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[Boycott Bioware]

The Wolf Man wrote...
That's too much time-wasting for a man who can simply invoke the rite of conscription....

Surely the right is useful for someone who is proven capable, not just to anyone...he wont invoke the right to a cook, isn't it? Unless the Grey Warden is in dire need of experienced cooks in the Deep Road

Modifié par Qistina, 05 juin 2013 - 07:17 .

[Jedi Master of Orion]

St. Victorious wrote...

Today while super bored at work I was actually mulling this over in my head. I started trying to connect dots to make up a sense of the Golden City mess.

First off, why are most of the Eluvian corrupted? There's no particular reason for them to bear the taint unless they have something to do with it's spread. My conjecture is that the Tevinter Imperium attacked Arlathan to get their hands on the Eluvian there. As we know, they're actually portals. So what if they led to the Golden City? Most magisters could only use them for communication, however Dumat gave Coryphues and Co. the secret to activating them and wham, Golden City bound. If the legend about Fen'Harel sealing the gods away has any truth I'd bet the he sent the magisters there to seek out a way free the Old Gods.

In the legend of Fen'Harel sealing away the Pantheon, it mentions them agreeing to abandon heaven for their truce. Well what if the Golden City isn't the seat of the Maker, but the heavens of the Elven Pantheon abandoned? The Elven people would walk among here before it's sealing. My belief is that it reflects the nature of those who walk the city. The benign Elven gods left the city golden. But when the corrupted magisters entered the city, it instantly turned black and their corruption was given form. The Eluvians connected still to the City projected the taint and the first blight began.

Possible? Maybe. A result of shear boredom? Absolutely.

Actually the legend of Fen'Harel was that the Creators were tricked to reatreat into the Heavans and Fen'Harel sealed them in. I've heard that the Black City is actually where the Dalish think their gods are trapped (according to the World of Thedas), but that's new information that doesn't make sense to me. The Chantry saw the Golden City as the Seat of the Maker but I didn't think the Dalish would have thought it was the heavan where  their gods dwelled too. Does that mean "The Abyss" where the Forgotten Ones were said to have been sealed also corrisponds to a known phyiscal place in the world?

[TK514]

The Wolf Man wrote...

St. Victorious wrote...

Today while super bored at work I was actually mulling this over in my head. I started trying to connect dots to make up a sense of the Golden City mess.

First off, why are most of the Eluvian corrupted? There's no particular reason for them to bear the taint unless they have something to do with it's spread. My conjecture is that the Tevinter Imperium attacked Arlathan to get their hands on the Eluvian there. As we know, they're actually portals. So what if they led to the Golden City? Most magisters could only use them for communication, however Dumat gave Coryphues and Co. the secret to activating them and wham, Golden City bound. If the legend about Fen'Harel sealing the gods away has any truth I'd bet the he sent the magisters there to seek out a way free the Old Gods.

In the legend of Fen'Harel sealing away the Pantheon, it mentions them agreeing to abandon heaven for their truce. Well what if the Golden City isn't the seat of the Maker, but the heavens of the Elven Pantheon abandoned? The Elven people would walk among here before it's sealing. My belief is that it reflects the nature of those who walk the city. The benign Elven gods left the city golden. But when the corrupted magisters entered the city, it instantly turned black and their corruption was given form. The Eluvians connected still to the City projected the taint and the first blight began.

Possible? Maybe. A result of shear boredom? Absolutely.

 

Yeah, the mirror is definitely a portal, the first one (in our gameplay experience) having been found in the Brecilian forest (i think? It was the same layout) by Merrill's people. Dark spawn were running around the forest after Tamlen messed with it, allowing something to break through. And Tamlen even said he could see a whole city as he stared at the mirror - it was like he was uncontrollably drawn to it. I wonder if the magisters had the same experience - maybe they didn't voluntarily visit the city but were uncontrollably drawn to it once they saw it. They might have seen it from afar (via some portal or another - maybe another mirror) and saw that it was Golden. 

I can't remember if Tamlen said it was golden or if he just says, "I can see a city!" Either way - he was dead set on heading for it, touching on the glass and everything.

But....what the HELL was that ruin? Who built it? Why was it there? Who abandoned the mirror there? Why were those men in the woods, by the way. Just three dudes, walking around, and they find some ruin? Were they really just passersby or was it all a setup to get someone to go into the ruin and find the mirror which led to the Black City.....?

I just assumed the Eluvian opened into Arlathan. 

