700 réponses à ce sujet

[Zazzerka]

katiebour wrote...

You guys have the power to change the industry simply by your own actions.  Please, try.

Is this directed at us, the consumers? What do you expect me to do? I sympathise, and I'll vote in a poll or sign a petition if you'd like, but I'm not going to quit gaming just because the industry has a fetish for muscly men.

[katiebour]

Laurscar wrote...

I like that you brought this up even tho I'm sure this topic gets discussed a lot on the bsn. I feel like people don't take this issue very seriously because it is just box art. But this kind of thing does impact how people perceive video games. I never would have played mass effect if I didn't know I could choose genders. I would have just watched my bf play it. IMO women just aren't represented very well in video games. the gaming industry seems to be mostly male dominated, but that will change in time. I think it's a good thing that Bioware has given the player a choice of gender in almost all their games and even though I have some problems with the way they've portrayed women, (for instance, edi's ******. wtf is that?) I respect that they try when it comes to female protagonists. Bioware has done a pretty good job with femshep imo, but I still think there is plenty of room for improvement. A fem protag on the cover would be a great start. I also agree that we don't even need have a protagonist on there, but I would love if bioware grew some ovaries and put a female protagonist on the cover for once. But that's just my perspective on it.

The first time I played Mass Effect, I played as Sheploo.  I didn't think about creating a custom character because it was a new franchise and I had no idea what to expect, and coming from games like Metal Gear etc. where the protag is always a man, I picked the default (which was of course the dude on the cover.)  It was still an awesome game, of course.

But then a friend told me a few years later "You liked Mass Effect, right?  You should play Dragon Age.  It's like Mass Effect but fantasy."

And I did, and the box didn't have a default dude on the cover- it just had a dragon.  When I got to character creation, the first thing I saw was that male-female selector.  And I didn't go into the game thinking "this is a game made for a male protag."  I created my f!Warden, the first of many, and suddenly the game was about her.   She was my character, and a woman, and she was awesome, and she saved the world.

I haven't viewed video games the same since.  And when I finally came back around to Mass Effect this year, after playing all the DA games, I wasn't about to play through as Sheploo again.  I knew what to expect, even when the boxart played that same tired message of  "This is a game where a man saves the universe," and I went back and started over with a fem!Shep.  My experience this time around has been a much deeper love of the franchise with a character that more accurately represents me.

How many people played Sheploo because he was the guy on the box? (I did.)  How many people played Garrett in DA2 because he was the guy on the box?  How many gamers internalized that message of male-as-hero even if they had the option to play as a woman?

[katiebour]

Zazzerka wrote...

katiebour wrote...

You guys have the power to change the industry simply by your own actions.  Please, try.

Is this directed at us, the consumers? What do you expect me to do? I sympathise, and I'll vote in a poll or sign a petition if you'd like, but I'm not going to quit gaming just because the industry has a fetish for muscly men.

No, it's directed at Bioware.  We as consumers can wish really hard, but unfortunately we can't magically put a woman on the box.  And I'm not going to stop gaming either just because there's a manry man on the cover- but at the very least I can make my voice and preference heard to see a fem!protag on there too.

Modifié par katiebour, 03 juin 2013 - 09:14 .

[Sir George Parr]

If the sleeve art was going to feature the protagonist, then it would be good if it went the same route as ME3 and allowed the choice as to which version of the protagonist adorned the cover. Instead of generic dudebro.

[Tinu]

I don't want the protagonist on the cover. *I* am the protagonist and it's not decided yet how I'll look. Put a dragon on it with some companions or big fight between the factions.

[TEWR]

I want the boxart hero to make the awesome face while giving you two thumbs up. 






Seriously though, I'd welcome a double-sided cover art that can be flipped. One side has the guy, the other the woman, but both are shown in trailers (along with female hero having maybe a few trailer moments of her own). That way, the community can have whatever side they want visible and the trailers are better representing female gamers.

My two cents.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 03 juin 2013 - 09:27 .

[BackdoorPaco]

BringBackNihlus wrote...

As a dudebro, I am offended.

I hope they put a male protagonist on the cover just to spite you, wench.

Ha. I like you.

[Captain Crash]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Seriously though, I'd welcome a double-sided cover art that can be flipped. One side has the guy, the other the woman, but both are shown in trailers (along with female hero having maybe a few trailer moments of her own). That way, the community can have whatever side they want visible and the trailers are better representing female gamers.

My two cents.

Yeah I think your spot on with this.  If they have already stated their doing trailers for both male and female seems like they have a set marketting idea.  Plus from what we know happened with FemShep in the end it seems like Bioware would be keen to carry it on

[RagdollFrey]

TinuHawke wrote...

