that will atract the esired audience. Looking at a cover tells you plenty about what's inside.

So a game can't have a **** cover and still be a good game?

Artistic quality is not what I was talking about. It's a purely subjctive issue.

Nevertheless, covers convey plenty of information that tells me at a glimpse whether or not a game, film or book is likely to contain elements that interest me.

to be honest the box art being bad can hurt a game later on when people don't know anything about it and see the cover. I didn't buy mass effect because I thought it would be so stupid because of the cover I ended up buying it with one of those gamestop things where they let you buy two used games and get one free.

[Plaintiff]

Trikormadenadon wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

The Sin wrote...
People seem to forget this old proverb :- Don't judge a book by its cover. 

Similarly:- Don't judge a game by its box art cover. 

Most proverbs are nonsense, and this one is no exception. Covers are deliberately designed to convey the information that will atract the esired audience. Looking at a cover tells you plenty about what's inside.

Yeah except the proverb really means, "Even if you don't like the cover, read it anyways because you might find you really like it."

Except you probably won't, because, once again, covers are deliberately designed to convey information about the contents. And if a cover doesn't appeal to you, it's because it reveals elements of the narrative that will not be appealling to you. Covers are for judging, their entire pupose is to help you, the consumer, figure out whether or not you'll like what's inside.

For example:



https://d202m5krfqbp...5542l/19691.jpg"

Right away, you can tell that these two books are nothing alike. You can tell which one is a romance. You should at least be able to hazard a guess at which one takes place on a submarine. You can make a few shots in the dark about particular plot points that will show up, and what the characters are like, and you'll probably be correct.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 03 juin 2013 - 04:11 .

[Beerfish]

Putting a female as the main protag on the cover would be no problem for people that already know the game and the franchise but would be for people not familiar with it most likely. I don't see why they can't show some imagination and put both on one front cover or one on the front, the other on the back.

[FKA_Servo]

The Wolf Man wrote...

Babtest wrote...

Nobody starts out as a fan, everyone is drawn in for one reason or another.
But
why should the guys who haven't played the game yet be more catered to
than the women? And please don't tell me it's because more men play
videogames, because that is simply not true.

And a kickass female
protagonist would stand out between the  MANLY-ARR-GRR Dude WHo Has A
Gun and Woman With Huge Boobs And Broken Spine Shoving Ass At You, who
seem to populate way to many covers. I usually don't even register those
games on the shelf anymore, they are just background.

 

I often wonder if it's an intelligence level issue. Marketing trolls, as I call them, aren't catering to those who think critically. Male or female. They're catering to the droves of slack-jawed yokels who only give their attention to things that look shiny enough. Whether those  things are big shiny guns or bug shiny boobs - there you have it.

The problem is that gamers tend not to be below average intelligence. Make  jokes, heh, sure but the reality is that most video games attract a crowd of puzzle solvers - people who love to play games, think critically, strategize, and what have you. It's not a past time for drooling apes, but most gaming company market heads think it is. That's the problem. The fans are being treated like idiots. Most of the time these ridiculous marketing tactics become likewhite noise to us - we are desensitized by the sight of shredded dudes with guns and DD cup
heroines with their vaginas slagged across the box cover. 

Oh sure, I'm positive there are some d-bags who pick up the game and say (with a Keanue Reeves inflection), "Whooooooaaaa this game looks badass...." and he/she (likely he) might take it home and play it. I think gamers of that caliber are in the minority. Marketing departments need to realize this and start paying attention to their real
audience...

And their real audience - in the majority - are intelligent people of either gender. Ridiculous game covers are an  insult to men and women alike. All it says to us is, "Hey stupid!! Look over here..."

This is all terrific, and bears quoting and repeating.

Modifié par TommyServo, 03 juin 2013 - 04:24 .

[Plaintiff]

Kingroxas wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Artistic quality is not what I was talking about. It's a purely subjctive issue.

Nevertheless, covers convey plenty of information that tells me at a glimpse whether or not a game, film or book is likely to contain elements that interest me.

And how does it do that without you looking at the cover?

If there is no cover, then that tells me I'm at a bootleg DVD stall in Thailand, or possibly Brazil, and that any movie I'm likely to buy there would function better as a coaster.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 03 juin 2013 - 04:16 .

[FKA_Servo]

Beerfish wrote...

Putting a female as the main protag on the cover would be no problem for people that already know the game and the franchise but would be for people not familiar with it most likely. I don't see why they can't show some imagination and put both on one front cover or one on the front, the other on the back.

The fact that it's a "problem" is a problem. One way I can think of rectifying this would be for a big name publisher to actually place female protagonists on the covers of their AAA titles. I'm pretty tired of seeing a sea of John Shepards on any given gamestore shelf.

[WildOrchid]

Battlebloodmage wrote...
Many males don't like to play as a female and if they see a game they have never played before have a female on it, a lot of them may not pick it up.

So does the women who don't like to play males.
That's why in a game where you have gender options, the cover should have male/female protag.