The Tevinter Magisters caused the earth to swallow it up, it sank, the Darkspawn found it while digging out from the Deep Roads looking for the Archdemons, et voila.  Ancient Elven Capital and hub of the Eluvian Network becomes Darkspawn City.

Modifié par TK514, 07 juin 2013 - 01:51 .

[Jedi Master of Orion]

That was also my first guess. Although it is possible it was a link to the Black City.

[TK514]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

That was also my first guess. Although it is possible it was a link to the Black City.

Just seems an unnecessary stretch when we already have a city that we know the Eluvians connected to.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

True, but Morrigan seemed to be able to use one to travel beyond the Fade somewhere. And the Black City is not a normal part of the Fade that can be reached in ordinary circumstances. Tamlen also seemed to react like there was a sinister intelligence on the other end. Perhaps because he was infected from the very source of the taint.

[TK514]

I didn't mean to imply that they couldn't go anywhere else, just the the one Tamlen found probably went to Arlathan. Given what the Darkspawn do to the places they inhabit, and what the Magisters must have had to do to sink it, I would not be at all surprised if he felt something sinister from the place. I would imagine the Veil is very thin in whatever remains of Arlathan.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I did agree that it was the most likely answer, but I just meant that the Black City also wasn't an inconceivable possibility.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 07 juin 2013 - 03:04 .

[elfdwarf]

or archdemon was using eluvian to kidnap people and smuggle darkspawn in ferelden

[TK514]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

I did agree that it was the most likely answer, but I just meant that the Black City also wasn't an inconceivable possibility.

Then we agree to agree, on all counts.  Most agreeable.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Refreshing, isn't it? :blush:

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 07 juin 2013 - 04:29 .

[RepHope]

Going to the Black City would be cool but it'd definitely need to be a place that messed with your head, and by that I mean its architecture would definitely need a Lovecraftian feel.
If we ever went there I hope we could meet the Maker if he exists and get his opinion on things, see what his view on mages, Darkspawn, Templars, and wardens is. I hope if we do meet him that he isn't the cliche of "He's EVILLLL" and then we kill him with the conviently place Sword of Ultimate Killing that the maker couldn't be bothered to unmake for some reason. If we did fight we should fight him with words not weapons.
Does anyone know if there ARE any plans to EVER go to the Black City?

[Iron Star]

No writer on the DA-board have ever said or hinted that we'll ever go to the back city, so everything we're talking about in this thread is 100% speculation at this point.

It's still very interesting and worthwile to read, though.

[LobselVith8]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

True, but Morrigan seemed to be able to use one to travel beyond the Fade somewhere. And the Black City is not a normal part of the Fade that can be reached in ordinary circumstances. Tamlen also seemed to react like there was a sinister intelligence on the other end. Perhaps because he was infected from the very source of the taint.

Not that I think it's impossible, but Morrigan's words about going someplace "beyond this world and beyond the Fade" gave me the impression that it was somewhere new. Especially since Morrigan talked about getting power from this location, while I'm not sure what Morrigan could gain from the Black City except the corruption of the taint.

[azarhal]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

True, but Morrigan seemed to be able to use one to travel beyond the Fade somewhere. And the Black City is not a normal part of the Fade that can be reached in ordinary circumstances. Tamlen also seemed to react like there was a sinister intelligence on the other end. Perhaps because he was infected from the very source of the taint.

Not that I think it's impossible, but Morrigan's words about going someplace "beyond this world and beyond the Fade" gave me the impression that it was somewhere new. Especially since Morrigan talked about getting power from this location, while I'm not sure what Morrigan could gain from the Black City except the corruption of the taint.

I always found the use of "beyond the Fade" interesting, because the Elves call the Fade the Beyond. Considering she was using an elven tool, maybe the instruction just say "go to the Beyond" and Morrigan, in her ignorance, though it meant "beyond the Fade".

[NRieh]

will we venture to the black city? Or will the black city, in any way/shape/form be part of the game?

I certainly hope not. Some things are to stay unknown and mysterious. Look at the Reapers. I'd rather have them as something that "you will not comprehend", not as some lawn mowers with broken logic. If they allow PC to walk into Black City with the help of some last-minute-found-Artifact, press the magic button and turn the lights on - I'd be so pissed. Even if calling the Maker on the phone won't be involved.

There are so many poor examples of "explaining" the Mystery...

