700 réponses à ce sujet

[Nightdragon8]

Himmelstor wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

Wouldn't sell. Google Kevin Levine box art for reasons why.


I'd like to see no one on the box art, well maybe some of the party NPCs.

Agreed.

I honestly don't look at the box art because 99% of the time it doesn't repersten the in game grafics of the game anyway.

Most of the time I look at the Game title. then I look at the back with the 'in game' pictures and the small descriptions they give. If its something I'm intreseted in then I look at the cost. If it's rather old I wont pay more than 20 for a title.

If the box doesn't have 'in game' pictures I generally wont buy it because more than likly its so bad that I honestly don't want to see it.

[Examurai]

Just do what they did with ME3 and have a double sided cover. One side male, other side female.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

katiebour wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

katiebour wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

Wouldn't sell. Google Kevin Levine box art for reasons why.


I'd like to see no one on the box art, well maybe some of the party NPCs.

Dragon Age is an established franchise.  It has a following that is panting at the door to pre-order as we speak.  They're still going to buy DA3 even if there's a fem!Protag on the box.

Also, did you watch the vids I linked?  The first one actually addresses Kevin Levine and Bioshock Infinite's box art.

Lastly, this is a problem.  I am a woman and this upsets me.  Everytime I go to Origin to boot up Mass Effect I see Sheploo.  Fem!Shep is nowhere to be seen.  Sheploo is all over the Mass Effect universe artbook- fem!Shep is in the back cover.

Stop relegating our female avatars (not companions, not romances, but our playable heroines- our AVATARS) to the back cover.  If you're gonna put m!protag on the box, put f!protag there too.

As for whether or not it will sell, well, that remains to be seen.  The first vid I linked talks about the chicken-and-egg problem of games with female avatars being given half the marketing funding that games with male avatars do.  

Try it and see.  At least put them both on the box if you're going to put either.

You are already a fan of Bioware games they are not trying to sell them to you nor are they trying to sell them to those who will preorder them, and it is a fact that a male protagonist on the cover art will attract more people to buy a the game than a female one would.
I'm not saying it is good thing or a bad thing all I'm saying is its good business, which has been proven time and time again, otherwise it wouldn't still be happening.

and its freaking box art don't be so freaking sensitive.

"and its freaking box art don't be so freaking sensitive."

No, dear, what it is is erasure of a female avatar.  Because obviously a woman can't save the world- it's going to take a man.  That's what the cover art with a male!protag tells us.  That's the attitude it reinforces.  And Bioware is in a position to help change that.

And your comment is something that women talking about gender issues in video games hear all the time.  "You're just sensitive/emotional."  "It's not really a problem."  "Stop complaining."  "Shut up and sit down."

And I'm telling you, as a woman gamer, that it is a problem.  It's a problem for all minorities- when was the last time you saw a dude-bro of color as the protag on video game box art?  It reinforces the idea that only white guys can save the world.  Throw a female LI on the front in some skin-tight clothing positioned behind heroic dudebro and suddenly the message is that only straight white guys can save the world.

And it's a problem that I'm hoping that my favorite video game company will see, acknowledge, and choose to act on.  Because they've already demonstrated that they're willing to push boundaries to promote inclusiveness, and it would thrill me down to the very bottom of my gamer heart to see fem!protag on the box, heroic savior of the universe, even if it's right next to her buddy male!protag, also savior of the universe.

Do you know what it tells me, company's want to sell as many games as possible and guys been the majority of gamers relate better to males, and not what you just wrote. Also I don't mean that you as a woman are being too sensitive, I mean you as a person are being too sensitive had you been a guy I'd have said the same thing, people who are waaaay to sensitive annoy the hell out of me.

I actually only just realised you are a woman, I never even looked at your name.

Modifié par DinoSteve, 03 juin 2013 - 08:16 .

[KingRoxas]

Chanda wrote...

Sure. Put a dragon on the box. That works.

Only if we get a reversible cover with a Drake on the other side.....

