28 réponses à ce sujet

[Silensfurtim]

 EVASION - +20% dodge/parry, +20% resist stun/knockdown

Definition - The act of physically escaping from something (an opponent or a pursuer or an unpleasant situation) by some adroit manoeuvre.

But unfortunately we get a blocking animation that breaks all actions by your Rogue.

Revision - I hope Bioware would remove that blocking/parrying animation to make this Talent more useful and worthy of a skill point.


FEIGN DEATH - The rogue collapses at the enemies' feet, causing them to lose interest and seek other targets until the rogue gives up the ruse.

With Master Stealth, Feign Death is soooo useless. It also has a 5 minute cooldown. Whats up with that? Even if they reduce the cooldown in half, its still isnt worth a skill point, imo.

Revision - a 2 minute cooldown would do.

Or, an ability to trip enemies whenever your lying on the ground. LOL. Of course thats not gonna happen.


DEADLY STRIKE - The rogue makes a swift strike at a vulnerable area on the target, dealing normal damage but gaining a bonus to armor penetration.

Seriously, who ever uses this? A single, normal damage with AP bonus is not noticable. Its a waste of stamina and skill point.

Revision - I would like to see an additional purpose for this Talent like additional damage when activated in a backstab position.

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Your thoughts?

Modifié par Silensfurtim, 17 janvier 2010 - 06:24 .

[Random70]

Evasion: It's not the animation so much as the phase ordering. It appears the game checks to see if you should evade an attack before it checks to see if the attack would miss entirely due to your defense. Simply flipping these two checks would go a long way toward making this talent a lot more useful.

Feign Death: IMHO this talent is flawed beyond repair. Even if it had a 5 sec. cooldown I wouldn't touch this talent with a 10 meter cattle prod.

Deadly Strike: Again, not something that I ever use, though I like your idea of making this some sort of backstab attack.

[Beaker_1]

I put evasion on Leliana (as an archer) and as she only used sustained abilities, was the only good I ever got from it.



Feign death... agree totally, utterly useless. Maybe if it made the enemy fall over as oppose to you...



Deadly strike... I try to use it just as an excuse for using an ability when a rogue's stamina is relatively full, but it again is useless. It should cause the enemy to bleed and lose health I think, hence making it remotely deadly.

[BlackVader]

Feign Death should have some additional efects. Maybe +50% to all resistances while you are on the ground. After all, a Fireball's explosion shouldn't hit you with full force. Also, maybe some kind of fast - and I mean FAST - stamina regeneration while you're prone would also be good. Maybe even health regenertaion Oh, and the 5 minutes cooldown is just a bad bad joke.

[Carodej]

Random70 wrote...

Evasion: It's not the animation so much as the phase ordering. It appears the game checks to see if you should evade an attack before it checks to see if the attack would miss entirely due to your defense. Simply flipping these two checks would go a long way toward making this talent a lot more useful.

Feign Death: IMHO this talent is flawed beyond repair. Even if it had a 5 sec. cooldown I wouldn't touch this talent with a 10 meter cattle prod.

Deadly Strike: Again, not something that I ever use, though I like your idea of making this some sort of backstab attack.

Yes, yes, yes!  My dex Rogue was practically impossible to hit and had great DPS.  I picked Evasion and all of a sudden I am constantly stopping in order to dodge/block arrows that normally never touch my character.   You are soooo right in saying if they'd just change the order, that would have worked out so much better.

[Silensfurtim]

Maybe Evasion should better off used asn activated "Epic Dodge" with, lets say, a 50% dodge bonus for a duration of 20 seconds. This would benefit a CUN Rogues low defense rating.

Modifié par Silensfurtim, 17 janvier 2010 - 12:10 .

[Silensfurtim]

BlackVader wrote...

Feign Death should have some additional efects. Maybe +50% to all resistances while you are on the ground. After all, a Fireball's explosion shouldn't hit you with full force. Also, maybe some kind of fast - and I mean FAST - stamina regeneration while you're prone would also be good. Maybe even health regenertaion Oh, and the 5 minutes cooldown is just a bad bad joke.

Yeah that sounds good. HP and Stamina regen while prone. And also reduced cooldown.

[fchopin]

Silensfurtim wrote...

Maybe Evasion should better off used asn activated "Epic Dodge" with, lets say, a 50% dodge bonus for a duration of 20 seconds. This would benefit a CUN Rogues low defense rating.

This could also be useful when ogres ram the rogue so if there is a chance to avoid it would be great.
 
Feign death i never use, waste of time.

[tetracycloide]

Evasion should work like the warrior talent 'Perfect Striking' a 100 point boost to defense for 15 secs. Probably needs a longer cooldown though, maybe 60 secs possibly 75.

[soteria]

I agree with this post--although I think the archery(!) and 2h talents need even more work, that's not a reason not to "fix" rogue talents.  Even without momentum, deadly strike is basically worthless.

Modifié par soteria, 17 janvier 2010 - 04:38 .

[Timortis]

Evasion is fine except for the animation bug. They just need to fix it so it doesn't interrupt what you're doing, and it'd be a great talent. There's no need to turn it into something else.

[WillieStyle]

Timortis wrote...

Evasion is fine except for the animation bug. They just need to fix it so it doesn't interrupt what you're doing, and it'd be a great talent. There's no need to turn it into something else.

