700 réponses à ce sujet

[Asdrubael Vect]

"If 47% of gamers are women" in USA and Canada maybe but not in the other countries

most of gamers in the world are males, and most part of this 47% American and Canadian females still play in facebook or ifone games

and we have female shep in some of ME boxes and even FemShep trailer, so stop talking about "discrimination"

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 03 juin 2013 - 12:38 .

[Bassarid]

I like the idea. Lady gamers have been asked to identify with male protags forever, can it be so hard for guys to identify with a female protag?

[Bayonet Hipshot]

@katiebur.

So what if Femshep is in the back of the book cover ? Does the drawing of a fictitious person and their positions in a book have any relation to women discrimination ? Do you see men going around parroting the fact that because Male Shepard is on the front of the box cover and in front of the books, men are somehow superior than women  ? 

I can understand the notion of having both genders in box covers but the reasoning is just absurd. Femshep is at the back so women are oppressed. Femshep is not the default box cover so she is oppressed..

I will say it again:- We live in a society where it is politically incorrect to be men

[KiwiQuiche]

Kinda goes with the whole "default Hawkes are white people" thing I suppose.

[Kidd]

The Sin wrote...

Reznore57 wrote...

I don't think it's about opression , The Sin.
And it's not about hating man at all.
It's just male are heroes , there's countless stories about them , they're the poster boys of adventures etc..
And often females are just in stories to help the male hero achieve whatever...

It's a bit sad for women .
I was reading a book about mythology months ago , and well the big role for women was motherhood , or getting kidnapped , or waiting for husband hero to finish his super world shattering business.

Sure. So why aren't the majority of the women posters here advocating for swappable box art covers ? Why do we have posters calling for men to go and kill themselves if they have a differing opinion ? 

While I absolutely don't condone telling people to off themselves for any reason, the point being made is that we would like things to be a tad more equal. Perhaps if every second game released had a man on the cover and every second had a woman, that'd be nice, no? DA2 had a man, ME3 had a man on the cover by default with the option of swapping to a woman on the cover. It's past time we had DA3 with a woman on the cover, or a woman on a reversible cover by default with the option of reversing to see a man character, no? I mean, that's only fair.

Personally I'm perfectly fine with both protagonists being on the box though. They could stand semi-facing the camera, shoulder to shoulder or something with the blood dragon embracing them - Dragon Age 3 logo on top. That could look pretty cool.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Trikormadenadon wrote...

Reznore57 wrote...

I don't think it's about opression , The Sin.
And it's not about hating man at all.
It's just male are heroes , there's countless stories about them , they're the poster boys of adventures etc..
And often females are just in stories to help the male hero achieve whatever...

It's a bit sad for women .
I was reading a book about mythology months ago , and well the big role for women was motherhood , or getting kidnapped , or waiting for husband hero to finish his super world shattering business.

Except that in a later post the OP says when she looks at the cover of ME and ME2 etc all she sees is that BW is trying to tell her that only white men can save the universe...so yeah, it's about oppression/discrimination against women for the OP.

EDIT: For spelling.

Exactly. I do not get why white men get so much hatred everywhere just for being white men. By the way, I am an Asian guy from Malaysia. Specifically speaking, Indian guy from Malaysia.  You don't see me going around : "Oh Indian men are not represented on video game covers so we are discriminated !" or "Asian men are not represented in video game covers even though we make up the majority of the population of world gamers so we are discriminated !" 

[KiwiQuiche]

The Sin wrote...

@katiebur.

So what if Femshep is in the back of the book cover ? Does the drawing of a fictitious person and their positions in a book have any relation to women discrimination ? Do you see men going around parroting the fact that because Male Shepard is on the front of the box cover and in front of the books, men are somehow superior than women  ? 

I can understand the notion of having both genders in box covers but the reasoning is just absurd. Femshep is at the back so women are oppressed. Femshep is not the default box cover so she is oppressed..

I will say it again:- We live in a society where it is politically incorrect to be men

https://encrypted-tb...Cuvd-UA5_u-zDVw

[myrrhcat]

Trikormadenadon wrote...

myrrhcat wrote...

Men, it doesn't affect you, so keep your opinion to yourself. Putting a woman on the cover WOULD NOT AFFECT YOU IN THE LEAST.

As soon as you tell someone they should keep their opinion to themselves, you are no longer allowed to voice your opinion either....

