700 réponses à ce sujet

[Ravensword]

Uh-oh.


Edit: they're already here, therefore:

Modifié par Ravensword, 04 juin 2013 - 02:01 .

[Rafiterman]

bobobo878 wrote...

katiebour wrote...
I haven't played this game, so I can't speak as to who this character is.  But I watched the vid you linked, and here's what I saw.
Fem!character swears vengeance.  Male!character (who the camera has spent more time on than any other character in this preview thus far) tells her to "Get it together, darling."  Because obviously she needs man!character to call the shots, with a cute little endearment, no less.  He then leads the way, and tosses her a gun (she has no agency without him.)  And then they kiss.
Swap it around.  Have fem!character the star of the preview (with the camera spending the bulk of the time in the preview on her), finding m!character.  Maybe she tells him "Get it together, darling," and then tosses him a gun.  Then he makes googly eyes at her and they kiss.
No?

The writing really took a nose dive in StarCraft II, I liked her better in Brood War. Here are the same two characters in that game.

bit.ly/ZpedXQ

For the sake of not starting a completely new argument on this thread (de-railing on the internet? Impossible!), I'll just say that not everyone feels that way. People, emotions and relationship are complicated, But this is still one the reasons why I love Blizzard games so much, Kerrigan is one of my favourite characters in video games. And it didn't even occur to me when she was on the box art of Heart of the Swarm that that was overtly strange or different same goes for when she kissed Raynor. And my guess would be Blizzard didn't think so either. Granted that's just a wild guess, but that's just my two cents.

[2Pac]

What Are Yall Going On about?

[Zubie]

This thread is great

[TheBlackBaron]

Rafiterman wrote...

For the sake of not starting a completely new argument on this thread (de-railing on the internet? Impossible!), I'll just say that not everyone feels that way. People, emotions and relationship are complicated, But this is still one the reasons why I love Blizzard games so much, Kerrigan is one of my favourite characters in video games. And it didn't even occur to me when she was on the box art of Heart of the Swarm that that was overtly strange or different same goes for when she kissed Raynor. And my guess would be Blizzard didn't think so either. Granted that's just a wild guess, but that's just my two cents.

Blizzard honestly doesn't have a great track record with this stuff, tbh. Wrath of the Lich King f*cked Jaina's character up in a way comparable to Metroid: Other M and Samus.

Sylvanas is still badass, at least.

[Inquisitor Recon]

alliance commander wrote...
What Are Yall Going On about?

The way your mere existence oppresses women and gays unless you feel guility 24/7. Now go feel bad somewhere else.

[AnomanderRake]

myrrhcat wrote...

Seboist wrote...

myrrhcat wrote...

Punching a dude who calls you delicate is a perfectly appropriate response. It simultaneously proves him wrong about you being delicate, and punishes him for being a sexist ****. It'll actually make him think twice about making sexist comments in the future, whereas walking away or reporting him will just leave him with a story to tell his friends.

What if said man responds with some "gender quality" by returning the punch?

Like I said before, he can try, but women can handle themselves in a fight, and he's a fool to try and start a fight with someone who just broke his nose.

The whole "but if you want gender equality, doesn't that mean men should be able to hit women???" thing is so played out. Completely missing the point.

Is 'the point' your sad little revenge fantasies?

[kmatthews]

I punched a guy in defense of his harassment, he didn't punch me back & I didn't face any charges. If he did punch back I could have defended myself. It happened, it's over, I don't care if you think it was wrong. Get over it.

[2Pac]

Inquisitor Recon wrote...

alliance commander wrote...
What Are Yall Going On about?

The way your mere existence oppresses women and gays unless you feel guility 24/7. Now go feel bad somewhere else.

-__-

[Ravensword]

I love threads like these; they're fun to read. However, can we at least go back on topic for a few pages before devolving into another argument on gender equality in order to keep the thread going?

[myrrhcat]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

myrrhcat wrote...