[Little Princess Peach]

maybe Bioware will make an expansion on it like Bethesda had done with the shivering Isle

[Reznore57]

If gods are not "gods " in DA , meaning they are a metaphor , or they were normal people which story got a little out of hand as years go by....

I think the golden city is a place elven dreamers created .
They were supposed to have lots of dreamers and really good one , so they may have dreamed a wonderful city for themselves.
I mean why not?
Then they created Eluvian to be able to enter the fade with their body , and for non mage.

I think somewhere along the way , humans got BFF with dragons.They may not have been super great mages but they tamed those ferocious beast.
Maybe the more powerful mages learn to shapeshift ,their warrior drank dragon blood and became super saiyan.

Anyway for some reason elven and human started a war ...Elves mastered the fade , they probably were great at driving humans bat**** crazy etc but in the end humans won .
Powerful elves were really really dangerous ( think about templar/mage) so it was bordeline elven genocide for "safety" reasons.

Of course some powerful elves survived (wouldn't be fun otherwise) and they wanted revenge.
So they started to whisper to humans , humans were a bit dumb as rocks and thought their dragons god started to talk to them.
Anyway the elves told about their golden city , and humans started to dream about it too.
Elven cursed their city , their city wasn't a dream anymore but a nightmare ...and they lured humans to set foot in it.

Then the blight ...

(It's probably full of plot holes , and I'm pretty sure there is a problem with the very nature of Thedas and magic ...I don't think the veil is natural...I'm pretty sure the elves were involved into something bad .
I don't know why but I don't buy the "but we were cute and happy and frolicking in the fade forever and then the MEAN humans killed us all "...
The truth is I wanna blame the elves because they always whine about how great perfect and peaceful they were .If they were so great and advanced how come they got crushed so easily?There is something very wrong here.)

[Jedi Master of Orion]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

True, but Morrigan seemed to be able to use one to travel beyond the Fade somewhere. And the Black City is not a normal part of the Fade that can be reached in ordinary circumstances. Tamlen also seemed to react like there was a sinister intelligence on the other end. Perhaps because he was infected from the very source of the taint.

Not that I think it's impossible, but Morrigan's words about going someplace "beyond this world and beyond the Fade" gave me the impression that it was somewhere new. Especially since Morrigan talked about getting power from this location, while I'm not sure what Morrigan could gain from the Black City except the corruption of the taint.

Well I actually didn't mean that Morrigan herself went to the Black City, only that the Eluvian could reach there. I had always figured they had more than one possible function depending on how they are used.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 07 juin 2013 - 06:48 .

[LazarusV2]

I don't know if anyone has considered it, but is there any chance that there are two cities? One golden and one black. I don't know accurately the lore like you guys, but if it possible, what if Maker knew what magisters and old gods planned and deliberately lured them into black city, which is corrupted and also works as a trap to release darkspawns like punishment for those, who try to step into golden city. 
I apologize for my bad English.

[stuboy52]

LazarusV2 wrote...

I don't know if anyone has considered it, but is there any chance that there are two cities? One golden and one black. I don't know accurately the lore like you guys, but if it possible, what if Maker knew what magisters and old gods planned and deliberately lured them into black city, which is corrupted and also works as a trap to release darkspawns like punishment for those, who try to step into golden city. 
I apologize for my bad English.

I suppose though there is no lore to suggest this but i think what most likely is that as the Legacy dlc suggests the golden city was never gold but always black and therefore the maker maybe a malevolent force, not benevolent as the chantry claims. (Maker or black city corrupted the magisters, not the other way around)

Ofcourse this is more speculation but i would like us to atleast understand the nature of the maker and the magisters more so we can better speculate the idea of the black city and what really happened. But never show us the truth but multiple possible truths which strengthens the story and lore in my mind.

[Tootles FTW]

You attract more flies with honey than vinegar; of course it appeared golden - something very much wanted to draw them over, in my opinion, and let itself out.

[PinkysPain]

The Wolf Man wrote...

 Lately one of the biggest questions I have about DA3 is...will we venture to the black city? Or will the black city, in any way/shape/form be part of the game?

I think this was the original planned direction when they did DA:O. Stop the blights and Darkspawn at their original source (and maybe strengthen the Veil while they're at it if you want a completely happy ending).

Somewhere after DA:O they got tired of remaking the same games over and over again and they decided to shift gears though (unfortunately not all change is good). The grand epic saving the world story line seems on the backburner for now, it's too gauche for the newly sophisticated Bioware.

Modifié par PinkysPain, 25 juin 2013 - 03:45 .