As for the second half of the quote...Putting a man on the cover SHOULD NOT AFFECT YOU IN THE LEAST EITHER.

I'm telling men to keep their opinions to themselves for a reason. Same reason straight people shouldn't get to vote on gay marriage, or rich people shouldn't get to vote on benefits for the poor. Their opinion is irrelevant, and when they come in and give it anyway, it's condescending.

We're not talking about isolated incidents here. MOST video games out there do not have the female hero on the cover. 47% of gamers are women (according to whatever statistic was quoted before, idk if it's accurate but the point is there's a lot of us) so AT LEAST 47% of games should have women on the cover. If you're disproportionately representing men as the heroes and shoving women to the side, that's obviously sexist. Look at the big manly male hero! No female heroes here! This is a manly game for men! Women need not apply.

And the number of people in here making kitchen jokes just proves the point once again. If we're just making up problems that don't exist, then explain the sexist jokes. (And no, just because it's a "joke" doesn't mean it's not sexist. I've heard it a million times, and every time it's a little more obnoxious.)

[KiwiQuiche]

And haven't people already read those condescending and sexist comments that are in this thread? Even for simply asking for coverart to include a female PC gets snarky, sexist commentary by people who treat it like a joke.

[Lotion Soronarr]

The Sin wrote...

@katiebur.

So what if Femshep is in the back of the book cover ? Does the drawing of a fictitious person and their positions in a book have any relation to women discrimination ? Do you see men going around parroting the fact that because Male Shepard is on the front of the box cover and in front of the books, men are somehow superior than women  ? 

I can understand the notion of having both genders in box covers but the reasoning is just absurd. Femshep is at the back so women are oppressed. Femshep is not the default box cover so she is oppressed..

I will say it again:- We live in a society where it is politically incorrect to be men

And if you are a WHITE MAN you are twice as incorrect.
A White heterosexual man is THRICE as incorrect.

merrycat

Men, it doesn't affect you, so keep your opinion to yourself. Putting a
woman on the cover WOULD NOT AFFECT YOU IN THE LEAST. You would still
buy the game, you would still get to play as your generic white boy
character, and you would still enjoy it just as much. Meanwhile, we
female gamers would actually get to see ourselves on the cover for once,
and get a nice acknowledgement that our gender doesn't exist just as
oversexualized arm candy for the male hero.

So you are saing having anything other than a female on the cover greviously wounds you?

That you WOULDN'T buy and play the game if ManShep was on the cover?

Wait, which one of us was suppsoed to be the obessed one again?
Because last time I checked, I didn't base my purchases on the box cover art and I don't have a knee-jerk rejectio nreaction to females on covers.

Waht I protest to is this insane notion that women HAVE to be on the cover, that there HAS to be a 50/50 distrubution at all times and that anything less is an attack on women (or whatever "opressed" group you want).

And if you do have a problem with it, walk off a nice cliff.

Ladies first my dear.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 03 juin 2013 - 12:52 .

[MoosenLoosen]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

And haven't people already read those condescending and sexist comments that are in this thread? Even for simply asking for coverart to include a female PC gets snarky, sexist commentary by people who treat it like a joke.

Oh man, a woman's talking! She wants me to think! What will we do, man? Oh, wait, I have an idea. I'll make a kitchen joke and call her a wench. That'll teach her to open her mouth.

[wolfhowwl]

As long as it isn't Hawke's stupid face there, I'll be happy.

[KiwiQuiche]

MoosenLoosen wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

And haven't people already read those condescending and sexist comments that are in this thread? Even for simply asking for coverart to include a female PC gets snarky, sexist commentary by people who treat it like a joke.

Oh man, a woman's talking! She wants me to think! What will we do, man? Oh, wait, I have an idea. I'll make a kitchen joke and call her a wench. That'll teach her to open her mouth.

That's pretty much what happened. Oh the delights of an advanced society.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

The main point I am trying to make is very simple. I do not get why many people take sex and race way too seriously. 

Realy. That is not the point of the games Bioware have been making.

So what is Shepard on the box cover is Male Shepard. At the end of the day its Commander Shepard, Hero of the Citadel, An Example of Humanity, The Savior of the Galaxy. Does it matter if Commander Shepard is white or is black or asian? Does it matter if Commander Shepard has a vagina and breasts as opposed to penis and scrotum? Does it really matter ?

