177 réponses à ce sujet

[Tarek]

it should be supernatural and epic (like some weird planet dream shred dark thing... thing)

and god should be sleeping in the middle of it having nightmares (the dark gods are his manifestations)

bah I played too much summoner

[Chala]

MisterJB wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

I don't believe the Black City was ever golden.

How could it not have been? We know for a fact the Magisters broke into it which suggests it was visible since before Tevinter. Thus, it follows that, at that point, it appeared golden or Corypheus and his ilk wouldn't have believed it to be. Corypheus specifically mentions that the city was "supposed to be golden."
If the City was golden or appeared to be until the Magisters actually entered it; and now everyone sees it as a dark city; it strongly suggests their invasion was the catalyst of some change, Maker-related or not.

I dunno, there some things in Legacy that support legends, but at the same time, it put them in question:
Like Dumat's statue, if it's a "dead" old god... Why it still has power? It could be a demon or Dumat himself, if it's the latter, then the whole "Archdemons are Old Gods that are destroyed forever once a GW kills them" it's not true.

Personally, I don't think the city was golden, the only person we know that has been around before the Blight was the Magister. And all what he said was "It was supposed to be golden", implying that it has always been black.

That made me think:
What if it was never Golden? If the Maker has never been there? What if it was a prison to hold the taint? And because of the Magisters' intervention the taint was spread all around Thedas?

Modifié par El_Chala_Legalizado, 25 juin 2013 - 05:25 .

[Ananka]

Don't think we'll go there (although I would love to), but I hope and expect that we'll get more lore about it. Especially with Corypheus still sneaking around. Legacy really got me interested in this part of the lore, I really want to learn more about the Black City and the magisters.

The city! It was supposed to be golden! It was supposed to be ours!

Modifié par Annaka, 25 juin 2013 - 05:57 .

[stuboy52]

Annaka wrote...

Don't think we'll go there (although I would love to), but I hope and expect that we'll get more lore about it. Especially with Corypheus still sneaking around. Legacy really got me interested in this part of the lore, I really want to learn more about the Black City and the magisters.

The city! It was supposed to be golden! It was supposed to be ours!

I would agree with this, i dont really want to see the city but more lore on the magisters and the maker would make the picture a bit clearer. Im inclined to believe corypheus as to him only moments seemed to pass from the entering the city and then being discovered by hawke.

[Bleachrude]

El_Chala_Legalizado wrote...


Personally, I don't think the city was golden, the only person we know that has been around before the Blight was the Magister. And all what he said was "It was supposed to be golden", implying that it has always been black.

This is incorrect.

There are records from Tevinter pre-blight that unequivocally mention the golden city in the fade. At least pre-blight, before the magisters entered it, mages that walked the fade could see a golden city in the distance.

[stonemyst]

Why does the term golden city/black city have to mean that. I would have thought the golden city ment it was a enlightenment a beacon of knowledge for all to see. What we see in the fade seems more like a prison than golden/black city.

[LobselVith8]

El_Chala_Legalizado wrote...

I dunno, there some things in Legacy that support legends, but at the same time, it put them in question:
Like Dumat's statue, if it's a "dead" old god... Why it still has power? It could be a demon or Dumat himself, if it's the latter, then the whole "Archdemons are Old Gods that are destroyed forever once a GW kills them" it's not true.

There's a lot we simply don't know, and some of Corypheus' dialogue does suggest that Dumat claimed many things, some of which we can infer from his dialogue (particularly when he questions why Dumat had forsaken them).

El_Chala_Legalizado wrote...

Personally, I don't think the city was golden, the only person we know that has been around before the Blight was the Magister. And all what he said was "It was supposed to be golden", implying that it has always been black.

That made me think:
What if it was never Golden? If the Maker has never been there? What if it was a prison to hold the taint? And because of the Magisters' intervention the taint was spread all around Thedas? 

It's hard to say what's real, and what is false, since it happened centuries prior to the events of Origins and Inquisition. It's also possible the Magisters may not have even been the first darkspawn, if the City was already Black when they arrived.

[BlueMagitek]

It sounds like the city appeared golden, but when they got to it irl, it was actually black.

[Wompoo]

The Wolf Man wrote...

And remember - if you've played Legacy - Corphyeus is still traipsing around...

good point as he implies that they were lied too and manipulated into going there.

I for one do not buy into the Golden/Black City rhetoric spewed out by the Chantry in DA... and feel as if there are far more levels of deceit and deception to DA's origins (Eleves aren't pure, Dwarves have had more of impact on the world then thought and humans are just latest meat puppets of the next grand celestial/fade power play).