[MoosenLoosen]

The Wolf Man wrote...

Babtest wrote...

Battlebloodmage wrote...

It's not gonna happen. I don't really mind female protagonist on the box, but as one of Bioware staffs stated, the box design and marketing are made to appeal to those who don't know the game, not the fans themselves. Many males don't like to play as a female and if they see a game they have never played before have a female on it, a lot of them may not pick it up. Personally though, I don't want any protagonist on the box since the game is about RP and creating your own character. I'm not a fan of having an official face. I would like for them to have either the dragons or some kinds of symbol as the main focus of the box.

Nobody starts out as a fan, everyone is drawn in for one reason or another.
But why should the guys who haven't played the game yet be more catered to than the women? And please don't tell me it's because more men play videogames, because that is simply not true.

And a kickass female protagonist would stand out between the  MANLY-ARR-GRR Dude WHo Has A Gun and Woman With Huge Boobs And Broken Spine Shoving Ass At You, who seem to populate way to many covers. I usually don't even register those games on the shelf anymore, they are just background.

 

I often wonder if it's an intelligence level issue. Marketing trolls, as I call them, aren't catering to those who think critically. Male or female. They're catering to the droves of slack-jawed yokels who only give their attention to things that look shiny enough. Whether those things are big shiny guns or bug shiny boobs - there you have it.

The problem is that gamers tend not to be below average intelligence. Make jokes, heh, sure but the reality is that most video games attract a crowd of puzzle solvers - people who love to play games, think critically, strategize, and what have you. It's not a past time for drooling apes, but most gaming company market heads think it is. That's the problem. The fans are being treated like idiots. Most of the time these ridiculous marketing tactics become like white noise to us - we are desensitized by the sight of shredded dudes with guns and DD cup heroines with their vaginas slagged across the box cover. 

Oh sure, I'm positive there are some d-bags who pick up the game and say (with a Keanue Reeves inflection), "Whooooooaaaa this game looks badass...." and he/she (likely he) might take it home and play it. I think gamers of that caliber are in the minority. Marketing departments need to realize this and start paying attention to their real audience...

And their real audience - in the majority - are intelligent people of either gender. Ridiculous game covers are an insult to men and women alike. All it says to us is, "Hey stupid!! Look over here..."

I'm going to have to disagree with you there. Gamers who play Dragon Age or Mass Effect aren't necessarily more intelligent for liking games that are more in-depth or are made so you can immerse yourself emotionally to a soliptic degree.

The problem with this mindset is that it excludes people who aren't all the way up there (presumably with the geniuses such as yourself, of course) and it kind of imposes an elitism onto the community that's really toxic and discourages people from making themselves a part of it. While the veterans are the body of a fan community new people who bring new perspectives, new fan content and new ideas keep it alive and we need to encourage that.

I can't begin to describe how many people might be too anxious to associate with other members of a community because they as a majority are too enraptured with their own intelligence to let their guard down and associate freely with people who may not be as clever as others. That's how a fanbase begins to stagnate, and it'd be a tragic thing to see this fandom become.

Modifié par MoosenLoosen, 03 juin 2013 - 04:21 .

[KingRoxas]

Plaintiff wrote...

Kingroxas wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Artistic quality is not what I was talking about. It's a purely subjctive issue.

Nevertheless, covers convey plenty of information that tells me at a glimpse whether or not a game, film or book is likely to contain elements that interest me.

And how does it do that without you looking at the cover?

If there is no cover, then that tells me I'm at a bootleg DVD stall in Thailand, or possibly Brazil, and that any movie I'm likely to buy there would function better as a coaster.

But you said that just a glimpse of a cover would tell you if they are "likely to contain elements that interest me" without looking at the Picture/art. And i continue to ask, how? Also, what are you doing at a DVD stall in Thailand buying bootlegs. Do you regularly visit these?...(to come up with this argument)

Modifié par Kingroxas, 03 juin 2013 - 04:23 .

[garrusfan1]

WildOrchid wrote...

Battlebloodmage wrote...
Many males don't like to play as a female and if they see a game they have never played before have a female on it, a lot of them may not pick it up.

So does the women who don't like to play males.
That's why in a game where you have gender options, the cover should have male/female protag.

uh most men don't care if there are two options and very few care about that unless they are just dumb

[Plaintiff]

WildOrchid wrote...

Battlebloodmage wrote...
Many males don't like to play as a female and if they see a game they have never played before have a female on it, a lot of them may not pick it up.

So does the women who don't like to play males.
That's why in a game where you have gender options, the cover should have male/female protag.

But those women aren't very common.

Like every under-served minority in any industry, women have gotten used to not having any options, and have resigned themselves to taking what they can get. As a result, statistics show that many women will play as a man, while the opposite cannot be said to be true, because female protagonists don't sell as well.

That said, there are multiple reasons that female protagonists might sell poorly (for instance, they might get less marketing, because publishers have already presumed that it's a waste of time), and if those issues were addressed, the sales gap might shorten significantly. The games industry is culpable for only looking at the what, and never the why.