Does it really matter if the Grey Warden, the Hero Of Ferelden, the Savior of Amaranthine is white or is black or asian ? Does it matter if the Grey Warden has a vagina and breasts as opposed to penis and scrotum? Does it really matter ?

Does it really matter if the Hawke, the Champion of Kirkwall  is white or is black or Asian ? Does it matter if the Champion has a vagina and breasts as opposed to penis and scrotum? Does it really matter ? 

I thought we live in the 21st century. An era where we don't really give a damn to a person's complexion. An era where we don't really care about how someone's ancestors lived. An era where we don't give a damn about someone's reproductive organs. An era where game characters will be game characters. That their accomplishments and their capabilities is something that matters more than their sex and race....

[MoosenLoosen]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

The Sin wrote...

@katiebur.

So what if Femshep is in the back of the book cover ? Does the drawing of a fictitious person and their positions in a book have any relation to women discrimination ? Do you see men going around parroting the fact that because Male Shepard is on the front of the box cover and in front of the books, men are somehow superior than women  ? 

I can understand the notion of having both genders in box covers but the reasoning is just absurd. Femshep is at the back so women are oppressed. Femshep is not the default box cover so she is oppressed..

I will say it again:- We live in a society where it is politically incorrect to be men

And if you are a WHITE MAN you are twice as incorrect.
A White heterosexual man is THRICE as incorrect.

merrycat

Men, it doesn't affect you, so keep your opinion to yourself. Putting a
woman on the cover WOULD NOT AFFECT YOU IN THE LEAST. You would still
buy the game, you would still get to play as your generic white boy
character, and you would still enjoy it just as much. Meanwhile, we
female gamers would actually get to see ourselves on the cover for once,
and get a nice acknowledgement that our gender doesn't exist just as
oversexualized arm candy for the male hero.

So you are saing having anything other than a female on the cover greviously wounds you?

That you WOULDN'T buy and play the game if ManShep was on the cover?

Wait, which one of us was suppsoed to be the obessed one again?
Because last time I checked, I didn't base my purchases on the box cover art and I don't have a knee-jerk rejectio nreaction to females on covers.

Waht I protest to is this insane notion that women HAVE to be on the cover, that there HAS to be a 50/50 distrubution at all times and that anything less is an attack on women (or whatever "opressed" group you want).

You did not read that in a book somewhere, did you? I hope the small letters did not strain you overmuch.

[katiebour]

The Sin wrote...

Sure. So why aren't the majority of the women posters here advocating for swappable box art covers ? Why do we have posters calling for men to go and kill themselves if they have a differing opinion ? 

Several of us have in fact lauded that idea.  The thing is, as I pointed out both in my first post and in subsequent posts, is that oftentimes the electronic versions and other website media only have one image, and they default to male.  Let me take a few screenies to illustrate:



Here is me writing this post.  Notice Sheploo in all his glory on the right?  Notice the two ME ads on the left featuring male characters?



Here's what the top row of my Origin client looks like when I boot it up.  Notice all the man!protags?  Notice the complete and utter lack of fem!protags?

I don't hate man!Sheps or Sheploo.  I don't hate Garrett Hawke or m!Warden or any of the other default male characters.

What I want is to see female protags in all of these places AS WELL.  Have some man!protag ads- then have some f!protag ones as well!  Offer a choice of box art between m! and f!protag, or put them both on the cover at the same time!  Make trailers featuring both genders as hero!

Erasing advertising featuring men completely isn't right either.  Just add some awesome ladies to the mix (and not in the usual hypersexual skimpy outfit way, or as an implied LI, but just as awesome and heroic as the men) and I'd be really, really happy.

[MoosenLoosen]

The Sin wrote...

The main point I am trying to make is very simple. I do not get why many people take sex and race way too seriously. 

Realy. That is not the point of the games Bioware have been making.

So what is Shepard on the box cover is Male Shepard. At the end of the day its Commander Shepard, Hero of the Citadel, An Example of Humanity, The Savior of the Galaxy. Does it matter if Commander Shepard is white or is black or asian? Does it matter if Commander Shepard has a vagina and breasts as opposed to penis and scrotum? Does it really matter ?

Does it really matter if the Grey Warden, the Hero Of Ferelden, the Savior of Amaranthine is white or is black or asian ? Does it matter if the Grey Warden has a vagina and breasts as opposed to penis and scrotum? Does it really matter ?