Modifié par Wompoo, 26 juin 2013 - 01:25 .

[MadCat221]

I have this feeling that the final boss fight will happen in the Black City...

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

MadCat221 wrote...

I have this feeling that the final boss fight will happen in the Black City...

That would be really friggin cool tbh. 

[MadCat221]

SergeantSnookie wrote...

MadCat221 wrote...

I have this feeling that the final boss fight will happen in the Black City...

That would be really friggin cool tbh. 

I also have this theory... The Maker is the elven god Fen'Harel.

[Ieldra]

SergeantSnookie wrote...

MadCat221 wrote...
I have this feeling that the final boss fight will happen in the Black City...

That would be really friggin cool tbh. 

Definitely. We'd be going to solve one of the world's greatest mysteries. Hopefully. Actually, I'm not quite sure if it's a good idea for the future of the setting to solve this mystery, but it would be cool indeed.

[PinkysPain]

At this point the setting needs some excuse to "fix" the fade and the veil far more than it needs mystery ... the mage issue is boring and depressing, there is no solution, it just sucks and exploring the many ways in which it sucks got old fast. An expedition to the black city would be the perfect excuse to strengthen the veil and block demonic possession.

Modifié par PinkysPain, 26 juin 2013 - 10:32 .

[Eveangaline]

Maybe it was once gold from a distance, but but was black to those who stepped in, and now it's black from a distance and gold to those who step in.

[Ananka]

I would love to see a final battle in the Black City.

The theory I like to stick to with the Black city is that the city was gold on the outside, but black inside, and that the magisters were tricked by Dumat (for some reason). I view it as some sort of Pandora's box. The taint was confined to the city. Once the gates were opened, all kinds of nasty stuff came out and the outside became as tainted and rotted as the inside. And once the gates have been opened, you can't just go back to shoving the nasties back in and getting the city back to being gold.

[Eveangaline]

Annaka wrote...

I would love to see a final battle in the Black City.

The theory I like to stick to with the Black city is that the city was gold on the outside, but black inside, and that the magisters were tricked by Dumat (for some reason). I view it as some sort of Pandora's box. The taint was confined to the city. Once the gates were opened, all kinds of nasty stuff came out and the outside became as tainted and rotted as the inside. And once the gates have been opened, you can't just go back to shoving the nasties back in and getting the city back to being gold.

Ooh, the idea that the city was some sort of honeytrap. Appearing golden to lure in someone to release what was within.

[o Ventus]

I thought the implication from Corypehus' dialogue was that the "golden city" wasn't golden at all -- it was black when the magisters arrived there. The magisters were led there by Dumat (who lied and told them about the city being majestic and golden), but when they arrive, the city is blackened and it's some currently unknown entity (I would say Dumat, not the Maker) that transforms them into Darkspawn.

I actually prefer that to the "golden" city being real. Adds a much darker taste to Thedosian lore and shines some potentially negative light on the Chantry. I don't much think the Chantry's religious lore is true anyway, so that may just be my bias talking.

[Eveangaline]

o Ventus wrote...

I thought the implication from Corypehus' dialogue was that the "golden city" wasn't golden at all -- it was black when the magisters arrived there. The magisters were led there by Dumat (who lied and told them about the city being majestic and golden), but when they arrive, the city is blackened and it's some currently unknown entity (I would say Dumat, not the Maker) that transforms them into Darkspawn.

I actually prefer that to the "golden" city being real. Adds a much darker taste to Thedosian lore and shines some potentially negative light on the Chantry. I don't much think the Chantry's religious lore is true anyway, so that may just be my bias talking.

They could see the city before going though, right? The black city is visible in the fade no matter where you are.

[Ieldra]

o Ventus wrote...
I thought the implication from Corypehus' dialogue was that the "golden city" wasn't golden at all -- it was black when the magisters arrived there. The magisters were led there by Dumat (who lied and told them about the city being majestic and golden), but when they arrive, the city is blackened and it's some currently unknown entity (I would say Dumat, not the Maker) that transforms them into Darkspawn.

That's how I read it, indeed. The City was black when the magisters arrived, not "blackened as they walked the city" as the Chant says, and "it was supposed to be golden" suggests that either they were only told it was golden but never saw that for themselves, or that the City appeared golden from afar but it was an illusion, or that the City looked golden on the outside but black on the inside. In any case, it is a deception, and Dumat is likely the entity responsible.   

I actually prefer that to the "golden" city being real.

Yep, that would be my preference as well.

