Aller au contenu

Photo

Put fem!Protagonist on the box!


  • Ce sujet est fermé Ce sujet est fermé
700 réponses à ce sujet

#376
Jedi Master of Orion

Jedi Master of Orion
  • Members
  • 6 912 messages

katiebour wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Posted Image

www.youtube.com/watch


I haven't played this game, so I can't speak as to who this character is.  But I watched the vid you linked, and here's what I saw.

Fem!character swears vengeance.  Male!character (who the camera has spent more time on than any other character in this preview thus far) tells her to "Get it together, darling."  Because obviously she needs man!character to call the shots, with a cute little endearment, no less.  He then leads the way, and tosses her a gun (she has no agency without him.)  And then they kiss.

Swap it around.  Have fem!character the star of the preview (with the camera spending the bulk of the time in the preview on her), finding m!character.  Maybe she tells him "Get it together, darling," and then tosses him a gun.  Then he makes googly eyes at her and they kiss.

No?


Except she's the main character in the game. The player controls her for 90% of the game and it's her story. The story's cutscenes are about her. It's all told from her perspective and that male character (who was the protagonist of the previous game) is absent for most of the game. I posted that one because it was an example of a female protagonist initiating affection.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 03 juin 2013 - 05:58 .


#377
Fast Jimmy

Fast Jimmy
  • Members
  • 17 939 messages
^

And, for the record, Kerrigan saves the dudebro from captivity, if my understanding of the game's plot is correct.

#378
p1013

p1013
  • Members
  • 12 messages

I Like Cats And wrote...

p1013 wrote...

As a female gamer, I'd really like to see more representation of woman protagonists in games in GENERAL, not just on box art. I don't think putting a woman on the cover is going to hurt sales of a highly anticipated game, and I'd like to know that I'm being recognized by the industry. Woman make up half of the video game market now, we're out here, and we just want to be represented actively, instead of being relegated to the back cover or as a 3/4 shot behind the male protagonist.


Females definitely dont make up half of all gamers, it might be closer if you include casual games and stuff like iphone games.


I'm not a "casual" gamer or someone who frequenty plays iPhone games, and assuming, based on my gender, that I am is misguided and ignorant. The study cited looked at a wide range of statistics, and I think looking at it will help you understand this arguement much more clearly.

#379
Exile Isan

Exile Isan
  • Members
  • 1 843 messages

katiebour wrote...
O.O you can?  /goes hunting for button to switch it

It's in the Edit Profile Information and then set Site Theme to Mass Effect 3 (Female).

#380
MerinTB

MerinTB
  • Members
  • 4 688 messages

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
I don't see any reason to put the protagonist on the box, at all. Particularly as long as we have any character customisation options.


This.  For a game that you can (at the very least) pick male or female, class, and appearance... it makes NO sense to me to have an iconic protagonist image.

I like how KoA:R advertised.  You saw many different "protag" designs in a given trailer.

This is outside of the lack of female protag argument, granted, but for a game where you pick gender, class, and appearance, an iconic look seems like a speed bump and not a bonus.

#381
Volus Warlord

Volus Warlord
  • Members
  • 10 697 messages
Female Box Art?

PRE-ORDER CANCELLED!

#382
Kaidan Fan

Kaidan Fan
  • Members
  • 2 555 messages

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I don't see any reason to put the protagonist on the box, at all. Particularly as long as we have any character customisation options.


I agree with this statement 100%.

#383
katiebour

katiebour
  • Members
  • 232 messages

Exile Isan wrote...

katiebour wrote...
O.O you can?  /goes hunting for button to switch it

It's in the Edit Profile Information and then set Site Theme to Mass Effect 3 (Female).


Excellent.  Too bad that there's no Marian theme.  But one theme out of nine featuring a female protag ain't bad, right?

Oh, wait.  That's part of the point of the thread.  :D

#384
brushyourteeth

brushyourteeth
  • Members
  • 4 418 messages

Volus Warlord wrote...

Female Box Art?

PRE-ORDER CANCELLED!



I LOL'd.  Posted Image


Seriously, nothing about this issue is going to change until male gamers realize that the "status quo" is what it is because game companies see their male demographic as cavemen who are irrationally put off by women they can't subject and sexualize (I'm surprised they got away with having Bethany, to be honest). Bonus negativity if a female character might be as strong as a man (I'm impressed that they got away with Aveline, Flemeth, Meredith, Cassandra, etc. to be honest).