Does it really matter if the Hawke, the Champion of Kirkwall  is white or is black or Asian ? Does it matter if the Champion has a vagina and breasts as opposed to penis and scrotum? Does it really matter ? 

I thought we live in the 21st century. An era where we don't really give a damn to a person's complexion. An era where we don't really care about how someone's ancestors lived. An era where we don't give a damn about someone's reproductive organs. An era where game characters will be game characters. That their accomplishments and their capabilities is something that matters more than their sex and race....

If you think that racism is gone or that sexism is dead, I have some bad news for you.

Modifié par MoosenLoosen, 03 juin 2013 - 12:49 .

[myrrhcat]

Haha, these dudes aren't even reading what I post.

The simplest, nicest request for equal representation becomes a knee-jerk reaction, an obsession, the unreasonable, unfathomable shrieking of nightmare feminist harpies.

When we're nice, you ignore us or mock us, so I'm not gonna bother being nice.

I am a woman, I'm equal to you, and I deserve to see my gender represented as much as yours is. That is all I have been saying. If you disagree with that, you are sexist, and if you are sexist, you should definitely jump off a cliff. You'll probably survive. There's probably an ocean or something at the bottom.

[Trikormadenadon]

myrrhcat wrote...

Trikormadenadon wrote...

myrrhcat wrote...

Men, it doesn't affect you, so keep your opinion to yourself. Putting a woman on the cover WOULD NOT AFFECT YOU IN THE LEAST.

As soon as you tell someone they should keep their opinion to themselves, you are no longer allowed to voice your opinion either....

As for the second half of the quote...Putting a man on the cover SHOULD NOT AFFECT YOU IN THE LEAST EITHER.

I'm telling men to keep their opinions to themselves for a reason. Same reason straight people shouldn't get to vote on gay marriage, or rich people shouldn't get to vote on benefits for the poor. Their opinion is irrelevant, and when they come in and give it anyway, it's condescending.

We're not talking about isolated incidents here. MOST video games out there do not have the female hero on the cover. 47% of gamers are women (according to whatever statistic was quoted before, idk if it's accurate but the point is there's a lot of us) so AT LEAST 47% of games should have women on the cover. If you're disproportionately representing men as the heroes and shoving women to the side, that's obviously sexist. Look at the big manly male hero! No female heroes here! This is a manly game for men! Women need not apply.

And the number of people in here making kitchen jokes just proves the point once again. If we're just making up problems that don't exist, then explain the sexist jokes. (And no, just because it's a "joke" doesn't mean it's not sexist. I've heard it a million times, and every time it's a little more obnoxious.)

So the people who are straight are not allowed to vote on a change to a society in which they live? If a person does not wish to live in a society where they allow gay marriage then they should be allowed to voice that opinion. You don't have to agree with their opinion but they absolutely have the right to voice it. Same with rich people. They pay taxes too so they absolutely get to vote for where the government sends the tax dollars.

This kind of extremist thought process is the thing that is condescending, not the people trying to voice their opinion.

[wolfhowwl]

myrrhcat wrote...
I'm telling men to keep their opinions to themselves for a reason. Same reason straight people shouldn't get to vote on gay marriage, or rich people shouldn't get to vote on benefits for the poor. Their opinion is irrelevant, and when they come in and give it anyway, it's condescending.

We're not talking about isolated incidents here. MOST video games out there do not have the female hero on the cover. 47% of gamers are women (according to whatever statistic was quoted before, idk if it's accurate but the point is there's a lot of us) so AT LEAST 47% of games should have women on the cover. If you're disproportionately representing men as the heroes and shoving women to the side, that's obviously sexist. Look at the big manly male hero! No female heroes here! This is a manly game for men! Women need not apply.

And the number of people in here making kitchen jokes just proves the point once again. If we're just making up problems that don't exist, then explain the sexist jokes. (And no, just because it's a "joke" doesn't mean it's not sexist. I've heard it a million times, and every time it's a little more obnoxious.)

Should the poor not be able to vote on taxes for high income earners too?

[Trikormadenadon]

myrrhcat wrote...

Haha, these dudes aren't even reading what I post.

The simplest, nicest request for equal representation becomes a knee-jerk reaction, an obsession, the unreasonable, unfathomable shrieking of nightmare feminist harpies.

When we're nice, you ignore us or mock us, so I'm not gonna bother being nice.