I don't want the protagonist on the cover. *I* am the protagonist and it's not decided yet how I'll look. Put a dragon on it with some companions or big fight between the factions.

I feel stupid for never actually thinking this. I've always liked the default designs in both DA and ME so it was never a problem but this is a good point.

Otherwise, bring on the double-sided covers again! It was a great idea.

There is a lot of "it wouldn't sell if it was a female on the cover". I...don't think anyone buys games because of their cover? This is about representation within the franchise though. I have a lot of trouble seeing Bioware going bankrupt just because they put the next protagonist on DA3's cover as....GASP......female!

[mp911]

SergeantSnookie wrote...

 Maybe it's just me but I actually prefer cover art that doesn't have anybody on it at all. Like this.





Somehow, things like that actually catch my eye more than anything else.

But still, anything's better than broody dudebro walking towards the screen.

nice to see the ultimate version of skyrim is coming,  
on topic 2 différents cover , male and female would be nice,  or a map of the da universe

[LadyMalstroem]

DinoSteve wrote...

I didn't mean only farmville and I don't think that all girls only play farmville, nor do I condone any type of harassment, I just meant that the growth of female gamers coincides with the growth of  farmville type games and there is nothing wrong with enjoying those types of games, nor is there anything wrong with women enjoying AAA type games, my point was companies will try to ship as many units as possible and it has been proven the best way to to this is with a male character on the box art, you have to remember that companies show groups of people which is made up of women and men, the box art before they use it and and most of them chose the one with the guy.

and I'm sorry if you think I'm implying you aren't a real gamer and women who play games aren't real gamers, I would love it if there where more women gamers, because I get the same reaction from every women I have ever dated when the find out I'm a gamer.

Female gamers are really not that hard to find. I'm female, most of my friends are female, and most of them game in some way. I also didn't meet them through gaming in any way - they just happen to be gamers, like myself.

I'm concerned that the 47% figure often gets dismissed by guys like you who might not have been aware that many of the women around you are gamers. Some of us just don't talk about it unless asked, or unless we feel comfortable identifying as gamers. So you hear 47%, and based on past experiences, you scoff and assume that the majority of those only play facebook games.

Not only is it not true, but surely the same could be said about the 53% that are guy gamers too. I'm sure a lot of those are facebook gamers as well. My uncle isn't what I'd call a 'gamer', but he's been known to play casual games here and there. But his demographic isn't brought up when someone claims that 53% of gamers are men. Only when we're talking about women, for some reason. That bothers me.

katiebour wrote...

The first time I played Mass Effect, I played as Sheploo.  I didn't think about creating a custom character because it was a new franchise and I had no idea what to expect, and coming from games like Metal Gear etc. where the protag is always a man, I picked the default (which was of course the dude on the cover.)  It was still an awesome game, of course.

I did too. When I first played Mass Effect, I wasn't aware you could play as a woman. And at the time I was one of those people who just saw the game on the shelf and decided to try it out. The kind of person the box art is supposed to sell the game to.

[Katiania]

I have spent so much of my money on BioWare related things the past year. I've bought T shirts, hoodies, all the games, all of the books, the comics, I talk to people about the games and get them to try them. I am what marketing people call a brand ambassador. I know hundreds of more female game enthusiasts who adore these games as well.

You know why I do this? Because I had a few games treat me like I mattered. I was treated like my personal gaming experience was something they cared about. It's why these games are so popular with women. I will be disappointed if it's a male protag on the cover, but I know it's about the marketing. Still, I think they should do the Inquisitors M and F side by side or just have a dragon or an icon or something that isn't so exclusive.

[Nightdragon8]

I got a serious question, How many "females" not buy a game because there is not a male on the cover, or because there is a female on the cover?

because I would really love to see how many people honestly care about game cover art as "being the reason" for buying a game. because all the numbers aside, thats the REAL question here. and there is no poll that has been given as to "If ou see this on the cover will you buy it" sort of thing.

Cause as a gamer I could care less what the cover looks like. Its the same with CD's for music I could honeslty care less about the cover and more about the music.

I can't justify going out and saying "This cover looks pretty, I'll buy it!" and then listen to the music and find out I hate it.

If I wanna buy "Art" I wlll go out and find "Art" that I like and buy it.

[KiwiQuiche]

I would certainly like it. But no, a male is always the default with the female being the second-thought or 'speshul' option. Blargh.


If it comes to that, I would like it to be like SergeantSnookie said; just have a neutral, iconic cover for DAI.

Nightdragon8 wrote...

...

If I wanna buy "Art" I wlll go out and find "Art" that I like and buy it.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRdi8dORY47ZZg-2DIobKAEtqeamQaejAg1ez7pXaRtnAbd9HL-

Modifié par KiwiQuiche, 03 juin 2013 - 09:53 .