Triple negativity if a female protagonist is as important as a male. Oh, it's fine as long as you don't have to see it. Those girly-girls can take 10 hours trying to figure out which button opens your inventory -- the developers just shouldn't make you have to feel like they're equals.

Seriously, I'm less pissed off about this attitude as a woman than I would be if I were a man.

There's nothing about it that glorifies maleness. It might give some guys what they think they want, but it sure doesn't pay the gender as a whole any compliments.

Modifié par brushyourteeth, 03 juin 2013 - 06:11 .


#385
MerinTB

MerinTB
  • Members
  • 4 688 messages

katiebour wrote...
 Watch this:
THE CREEPY CULL OF FEMALE PROTAGONISTS


Also - that was awesome.

Screw publishers.  Screw them HARD.

#386
MerinTB

MerinTB
  • Members
  • 4 688 messages
Lastly -

having worked in market research for roughly five years, I can say it is all absolute BS. Absolute BS. It's like politicians with statistics - they take flawed data that was collected in unscientific ways and manipulate it to prove what they already believed.

#387
Guest_EntropicAngel_*

Guest_EntropicAngel_*
  • Guests
I don't really care.

It'd be nice. it's cool that FemShep is on my ME3 CE box. But it's nothing I get upset over.

I'd rather have a breathtaking image than just another profile shot.

#388
katiebour

katiebour
  • Members
  • 232 messages

WittingEight65 wrote...

katiebour wrote...

WittingEight65 wrote...

Uh...In ME1, if you read the 3rd page of the manual you can see that you can play as a woman.


READ THE MANUAL?!   THAT'S WHAT THE TUTORIAL STAGE IS FOR!

:lol:

I don't think I did ever read the manual.  How funny.


That's not Bioware's fault :).
Also, in ME2-3, if you put New Game, the first it ask is if you will play as a Male or Woman.


Yes, ME2 and ME3 did a lot better than ME1.

As for ME1- did you have to read the manual to page 3 to find out that you could play as a man?

Of course not.  Because man!Shep was on the box.  He was the default character on that first screen.

I'm not asking for fem!protag to replace man!protag.  I just want it to be as obvious that you can play as a woman as it is obvious that you can play as a man. 

#389
p1013

p1013
  • Members
  • 12 messages

Trikormadenadon wrote...

p1013 wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

I know alot of woman and do you know what games the play? The types of games like farmville and while these games are considered games and those women are considered gamers they are not the demographic who would be buying AAA titles.


One of my favorite games is Call of Duty. I played through Army of Two
and Gears of War with my husband at my urging. I've played and beaten
all of the God of War games, as well as games like Mass Effect (my
Shepard started in 1 and finished in 3) and Dragon Age. Broad
assumptions that women play games like Farmville (a game I've never
played and have never felt the urge to play) diminishes my place in the
gaming community and falsly represents my interests. I know I'm not the only woman gamer who enjoys FPS games or "traditionally" masculine types of games.

DinoSteve wrote...
Look at Biowares own data on ME3 the amount of  people playing as Sheploo far out weighs the amount playing as femshep.


I'm not against women on the cover all I'm saying is its bad business.


And how much of that is due to 1) Sheploo being on the cover and 2) being the default choice when you start the game? You cannot assume that more people play Sheploo because they want to, when that data wasn't collected in Bioware's study of the demographics of the game. There are mitigating circumstances here that haven't been analzyed.

You know what they say about assuming things.


Considering it only takes about 2 seconds to find the create new ID button I'd say not many played male shep by mistake...although apparently the OP did.


And if you're new to the franchise or to Bioware, how does "Create New ID" translate to "Create a new character?"

#390
Nole

Nole
  • Members
  • 961 messages

katiebour wrote...

WittingEight65 wrote...

katiebour wrote...

WittingEight65 wrote...

Uh...In ME1, if you read the 3rd page of the manual you can see that you can play as a woman.


READ THE MANUAL?!   THAT'S WHAT THE TUTORIAL STAGE IS FOR!

:lol:

I don't think I did ever read the manual.  How funny.