I remember that earlier in this thread, someone made the common (and utterly played-out joke) somewhere along the lines of "gee, you guys are so crazy to want equal representation for EVERYONE, why don't we just put a [black, albino, handicapped, transgender woman] on the cover?" Or whatever list of "minority attributes" they could think of off the top of their head.

The thing is, that'd be great to see. I know it's easy to forget when you're a regular vanilla-ass straight white dude, but people who belong to all of those demographics do exist... and you're not better or more important than them... and representing them isn't unrealistic at all. BECAUSE THEY EXIST.

Before this thread gets locked, I think it's interesting how much effort gets put into attempting to delegitimize this question, because I think the people who make these threads realize they don't have an answer for it.

When you start demanding equal representation for non-"dudebros" (again, I think it's wonderful how much this gets thrown around to stereotype male gamers), where do you draw the line? Shall we have one protaganist of each ethnicity that could be created or are in a country the game will be marketed in? Is one woman sufficient, or do we also need a woman of each race? Do we attempt to display transgender people as well? Can we take just "one of each" and use them to represent everybody, or do we also need to have all possible combinations? What about when sexuality enters the fray? Do you propose to have thirty or forty different versions of the same character on the cover, so that everybody is represented "equally"?

A cover displaying artwork or something besides a protaganist is sounding pretty good right now, isn't it? 

It's not that everything needs to be represented in one place. I'm not saying every single video game HAS TO feature one person of every race, every gender identity, every orientation, and so on. That would just get confusing, and probably would not be handled very respectfully.

We're talking about the big picture here. They don't all have to be represented in one place, but each one should be represented equally OVERALL, between all the media out there. Some video games should have men on the cover, some should have women on the cover, and some should have people of other genders on the cover. Same with race. And every other spectrum of humanity.

Equal representation is not hard, and it shouldn't feel forced. All you have to do is remember that there are a lot of different kinds of people out there, and occasionally swap out the generic white dude for something different.

(To be blunt, I don't give a **** about male gamers who complain that they're being "stereotyped." Please explain how being stereotyped is harmful to you. You have everything. You are the number one most pandered-to demographic. You are not reduced to a stereotype, you are practically considered the entire market for games. Enough is enough.)

[sandalisthemaker]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

myrrhcat wrote...

I remember that earlier in this thread, someone made the common (and utterly played-out joke) somewhere along the lines of "gee, you guys are so crazy to want equal representation for EVERYONE, why don't we just put a [black, albino, handicapped, transgender woman] on the cover?" Or whatever list of "minority attributes" they could think of off the top of their head.

The thing is, that'd be great to see. I know it's easy to forget when you're a regular vanilla-ass straight white dude, but people who belong to all of those demographics do exist... and you're not better or more important than them... and representing them isn't unrealistic at all. BECAUSE THEY EXIST.

Before this thread gets locked, I think it's interesting how much effort gets put into attempting to delegitimize this question, because I think the people who make these threads realize they don't have an answer for it.

When you start demanding equal representation for non-"dudebros" (again, I think it's wonderful how much this gets thrown around to stereotype male gamers), where do you draw the line? Shall we have one protaganist of each ethnicity that could be created or are in a country the game will be marketed in? Is one woman sufficient, or do we also need a woman of each race? Do we attempt to display transgender people as well? Can we take just "one of each" and use them to represent everybody, or do we also need to have all possible combinations? What about when sexuality enters the fray? Do you propose to have thirty or forty different versions of the same character on the cover, so that everybody is represented "equally"?

A cover displaying artwork or something besides a protaganist is sounding pretty good right now, isn't it? 

Ah, the slippery slope argument.
There doesn't have to be a million different covers of the same game.
There are millions of different games out there. Not all of them need to depict white men. Some can feature women. Others can feature a latino guy. Etc. 
When every game features the same group over and over, it gets tiresome.
Oh, and please don't call this "pandering."

Modifié par sandalisthemaker, 04 juin 2013 - 02:10 .