[ClavicleGKS]

I'm a guy. I play male and female protagonists. But this issue is much bigger than that preference. The fact that we live in a world where it's difficult for a big company to even launch and develop a concept because it has a female protagonist (Remember Me) is worrying. The fact that we live in a world that presumes only men can be real gamers, real consumers, and really appreciate the work and creativity that has gone into a game -- that's about as stupid, and as troubling, as the idea that only white guys can save the world. But that's what box-art seems to tell us.

Part of it might come down to the fact that game-devs seem less willing to take risks anymore. If something might lose them a tiny percentage of their market (while perhaps gaining them new customers, or increasing the loyalty of another section), then it just won't float. That's why we see the vast majority of resources in gaming going towards block-buster bi-annual games that never change for the better, and get worse with age.

And then there's stuff like the Bioware RPGs. I'd like to think they're different. I think they should look it.

Beyond my personal preference, I think it's important to break the mold, send a message. An abstract box-art would be all well and good, but it wouldn't say what box-art with a female protagonist, or a 50-50 split on the front cover would.

Far from alienating me, I think it'd say something that very few other game promo materials have ever said before, to a substantially large number of fans. (And, really, the biggest, most passionate lovers of games like these that I've ever had the pleasure of meeting have been women.)

Rather than alienating me, it would let me know that, wow, these developers have their **** together. They're willing to change things. They recognise that their fan-base isn't just its majority: it's diverse, and wonderful for it. And the same goes for their characters.

So yeah. I think it's a point that needs to be made.

/rant.

[LoonySpectre]

Dragon Age II had a full DLC with a FemHawke-exclusive straight love interest. No such treatment for MaleHawke.
Should the male gamers have been offended?

[katiebour]

Nightdragon8 wrote...

I got a serious question, How many "females" not buy a game because there is not a male on the cover, or because there is a female on the cover?

because I would really love to see how many people honestly care about game cover art as "being the reason" for buying a game. because all the numbers aside, thats the REAL question here. and there is no poll that has been given as to "If ou see this on the cover will you buy it" sort of thing.

Cause as a gamer I could care less what the cover looks like. Its the same with CD's for music I could honeslty care less about the cover and more about the music.

I can't justify going out and saying "This cover looks pretty, I'll buy it!" and then listen to the music and find out I hate it.

If I wanna buy "Art" I wlll go out and find "Art" that I like and buy it.

Turn it around.  If the cover art doesn't matter, then put a woman on it.  It doesn't matter, after all, right?

As someone already invested in Bioware's franchises, I'm likely to buy it no matter what is on the cover, because they've hooked me.  

Is the average female gamer more likely to buy a game that features a powerful, capable, non-sexualized female avatar on the cover?  Is the average male gamer less likely to buy the same game with the same cover?  I don't have the answer to that- I suppose you'd have to do a study.  I usually look at the text on the back, the in-game screenshots, and the description as well when I make a game purchase.  But a bad-**** woman on the cover is likely to grab my attention, yes.

Modifié par katiebour, 03 juin 2013 - 10:08 .

[KiwiQuiche]

LoonySpectre wrote...

Dragon Age II had a full DLC with a FemHawke-exclusive straight love interest. No such treatment for MaleHawke.
Should the male gamers have been offended?

Oh wow, Sebastian. A whiny, hypocritical preacher who offers a 'chaste' marriage. :| Aren't we ladies lucky ducks.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Oh look....it's this thread again.

People overacting and finding significance in insignificant stuff again. I weep for humanity.

[KiwiQuiche]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Oh look....it's this thread again.

People overacting and finding significance in insignificant stuff again. I weep for humanity.

Yup, god forbid some people want equality with gender in media.

[katiebour]

LoonySpectre wrote...

Dragon Age II had a full DLC with a FemHawke-exclusive straight love interest. No such treatment for MaleHawke.
Should the male gamers have been offended?

DA2 had a five-four split of LIs available for women and men Hawkes to romance.  And then there's this graphic that popped up a few pages back:



I guess you could get your knickerweasels in a twist over Seb if you wanted to- certainly f!shep players have had theirs in a twist over ME3 for quite a while.

But that's still irrelevant to the topic of fem!protag representation in box art.

[katiebour]

JimmyRustles wrote...

Why dont we have both instead of one? As in what they did with ME3?? Is anyone listening? No?

Modifié par katiebour, 03 juin 2013 - 10:27 .

[KiwiQuiche]

I hear you Jimmy. I wouldn't mind that option either. As long as Bioware stops with the "walking menacingly out to the player" cover they seem to favour. :|