That's not Bioware's fault :).
Also, in ME2-3, if you put New Game, the first it ask is if you will play as a Male or Woman.


Yes, ME2 and ME3 did a lot better than ME1.

As for ME1- did you have to read the manual to page 3 to find out that you could play as a man?

Of course not.  Because man!Shep was on the box.  He was the default character on that first screen.

I'm not asking for fem!protag to replace man!protag.  I just want it to be as obvious that you can play as a woman as it is obvious that you can play as a man. 


As a fan of Bioware games, I knew that the protagonist could have been a man or a woman, like in every bioware game. And, please, if you really are of the ones that enjoy RPGs, it is obvious that you will choose the customize option which will give you as a first option to choose between a man or a woman.

#391
Almariss

Almariss
  • Members
  • 5 messages

Nightdragon8 wrote...

I got a serious question, How many "females" not buy a game because there is not a male on the cover, or because there is a female on the cover?

because I would really love to see how many people honestly care about game cover art as "being the reason" for buying a game. because all the numbers aside, thats the REAL question here. and there is no poll that has been given as to "If ou see this on the cover will you buy it" sort of thing.

Cause as a gamer I could care less what the cover looks like. Its the same with CD's for music I could honeslty care less about the cover and more about the music.

I can't justify going out and saying "This cover looks pretty, I'll buy it!" and then listen to the music and find out I hate it.

If I wanna buy "Art" I wlll go out and find "Art" that I like and buy it.


This has a probably already been addressed by others, but I'm going to throw my 2 cents in anyway.  I am a female gamer and I buy games based on the art.  I'm the kind of person who judges books by their covers too, for what that's worth.  Despite really enjoying DA:O, I didn't buy DA2 for over a year after it came out, not because of reviews (honestly, I hadn't really read many), or because supposedly it biffed or whatever, but because of the game art.  Dragon Age was the first gaming franchise outside of Dark Ages of Camelot and Warhammer Online (which I only played because I was already familiar with the fluff from the table top game) that I actually got into, and I STILL was thrown off by the cover featuring only dude Hawke. 
Why?  Because the way the game is described (quoting here off the back of the game box) "You are Hawke, one of the few to survive..."   Because I was presented with that information and a graphic of a scruffy dude as the protag, I assumed that you could only play as that scruffy dude, a big difference between the desription and artwork for Origins.  The reason I eventually bought it- it was on sale dirt cheap at Target and I thought "Well, WTF, might as well give it a shot since I liked Origins.  I guess I can deal playing a dude, but I'm bummed because I liked creating my own female Wardens in the first one."
And that's a shame because actually, I like DA2 BETTER than Origins, and the big thing holding me back is that the game was presented soley through a male protagonist's lense, and not offering even a glimmer of a female protagonist, or the fact that the protagonist was whoever you wanted them to be.
Reasons I won't buy some of the games mentioned in the videos posted in the OP- because they come across as focused on some douchey dudebro shooting it up for the sake of calling it a video game, because apparently "that's what sells."  You know what also sells based on outdated marketing?  Fast food.  But video games AREN'T fast food, and we, as women ARE a growing demographic in the gaming industry, and therefore if gaming companies want to increase their sales and their audeience, then they need to learn to market more towards us as well.  Why?  Because THAT'S good marketing strategy.  Using the same old formulas over and over again isn't going to increase the market; it's going to severely restrict it, and frankly, companies are missing out on a huge source of income by not making an effort to target at least somewhat towards women.

That being said, I plan on buying DA3 regardless of what, or who, is on the cover because I'm invested in the storyline now, but I hope if they choose to feature a protag, they feature both, or just use the inquisitor's symbol or something.  Personally, I prefer when the games don't have the protags on the cover, because it allows for more imaginative thinking about the game for me.  I don't even care to have the NPC's on the cover (although I like the silhouettes of the NPC's they used on the DA2 cover.  I thought that was brilliant.  If they had left out dude Hawke, and had just the silhouettes, I would have bought the game much sooner than I did).

And generally speaking, I'm more fussed about the portrayal/presence of women in video games in general than I am the cover art of games.  The cover art is just a small thing compared to the bigger picture for me.  But still...baby steps.

#392
Dova

Dova
  • Members
  • 519 messages

BasilKarlo wrote...