[Inquisitor Recon]

kmatthews wrote...

I punched a guy in defense of his harassment, he didn't punch me back & I didn't face any charges. If he did punch back I could have defended myself. It happened, it's over, I don't care if you think it was wrong. Get over it.

Impressive story. You know one time I punched a man in the chest and ripped out his cybernetic heart. He couldn't punch me back because he was sort of dead, but if he did I could have defended myself.

[ObserverStatus]

myrrhcat wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

myrrhcat wrote...
Punching a dude who calls you delicate is a perfectly appropriate response. It simultaneously proves him wrong about you being delicate, and punishes him for being a sexist ****. It'll actually make him think twice about making sexist comments in the future, whereas walking away or reporting him will just leave him with a story to tell his friends.

Um, I don't think that punching someone who calls you delciate is an appropriate response. Doing this would be considered an "assault" which is actually illegal under most state and local laws.

Just because something's illegal doesn't mean it's morally wrong. Like I said before, sexists deserve to have their noses broken. And while I'm at it, racists deserve to be dunked into tanks full of bees and homophobes deserve to have their armpit hairs plucked out one by one with tweezers. Physical pain is, in fact, a pretty merciful punishment for bigotry.

I'm just going to be nice and say that if someone takes it upon themself to use violence to punish bigots for making snippy remarks, said person deserves access to pschiatric counseling, so that they may learn to express their anger in a more constructive manner.

[TheBlackBaron]

myrrhcat wrote...

(To be blunt, I don't give a **** about male gamers who complain that they're being "stereotyped." Please explain how being stereotyped is harmful to you. You have everything. You are the number one most pandered-to demographic. You are not reduced to a stereotype, you are practically considered the entire market for games. Enough is enough.)

Oh, please, enough with the victim culture BS. You want people to take you seriously when you call for equality of representation, I suggest you not be a dirty hypocrite and get off on feeling superior to the "dudebros". 

Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 04 juin 2013 - 02:11 .

[Ravensword]

Okay, I think we all need to just stop typing, take a deep breath, count to ten, and go watch some porn.

[Fast Jimmy]

kmatthews wrote...

I punched a guy in defense of his harassment, he didn't punch me back & I didn't face any charges. If he did punch back I could have defended myself. It happened, it's over, I don't care if you think it was wrong. Get over it.

Irrational Games put a dudebro on the cover of Bioshock Infinite to get more sales, fans bought it up and the game was critically lauded. If they had received negative flak for it, they could have defended themselves. It happened, its over, they don't care if you think it was wrong. Get over it. 

Let's just not put any protagonist on the cover, shall we people?




Also, please lock this thread, mods. No good will come of anything here. Just like it hasn't the umpteen million other times this thread has appeared. 

[Seboist]

Filament wrote...

kmatthews wrote...

I punched a guy in defense of his harassment, he didn't punch me back & I didn't face any charges. If he did punch back I could have defended myself. It happened, it's over, I don't care if you think it was wrong. Get over it.

I'll remember that defense next time I break a woman's nose for insulting me, I'm sure the judge will agree with me.

If the judge is a real bro he would understand that it was a proper application of man's law on your part.

[RedArmyShogun]

You know heres what we do. Like a deranged serial killer, we'll add the eyes nose, all that stuff like in the form of a cardboard picture cut out to build the "perfect face" and just randomnize the boxes like that with the word SOON! wrote on the back in blood red letters.

Thats a win win for everyone.

[sandalisthemaker]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Irrational Games put a dudebro on the cover of Bioshock Infinite to get more sales, fans bought it up and the game was critically lauded. If they had received negative flak for it, they could have defended themselves. It happened, its over, they don't care if you think it was wrong. Get over it. 

Why be so dismissive, Jimmy?

Oh and thanks for reminding me of the Bioshock cover. 
They could have done something so much more creative and beautiful with the whole floating city thing.

[Angrywolves]

Ninja Stan must be off duty.rotfl. Why don't we just get back on topic ?