Modifié par Kingroxas, 03 juin 2013 - 08:16 .

[BadJustice]

I liked the ME3 where you can just flip the cover

[katiebour]

WittingEight65 wrote...

Sorry. Not going to happen.

Maybe, maybe not.  But if we don't ask, we'll never get it, right?

Sorta like the guy who prayed to God every night for 20 years to win the lotto.  Finally God talks to him one night and says "Help me out- buy a ticket!"



It's worth asking and at least making it clear why it's a problem.  Maybe it won't happen this year.  Maybe ten years, a hundred years from now, there will be both man!Protag and fem!Protag on the box, and there will be no one to tear them apart.

[katiebour]

Examurai1 wrote...

Just do what they did with ME3 and have a double sided cover. One side male, other side female.

I bought the game on Origin.  There's only one "cover" on the electronic version, and it features Sheploo.

[The Six Path of Pain]

Meh whatever /: Not a big deal in my honest opinion.

[katiebour]

DinoSteve wrote...

Do you know what it tells me, company's want to sell as many games as possible and guys been the majority of gamers relate better to males, and not what you just wrote. Also I don't mean that you as a woman are being too sensitive, I mean you as a person are being too sensitive had you been a guy I'd have said the same thing, people who are waaaay to sensitive annoy the hell out of me.

I actually only just realised you are a woman, I never even looked at your name.

"guys been the majority of gamers relate better to males, and not what you just wrote."

Actually 47% of gamers are women.

So yeah, it's a majority, but it's a slim one.  Why is it then that 47% of video game covers don't feature women?

Also let me quote this:

Forty-seven percent of all players are women, and women over 18 years of age are one of the industry's fastest growing demographics.[/list]Today, adult women represent a greater portion of the game-playing population (30 percent) than boys age 17 or younger (18 percent).[/list]Source:  http://www.theesa.co.../gameplayer.asp

Also female gamers make up two-thirds of the online gaming community, and play on average four hours more a week than men.  The average male player has been playing for 16 years- the average female player, for 12.

Modifié par katiebour, 03 juin 2013 - 08:31 .

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

katiebour wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

Do you know what it tells me, company's want to sell as many games as possible and guys been the majority of gamers relate better to males, and not what you just wrote. Also I don't mean that you as a woman are being too sensitive, I mean you as a person are being too sensitive had you been a guy I'd have said the same thing, people who are waaaay to sensitive annoy the hell out of me.

I actually only just realised you are a woman, I never even looked at your name.

"guys been the majority of gamers relate better to males, and not what you just wrote."

Actually 47% of gamers are women.

So yeah, it's a majority, but it's a slim one.  Why is it then that 47% of video game covers don't feature women?

Also let me quote this:

Forty-seven percent of all players are women, and women over 18 years of age are one of the industry's fastest growing demographics.[/list]Today, adult women represent a greater portion of the game-playing population (30 percent) than boys age 17 or younger (18 percent).[/list]Source:  http://www.theesa.co.../gameplayer.asp

I know alot of woman and do you know what games the play? The types of games like farmville and while these games are considered games and those women are considered gamers they are not the demographic who would be buying AAA titles.


Look at Biowares own data on ME3 the amount of  people playing as Sheploo far out weighs the amount playing as femshep.


I'm not against women on the cover all I'm saying is its bad business.

Modifié par DinoSteve, 03 juin 2013 - 08:43 .

[Nole]

47 and most of them play facebook games lol.
There's a reason 82% played alphamaleshep while only a 18% played femshep.

[Fredward]

WittingEight65 wrote...
47 and most of them play facebook games lol.
There's a reason 82% played alphamaleshep while only a 18% played femshep.

I'm a dude and I played alphafemaleshep.

[Kidd]

I highly welcome a Femquisitor on the box, for sure =)

katiebour wrote...

I haven't played this game, so I can't speak as to who this character is.  But I watched the vid you linked, and here's what I saw.