I think the reversible male/female cover like ME3 had should be the norm for their games from now on. I would take it a step further though and make it a 50/50 split of male to female when packaging so both covers can be visible to consumers.

This. & At least FemShep got a trailer also. ;)

#393
p1013

p1013
  • Members
  • 12 messages

Kingroxas wrote...

syllogi wrote...

Ya know, I keep hearing the "common knowledge" that women who play video games are *just* casual gamers, but is dismissing that demographic, and saying that they wouldn't be a viable consumer for Bioware's games actually true?


Of course not. But would it be profitable to try to reach them?


It's always profitable to increase your target demographic. Why not market for both men and women? The arguement isn't to remove men from cover art, it's to represent women. I still like the idea of shipping out two versions of the game: one with a male, one with a female protagonist on the cover.

#394
Guest_EntropicAngel_*

Guest_EntropicAngel_*
  • Guests

BasilKarlo wrote...

I think the reversible male/female cover like ME3 had should be the norm for their games from now on. I would take it a step further though and make it a 50/50 split of male to female when packaging so both covers can be visible to consumers.


Wouldn't that be up to the retailers?

Modifié par EntropicAngel, 03 juin 2013 - 06:50 .


#395
KingRoxas

KingRoxas
  • Members
  • 367 messages

p1013 wrote...

Kingroxas wrote...

syllogi wrote...

Ya know, I keep hearing the "common knowledge" that women who play video games are *just* casual gamers, but is dismissing that demographic, and saying that they wouldn't be a viable consumer for Bioware's games actually true?


Of course not. But would it be profitable to try to reach them?


It's always profitable to increase your target demographic. 


But only if the demographic you are trying to reach have any desire to buy their products. (Imo, i seemed that syllogi meant that, "Is it true to say that the Casual gamers (social games was the example) would not be interested in Bioware games if there was marketing towards them", therefor i said that some would surely love their games, but would it be worth the advertisement?

Sorry if i got that wrong syllogi.

Modifié par Kingroxas, 03 juin 2013 - 06:56 .


#396
MerinTB

MerinTB
  • Members
  • 4 688 messages

EntropicAngel wrote...

BasilKarlo wrote...
I think the reversible male/female cover like ME3 had should be the norm for their games from now on. I would take it a step further though and make it a 50/50 split of male to female when packaging so both covers can be visible to consumers.


Wouldn't that be up to the retailers?


Uhm, it CAN be.  But, having worked at both EB Games and Gamestop, many retailers actually are selling space or are told by corporate which displays to put where.  So displays, how to show boxes, etc., are often decided by the publisher and not the retailer.  So, for example, if EA told Gamestop that for the ME3 display they wanted half male and half female box covers showing, Gamestop corporate would send a memo to all the store managers to set up the displays as such.

If it is a small, private store, yes, it is absolutely up to the retrailer.

Modifié par MerinTB, 03 juin 2013 - 07:02 .


#397
AngryFrozenWater

AngryFrozenWater
  • Members
  • 9 106 messages

MerinTB wrote...

Lastly -

having worked in market research for roughly five years, I can say it is all absolute BS. Absolute BS. It's like politicians with statistics - they take flawed data that was collected in unscientific ways and manipulate it to prove what they already believed.

Stop making sense! :lol:

#398
Guest_EntropicAngel_*

Guest_EntropicAngel_*
  • Guests

MerinTB wrote...

Uhm, it CAN be.  But, having worked at being EB Games and Gamestop, many retailers actually are selling space or are told by corporate which displays to put where.  So displays, how to show boxes, etc., are often decided by the publisher and not the retailer.  So, for example, if EA told Gamestop that for the ME3 display they wanted half male and half female box covers showing, Gamestop corporate would send a memo to all the store managers to set up the displays as such.

If it is a small, private store, yes, it is absolutely up to the retrailer.


I see.


Regardless of opinion on that idea, the concept of multiple covers is pretty cool. Personalization.

#399
Ryzaki

Ryzaki
  • Members
  • 34 423 messages
I'm just tired of seeing generic dude bro 101 on the cover. Rather just get a dragon/sword/whatever.

#400
Chanda

Chanda
  • Members
  • 3 195 messages
I wonder if the devs are reading this thread.