I am a woman, I'm equal to you, and I deserve to see my gender represented as much as yours is. That is all I have been saying. If you disagree with that, you are sexist, and if you are sexist, you should definitely jump off a cliff. You'll probably survive. There's probably an ocean or something at the bottom.

You told people who disagree with you to jump off a cliff...not exactly a nice request.

Yes, you are equal, but when the OP says she thinks BW is trying to tell he rthat only males can save the galaxy just because its a male protagonist on the cover of Me1 and 2 it goes beyond equality into the realm of discrimination. 

I agree with equality, I disgaree with extreme feminist sexism.

EDIT: Spelling.

Modifié par Trikormadenadon, 03 juin 2013 - 12:56 .

[myrrhcat]

Trikormadenadon wrote...

myrrhcat wrote...

I'm telling men to keep their opinions to themselves for a reason. Same reason straight people shouldn't get to vote on gay marriage, or rich people shouldn't get to vote on benefits for the poor. Their opinion is irrelevant, and when they come in and give it anyway, it's condescending.

We're not talking about isolated incidents here. MOST video games out there do not have the female hero on the cover. 47% of gamers are women (according to whatever statistic was quoted before, idk if it's accurate but the point is there's a lot of us) so AT LEAST 47% of games should have women on the cover. If you're disproportionately representing men as the heroes and shoving women to the side, that's obviously sexist. Look at the big manly male hero! No female heroes here! This is a manly game for men! Women need not apply.

And the number of people in here making kitchen jokes just proves the point once again. If we're just making up problems that don't exist, then explain the sexist jokes. (And no, just because it's a "joke" doesn't mean it's not sexist. I've heard it a million times, and every time it's a little more obnoxious.)

So the people who are straight are not allowed to vote on a change to a society in which they live? If a person does not wish to live in a society where they allow gay marriage then they should be allowed to voice that opinion. You don't have to agree with their opinion but they absolutely have the right to voice it. Same with rich people. They pay taxes too so they absolutely get to vote for where the government sends the tax dollars.

This kind of extremist thought process is the thing that is condescending, not the people trying to voice their opinion.

"If a person does not wish to live in a society where they allow gay marriage" they're a terrible person. There's no difference between a society that allows gay marriage and one that doesn't, except that gay people get equal rights. If you're opposed to equal rights, seriously, step on a lego.

Of course, the great thing about Bioware is that, despite the whole only men on the cover art thing, they still do a great job of representation compared to other companies. Lots of queer romance options, always the opportunity to play as a female hero, and few chainmail bikinis. And all the sexist dudebros have complained about those things, but Bioware kept doing their thing. So hopefully we'll get them to budge on this issue too.

[MoosenLoosen]

The question is, why is it such a big ask to get a woman on the cover of a video game?


If it truly doesn't matter and the matter is inconsequential, why are you still here?

Modifié par MoosenLoosen, 03 juin 2013 - 12:59 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

KiddDaBeauty wrote...
And the moment somebody asks for just one game to break the status quo, we get walls of texts like what you and several others have given us here.

That's because box covers are decided upon by the marketign and art departments for their own reasons.
I dislike ANYONE telling them what to do or trying to force something.

If they want a man or a women or a cow or a a box on a cover, let htem put it and don't raise a big fuss over it.

myrrcat
It's not discrimination to put men on the box, it's discrimination to not put women on the box

No it's not.
"Do what I want, otherwise it's discrimination" is not discrimination.

Enne the thread title is very demanding/commanding.
It's not "Bioware, I would love it if you put a female on the cover".. it's "Put a female! NOW! DO IT!"

I'm telling men to keep their opinions to themselves for a reason.
Same reason straight people shouldn't get to vote on gay marriage, or
rich people shouldn't get to vote on benefits for the poor. Their
opinion is irrelevant, and when they come in and give it anyway, it's
condescending.

Oh Rly?
Heres a novel new thought  - your oppinion is irrelevant.

You are basicly stating that even oppinion contrary to yours are base and insulting and "bad" and should never be spoken. So much for freedom of speech.

[KiwiQuiche]

MoosenLoosen wrote...

The question is, why is it such a big ask to get a woman on the cover of a video game?


If it truly doesn't matter and the matter is inconsequential, why are you still here?

I don't know; but judging from the knee jerk reactions of "OMG IT SHOULDN'T MATTER, WHO CARES" despite the evidence to the contary, kinda paints a not nice picture.