Sarah Kerrigan is an amazing character. In the first Starcraft, that is. She's not even a shell of her former self in SC2. In between the years that have passed in between the two game releases, the writers decided that it's best to weaken one of the most empowered yet flawed (she's very interesting) female characters of all time. It's honestly downright sickening.

If you're interested in an analysis of it all, here's a great link. Of course, considering how rife with major spoilers it is, it's best to keep out if you're at all interested in playing yourself. And I highly recommend you do play the original game; perhaps even with cheat codes if you're not that into RTS gameplay (I know I'm not).

Modifié par KiddDaBeauty, 03 juin 2013 - 08:46 .

[katiebour]

DinoSteve wrote...

I know alot of woman and do you know what games the play? The types of games like farmville and while these games are considered games and those women are considered gamers they are not the demographic who would be buying AAA titles.

So because the women you know play Farmville, you assume that most women play games like Farmville and only Farmville?

I've played Farmville.  I've also played all the ME games, all the DA games, Baldur's Gate 1 & 2, have been playing Civilization since 1993, spent untold hours playing Medieval:  Total War, pwned while playing Street Fighter, doled out my share of fatalities in Mortal Kombat, played both Diablo II and III, played Sim City from back when it was only in black and white up to now, bought all of the Sims games (1, 2, and 3) and most of the expansions, played WoW for three years and had a handful of max-level toons, play Guild Wars 2, played Metal Gear, owned and played games on the Atari, the original Nintendo, Super NES, N64, Wii, PS1, PS2, PS3, Xbox, Xbox 360, PC, even a Dreamcast, owned multiple versions of gameboys (including the very first one), played Portal, am an avid Skyrim gamer...  Would you like me to go on?

I don't find my experience as a female gamer of 25+ years that unique.  Most of the people I've connected to via the BSN and via Tumblr about games in general and Bioware games in particular are women.  Most of us are hardcore.

What I do find is that we are continually underestimated, pushed aside, ignored, and made fun of.  We get objectified as "booth babes" or that ridiculous cord-eating photo of a "gamer girl."  We get harassed when we get on our mics in an MMO.  We get told that girls only play certain types of games and that we're not "real gamers."  I call bullsh*t.

Modifié par katiebour, 03 juin 2013 - 08:48 .

[Renmiri1]

WittingEight65 wrote...

47 and most of them play facebook games lol.
There's a reason 82% played alphamaleshep while only a 18% played femshep.

Yup

[Nightdragon8]

.... lets not start the my % is better than your % game

As I have said, I could honeslty give a crap about box art. I have only bought 1 game because of the box art, and I quickly learned my lesson that don't trust box art. Just because it looks pretty doesn't mean the game is good.

[Sanunes]

As much as it would be nice to see some diversity instead of the "heroic male" archetype. The business caters to males at the age where anything outside the norm is something to be attacked or ignored and sadly the industry caters to that belief as well. Look at Remember Me and the hassle they had even making the game because its a female protagonist.

I see one of two things happening, one is they do the reversible cover like Mass Effect 3 or they don't have the character on the cover like Mass Effect 3 N7 Edition.

[katiebour]

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

I highly welcome a Femquisitor on the box, for sure =)

katiebour wrote...

I haven't played this game, so I can't speak as to who this character is.  But I watched the vid you linked, and here's what I saw.

Sarah Kerrigan is an amazing character. In the first Starcraft, that is. She's not even a shell of her former self in SC2. In between the years that have passed in between the two game releases, the writers decided that it's best to weaken one of the most empowered yet flawed (she's very interesting) female characters of all time. It's honestly downright sickening.

If you're interested in an analysis of it all, here's a great link. Of course, considering how rife with major spoilers it is, it's best to keep out if you're at all interested in playing yourself. And I highly recommend you do play the original game; perhaps even with cheat codes if you're not that into RTS gameplay (I know I'm not).

I prefer turn-based to real-time strategy- hearkens back to the hours I've spent glaring at family members over a Risk board.  But thanks for the link!

[Nole]

Renmiri1 wrote...

