177 réponses à ce sujet

[rapscallioness]

gasp. omg. those images. oh, i would love this. this makes me wanna cry cuz i don't think we're going to get this.

And, Filament..the exact same idea abt Flemeth and our wayward heroes crossed my mind.

[HurricaneGinger]

I would not mind finding out more about the Black City, but only through codex entries or quests like Legacy. It's an interesting subject. However, dedicating the majority of the upcoming game to it is not a preference - as someone already said, it would be furthering the lore instead of what is important: the plot. If a future game is planned around it, sure, why not?

[Hazegurl]

MisterJB wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

I don't believe the Black City was ever golden.

How could it not have been? We know for a fact the Magisters broke into it which suggests it was visible since before Tevinter. Thus, it follows that, at that point, it appeared golden or Corypheus and his ilk wouldn't have believed it to be. Corypheus specifically mentions that the city was "supposed to be golden."
If the City was golden or appeared to be until the Magisters actually entered it; and now everyone sees it as a dark city; it strongly suggests their invasion was the catalyst of some change, Maker-related or not.

What I get from that is that the city wasn't golden to begin with. But I don't know if it is Chantry propaganda or not. For all we know the Maker was a real person or being like Flemeth that existed and for some reason could benefit by telling people lies about a Golden city that everyone who believes in him can go when they die. Honestly, it sounds kind of shady to me. Telling people to have Exalted Marches which causes more death and destruction, putting fear into people that they would be wandering oblivion for not beliving. Sounds like some ulterior motives to me. I'm just speculating here but I find the Chantry to be suckers more than some evil organization spreading lies. imo.

[atum]

The Wolf Man wrote...



(snip)

Those are really awesome pics, where from?

[Ieldra]

To clear things up about the post I made earlier:

Corypheus says the city "was supposed to be golden", implying that it wasn't when the ancient Magisters entered it. It also suggests that they didn't see the city from afar before they tried to enter it, and that nothing they did actually caused the city to turn black.

Also, there is really no reason to see the attempt to enter the city as a "transgression". Nobody actually told the Magisters "this is mine, enter at your own peril", and religious dogma to the contrary, I have never seen any evidence that "objectively forbidden places" exist, nor is there any indication that ethical principles taken from one specific ideology are actually built into the structure of this universe. "Trying to usurp the Maker's power will lead to punishment and that's what happened to the Magisters" is Chantry propaganda. If you aren't already predisposed to believe it, "The ancient Magisters were lured to the city by some unknown power (possibly an Old God) and triggered some detrimental magical effect which is/was part of the Black City or resided there for an as-yet unknown reason" seems like a much more plausible interpretation of events.

So the creation of the darkspawn was either an accident or the result of a triggered trap. The only element of truth in the Chantry's story appears to be that indeed the creation of the darkspawn appears to be tied to the Magisters entering the city in some way.

As it is, any one of my DA mage characters does most emphatically not believe in any forbidding and would've been at the head of the expedition to the city had they lived in the old Imperium - and if they survived, they would probably try to find out what happened and who lured them there under false pretenses and for which reason.

@The Wolf Man:
Awesome pics indeed! Fantastic!

Modifié par Ieldra2, 04 juin 2013 - 12:36 .

[Iakus]

 I'd be interested in learning more about the Golden/Black City, and in (eventually) discovering the truth behind the stories and claims about it.

Not so keen on a visit though.  The last time that happened it...didn't turn out well for the visitors.

Or for Thedas in general 

[Asdrubael Vect]

Ieldra2 wrote...

I don't believe the Black City was ever golden.
I don't believe the Maker has anything to do with it.
I don't believe that the ancient Magisters caused any "corruption" there.

All that is propaganda by the Chantry, and I would really hate any indication that we're meant to take it literally.

Other than that, I would like to know more about it. An NPC I don't recall says that "there is a connection between the Black City and the darkspawn". I would like that to be a explored in a future DA story.

1)It wasnt, magisters belive(Duman said that) that it was golden but they see that this city was black, dark and corupt

2)Andraste "Maker" is just some demon of fade(like desire demon) or just mage Andraste(who have a hard life) imagination/lie, NO ONE even heard abouit him before Andraste conquers and NO ONE exept Andraste and Archont Hessrian(after he personaly kill Andraste and later see her in fade) never see or heard him

3)as we know Archdemons are commanders of any Darkspawns so in any case it not make sense to blame those few Tevinter Magisters who was in Black City(even dwarfs with elves was never believed  that Magisters was sourse of Blight)


yes this is Orlais Chantry propoganda about "evil Tevinter Magisters who came in Black city by many of blood magic rituals and after created Blights" what was created by Orlais after 2 or 3 blight to start their Exalted Marshes and conquer lands

I put 100 gold coins that pass in the Black City is located somewhere in the Deep Roads (under destoyed Arlahtan or in the Sea of Ash) and Magisters found him with Dumat instructions and some dwarven help

so black city it was a underground jail for Dalish Forgotens or maybe it is a "corrupted ghost of Arlathan" in the Fade(Arlathan was destroyed by Ancient Tevinters army with dragons, demons and powerfull blood magic rituals)

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 04 juin 2013 - 01:40 .