@Eveangaline
We can see the Black City from everywhere in the Fade, but was it always that way? The DAI trailer suggests that large-scale changes in the Fade might be possible.  Also, the magisters went into the Fade *physically* to enter the City, which means it's quite possible they never saw it from afar within the Fade but attempted to "teleport right in", so to speak.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 29 juin 2013 - 07:37 .

[azarhal]

stonemyst wrote...

Why does the term golden city/black city have to mean that. I would have thought the golden city ment it was a enlightenment a beacon of knowledge for all to see. What we see in the fade seems more like a prison than golden/black city.

There is something inside the City, Avernus's notes (Warden's Keep DLC) mention earing the most beautiful voice, even while awake, coming from it. Considering that what Avernus hear is the "Calling", we have a link between the Taint and the Black City.

I'm a fan of the "honeypot" theory personally:
1. make your prison look golden
2. find gullible idiots to come free you by promising power (whisper to them through their dreams)
3.???? (taint them?)
4. profit! (freedom)

Ieldra2 wrote...
We can see the Black City from everywhere in
the Fade, but was it always that way? The DAI trailer suggests that
large-scale changes in the Fade might be possible.  Also, the magisters
went into the Fade *physically* to enter the City, which means it's
quite possible they never saw it from afar within the Fade but attempted
to "teleport right in", so to speak.

The Black City is the only thing that never change in the Fade (well beside losing the Golden look). It always stand at equal distance from everything and can be seen from everywhere. Considering how the Fade is "made", it might be because the spirits and demons try to stay away from it.

World of Thedas also has lore bits which mention the "Golden city" pre-Fall of Arlathan, form both elves and humans. The catch is that both elves and humans consider the place related to their own gods before the fall of Arlathan. The elves even believe that their good gods were trapped in it by Fen'Harel (right before they lost Arlathan).

We might be facing a singular phenomenon that was interpreted differently by two cultures...and both can be extremely wrong.

[KiwiQuiche]

Basically the origins of the Golden City turn into a 'he said she said' argument with everyone saying something else but nothing for certain. All depends on your interpretation.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was the Maker just being a dick though.

[Herky]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Basically the origins of the Golden City turn into a 'he said she said' argument with everyone saying something else but nothing for certain. All depends on your interpretation.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was the Maker just being a dick though.

Classic Maker

[Sjpelke]

azarhal wrote...

stonemyst wrote...

Why does the term golden city/black city have to mean that. I would have thought the golden city ment it was a enlightenment a beacon of knowledge for all to see. What we see in the fade seems more like a prison than golden/black city.

There is something inside the City, Avernus's notes (Warden's Keep DLC) mention earing the most beautiful voice, even while awake, coming from it. Considering that what Avernus hear is the "Calling", we have a link between the Taint and the Black City.

I'm a fan of the "honeypot" theory personally:
1. make your prison look golden
2. find gullible idiots to come free you by promising power (whisper to them through their dreams)
3.???? (taint them?)
4. profit! (freedom)

Ieldra2 wrote...
We can see the Black City from everywhere in
the Fade, but was it always that way? The DAI trailer suggests that
large-scale changes in the Fade might be possible.  Also, the magisters
went into the Fade *physically* to enter the City, which means it's
quite possible they never saw it from afar within the Fade but attempted
to "teleport right in", so to speak.

The Black City is the only thing that never change in the Fade (well beside losing the Golden look). It always stand at equal distance from everything and can be seen from everywhere. Considering how the Fade is "made", it might be because the spirits and demons try to stay away from it.

World of Thedas also has lore bits which mention the "Golden city" pre-Fall of Arlathan, form both elves and humans. The catch is that both elves and humans consider the place related to their own gods before the fall of Arlathan. The elves even believe that their good gods were trapped in it by Fen'Harel (right before they lost Arlathan).

We might be facing a singular phenomenon that was interpreted differently by two cultures...and both can be extremely wrong.

There are a lot of simularities between the interpretations of the elves and the humans.

The only thing that is 'a fact' in Thedas regarding the fade is that all races (except dwarves) enter the fade in their dreams and mages can enter it while being 'awake' too with the use of lyrium.

Looking for an explanation for a phenomenon that occurs is what people tend to do.

The black city is viewable from every where in the fade and according to the stories never changing. Creatures living in the fade shape their world from what they 'steal' in environments from the thoughts/memories from the other side of the vail. The black city is a fixed thing in there as I view it. It cannot be changed by the creatures in the fade.

[Hellion Rex]

Dumat and the other Old Gods perhaps used an illusion of some kind to trick the Magisters into walking through the Golden City.