WittingEight65 wrote...

47 and most of them play facebook games lol.
There's a reason 82% played alphamaleshep while only a 18% played femshep.

Yup

Romances weren't really important for me at all. This is not Mass Effect: The Dating Game, after all.

[Fredward]

Sanunes wrote...
As much as it would be nice to see some diversity instead of the "heroic male" archetype. The business caters to males at the age where anything outside the norm is something to be attacked or ignored and sadly the industry caters to that belief as well.

Purely out of curiousity what age group is that?

[deerburn]

I like that you brought this up even tho I'm sure this topic gets discussed a lot on the bsn. I feel like people don't take this issue very seriously because it is just box art. But this kind of thing does impact how people perceive video games. I never would have played mass effect if I didn't know I could choose genders. I would have just watched my bf play it. IMO women just aren't represented very well in video games. the gaming industry seems to be mostly male dominated, but that will change in time. I think it's a good thing that Bioware has given the player a choice of gender in almost all their games and even though I have some problems with the way they've portrayed women, (for instance, edi's ******. wtf is that?) I respect that they try when it comes to female protagonists. Bioware has done a pretty good job with femshep imo, but I still think there is plenty of room for improvement. A fem protag on the cover would be a great start. I also agree that we don't even need have a protagonist on there, but I would love if bioware grew some ovaries and put a female protagonist on the cover for once. But that's just my perspective on it.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

katiebour wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

I know alot of woman and do you know what games the play? The types of games like farmville and while these games are considered games and those women are considered gamers they are not the demographic who would be buying AAA titles.

So because the women you know play Farmville, you assume that most women play games like Farmville and only Farmville?

I've played Farmville.  I've also played all the ME games, all the DA games, Baldur's Gate 1 & 2, have been playing Civilization since 1993, spent untold hours playing Medieval:  Total War, pwned while playing Street Fighter, doled out my share of fatalities in Mortal Kombat, played both Diablo II and III, played Sim City from back when it was only in black and white up to now, bought all of the Sims games (1, 2, and 3) and most of the expansions, played WoW for three years and had a handful of max-level toons, play Guild Wars 2, played Metal Gear, owned and played games on the Atari, the original Nintendo, Super NES, N64, Wii, PS1, PS2, PS3, Xbox, Xbox 360, PC, even a Dreamcast, owned multiple versions of gameboys (including the very first one), played Portal, am an avid Skyrim gamer...  Would you like me to go on?

I don't find my experience as a female gamer of 25+ years that unique.  Most of the people I've connected to via the BSN and via Tumblr about games in general and Bioware games in particular are women.  Most of us are hardcore.

What I do find is that we are continually underestimated, pushed aside, ignored, and made fun of.  We get objectified as "booth babes" or that ridiculous cord-eating photo of a "gamer girl."  We get harassed when we get on our mics in an MMO.  We get told that girls only play certain types of games and that we're not "real gamers."  I call bullsh*t.

I didn't mean only farmville and I don't think that all girls only play farmville, nor do I condone any type of harassment, I just meant that the growth of female gamers coincides with the growth of  farmville type games and there is nothing wrong with enjoying those types of games, nor is there anything wrong with women enjoying AAA type games, my point was companies will try to ship as many units as possible and it has been proven the best way to to this is with a male character on the box art, you have to remember that companies show groups of people which is made up of women and men, the box art before they use it and and most of them chose the one with the guy.

and I'm sorry if you think I'm implying you aren't a real gamer and women who play games aren't real gamers, I would love it if there where more women gamers, because I get the same reaction from every women I have ever dated when the find out I'm a gamer.

Modifié par DinoSteve, 03 juin 2013 - 09:07 .

[FINE HERE]

I honestly don't care about the box art. I'm more concerned with the gameplay, story and everything else I will spend more than a split second looking at.

But I do like the idea of fancy text over a pretty landscape instead of "guy looking 'cool' while walking towards camera." Really, all the dude bro covers are started to looking boring as they are all exactly the same.