[Dieb]

Oh, I really don't know. It's kind of like the mystery of the Reapers:

I love the concept of The Fade & The Black City. However, since what fascinates me actually are the things we don't know, it may be that a revelation will be a disappointment by default.

I remember standing there, pretty much like the first picture above, and just looking at it, thinking about what it represents. Our human senses are really limited in many ways, and everything in the fade just differs from Thedas in man's ability to perceive enough of it. I'm a sucker for "would-be philosophy", and the whole premise "it's always at the same point, same distance, the only constant" just wrecked my head. I also kept running up the stairs in Super Mario 64 before I had collected enough stars out of disbelieve, so the bear in mind that the bar is set pretty damn low here. But still.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

If its not Black and there is only half a dozen buildings, I will not be pleased.

[Iakus]

Ieldra2 wrote...

To clear things up about the post I made earlier:

Corypheus says the city "was supposed to be golden", implying that it wasn't when the ancient Magisters entered it. It also suggests that they didn't see the city from afar before they tried to enter it, and that nothing they did actually caused the city to turn black.

Also, there is really no reason to see the attempt to enter the city as a "transgression". Nobody actually told the Magisters "this is mine, enter at your own peril", and religious dogma to the contrary, I have never seen any evidence that "objectively forbidden places" exist, nor is there any indication that ethical principles taken from one specific ideology are actually built into the structure of this universe. "Trying to usurp the Maker's power will lead to punishment and that's what happened to the Magisters" is Chantry propaganda. If you aren't already predisposed to believe it, "The ancient Magisters were lured to the city by some unknown power (possibly an Old God) and triggered some detrimental magical effect which is/was part of the Black City or resided there for an as-yet unknown reason" seems like a much more plausible interpretation of events.

So the creation of the darkspawn was either an accident or the result of a triggered trap. The only element of truth in the Chantry's story appears to be that indeed the creation of the darkspawn appears to be tied to the Magisters entering the city in some way.

As it is, any one of my DA mage characters does most emphatically not believe in any forbidding and would've been at the head of the expedition to the city had they lived in the old Imperium - and if they survived, they would probably try to find out what happened and who lured them there under false pretenses and for which reason.

@The Wolf Man:
Awesome pics indeed! Fantastic!

My impression was always that the magisters created a gateway directly from Thedas to the Golden City.  Going to the Fade and traveling from there would have been an exercise in futility, as the Golden/Blackened City is equidistant from everything there.

Similarly, the "transgression" was not in stepping foot in the city as such, according to the Chantry, but the "sin" they brought into it.  The lust for power, the pride in thinking they could usurp the Maker, not to mention the blood on their hands from the blood magic (this ritual alone killed a hundred slaves) and other depredations of the Tevinter Imperium.

Now, yes, if Corypheus is correct (and he had no reason to lie) then the City was already blackened, the Chantry appears to be wrong in what happened to the Golden City.  My thought is there's something out there stalking the gods of Thedas,as an awful lot of them seem to have disappeared in the last few millenia

But I suspect the Chantry genuinely believes their version of events. 

[Nightdragon8]

The Wolf Man wrote...

Side note: when I played Skyrim's Dragonborn DLC and entered into the alternate dimensions via those black books (which are, by the way, incredibly inspired by Lovecraft - no bones about it) I thought that the Black City would be much like those terrifying alternate dimensions. Anyone ever play Dragonborn?

Yep I have imo kind of a cool looking place Been thinking of figuring out a way to make a house there =p (hoping someone makes a mod for it)  Loved the idea that the Dadria of fate/knowledge would have a ludicrous amount of books. (considering the walls where made out of books, and had Ghost libarian sort of things which make copies of themselves lol, I just got that joke)

Honestly I don't think DA:I should be the story to deal with the Black city... I mean if anything it should come alittle later in the franchise. I would think maybe 5 or 6, you know near the time they start to fully reviel Flemith's true plans.

I mean I think they should let a few hundered years go by before we see Flemith's motives to be nearly seen.