Bioware really should re-evaluate the way Dragon Age deals with animations. 
Having ancillary animations interrupt actions is problematic. 
Having abilities trigger VERY long animations (disarming traps, tainted blade etc.) is very bad.
Making it possible to side-step the penalties of animations by force-moving your character makes the whole thing seem rather pointless.

Were these long, ability-cancelling animations put in the game for balance purposes?
If so, how come I can cancel them by moving? 
And devs really think evasion and disarming traps would be overpowered if they didn't make you stand around like an idiot for 20 secs?

[tetracycloide]

I don't think it's just the animation bug. It doesn't stack well with defense so at 150 defense if my rogue is already being hit 10% of the time or less the 20% in evasion is only going to be removing 2% of incoming hits instead of 20%. That seems rather weak. If it were changed to defense it would be more situationally useful, even in a high defense build, and less of a place to throw away points after everything good is taken.

[Timortis]

Defense doesn't let you resist Scattershot stuns, Evasion does. It's nice to have another 20% chance to avoid auto-hit abilities, and it makes Rogues unique in some way.

[WillieStyle]

tetracycloide wrote...

I don't think it's just the animation bug. It doesn't stack well with defense so at 150 defense if my rogue is already being hit 10% of the time or less the 20% in evasion is only going to be removing 2% of incoming hits instead of 20%. That seems rather weak. If it were changed to defense it would be more situationally useful, even in a high defense build, and less of a place to throw away points after everything good is taken.

What you're asking for is a "single roll" ability that stacks additively with defense, instead of combining multiplicatively.
That would be ridiculously overpowered.  It would just make it that much easier to be "situationally" unhittable.
Defense already scales too well with itself. There's no reason to make things even worse.

Also, the "stack well with defense" thing doesn't work.
Generally, it's good game design to put in diminishing returns to attributes so players don't get too one dimensional.
The more crit % you have, the less valuable additional crit % is.
The more attack rating you have, the less valuable attack rating is.
The more stamina & stam regen you have, the less valuable addtional stamina becomes.
This is a GOOD thing.  The same should apply to defense and evasion.

[Silensfurtim]

anybody find Deadly Strike useful? what revisions do you want for it?

[shree420]

Deadly Strike would need to deal at least critical damage and impose a severe armor penalty for 20 seconds. Don't think it needs to go beyond that either.



Evasion could be a sustained talent like the 2H indomitable with immunity to stuns, overwhelm, and decreased damage from AOE spells. Currently, this ability is bugged animation-wise and doesn't make sense to just stack on top of defense, though I agree Cun Rogues appreciate the modifier.



I understand the roleplaying aspect behind Feign Death, and think the ability itself isn't bad; it fits right in with how a rogue would fight; releasing aggro is vital for a rogue playstyle. Never used it myself, but if they reduce the cooldown to something believable, it's a very good talent.



It's arguably made useless by Combat Stealth, but Combat Stealth itself is OP I think; being able to vanish mid-battle without any magical or potion aids in the DA:O world should not be possible. If we keep Combat Stealth as is, it might make sense to replace Feign Death with something else entirely; maybe a passive permanent bonus to backstab modifier, AP etc. Currently, there's no equivalent talent that just passively boosts the rogue's abilities; a sort of Rogue Mastery would be good.

[Erakleitos]

[quote]WillieStyle wrote...

[quote]Timortis wrote...
Having abilities trigger VERY long animations (disarming traps, tainted blade etc.) is very bad.[/quote]

tip: To disarm a trap just click the trap and move away your char, the trap will be disabled and you don't have to wait for the animationa. The trap is disabled in the very moment you click it, you don't have to wait the full animation + the "trap disabled" message.

[soteria]

shree420, the problem with saying "combat stealth is OP and doesn't make sense" is that with Dragon Age's combat mechanics, stealth would be nearly 100% worthless without it. You come into combat before you really even engage the enemy, and then it's too late to stealth. Even if you're out of sight, you stay in combat until everyone is dead. Add all the encounters that start with a conversation that pulls you out of stealth, and it's looking more and more useless. Combat stealth is necessary.

[Silensfurtim]

soteria wrote...

shree420, the problem with saying "combat stealth is OP and doesn't make sense" is that with Dragon Age's combat mechanics, stealth would be nearly 100% worthless without it. You come into combat before you really even engage the enemy, and then it's too late to stealth. Even if you're out of sight, you stay in combat until everyone is dead. Add all the encounters that start with a conversation that pulls you out of stealth, and it's looking more and more useless. Combat stealth is necessary.

Yes its necessary. To think that cutscenes already messes up our Stealth.

[shree420]

True, cutscenes mess up a lot of things.



I understand that nerfing Combat Stealth is not the best option, which is why it might then be better to replace Feign Death with something else entirely.

[soteria]

Yeah, it's incredibly redundant.

[FuIcrum]

Instead of "fixing" useless talents like Feign Death, Evasion, and Deadly Strike, BioWare should just remove them instead, seriously, there are so many Rogue talents as it is, no1 puts points on them anyway.

[Spyndel]

FuIcrum wrote...

Instead of "fixing" useless talents like Feign Death, Evasion, and Deadly Strike, BioWare should just remove them instead, seriously, there are so many Rogue talents as it is, no1 puts points on them anyway.

I dont care about the other two, but I like the idea of the passive defense buff that Evasion represents.  Like others have said, it just needs to work better without interrupting your character's combat.

[0mar]

Talents to manage agro are just plain stupid. Players want to bash heads in and stop entire armies with their character, not play ping-pong with the enemy's AI.