[azarhal]

iakus wrote...

Now, yes, if Corypheus is correct (and he had no reason to lie) then the City was already blackened, the Chantry appears to be wrong in what happened to the Golden City.  My thought is there's something out there stalking the gods of Thedas,as an awful lot of them seem to have disappeared in the last few millenia

Both the Tevinter and Elves believed that their gods lived in the Golden City. The Old Gods were punished and sent underground by the Maker (according to the Chantry). This is quite similar to the elven evil Forgotten gods being trapped underground by Fen'Harel.  It would be interesting to know the pre-Andrastian Tevinter version of
how the Old Gods ended up undergrounds as well.

In the end, it looks like a single event (big dragons being trapped underground) was converted into two legends that share a lots of similarities, but they are colored differently because of racial/religious point-of-views. In this case, I would say that the Chantry version is wrong, it seems the most recent variation of the legend. It still doesn't explain what trapped those big dragons underground nor why.

And I know I left out the Elven good gods, they don't seem to have a shared existence like the Old Gods/Forgotten Ones do. Or maybe they did in the past, but were forgotten/replaced by the Maker.

[Welsh Inferno]

I feel if they were to show the Black City it would probably be in the "final" dragon age game. Whenever that may be.

[Lobos1988]

I hope the Black City will just be some side quest... or maybe a DLC... I'm sorry but I just hate the ridiculous shade thing... if they change how it is done they're more than welcome to do a Black City main plot... but not with all that blurry boring weird stuff

[Ieldra]

iakus wrote...
Similarly, the "transgression" was not in stepping foot in the city as such, according to the Chantry, but the "sin" they brought into it.  The lust for power, the pride in thinking they could usurp the Maker, not to mention the blood on their hands from the blood magic (this ritual alone killed a hundred slaves) and other depredations of the Tevinter Imperium.

Doesn't change anything. I can see no reason why one particular ideology's notion of sin should be built into the way the Fade works. Morality is in our minds, not in the natural laws of the universe, and I can't believe Bioware would make Thedas different in that. It could be that people's collective beliefs influence the way the Fade works, but then, the religion of the Maker didn't exist when the ancient Magisters attempted to enter the city, so "usurping the Maker" didn't come into it.  

(BTW, I really hate this notion of physical "uglification" as a sign of moral corruption, for much the same reason. Morality is a construct of the human mind, there is no reason why this should have physical effects. I know it's a favorite trope in some circles, but Bioware should really think about the message they're sending by using this in almost every one of their games.)

Now, yes, if Corypheus is correct (and he had no reason to lie) then the City was already blackened, the Chantry appears to be wrong in what happened to the Golden City.  My thought is there's something out there stalking the gods of Thedas,as an awful lot of them seem to have disappeared in the last few millenia

That would mean this entity/faction/whatever has foreseen what would happen to the Old Gods as a result of the creation of the darkspawn. Very odd...

But I suspect the Chantry genuinely believes their version of events. 

Genuinely believing bullsh*t doesn't make it better. Also, I guess the higher echelons and scholars of the Chantry don't believe this literally, but see it as a parable. Not that they'd ever tell the common people that.

[Chiramu]

The Wolf Man wrote...

Chiramu wrote...

Maybe if we get to play as a Tevinter Magister at one point. If the Magisters could actually claim the city back and revert it back to the Golden City? What could you possibly do in a city in the Fade though? Would it turn into a Matrix-like scenario where you live and breath in the Fade while your real body deteriorates in the real world? It's hard to imagine what story element could lead us to step into the Black City, no Andrastian would want to step foot in it, only someone who is atheist would step foot there. There has been no evidence of them writing our character to be so against the Maker as to step foot in the Holy city.

. 

You could be an atheist but I don't see that being a requirement. Divine intervention (on some level) could send the PC off to the Black City. Like with a sloth demon - the PC does not have to be sent to the Fade willingly...

I guess that could work , I think part of my problem is that I had no idea how this could've been worked into the story XD.

[rapscallioness]

Lobos1988 wrote...

I hope the Black City will just be some side quest... or maybe a DLC... I'm sorry but I just hate the ridiculous shade thing... if they change how it is done they're more than welcome to do a Black City main plot... but not with all that blurry boring weird stuff

Well, I'm w/you on that. Lol! The Fade in DAO just abt drove me up the wall, and it wasn't interesting. The one in DA2, well....

I always felt like the Fade would be a great opportunity for the artist to flex their creative muscles. Anything could be possible.

But wow, if a journey to and/or thru the Black City looked like those images above...I would love to set out on that adventure.